AD #1228 – EV & Plug-in Sales Plummet, Audi Readies Q1 Crossover, Winnebago Goes Pro

October 3rd, 2013 at 11:38am

Runtime: 7:23

Electric vehicle and plug-in sales take a surprising tumble in September. Audi moves forward with plans for another crossover. Winnebago upfits the new Ram ProMaster into two different RV models. All that and more, plus Jim Hall is back with an all-new lesson in design terminology: Bone Line.

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Hello and welcome to Autoline Daily. Coming up later in the show we have another installment of Design Handbook with Jim Hall, but now the news.

EV, PLUG-IN SALES PLUMMET
Say, what happened to sales of EVs and plug-ins in the American market last month? After growing strong all year, they plummeted in September, down over 27 percent based on Ward’s numbers. And it involved all the major players. Sales of the Volt dropped 47 percent, the Prius plug-in fell 35 percent, The Tesla S was down 20 percent and the Leaf 19 percent. Maybe strong sales in August pulled sales out of September, but this is an unexpected and significant drop. For the year, sales of EVs and plug-ins are up 48 percent, but they only account for 0.7 percent of the market.

ONE RED-HOT TESLA
Speaking of the Tesla S, one of them caught fire yesterday after being involved in an accident. But even though the fire was caused by an accident, it was enough to spook investors, who drove down Tesla’s stock price by 6 percent, its biggest one-day drop. It may have also been hurt by a downgrade of the stock by one analyst at the Robert W. Baird company. Even so, at one point the stock was down 9 percent, but recovered some of that by the end of the trading day.

VIPER SALES DISAPPOINTING
The Detroit Free Press reports that Chrysler is going to reduce production of the SRT Viper and reassign some of the employees from the assembly plant where it is made to other plants in the company. When the new Viper debuted, Chrysler hoped to sell 2,000 a year. But so far this year it has only sold 426. That compares to 7,800 Corvettes and even 600 Audi R8s, just to give you an idea of the scale. I think one reason for the slow sales could be the price. The last generation Viper started at $83,000. The new one starts at $100,000. Maybe that was just too big of a price jump for a lot of buyers.

YEP, ANOTHER CROSSOVER
We’re getting some reports out of Germany that Audi is going to move forward with production of its Q1 crossover. It shares a platform with the company’s own A1 and Volkswagen’s Polo and would slide in-line behind the Q3. The crossover could end up looking more like the handsome Crosslane Coupe Concept Audi showed off at last year’s Paris show, because it was said to show the design language of a future generation of Q models. We especially like the treatment on the headlights and hope that makes it into production. Look for the Q1 to arrive sometime in 2016.

WINNEBAGO UPFITS PROMASTER
We only recently got our chance to check out Ram’s ProMaster commercial van but one company has already completed upfitting the vehicle. Famous RV supplier Winnebago has actually converted the van into two different versions, called the Trend and Travato. The Travato is a smaller Class B motor-home that measures just under 21 feet and has amenities like a double bed, full bath, kitchen and dinette, while the Trend is a larger Class C motor-home that comes in at 24 feet long and comes in two different floor plans. They are powered by Chrysler’s 3.6 liter Pentastar V6, but wouldn’t it make more sense to come with the already available diesel engine? We sure think so.

Up next, Jim Hall takes us back into the world of automotive design terminology. And this time, he has a lesson that’s sure to stick to your ribs. Design Handbook gets into the anatomy of Bone Lines after this.

When you consider character lines on a car, you may be thinking of creased sheet metal — the sort of line you might draw with the single stroke of a pen when sketching on paper. But, as Jim Hall explains in the latest edition of Design Handbook, a vehicle’s “bone line” is more substantial than that. Here’s Jim.

(The Design Handbook segment on Bone Line is only available in the video version of today’s program.)

Do you have a curious design term rattling around in that skull of yours? Well, send Jim an e-mail at viewermail@autoline.tv. And, be sure to check out the entire Design Handbook series on our website, Autoline.tv, or by looking for “Autoline Network” on YouTube.

