AD #1291 – Price War Looming?, Cadillac ATS Coupe Revealed, Nissan Unveils Two Concepts

January 14th, 2014 at 11:31am

Runtime: 5:28

- Jeep to Hit 1 Million Global Sales in 2014?
- Excess Inventory Could Lead to Price War
- New Ford F-150 Years Ahead of Competition
- Cadillac Unveils ATS Coupe
- Nissan Reveals Two Concepts
- Autoline LIVE Preview

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Jeep to Hit 1 Million Global Sales in 2014?

Excess Inventory Could Lead to Price War

New Ford F-150 Years Ahead of Competition

Cadillac Unveils ATS Coupe

Nissan Sports Sedan Concept

Nissan IDx Concepts

Later this afternoon, starting at 1 pm eastern time we’ll have our second day of live coverage of the North American International Auto Show here in Detroit brought to you by our signature sponsor Chrysler. I hope you’re ready because once again we’re bringing you interviews with the show’s biggest newsmakers, like Dave Zuchowski, CEO of Hyundai Motor America, Peter Schreyer, Global Design Director of Kia, as well as Tom Kearns from Kia, Mike Manley, President and CEO of the Jeep Brand, Bob Ferguson, Senior VP of Cadillac, Tony Nicolosi, President and CEO of Volvo North America and Jim Lentz, President and COO of Toyota North America. Remember to submit your questions and comments via Twitter using the hashtag #NAIASLIVE. And that wraps up today’s report. Thanks for watching.

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127 Comments to “AD #1291 – Price War Looming?, Cadillac ATS Coupe Revealed, Nissan Unveils Two Concepts”

  1. Brett Says:

    That Nissan concept seems like a cross between a 510 and a Lancia Stratos. The first image made me think it might be a Lancia before you told what it was.

    If Ford ever feels like going retro again and does a repop of the 1969 Thunderbird, I’d be game. :)

  2. pedro fernandez Says:

    Obamacare is going to negatively impact new car sales in 2014

  3. pedro fernandez Says:

    Funny how there IS a problem with all aluminum engines and their weakness to overheating.

  4. buzzerd Says:

    and you will measure that how pedro?

  5. G.A.Branigan Says:

    I remember the problems with cast iron blocks and aluminum heads,and the problems with all aluminum engines long ago,but nothing in the last decade or so.Well,not that I can remember at any rate.

  6. Buzzerd Says:

    hey pedro, can the glass never be half full in your world.

  7. HtG Says:

    5 that’s just what porsche wants you to think, GA

  8. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Even though Ford has been apparently ‘beta’ testing the new aluminum skins on the f150 for a while,any damage will be expensive to fix.Someone pointed that out yesterday as well as increased insurance costs.

    So,will the aftermarket come out with replacement sheet metal fenders and such to keep costs down? Also,aluminum doesn’t take kindly to constant vibrations where they are fastened.They tend to develop stress cracks pretty easily.

    Would that mean then that ford is bonding those panels on? I wonder…

  9. G.A.Branigan Says:

    LOL……I don’t know anything about porsches.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Back to the new F-150, and its weight saving of 700 pounds. That 700 pound weight saving is significant, but no doubt applies the the heaviest version, the crew cab. The current one weighs 5725 pounds, 310 more than the current Silverado. With its 700 pound weight saving, it will weigh 390 pounds, or ~7% less than the Silverado. That’s impressive, but not like knocking 700 pounds off the weight of a ~3500 pound car would be.

  11. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: I believe that 700 lbs was off of their top of the line platinum crewcab only?

  12. pedro fernandez Says:

    If people are forced to buy health ins. they will have less money to buy a car! Many, many people, especially young ones, don’t want to buy health ins at all! GA I wish I had bought the previous gen Corolla with its iron block engine, it turned out to be a better motor than the aluminum one that came out starting in 1998, those older Toyota motors were indestructible, not so the newer ones.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I have two iron block/aluminum head engines over 20 years old, and so far, so good. It seems that corrosion problems are the biggest issue, so I change the coolant every few years.

