AD #1222 – Alfa’s U.S. Return Delayed, Qoros 3 Receives 5-Star Rating, 1,000 HP Genesis Coupe!

September 25th, 2013 at 11:53am

Runtime: 6:46

Fiat is delaying Alfa Romeo’s return to the U.S. once again. In a first for the Euro NCAP crash test program, a Chinese developed car received a 5-star overall crash rating. Hyundai will show off a 1000 horsepower version of the Genesis Coupe at this year’s SEMA show. All that and more, plus a look at Infiniti’s new steer-by-wire system in the Q50.

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Hello and welcome to a brand new Autoline Daily. I’m Jim Hall from 2953 Analytics filling in for John but now let’s move on to the day’s top stories.

Not surprisingly, Fiat is delaying Alfa Romeo’s return to the U.S. once again. Originally, CEO Sergio Marchionne said the brand would make its comeback in 2008 but he now says Alfa won’t make its way to U.S. dealerships until next spring. We’ll just have to wait and see about that. But with two cars in the pipeline for the U.S. and Canadian markets, the 4C mid engine coupe and the Mazda Miata-based Alfa Spider, they have to pull the trigger on Alfa within a year.

California is putting its money where its mouth is. Legislators in the Golden State just extended tax credits for electric vehicles through 2024. California plans to raise about $2 billion dollars by extending vehicle registration fees to help pay for the program. The bill will also set aside money to help develop 100 hydrogen fuel cell stations over the next decade. As you know California is aggressively trying to reduce CO2 emissions and smog by mandating EV sales. By 2025 the state wants zero emission or plug-in vehicles to account for 15% of car sales.

Hyundai will show off a souped up version of the Genesis Coupe at this year’s SEMA show in Las Vegas. The company teamed up with Bisimoto Engineering to create a 1,000 horsepower version of the car. Yes you heard me, 1000 horsepower. The SEMA bound Genesis Coupe is powered by Hyundai’s 3.8 liter V6 engine… with a few special modifications of course. In addition to the engine upgrades, the car also features chassis and interior modifications as well as a custom blue paint job and a carbon fiber hood and decklid. Isn’t all this Bugatti Veyron territory?

In a first for the Euro NCAP crash test program, a Chinese developed car received a 5-star overall crash rating. The bragging rights go to the Qoros 3 sedan, which is made by a 50/50 joint venture between Chery Automobile and the Israel Corporation. It received high scores in all four areas, which include adult occupant, child occupant, pedestrian and safety assist tests. And this is a significant step for the Chinese auto industry.

On Monday Autoline announced that its giving away this beautifully detailed die-cast model of the LeMans winning Audi R18 e-tron quattro. Autoline randomly chose the winner from its e-mail subscription list and so without further ado the lucky winner is Kevin Raketich from North Canton, Ohio. Congratulations Kevin. To sign up for the newsletter, just visit, and follow the link on the sidebar and you’ll get all of Autoline’s updates delivered straight to your inbox.

Coming up next, a look at Infiniti’s steer-by-wire system in the new Q50.

If you want to learn more about the Q50 and John’s impression of Infiniti’s steer-by-wire system, click the link in today’s show notes.

And just a reminder before I go. Make sure you tune into tomorrow’s episode of Autoline After Hours. John and Peter’s guest will be John Davis, the chief engineer of the Ford Fiesta ST and he’ll also be bringing one to the studio for the guys to check out. So tune in this Thursday at 6PM for some of the best insider discussion in the auto industry.

But that’s it for today’s show. Once again I’m Jim Hall from 2953 Analytics, thanks for watching and have a great day.

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72 Comments to “AD #1222 – Alfa’s U.S. Return Delayed, Qoros 3 Receives 5-Star Rating, 1,000 HP Genesis Coupe!”

  1. ColoradoKid Says:

    Alfa delayed again …… errr ….. Bahahahahahahaha … I mean really …. when’s the last time Marchionne ever lived up to a single promise made / deadline announced / or contract signed …. Yet another round of Marchionne’s Madness .. or SSDD if you prefer

    My guess ( take note detractors …. this is a g-u-e-s-s .. not a prediction ) Hell will freeze over and Marchionne will become transparent sooner than we’ll ever see an Alfa for sale on our shores again .