Don’t forget to join us for Autoline After Hours tonight when our guest will be David Leone, the head of all performance luxury vehicles at General Motors. Please get any questions or comments to us that you might want to pose to Dave. Send them to viewermail@Autoline.tv And a programming note for those of you who watch our shows at a later time, our server will be down Friday night through Saturday morning. But then we’ll be back online.

And that wraps up today’s report. Thanks for watching.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

72 Comments to “AD #1228 – EV & Plug-in Sales Plummet, Audi Readies Q1 Crossover, Winnebago Goes Pro”

  1. ColoradoKid Says:

    EV sales plummet – The reason ? – Common sense and reality finally coming to the fore perhaps ?

    ———-

    TESLA CarBQ ? That was no accident . That was caused by running over a bit of road debris . Not an uncommon event when it comes to driving a car these days

    ———–

    NY’s ‘Mean Streets ‘ .. just got a heck of a lot ‘meaner ‘

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/are-new-york-biker-gangs-above-the-law/

    Even better .. now NY’s refusing to prosecute !

    So whats up with that HtG ? Jeeze … and I thought Colorado’s new marijuana laws were nuts … but at least we don’t let 1% bikers get away with major assault and battery

    ——–

    Q1 – I’m tellin y’all … compact luxury Xovers are the sales wave of the future …. across the entire car buying globe .

    The funny thing being JEEP the other day saying they weren’t sure they’d be entering the segment as they were not sure it was a profitable segment to be in .

    So …those JEEP folks got their heads stuck in the sand or what ?

  2. ColoradoKid Says:

    C7 Design

    Aha ! Now … it all makes perfect sense ;

    http://jalopnik.com/the-guy-in-charge-of-the-c7-corvettes-design-made-the-1440352459

    :-)

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Sales of plug-in cars are down, because gas prices are (temporarily) going down. One month does not predict a long term trend. Where I am in Indiana, gas is the cheapest it’s been in more than a year.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    #1,
    That’s kind of scary about the biker gangs getting away with such stuff. I suppose the cops, understandably, are afraid of them.

  5. pedro fernandez Says:

    CK are you saying that this guy saw a crushed Aztek at the salvage yard and that’s how he got the inspiration?

  6. Ed Says:

    The tesla car that caught fire, one of the troopers at the scene stated that they did not find anything that the car could have run over, i am sure musk is scouring the area to find it, until then it just ” caught fire”. Also the video is buried in YouTube , can’t be messing with an advertiser. Also since there were no injuries there will be no investigation released to the public.

  7. HtG Says:

    1 Bikers in NYC vs. Credit Suisse comfytard

    watch the video at this link, CK. Those aren’t Hells Angels, and they’re just holding traffic up so they can have a stretch of fun. Those TTAC neck biters are distorting the story pretty badly. I think the banktard panicked when surrounded by normals.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont-charge-bike-assault-thug-in-suv-beating/

  8. pedro fernandez Says:

    Oh, really?? let everyone who has a special vehicle like Ferrari or Lambo or McLaren do the same so they also enjoy their expensive, fast wheels and no one gets in their way! How about an M3 and M5 club that closes the West Side hwy on Sunday morning so they can let their machines do triple digit speeds w/o any consequences.

  9. HtG Says:

    people in hot cars definitely abuse the road rules. You know that from living in this area, Pedro. One has to relax. That particular stretch of the West Side Highway is especially conducive to going balls out, as it’s very flat. That guy in the RR was too slow pick up what was happening around him. I know brake checks, and that didn’t look like it.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The motorcycle “gang” wasn’t what I originally envisioned, Hell’s Angels types on Harleys, but it would seem that there was a bit of anarchy involved in what they were doing.

    Still, it appears that the Range Rover guy brought on some of the difficulty. Maybe it’s because I ride motorcycles, albeit sanely, and mostly alone or with small groups, but if I saw a large group of bikes on the road, while in a 4 wheeled vehicle, I’d just try to get out of their way, and go “with the flow” in the right lane.