    Aluminum has a higher coefficient of expansion than cast iron, but that doesn’t seem to cause problems, at least not that I hear about.

  14. C-Tech Says:

    In my experience, aluminium engines, and aluminium heads on cast iron blocks DO NOT like being overheated. The cast iron heads seem not to distort as much as aluminium and will come back to their orginal shape after cooling. If an aluminium engine is driven too much with a bad water pump or leaking radiator, the warped head must be replaced or reworked. Of course with many interference engines the consumer will break valves or crack the head before it overheats due to water pump failure.

  15. pedro fernandez Says:

    I don’t understand why Ford keeps such a lead over GM in trucks, most truck buyers want a V8 not some turbo 6 thing, and the Silverado V8 has the same mileage as the complicated Ford V6 turbo.

  16. Buzzerd Says:

    pedro what about the people who save money or are just plain allowed to buy insurance when they weren’t before? won’t that have a positive effect? Either way doesn’t matter to me, I’m canadian, I won’t have to sell my house to pay for an operation.

  17. pedro fernandez Says:

    C-Tech one thing I know is that if I see that temp needle just go up a bit, I’d better shut it off right away unless I want to replace the engine.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It is people with money that buy new cars, and they already buy health insurance; they have too much to lose if they don’t have insurance.

  19. Buzzerd Says:

    pedro – I guess cause most truck buyers do want a turbo 6 thing or they wouldn’t sell so many of the optional engines.

  20. jack878 Says:

    My question is, can Ford really lockup the aluminum supplies mention by John? I think that’s illegal. That’s controlling it’s competitors by wrongful means. I can not believe Ford can do that.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11, That sounds right. We’ll learn more about the actual weights, compared to the competition, when they hit the market, and CR and other magazine people actually weigh them.

  22. C-Tech Says:

    Pedro, in the long run more young people with health insurance will be able to afford cars after they have an accident or illness since they won’t have the catastrophic bills to deal with. Of course they may opt to spend that disposable income on phones, gaming, and other devices (or vices).

  23. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yeah, and these Obama ins policies have a huge deductible so they won’t kick in until you have a catastrophic surgery or illness, otherwise there are no routine checkups and preventative care coverage at all, so what’s the point? You Canadians don’t have to police the world, or give billions in foreign aid. that is why your govt can do all that for you

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Maybe Ford will start their own, private beer and soda can recycling operation to get aluminum.

  25. G.A.Branigan Says:

    I’m a pickup truck buyer and I do not want to own a v8 ever again.I can do what I want with a small turbo diesel like the one that will be available in the new colorado.And I really believe that if chevy keeps the price point ‘real’,they will prove to be very popular and sell them like hotcakes.Nissan will be coming out with a diesel option on their new frontier.I think that’s for 2016.Rumor has it that they will use the ISF Cummins diesel that was tested in their titan.

  26. C-Tech Says:

    I wonder if there is a market for a flat-out smaller full-size truck? It would weigh less, could have the same towing capacity and a 6 ft bed. You can practically stand up in the excess space under the hood of some of the newer trucks.

  27. pedro fernandez Says:

    Does this mean that the price of aluminum foil is going up? C-Tech, most young people don’t ever think they’re gonna get sick until they get old. that is why they don’t care about having health ins unless it’s provided at work.

  28. jack878 Says:

    pedro fernandez @15

    What will happen is when those Ecoboost Ford trucks get older with lots of miles, they will begin failing and then, the GM V8 trucks will keep a ticking. If that happens, Ford will be in dire strait.

  29. ColoradoKid Says:


  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Canada, with their “medicare for everyone,” spends a lot less per person on health care than the U.S. and, but most criteria, has better results.

  31. ColoradoKid Says:

    Hmmn … one more try …. the Z06 …

  32. pedro fernandez Says:

    #24 they should start with the Super Bowl, lots of aluminum cans get tossed on that weekend.