    But in truth … does anyone really want a rebadged KTM X-Bow at C7 prices or an over priced Mazda Miata with an Alfa cloverleaf on its snout ? If so .. considering the options available these days … I can’t for the life of me figure out why ( this from a former Alfisti )


    California extending EV credits – Good … now those pretentious piles of technological dinosaur crap EV’s can all sell there .. and give the California , AAA , Tow Truck Drivers and Repair Techs a healthy boost in the wallet ;-)

  2. Mike Says:

    Really, that the Chinese are coming, in terms of automotive manufacture, should not be any surprise. They will follow the path of the Koreans and the Japanese. They will get their safety and durability numbers. The real question is whether the Big three can find a way to stay in the business and compete. Yesterday at the dealership, there was a Festiva with a sticker that said “US NA content: 20%”

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    At least the steer by wire will be optional, not standard on the, ugh, Q50.

    Actually, anyone who thinks they might want a Q50 should check out the G37 before it’s too late. It is about the same car, but for a lot less money.

  4. HtG Says:


    Now that’s interesting. Israel Corporation is working with Chery. According to their website, Israel Corp invests in high potential companies with the intent of selling worldwide. Look out.
    what’s all this doubting Alfa? I see journalists driving the 4C at some company event, but it’s a not a gonna come to America. But why? I’m seeing to much winking.

    choosing between the Miata or the Alfa spider. Boy there’s a real Sophie’s Choice.

  5. T. Bejma Says:

    My old GM boss went to work at Qoros a few months ago. Lots of expats over there that used to work for various OEM’s from BMW to Chrysler. Combine the OEM Engineering with the cheap Chinese labor and it won’t be long until their cars are as common as Korean or Japanese.

  6. C-Tech Says:

    For the Q50, if your front tires are out of balance, is that sensation filtered out by the electronics? If so, then you are prematurely wearing out a tire?

  7. grb Says:

    “by extending vehicle registration fees”, that’s a different way of saying increasing registration fees.

  8. kevin m Says:


  9. Steve Weintraub Says:

    Call me old fashioned but I don’t trust the drive by wire from Infiniti! What if the mechanical back up doesn’t work? And why do they need back up if the system itself is supposed to work? There is just too much useless technology rammed at us! I love driving~~~~But keep it simple!!

  10. ColoradoKid Says:

    #3 – you got that right Q50 vs G37.. grab a G37 if thats your want while they’re ( still ) hot


    The blatant Irony of CA’s EV Obsession

    Kind of funny when one thinks about CA’s EV Credits etc in light of the fact that CA has virtually no Electric Grid infra structure ( preferring the ” Not in My Backyard ” purchasing electricity from other states ) Can barely afford its Water Bills ( to again .. other states ) .. has basically very little and in most places no charging facilities .. and in fact is still to date on the financial skids ( if you take away all the government subsidies )

    LaLa Land seems a bit of an understatement when it comes to describing California .


    HtG – re; Alfa’s ( non) Return to the US …. I’s a bit confused good sir . So wheres the confusion ? Oh ….. don’t tell me you were actually falling for all that media Hype & Hyperbole Marchionne’s been spewing out for the last week or so

    Lets face a few facts HtG .. et al … when it comes to the media .. any media these days ;

    1) They’re all to a number desperate for the ‘ story ‘ even if there isn’t one
    2) If there’s no story to be found … they’ll create one
    3) You … the reader/subscriber are not the customer . You … are the commodity that the Media is selling to their advertisers
    4) Therefore any and all product related media’s reviews articles etc are in fact either ; A ) Created B) Approved C) Edited .. or D) Censored by the manufactures

    Which is to say …. trust not what ye read … but rather what ye see as evidence on the ground .. cause till then …. its anybodies guess WTF is true or not these days

    BTW … speaking of the media … read the most recent on the NJ F1 ? According to NBCSN … they’ve put in the applications and paid the fees … according to everyone else …. who the ___ really knows ?