  11. ColoradoKid Says:

    6 – Aha ! Wanna be bad boys on bikes misbehaving . Still … and regardless .. since when doe the law not hand you your head for beating a man senseless .. especially in front of his wife and kids ?

    BTW … in my experience its usually the wanna be’s desperate to prove they’re the ‘ Really ares ‘ that are the worst to deal with .

    ———

    Pedro – The designer of the Aztec led the C7 design team … therefore … take one ( elegant and classy ) C6 … let the designer of the Aztec loose on it .. and voila ! Pre adolescent over designed Ferrari/Lamborghini wanna be with more than a hint of the Aztec’s OTT vulgar influence on it

  12. pedro fernandez Says:

    Kit I have had a couple of times when I had my arms resting on the door sill as I waited for a red light only to have some freaking biker squeeze in between me and the car to my left,at a high rate of speed coming very close to hitting my elbow with his handlebar, I’ve had the urge to run him down after we took off, but my better judgement made me stop and think of the consequences of such an act, but believe me, I did have enough anger to do so

  13. HtG Says:

    I mostly try to stay clear of young guys on bikes. They like to zoom around, weaving through traffic and making noise. Mostly they endanger themselves, and I try not to help them meet their maker.

  14. HtG Says:

    Tragically, last week a guy on a moped killed himself around the block from me, as he lost control going down a twisty hill. Went into the trees.

  15. ColoradoKid Says:

    As a former ‘ motorcyclist ‘ ( don’t ever call me a freaking ‘ biker ‘ ) my attitude is a bit simpler . Don’t ____ with me and I won’t ___ with you . Period !

    I’ll be ___ed if I’ll go around compensating for other peoples stupidity . Oh … I’m aware of my surroundings … always drive defensively …… and am not looking for a conflict …. but ….

  16. HtG Says:

    11 I do agree with you, Pedro, that bikers take liberties that are infuriating, and sometimes deliberately so. Young men.

  17. ColoradoKid Says:

    13 – Tragedy ? No mien freund … that one sounds like it ought to be chalked up to blatant stupidity and irresponsibility … in which case I’d say …. Good Riddance !

  18. HtG Says:

    14 I can’t help it, CK, if I see bikers coming up fast in my mirrors I’ll drive deliberately enough that I don’t put them off balance. The penalty for stupidity should only be so high.

  19. HtG Says:

    16 The way I see it, people can get on a bike too easily. If only they had the sense and money to get some training. It’s a very high price to die. You know that surgeons call mopeds ‘organ donorcycles.’

  20. ColoradoKid Says:

    ‘ Bikers ‘

    When the HFL site was in full swing there used to be this one jackwagon by the name of Addy … who constantly wrote articles in defense of his blatant and irresponsible riding habits ( some @$&hat from NYC also contributed his two cents ) claiming it was somehow his and all ‘ biker’s god given right to ride like @$&hats whenever and where ever they pleased because they rode M/C’s .

    Every time I’d read his garbage I’d be infuriated . But that pretty much sums u the attitudes of these ‘ bikers ‘ be they the H-D bad boy wanna be’s or the Crotch Rocket bunch loaded up on god knows what substance

  21. pedro fernandez Says:

    They have a campaign in Fl that says “Look twice for bikes” but the way some of them ride on the freeway cutting back and forth sometimes 2 or 3 lanes at once, even looking 10 times won’t prevent you from cutting on off, unless you have a 360 degree vision.

  22. Marshall Says:

    The ‘link’ to the viper story is bad. It goes to the Tesla story instead. Please fix ASAP

  23. T. Bejma Says:

    To clarify the article…

    The Head of the Design Team (not designer) for the Aztec was also the Head of the Design Team (again, not designer) for the C6 and the C7…

    People that understand the state of the industry now and back when the Aztec was designed, know that the Bean Counters/Corporate Specs were running design and therefore putting out some ugly stuff besides the Aztec.