  33. Buzzerd Says:

    pedro – we do actually participate in wars and do give foreign aid we just don’t feel it’s necessary to invade every county with oil to subsidize the arms manufacturers, corporate welfare in other words. You could be a lot closer to a balanced budget if you weren’t buying multi million dollar tanks and billion dollar planes…. just to sit in a field somewhere.

  34. pedro fernandez Says:

    #28 Exactly, and trucks are supposed to be tough and rough and put up with years of hard service in construction, farming, etc I just don’t see that scenario with turbo engines and aluminum everything. Chevy should bring back their “Like a Rock” campaign when these new F 150′s come out, F for flexible.

  35. pedro fernandez Says:

    Well, we got to be ready, you just never new what some despot around the world maybe planning, and you know we are the world’s 9 1 1 emergency service.

  36. ColoradoKid Says:

    Canadian Health Care – The facts

    Been there ( Vancouver BC for two years ) Done that …. it sucks … point blank . Excessive government expenditures which in fact many in Canada are already saying they can no longer afford … hideous wait times … lousy medical care [ ever wonder why they come here for serious medical care ] .. pathetic service .. from all the providers .. etc etc etc

    Fact is …. the ONLY place Canadians are at an advantaged Medical and Dental care wise is …. the low cost of their prescriptions … and thats only because unlike the US .. the CDN government doesn’t pander to the pharmaceutical industry by allowing them to seriously over charge for prescription drugs

    But other than that ? CDN Health Care ? No thanks … y’all can keep your pathetic health care up north where y’alls anything but the paragon of good health and well being ;-)

  37. pedro fernandez Says:

    know instead of new, my bad!

  38. pedro fernandez Says:

    #36 this also applies to some banana republics as well, those who can afford it, come here for procedures and surgeries even though in their countries it’s free. Funny thing is that we’re seeing a lot of tourism surgeries going on to Asia and Latin America being performed by US trained doctors.

  39. buzzerd Says:

    as usual Colarodo you haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about but carry on.

  40. ColoradoKid Says:

    33 – The truth here Buzzerd … not that the truth has ever been that important to you .

    Canada … follows our lead when it come to International aid . conflicts etc … and thats only to suck up to us … seeing as how y’alls more than just a bit dependent on us ( US ) for just about everything …

    Fact is .. y’alls been bigger Lap Dogs to the US government and which ever president is sitting in power over the last five decades than your pretentious cousins ‘cross the pond [ UK ]

    Don’t get me wrong Buzz ole bean … there’s much to love about Canada and Canadians in general … fact is Vancouver BC is my fav NA city by far …

    But when it comes to Health Care – World Affairs – Leadership in the World [ of any kind ] Innovation [ of any kind .. excepting maybe Cervelo ] etc …

    … well …. y’alls left more than just a bit … errr …. wanting

  41. pedro fernandez Says:

    Man alive!! that Maxima concept is one ugly looking car, it looks like the designer was dropping acid or something.

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    So what’s Mr. Baruth’s problem, exactly? Is it the supercharger? Yes, they will offer an automatic, but so do his beloved Germans, many of which offer ONLY an automatic.

    On one thing, I probably agree. The “show car” looks pretty bad with the bumble bee color treatment.

  43. Buzzerd Says:

    sure CK, of course you are completely correct, please tell us more of the sky in your world

  44. ColoradoKid Says:

    39 – Like to challenge my assertions head on there Buzz ole bean ?

    You’ll lose …. but what the heck …. give it the ole Canadian heave ho … and see just how badly you do lose .