    Alonso’s Pro Bike Racing team FYI ? Down the tubes just like every other time S’Lonso’s given notice he was about to create a new bike racing team … only this time he’s screwed his own countrymen with his waffling …. So much for my having to learn to like S’Lonso …

  11. ColoradoKid Says:

    8 – Oh dear . No Kevin M … unfortunately until either Marchionne is made redundant … Alfa is sold to VW …. or a miracle come down from Rome itself occurs …. this ongoing Alfa Romeo saab ( sob ) story is destined to remain with us … for a very very long time

    btw- VW …. hint hint …. alls I can say about that …. hint hint .. wink wink… but there is more here than meets the eye … hint hint ;-)

  12. ColoradoKid Says:

    #9 – Amen – +1 x10,000 to the power of 10 – hear hear – and preach it brother … cause I for one am on board 150,000 %

  13. ColoradoKid Says:

    BTW HtG .. ol Sophie ___ well better be choosing the Mazda .. if not the ol girl’s losing it I’m afraid :o

  14. HtG Says:

    11 AlfaWagen. So this is why the Fiat franchises had to be built stand alone? And Marchionne wants to show off his pipeline to Winterkorn? So simple, really. (disclosure; I have no idea what I’m talking about)

  15. HtG Says:

    13 come on, Jim Hall. Tell us something about the next Miata. We know you know.

    We’ve got Pinkman.

  16. MJB Says:


    The very presence of a mechanical back-up system is not reason to fret. All sorts of things have back-up system that we don’t even think about.

    For instance, the very first application of an exterior butt-glazed window system was installed on a multi-story office building in Downtown Detroit back in the 80s. Because nothing like this architectural glazing system had ever been used anywhere in the U.S. prior to this, building officials insisted that a “back-up” system of physical fasteners be affixed to each pane of glass, just in case of failure of the epoxy in the system. Even 25 years later, the system never failed. And the architects knew it wouldn’t because of scores upon scores of tests that were performed on it prior to installation.

    Now frameless, butt-glazed glass is used on high-rises and office buildings everywhere.

    So all I’m saying is I trust that the guys at Nissan have done their due diligence and run every possible failure scenario on this steer-by-wire. I’d trust it.

    Plus, don’t forget, airplanes have been steering by wire for a long time themselves.

  17. aliisdad Says:

    I don’t get too excited about Alfa’s announcements about returning to the US anymore; however, I would sure like to see it happen.. My concern is that those who remember and love Alfas are moving on, and they will have to start more or less as a “new” brand in the US without much of a remaining base of buyers who even remember them…The same is true of FIAT.. If they are really going to get serious about FIAT, they need to get some more models and quickly!! Also, they need to decide what is what for each brand and not get too caught up in “badge engineering” IMO…
    It seems that Chrysler-FIAT needs to get a marketing and branding plan that they can follow, and soon!! They have some really desirable cars, but we would like to see them here, and know that there is a commitment to support them..
    By the way, does anyone know what ever happened to Laura Sauve (sp?).. Of course, I don’t know what kind of manager she was at FIAT, but I thought she really was a good promoter of the brand and represented it very well at owner and product info events… She came to some FIAT club things and attempted to “rally” the faithful which seemed like a good idea to me..

  18. ColoradoKid Says:

    MJB- 16 – No good sir … fact is ALL uses of DriveByWire in any transportation are mandated to have at least one backup system ( the aero industry mandates many .. Kit can probably give the exact number ) ..


    Much like your laptop / smartphone / smartpad etc …. ALL DriveByWires have a propensity to ……

    FAIL ! … fairly often I might add …. as is any computerized device’s want . Hence …. mandatory backups system(s)

  19. pedro fernandez Says:

    I can understand electric power steering,(if it’s done right) and even electric A/C to take a load off the engine, but electric steering by wire?? it’s almost as stupid as autonomous cars and just as dangerous.

  20. ColoradoKid Says:

    17 – Allisdad – Mz Sauve .. Yes … in fact I’ve had personal contact with Mz Suave ( I was brought in as a consultant for several very successful events and marketing strategies before she was ousted ) At present she still owns a string of dealerships nationwide ( including my former Mercedes Benz dealership before we moved ) is continuing on with her high level of service etc ethics within the dealerships she owns ( I can highly recommend KCMO and KCKS Mercedes to anyone living in the area ) … and as far as I know is doing quite well despite Marchionne stabbing her in the back … figuratively speaking that is

  21. G.A.Branigan Says:

    And like we have talked about…..many times here,the more they take away driver connect,the more the system(s) can and most likely will be hacked.