    After Lutz got in and threw the corporate mandates out the window (for example one of them on the Aztec was that it had to fit a full size bike in the back which drove the rear ugliness of the vehicle – one on the first SRX was that it had to have a 3rd row of seats) and allowed the designers to be much freer and fine examples like the C7, ATS, SRX (although an example of bad blindspots) Cruze, CTS, etc. came out of the Design Studio.

  24. ColoradoKid Says:

    18 – Actually its riders who refuse to wear helmets that are designated ‘ Donor Cyclists ‘ … by the ER and Head Trauma units . I know of at least five MD friends that upon finding out their patients do not wear a helmet when riding will then badger them to sign the organ donor card …. and if the patient choses to go to another MD because of the constant badgering … the MD’s tell em good riddance as they won’t have to deal with them as patients after they’ve dealt with the consequences of riding sans helmet

  25. ColoradoKid Says:

    22 – Either way the influence is obvious now that the facts are known ;-)

  26. HtG Says:

    I guess I’m resigned to biker’s excesses. They’re so so stupid sometimes. Interesting that they feel entitled.

    A NY state trooper I knew escaped getting crushed by a car at a red light, when he sensed it wasn’t going to stop in time behind him. He just jagged to the right onto the shoulder. Sure enough, the car rear ended the car standing ahead. Training.

  27. John McElroy Says:

    21 – Marshall

    Thanks for the heads-up. Link is now fixed.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23,
    Exactly, and the moped riders who don’t wear helmets are taking needless risk, even more than the Hayabusa riders who don’t wear helmets. If you fall off a moped at 20 mph, a helmet can make the difference between being dead, and walking away. If you crash at 150 mph, a helmet isn’t likely to make much difference.

  29. WXY Says:

    John,

    Once again you anti-EV bias is showing. You reported with some glee, in todays Autoline Daily, that plug-in sales were down significantly and for all manufacturers. Yet Autobloggreen.com is showing Plug-in sales up at Ford, Honda and Tesla. All in all they estimate plug-in are up 23.29% to 6,977 for Sept. 2013 from 5,659 in Sept. 2012. How is it that you have a completely opposite information. Maybe not completely opposite. They do show the plug-in hybrid Volt sales are way down (-38.06%), but they show the Leaf up 98.48% to 1,953 from 984 a year earlier.

    WXY

  30. ColoradoKid Says:

    @ WXY – 29

    If I may . Its not John’s so called ‘ bias ‘ thats showing but rather the blatant , agenda based and financially induced bias of AutoBlogGreen thats coming to the fore in spades ( the moniker says it all )

    John’s stats are being reported thru out the press : both business and automotive as well as the industry and are easily verifiable … whereas AutoBlogGreen’s numbers are unadulterated fantasy and deluded wishful thinking

    Simply stated … Sales success has eluded EV’s from their reincarnation and PlugIns .. due to a multitude of factors have waxed and waned in sales since their inception Worldwide and have never actually gained any sales traction .

    Simply stated .. from a purely ‘ Business ‘ perspective .. EV’s and PlugIns sales wise are an abject failure …

    PS; Funny that ABG can make any claims about TESLA’s actual sales in light of the fact that Elon Musk does not release TESLA’s actual sales numbers … Betcha didn’t know that one … did ya ?

  31. HtG Says:

    Challenging John not so wise, however that story about the West Side Highway still intrigues one.

    An aspect of the story I’m not hearing is what it’s like on that highway from about 72nd street north to the George Washington Bridge and beyond. It is madness!! The road is so wavy and tempting, I swear under oath that I should be in chains, too. When you drive home at night, it can be the highpoint of your evening. I’d like to know what the RR driver was thinking before this incident began. Did he not get that the road was being ‘temporarily made even more fun?’ Lordy, you should see the turns at the northern tip of Manhattan and then into the Bronx on the Henry Hudson Parkway. I just lose it. How have I never been stopped? (Peter wonders about those hard core auto enthusiasts in NYC area. Well, this is one of the places where terror and fun meet in the seat of your pants. There’s another street(err, avenue)I know, but it may be too much for some people’s hearts. Makes my heart pound thinking about it.)