    Like I said …. been there … done that … got friend and [ some famous ] associates all across the country ( Vancouver BC , Montreal Quebec , Toronto Ontario etc ] not to mention more than a few ex pat friends and associates living here ( US ) now that wouldn’t move back if the CDN government paid them to

    Ehhh … whats the use … like your ‘cross the pond cuz’s .. y’alls more than a bit delusional when it comes to your actual PLACE …. in the overall world context

  45. pedro fernandez Says:

    #42 Kit, you have to forgive him, he’s still recovering from that accident.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Everyone in Canada has access to preventive care. The general care is good for routine illness, and any life threatening issues. I know a Canadian cancer patient who is ecstatic with her care from the Canadian system, knowing how badly, and inefficiently the U.S. non-system works for so many people.

    CK, from what you say, you have lots of money, which helps the U.S. system work well for you. For a lot of Americans, basic preventive care is difficult, or impossible to get.

  47. ColoradoKid Says:

    Kit – His problem is … the C6 Z06 was completely different animal from nose to tail .. from platform to body etc .. It was a beast to drive .. a monster to own … and only appealed to the most ardent and hard core Vette enthusiast

    Whereas the C7 Z06 … is nothing more than a tarted up C7 pretending to be something special .. and is a car your aging Gram could drive with no problem what so ever

  48. ColoradoKid Says:

    46 – Kit .. Lets be clear … and if you’ve paid attention you know how I feel on this .

    IMO the current Health Care System in the US … sucks … even for those of us with both the money and connections to supposedly make it work [ reminding you about the 13 year old problem I've finally now gotten properly diagnosed and being treated as we speak... ]

    BUT …. the Canadian system … is even worse … despite what ever delusions ole Buzz may put forth .. or what ever propaganda the Canadian government sticks in our face

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    47, Yeah, that is probably true.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    48, Most of the Canadians I know, including ones with money, seem to like their system. It has faults, for sure, but it works pretty well overall, at least compared to what we have.

    I guess we just know different groups of Canadians.

  51. buzzerd Says:

    so because it’s easy to drive it’s no good, unless of course it’s made by a foreign manufacturer then its good engineering.
    and by tarted up you mean 200ish extra HP and some other changes

  52. gary susie Says:

    Hey pedro this is about cars not your political views.

  53. buzzerd Says:

    @50 eg- my mother required bypass surgery, Doc says there is not hurry and it will be about 3months give or take. She goes to Rochester for a second opinion from the supposed best medical system in the world. Doc says he agrees there is no hurry and they can do it tomorrow for 30-50large deeding on what they have to do and barring complications. If there are complications the skys the limit. Comes home and has the surgery about 2months later, at no charge of course. Oh and some of the doctors that work here also work in Rochester, so the doctors can be the same also, the only difference is who’s paying the bill.

  54. pedro fernandez Says:

    Why do you direct your comment only at me and not others that make sociopolitical opinions as well?

  55. ColoradoKid Says:

    51 – Oh … you really are quite clueless when it comes to my opinions now … aren’t you Buzz ole bean ?

    Cause if you knew anything .. you’d know I not only loved the C6 .. as well as heartily recommended it to anyone who asked … not to mention being a huge fan of the Mustang BOSS302 .. Shelby derivatives etc .

    I was also [ and yes ... I've driven both in anger on and off the track ] a huge fan of the C6 Z06 and ZR1 as well

    The POINT of the article … and my opinion being oh Northern One …. is that Chevy should not of called this watered down performance version a Z06

    Take a moment … breath … do a bit of research Buzz .. and see just how different the C6 Z06 was from the C6 [ as well as the ZR1 ] in comparison to this new Z06 travesty and the C7 its based on


    Kit – The main difference may be …. I’ve lived there and experienced their healthcare system first hand.. as well as ours …. where as they have not experienced ours and you have not experience theirs .

    Both you and them coming to your conclusions thru second hand experience

  56. ColoradoKid Says:

    54 – ignore em Pedro !

  57. ColoradoKid Says:

    53 – Yeah yeah … heard it all … seen it all … been there as well .. unlike you … and your mum … one little trip south ( and what pray tell medical center in Rochester might that of been ? * ) not counting for a hill of beans

    * Just like y’all .. not ALL hospitals are created equal in the US either … and don’t even try and feed me the propaganda that yours all are … cause you know as well as I do thats the furthest thing from the truth

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    55, “I’ve lived there and experienced their healthcare system first hand.. as well as ours …. where as they have not experienced ours and you have not experience theirs .”