  22. MJB Says:


    Well, of course, CK. But my point is that just the very presence of a ‘back-up’ system shouldn’t scare people away from this application. I’m all for back-up systems, because I know there are times when they are needed.

    In fact, now that you mention the regulated requirement placed upon aircraft mfrs to install backup system to their fly-by-wire systems, I believe we have the answer one commenter was after when he asked why it has a backup system in the first place – I’m sure it was mandated for the same reason the physical fasteners were mandated on the butt-glazed window system I mentioned.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    There will probably be few failures of Nissan’s steer by wire that will cause crashes, but still, what’s the point?

    With airplanes, you have huge control surfaces to move, and it’s just a lot easier to operate them completely by servo. I don’t know the amount of redundancy of the systems, but it seems to be enough. Of course, cars are built to a price much more than airplanes.

  24. pedro fernandez Says:

    #23 Don’t you think that this steering by wire is a must for autonomous cars as well? This could explain why it’s even being introduced, I would love to go to an Infinity dealer with the pretense of buying one of these cars and then when they tell me about the system, I freak out and walk away.

  25. pedro fernandez Says:

    Imagine how much it would cost to fix this electric steering crap, reminds of the Lincoln air suspension system that once it failed, most owners never bothered to fix due to the fact that it would cost more than the car was worth, I suppose with this thing, once it fails, the owners would just start using the “redundant direct link.

  26. MJB Says:

    @24 – Disco!

    I’m sure autonomous cars will live and die by this feature.

    Heck, perhaps Infiniti broke ground with this with the ulterior motive of making a killing off of licensing the tech to the rest of the autonomous car industry…

  27. MJB Says:

    @25 – yep. I’ve seen my fare share of Mark 8′s and Continentals literally bouncing their way down streets and freeways due to shot air suspension that owners couldn’t afford to fix.

  28. HtG Says:

    Off Topic

    For anyone reading the Financial Crimes News, you have my encouragement to hop on the sled to snokkerville. All abooooaaaard

  29. T. Bejma Says:

    Reviewing the warranty data over the last 20 years that I have access to, there is no evidence that drive by wire systems on GM vehicles fail any more than cable operated systems. In fact, like all of GM’s warranty information, it all has been on a downward trend.

    The ability to easily incorporate traction and stability control into the drive by wire systems makes them much safer than the cable systems. Also am curious as to what backup systems, besides maybe software that are on these drive by wire vehicles. When I look at the last 2 DBW cars I have, the only thing the throttle is connected to is a black box. Same with the throttle body.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Yep, SBW would be needed for autonomous cars. Maybe the Infinity dealers will advertise the cars as “autonomous ready,” like TV’s were once advertised as HD ready.

  31. pedro fernandez Says:

    I’d much rather prefer the DBW system fail than the SBW one, at least you don’t lose steering control with a DBW also don’t like the electronically activated E brake system that some high end cars (BMW) is using, if you have to use it and push the button, does the car come to a screeching halt or what?

  32. HtG Says:

    Do you ever get the feeling, Pedro, that we two are like Butch and Sundance?

  33. pedro fernandez Says:

    yes, sir, I just want something reliable to take me where I need to go in reasonable comfort and safety w/o spending a lot of money for gas I don’t want electronic anything that will eventually break down or in the case of my sister’s car, the hatch won’t even open anymore and its only a 3 yr old vehicle, and now the driver’s door is doing the same thing, but that one can be opened manually. Basically I don’t need any electric motor to do what I can do with my own arms, hands, feet.

  34. HtG Says:

    That’s how I bought the Civic. No toys to break. I knew I’d likely keep the car for at least a decade, and I don’t get into the extras. Previous cars had ‘stuff’ and guess what? It breaks! (I do, however, like my aftermarket radio that has a line-in for my ipod.)

  35. T. Bejma Says:


    I have a ’69 Cutlass convertible with a fresh Oldsmobile 350 Engine, roll up windows, no computer and even the radio is analog. That would be perfect for you ;-) Except the mileage part… 15 mpg is probably a little low for you.

  36. pedro fernandez Says:

    TB no 8 track? yeah, 15 mpg would indeed put me in the poor house even deeper, I’d take a Nova from the 70′s however!

  37. pedro fernandez Says:

    I love them aftermarket car radios with a remote control!! talk about redundant bull$hit, what you mean you cannot stretch your arms to reach the radio controls?