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’ve looked at the part of that video several time where the first guy gets hit, and it’s hard to know the whole story. The bike passed the Range Rover very close, and appeared to slow down, but I couldn’t see any brake lights, and it certainly looked like the RR driver made no attempt to avoid hitting the bike. The bike didn’t dive either, so it looked like, rather than “brake checking,” he just let off the throttle in a lower gear. Still, it certainly looked like both the rider and the driver had some fault in the contact.

    After that, it’s not surprising that the riders chased down the SUV, and the rest happened. I just hope I’m never in either end of a situation like that.

  33. Brett Says:

    I watched the video. The guy on the bike brake-checked the Range Rover and got bumped. He then put his macho s*** face on and started vandalizing the guy’s car. The pack mentality took over from there. They’re fortunate he wasn’t armed. They’re also fortunate it wasn’t someone like me who appreciates what a formidable weapon a 2+ ton automobile is.

    I hope they I.D. the lot of ‘em and throw the book at them.

    BTW – I used to ride a motorcycle, so I’m not just some cage operator.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    As I stated in #3, gas prices are trending down, which hurts sales of all high mpg, and alternative fuel vehicles. Click “1m” on the US Retail Gas Price Chart here, for September 2013. It’s downhill all the way.

    http://ycharts.com/indicators/gas_price

    If it goes the other direction for an entire month, we can expect to see an uptick in sales of EV’s, VW TDI’s, and hybrids.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33,
    Maybe he did “brake check,” but it wasn’t obvious that he did. The bike didn’t dive, and I couldn’t see any brake light, and it appeared to be a street bike. Yeah, he was looking back, and not trying very hard to avoid being hit. Still, the Range Rover driver seemed to make no attempt not to hit him.

    All in all, a very ugly incident, as it turned out.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33, It seemed that the RR driver WAS using his two ton truck as a weapon.

    Actually, it is really a wonder no shooting went on. The RR driver probably wasn’t armed, but, being that this is America, some of the riders would have been, but they didn’t shoot anyone in the car.

  37. HtG Says:

    This video isn’t showing everything. While it doesn’t look like a brake check to me, I see an aggressive slowing down of the bike. I say this because I’ve done stuff like this on my bicycle to send a message to a driver. Just enough. You get in someone’s way and look back. It’s very aggressive and dangerous, but I’ll do it if I feel someone was being dangerous to me.(and they don’t look too tough or rabid. Come on ;) )

  38. ColoradoKid Says:

    Brett – 33 – I’m in complete and total agreement with ya on this one . Biker .. wrong … The ‘ Pack’ … dead wrong …. and like you had it been me .. well suffice it to say Franz would of incurred a bit of damage … but that would of been nothing in comparison to the state the ‘ Pack ‘ would of been left in

    ——

    Kit – 34 – Actually if you remember gas prices were pretty much at their peak for the summer for most of this September across most of the US … so there’s a lot more behind those declining EV/PlugIn sales than declining gas prices . I still say its a bit of common and financial sense finally rearing its ugly head thats putting the EV’s and PlugIns in their place sales wise . Heck … even ludicrously low lease prices ( LEAF & VOLT ) discounted sales ( TESLA ) and incentives galore ( Toyota ) didn’t keep the sales moving forward … so …..

    As to the gun/MC comment … I’ll hazard a guess this being America that … no one had one or it would of been used by someone …

  39. ColoradoKid Says:

    37 – yup !

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37,
    Yep, even if he wasn’t braking, he was slowing down, and presumably glaring. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted to be in his position, because if you are on a bike and get hit, even lightly, you lose.