    Actually, “they” , meaning some friends, have experienced both. You’re right, in that I have not used the Canadian system.

  59. pedro fernandez Says:

    Honda does it again with the redesigned Fit, just improved on the original w/o changing it completely,if they get the handling right, it should take a big bite out of Fiesta sales. Honda must have taken notice on how Scion messed up the xB and did not want to do likewise.

  60. ColoradoKid Says:

    Enough Canada and Health Care … though I’m not in agreement at all with Gary S singling out Pedro … I can agree its time to drop the subject and get back to cars …

    … and on that subject ;

    For those tired of all the Hype & Hyperbole from this years NAIAS

    An Alfa Romeo .. from the days … when Alfa’s .. were really .. Alfa’s

    Now … if Cadillacs would finally get back to being … Cadillacs ( instead of BMW , M-B wanna be’s ) Vette’s would get back to being Vette’s ( instead of AudiGhini wish they was ) and GM’d quit BS’ing us on a constant and steady basis

  61. pedro fernandez Says:

    Now Velocity has another new show about this guy based in Colo buying classic cars and re-selling them, Wow CK I had no idea that your state was such a mecca for classic, well-preserved cars!

  62. Kit Gerhart Says:

    59, To me, the main thing wrong with the old Fit was it’s being too noisy, and a little “rough around the edges” to be pleasant on a long trip. Also, the manual transmission was a 5-speed with a too-low top gear, making it buzzy at highway speed. It looks like most, or all of that is fixed in the new one. It will be a great, “do everything” car for a lot of people.

  63. pedro fernandez Says:

    But isn’t that always the problem with Honda, noise I mean, we used to have a participant here who went by many names who always defended Honda and said that a quiet car was not important at all, (he had a 7 series, however) but I do feel that sometimes Honda loses a customer here and there to a quieter vehicle in the same class.

  64. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It seems that, with the C7, the ‘Vette is “moving on” from being a car for the people Jack Baruth doesn’t like. I, for one, think the C7 looks good in dark colors, and it is certainly a step forward in refinement, while also improving in outright performance, for what that is worth on the street.

    Also, Cadillac is moving on from building cars for WWII veterans who aren’t buying many new cars any more. I agree that it is a tough sell against Benz and BMW, at similar prices, no matter how good the car. Cadillac is certainly doing a lot better than Lincoln, though.

  65. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Yeah, it seems that for a long time, Accords and Civics have generally been noisier than most of the competition, and I suspect most people would rather have less, rather than more cabin noise. I know I would, if I were buying a mid-size sedan.

  66. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Socialized medicine in the USA: For any that thinks it will work,ask a vet who has no choice but to use the VA for healthcare.The govt still has no clue/long ass delays/and NO accountability.This is fact,not conjecture.

    C7 Vette: Agreed,it looks much better in dark colors.

    TTAC: Baruth is a tool.

    @ Pedro: I tried watching several episodes of that new show and just can’t do it.That guy is a self centered tool,and the show is unwatchable.

  67. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Here’s a nice tidbit:

  68. HtG Says:

    Yup, a 10 year old Civic is a noisy little car. With only about 100+hp if you geared it any higher it would be stuck real good at 65 mph or higher. But on the other hand, you truly do not wish to test it’s suspension anywhere over 80mph.

    (Charming little quirk it has; drive through the rain and it sometimes sounds like it’s raining INTO car, if the water hits just right.)

    Jack B Troublemaker has picked up how the new C7 is aimed at a new crowd, I guess. Don’t anyone pay attention to me as I laugh at the internet Andrettis who get so keyed up about a stick shift. You want 600hp on a public road? You’re going to need a lot of assistance from a computer.