  38. HtG Says:

    37 I got the remote, Pedro! Guess where I keep it? In the box, in the house. Good Lord

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I have to use one of the cassette shaped things with a wire coming out to play an iPod in my VW or van. Remember those? Did they ever make similar cartridges to play a Diskman through at 8 track player?

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Talk about technology, has anyone else been watching any of the America’s Cup racing? Oracle just completed the comeback of the millennium, and won it.

    It’s kind of silly spending a billion dollars or so on something as useless, but it was fun to watch, both the competition, and those boats hydrofoiling, and going three times the wind speed.

  41. HtG Says:

    40 guilty. I can hardly believe it.

  42. HtG Says:

    How’d Oracle get that speed all of a sudden? And can you believe the wind died the other day, saving them.

    Oh yeah, Off Topic

  43. pedro fernandez Says:

    Hey guys, I just thought of something, my son has never ever heard anything from the Toyota/Scion dealer he bought his car from last year. No survey forms, no phone calls, no service coupons Nothing! as if he had never bought a car there, isn’t that not the norm nowadays? How do they expect repeat business with that kind of attitude?

  44. pedro fernandez Says:

    kit I used to have the CD player with the cassette attachment thingy to insert into the radio cassette slot, it would jump and skip all over the place and it sounded horrible, you could hear the noise of the cassette motor turning the piece through the speakers.

  45. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’m wondering the same thing about how they got the speed. I suspect there were some people in the skunk works somewhere, figuring things out, and they were able to implement some small changes that made a huge difference.

    I feel sorry for the Kiwi team. How could they not be terribly disappointed, being that far ahead, and losing race after race like that. Worse, there was nothing they could do about it. They weren’t making mistakes. They were just getting beat by pure boat speed.

  46. HtG Says:

    With the Miata, I used the cassette adapter since I didn’t want to remove the original unit(worked fine). It’s says something about the crowd that drives the old cars, but those guys will pay something like $150-200 for OEM units. Purists, they aren’t the ones customizing their little baby.

  47. HtG Says:

    45 Hard to believe that questions won’t be asked, especially after Oracle had that prior penalty for illegal weighting.

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    An iPod doesn’t seem to have as much output as the CD player I had, but the cassette thingy works with it. I hear a little motor noise, but not in the speakers, just directly from the player mechanics.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Yeah, I bet someone will be looking over that boat carefully for compliance with the rules, or at least they should be.

    Maybe there aren’t any rules, though, except for a few dimensions, and a prohibition of using auxiliary power for forward thrust. I don’t know much about the rules, though.

  50. ColoradoKid Says:

    Leasing now accounts for 25% of al new car ‘ sales ‘

    I’ve got a real bad feeling about this one in light of the fact that economically … less than 10% of the car buying public should even be considering leasing … never mind being approved to do so ..

    Hmmmn …. nope … what with sub prime auto loans , auto loans in excess of 48 months … excessive incentives to get cars off the lots etc …… I got a really bad feeling ’bout this in each and every way . Potemkin Village may of just gotten a little more ‘ Potemkin ‘ … if you catch my meaning .. than I initially thought


    Oracle – What they accomplished was in fact the single largest Sports Snow Job as well as a pant load of BS since Lance Armstrong’s chemically induced domination of Cycling . Suffice it to say … Technology ‘ had nothing to do with that so called ‘ miraculous ‘ comeback . I’ll say no more lest I get the site in trouble … but ….. do the math ….. ’nuff ‘ said

    Rule # 1 – When it seems too good to be true …. it usually isn’t … true that is ;-)

  51. HtG Says:

    50 COME ON, CK!!! SPILL IT. No one’s listening.

  52. ColoradoKid Says:

    49 – Haven’t quite sussed that out yet Kit ? Here’s what the ‘ rules ‘ were/are . The ‘ rules ‘ were and have been what ever Larry Eilison says are the rules are ever since the little ____ bought the Americas Cup in court … because the pathetic little tech weenie sore loser couldn’t win it on the race course ..

    Again … I may of said too much … se la vie … but thats all for that ……

  53. pedro fernandez Says:

    Re leasing: we’re back to “let’s live for the moment” never mind what the future may hold, besides when it comes to BMW, leasing was made for the brand, you don’t want to keep it after 3 yrs anyways, even less so now with all the plastic water pumps and electric everything that now permeates their models.