  41. HtG Says:

    depending on the ethnicity of the bikers, I’d doubt that black or hispanic men would risk carrying a gun in NYC. The police focus on them for gun possession. Know what BWB is? One more thing about this driver, you know in NYC that as a car driver you must take care not to threaten pedestrians or bikers. The reason is that you’re so darn easy to pin down. Some months ago a guy bumped a pedestrian downtown, I believe, and then had to sit there while people trashed his car. There’s a measure of care you need here, simply because you’re actually very vulnerable in your car. It’s no tank. Did this RR driver think he’d get away?

    Tesla down again, finishing at 174 after beginning Wednesday at 190. Heavy volume, and trailing S&P and Nasdaq.

  42. HtG Says:

    40 that is exactly the nature of the challenge.

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38,
    The chart showed a steady downward slope in gas prices through September, and such trends have short-term effects on sales of cars like VW TDI’s and Priuses, and I’d expect EV’s as well. Anyway, time will tell.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41,
    Thanks for the insight.

  45. Jonathan Says:

    Great show as always..really enjoy Jim Halls Design Handbook segment. Keep the coming as they are great.

  46. ColoradoKid Says:

    41 – Whoa whoa HtG . Get away ? With what ? The stupid biker got in his way ( brake checked .. offed the throttle … what ever ) and attempted to intimidate the RR driver … not the other way around .

    So what the heck was the RR supposedly trying to ‘ get away ‘ with ? Protecting himself and his family ? Pleaahhhh … heck with that …

    As to the road …. well .. you should of read the excuses that Addy creep I mentioned earlier used in his HFL articles to justify his treating Mulholland Drive as his own personal race track .. traffic be damned as well as the NYC jackwagon doing the same about the very road you’re talking about . To be honest I wonder if that NYC ____ wasn’t one of those in the ‘ pack ‘

  47. HtG Says:

    46 I was speaking in general, that in the city a car driver needs to be very careful around people, cyclists and bikers. The place is so crowded and most streets are embanked by parked cars. A driver is almost always trapped from the sides and rear, there’s people walking, and you’re not going to drive off like in the suburbs. It’s a different mentality. I’ve read some of the comments over at TTAC, where people are talking tough. But that’s not how it works in NYC. I think the RR driver didn’t pick up on what the bikers were up to(even though when I first looked at the video it was instantly clear to me what their plan was. I well know that stretch of road; it also stinks because of the sewage treatment plant). The RR made his mistake early on, even before the video starts. The RR driver really should have just backed off sooner, though some drivers are quite determined to rule the road. But if he panicked in a car with his family, I respect that, and the bikers were too intimidating, likely threatening. Now there will be lawsuits no matter what the DA does. It’s a Bonfire of the Vanities story, the moral of which is stay out of trouble.

  48. HtG Says:

    sorry, I should have indicated that so many streets are narrow one way lanes with cars all along both sides of the road. Headstrong driving is a liability.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41, 47
    HtG, when you said “Did this RR driver think he’d get away?” I thought you meant get away, as in outrun and hide from all the bikes chasing him, a number of which appeared to be dirt bikes that, with a skilled rider, could go places than no SUV could go.

    Maybe that is part of what you meant.

  50. pedro fernandez Says:

    I wonder if the bikers would have still beat up the guy if this had been an autonomous car instead? Most likely, yep! it’d be no fun to beat up the computer.

  51. HtG Says:

    49 yeah. It’s not rational to think you’ll escape two dozen bikes in that place. He drove off the highway from what I gather, which only put him into Manhattan’s street grid. I do respect it if the driver panicked, though. He made his error earlier, which led him to get pinned by angry bikers. Just because you’re in a big expensive car, hyped by TV ads doesn’t make you powerful and invulnerable. I’d like to know what the RR driver was thinking when the bikes first came around him, because I relax. Did he get what the bikers were up to?

  52. cwolf Says:

    I just read in “Left Lane” that the new Corrolla only scored marginal in one of its crash ratings. What I didn’t know was there are several Toyota’s rating poor! Thought pedro would be interested.

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    52,
    Marginal in the IIHS “small overlap” test.

  54. pedro fernandez Says:

    Nah, I don’t even wear a seat belt, if it happens, so be it!

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Pedro, do you wear a helmet?