  69. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I like manual transmissions in low powered cars, like a 118 hp MINI, or a 90 hp Rabbit Cabriolet, but I’m not sure if I’d want a manual or auto if buying a new, high powered car, where I had a choice. It’s been a while since I’ve even driven a manual in a big-engine car. The last one was a mid-’90′s Camaro.

  70. HtG Says:

    What I vaguely was trying to say is that there are so many driver aids on cars today, especially on very powerful and grippy cars, why focus so much on whether it’s a manual or an automatic? And with performance limits so high, only a ignorant nut is going to lean on a car that doesn’t have a computer assistant; the costs of an error are final. Did you hear the discussion on Autoline two weeks ago, where we learned that the C7 has a thermocouple in the suspension, which measures tire temps so brake bias can be adjusted? That’s awesome, but also an assist.

  71. HtG Says:

    I’m even starting to read romantic cooing about the cable throttles of yesteryear.

  72. ColoradoKid Says:

    C7 Z06

    Thinking about the discussion … there’s actually two good reasons GM should not of called it a Z06

    The first .. as previously discussed .. being those of us that actually know what a Z06 was .. [ unlike say .. err .. Buzz ole bean ] which was about as close to a road going fire breathing street legal C6R monster of a car as any factory was ever going to make … are going to be severely disappointed as well as seriously PO’d by this monikered in name only .. rather than real Z06 .. which equals lost sales

    The second being …. those that were put off by the C6 Z06′s radical behavior and challenging driving dynamics ( you needed to a] know what you were doing in the C6 Z06 as well as b[ have the stones to use the car to its fullest ) .... are no doubt going to be scared off [ despite not needing to be ] by the C7 Z06 as well … which equals lost sales yet again

    So …. once again GM sticks their marketing foot into it . First calling the VOLT an EV instead of an extended range hybrid … and now calling the hopped up C7 a Z06 .. when they should of called it something like … oh .. I dunno … say a C7 SS – C7Z – C7-V etc to distinguish it from its fire breathing older brother as well as its lesser C7 sibling

    Will those idiots in GM’s marketing department ever learn ?

    Doubtful ..

  73. Kit Gerhart Says:

    71, I have some of those cable throttles. Also, cable clutches.

    HtG, does your Civic have a cable, or hydraulic clutch?

  74. Mike Says:

    Lots of discussion here re: aluminum heads etc. What I have really noticed is that DOHC engines seem to head for the bone yard ahead of push rod variants. The Ford Taurus is an example. I saw a bunch of early 2000 models lined up. Probably 70% were the 24VDOHC. The original take rate for that engine was probably something like 20% versus the Vulcan V-6. A lot of dead Saturns for the same reason. DOHC’s are more vulnerable to poor oil change histories.

  75. ColoradoKid Says:

    70 – Tis a far far better thing to drive an unassisted back to basics slow car fast … than it is to drive an over nannified … yer goram 80 year old auntie could drive it at 85% fast car .. boringly slow .. in comparison to what its capable of

  76. ColoradoKid Says:

    74 – Murphy’s Law in action ;-)

  77. pedro fernandez Says:

    G.A. I agree with you, but I still like the cars, I think this guy was put there because a lot of people don’t like Wayne Carini’s sour puss even when he should be happy that he got what he wanted! Why isn’t it that I cannot find any “rebuilt” aluminum engines for my car, I guess you just don’t re-bore those? If I had a dollar for every time I long for a higher gear, I’d be well off

  78. HtG Says:

    72 CK, some poster at TTAC calling himself ‘catguy’ said the Z28 Camaro is the hardcore weapon in the line up. Just how many people are there who can exploit a dangerous car? I agree that we’ve lost something from the days when it took skills and courage, not just money to drive a super car: a certain respect.