  54. ColoradoKid Says:

    51 – You’s a pretty smart fella … I’m guessing you can work the essential details out on your own ;-)

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    So are you saying the Oracle were sandbagging in those early races?

  56. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The rules are always what the defender comes up with, but all of the boats are built to the same rules.

    There are officials involved, which is how Oracle got the 2 point penalty. Larry Ellison didn’t assign that to himself.

  57. HtG Says:

    some commenters at BusinessInsider(dive bar) are claiming that Oracle was using computerized trimming for the sails. Not reliable, but then I don’t know anything either.

    hey, “stability control” sound familiar?

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d think computer control of some sort would be a necessity for the hydrofoils, and would certainly be useful for trimming sails. It looked like the actual winches on the boats were manual, but the grinders may be looking at some computer screens or something.

  59. HtG Says:

    ComputerWorld had this article on computers for the Oracle boat. It seems like that was a legit part of the contest.

  60. HtG Says:

    This is truly a new age.

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Thanks for the link.

  62. Kit Gerhart Says:

    As that article said, everyone would have had similar technology. Otherwise, the two boats wouldn’t have been nearly as close in performance.

  63. HtG Says:

    Apparently, the Oracle boat went into the shed for some changes after it fell behind. I’ve also looked at some of the Kiwi papers, and they’re all class, not questioning Oracle’s victory.

  64. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I hope we find what they did in the shed. It may be partly software, but probably more than that. Do they have a machine shop, and a setup for fabricating carbon fiber composite parts in that shed?

  65. ColoradoKid Says:

    63 – They’re not questioning it because … they CAN’T question it … I’ll say no more other than … do the math … read the history since last Alinghi handed Ellison his head on the race course …. and look at the details … its all there for the asking … problem being most folks aren’t .. asking that is . More often than not because again ….. they cannot ;-)


    What the ………… ?

    How the …………. ?

    Huh ???

  66. ColoradoKid Says:

    64 – Its Oracles home base …. they could of manufactured a complete new boat with the resources they have available there …

  67. ColoradoKid Says:

    62 – BTW Kit .. for the first eight races … things weren’t close at all . Fact is … the Rules is what Ellison says the rules is .. his having vastly over extended the privileges of the Defender after ‘ stealing ‘ the Cup in court ( according to the pre LE America’s Cup rules … back when there were rules ) to the point of making Bernie Ecclestone’s running of F1 look like pure egalitarianism in comparison

    I’ll say one more thing … because if I go on much more I’ll either get ALD into trouble or risk blowing my emotional top

    Mr Ellison ( or however the little asp spells his name ) has taken what once was the most elegant and gentlemanly aspect of sailing imaginable … and morphed it into the NASCAR WWC of the sporting world in five years or less .

    Fact is we ( US ) should be putting people like him in jail rather than singing his praises .

    I’d always wondered why back in the day Steve Jobs even at the bottom of his career refused to accept even a solitary dime from Ellison ( but gladly took help from Ross Perot ) when LE offered it . Steve’s only explanation ever being ” I don’t want to owe Larry anything ”

    After the Alinghi/America’s cup debacle …now I completely understand why ;-)

    Basta !

  68. HtG Says:

    Ellison is a true predator. Woe unto the home owner he casts his gimlet eye upon.

  69. Kit Gerhart Says:

    CK, I’m not a Larry Ellison fan, but in a few days, a few people found ways to make the boat go faster. It may have been Ellison’s money that funded it, but it was a group of very good, very dedicated people from around the world that made it happen.

    The people on both boats were the best of the best at something that few people do at this level. The people behind the scenes are the very best at what they do, pointless as it may be in the scheme of things.

    Yeah, I didn’t like the legal stuff that happened in 2010, and it would have been better if the challenger series had been more competitive, but I found both the boats, and the competition to be fascinationg.

    Since you seem to like Ellison as much as you like Sergio M.,, everything GM, etc., you probably don’t see it that way.

  70. pedro fernandez Says:

    Hey maybe they had a team of trained dolphins or seals pulling the boat along.

  71. HtG Says:

    Seals, definitely seals.

  72. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Or maybe whales…