  56. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Would those automatic braking systems have kept the Range Rover from hitting the bike? Or maybe the RR had such a system, and it didn’t.

  57. pedro fernandez Says:

    A helmet? driving a slow-a$$ Corolla? you gotta be kidding!! No, no helmet, no shoulder,shin or knee pads either.

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It would still be safer than a bike, even wearing a helmet.

  59. HtG Says:

    How about velcro, ya know, Pedro?

  60. C-Tech Says:

    I think the downward trend in EV’s is due to satisfaction of pent-up demand. There is a segment of people who were looking for an EV or plug-in hybrid from a major manufacturer, and now that demand is getting satisfied. The next step if you are building EV’s is to try a prove they are as useful as a conventional ice (good luck with that). It will be interested to see if that happens with smaller Diesels.

  61. C-Tech Says:

    Wear the seatbelt Pedro, at least you’ll avoid a (costly) ticket.

  62. C-Tech Says:

    I believe the Winnebago’s are equipped with the V-6′s because it helps them achieve a certain price point. The smaller motorhomes are bought by less affluent people who are more sensitive to price than compared to the bus and truck based 200K plus motorcoaches.

  63. pedro fernandez Says:

    Imagine trying to drive one of them RV’s with a 6 cyl, loaded, up a hill? #60 you got it!

  64. Kit Gerhart Says:

    A friend recently bought an older Airstream motor home with a non-turbo diesel having 130 hp, or something like that. The Winnebago would be a hot rod in compsrison.

  65. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I just heard on the radio, that someone plans to make cabinets in the Visteon plant that was to used by Carbon Motors.

  66. ColoradoKid Says:

    Bon iver gentlemen ! ( good winter ) First measurable snowfall of the season . Though not such a ‘ bon’ thing for those in the flood stricken areas

    ———–

    60 – That most certainly is a very large part of it . Not the whole story mind you . But a very large part of the story which many were predicting ( including moi ) from day one .

  67. ColoradoKid Says:

    Jerry Seinfeld on Automotive Advertising ;

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-03/seinfeld-pledges-to-help-make-acura-master-of-its-domain.html

    Once again .. it takes a comedian to set the story straight ;-)

  68. pedro fernandez Says:

    CK in your honor, I will be going to the beach tomorrow!

  69. ColoradoKid Says:

    Pedro – 68 – Yeah yeah … fact is though … I likes the snow !

  70. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yes I like snow cones too and when I was a itty bitty boy I used to throw snowballs and slide down in a snow board, something really natural and normal for a Cuban kid to be playing in the snow.

  71. Josu Says:

    People can hardly feel surprised for the reaction of Tesla stock over the fire. The stock is wildly, insanely overvalued by every measure. Even that is not the biggest problem, the think is that the stock have climbed around seven times in a year, that is known as a parabolic in the business, even really financially sound companies like Apple and Google have had wild crashes after parabolics much smaller than this, Google in 2008, and Apple last year, in this case a +40% drop even if by fundamentals the stock wasn’t really overvalued. Compare that to Tesla, and you must be prepared to a wild ride at the minimum cause of concern.

    Disclaimer: I don’t have any Tesla stock, and still thing its more probable fate is Chapter 11.

  72. Josu Says:

    I made a big mistake in my previous post, lost in translation from spanish, sorry, let me rearrange my post.

    People can hardly feel surprised for the reaction of Tesla stock over the fire. The stock is wildly, insanely overvalued by every measure. Even that is not the biggest problem, the think is that the stock have climbed around seven times in a year, that is known as a parabolic spike o going ballistic in the business, even really financially sound companies like Apple and Google have had wild crashes after parabolic spikes much smaller than this, Google in 2008, and Apple last year, in this case a +40% drop even if by fundamentals the stock wasn’t really overvalued. Compare that to Tesla, and you must be prepared to a wild ride at the minimum cause of concern.

    Disclaimer: I don’t have any Tesla stock, and still thing its more probable fate is Chapter 11.