    73 hydraulic clutch

  79. HtG Says:

    78 calling himself ‘carguy’

    firkin autocorrect don’t do context

  80. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The C7 Z06 is a higher performance C7, as the C6 Z06 was a higher performance C6. Yeah, the C7 version is easier to drive. Isn’t that progress? That is not what everyone wants, which is why there is a market for older cars, even for those who can afford anything they want.

    Isn’t the Porsche they now call a 911 easier to drive than the ones from years ago? Along those lines, people should really have a problem with using the 911 name for a car which has so very little similarity to what Porsche 911′s once were.

  81. ColoradoKid Says:

    G.A. Branigan

    Socialized Medicine – +1 and a good point i hadn’t thought of . A family friend who’s a retired General has more than once told his family and friends to NEVER take him to a VA hospital .. despite the cost .

    Baruth – A tool sometimes perhaps … but this time with the Z06 he nailed it right on the head . Chevy’s gonna pay big time [ in lost sales ] over this idiotic move . Just like they did with the VOLT

    Carini ? Seriously ? Come on G.A. … a made for TV personality maybe …. but a Tool ? Not hardly ;-)

    Meet the guy face to face sometime . Proof positive what ya sees on TV hardly ever resembles reality . Well .. excepting perhaps Old and Little Yeller ( the Teutel’s )

  82. HtG Says:

    It’s progress indeed. A new era. If someone wants something old school, it’s just like you say,Kit, there’s lots of fine used cars out there.

  83. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The VA hospitals are grossly under-funded, so are not a very fair example of “socialized medicine.”

  84. ColoradoKid Says:

    80 – No Kit … the C6 Z06 had the chassis straight out of the C6R .. along with several other mods the C6 and even the ZR1 never saw

    Whereas ….. ALL the C7 Z06 is is is a hopped up C7 in Z06 drag

    Come on Kit !!! You’re former GM ! As well as now part of the Corvette faithful !! And … and ……

    …..You tellin me … I … Mr I Hate what GM has Become …… knows more about the C6 and its variants than you do ????

    For shame good sir . Hang yer head low …. back outta the room slowly so’s not to draw attention to yourself … and do a bit of remedial reading up on the C6 models … especially the details

    Maybe THEN …. you’ll comprehend why it is I despise the C7 so much despite having loved the C6

    Sigh …

  85. HtG Says:

    CK, the C7 and C7R share the same chassis off the same production line. Why make the Z06 any different? Besides, the new chassis is much stiffer than what they were making before.

  86. pedro fernandez Says:

    Does anyone know how much Ford is gonna have to charge for this aluminum trucks? seems to me that all aluminum cars are high end, luxo cars where money is not an issue, not so a pickup? this maybe another misstep by For, just like the turbos and double clutch automanuals.

  87. HtG Says:

    86 I’m also worried that Ford will stretch the envelope a little too far.

  88. ColoradoKid Says:

    82 – Progress my lily white tuckus

    More like pandering to the masses as well as Mediocre being the new Wonderful …


    83 – And you actually even for an instant believe anyones socialized medicine is well funded ?

    Brother … have you got another thing coming . Yeah yeah … the Loosey Goosey Lefty Loony Socialist wanna be’s ( who’ve never experienced socialized medicine first hand in their entire life ) as well as all those countries so deluded as to believe what they have is so great [ till they come here ] will all try and convince you what they say is so …

    Its not .

    As I’ve said 1000 times Kit


    In any aspect of life . For every benefit perceived … there’s an actual and most often devastating cost involved

    And in closing … if I may …have a look see over EU/UK way … they’re all cutting back … drastically … Because … the Pipers demanding his pay … and he don’t take no stinking IOU’s … and errr … ya might wanna have a look at where 90% of all the advances in medicine and prescription drugs are coming from Kit … cause it aint from the Socialized Medicine countries … its from

    .. us [ US ]

    Think about that one for a moment ;-)

  89. Kit Gerhart Says:

    CK, maybe when you start out with something as good as the base C7, you don’t have to go to such extremes to build a performance version, or a race car, as they did with the C6.

  90. HtG Says:

    88 I didn’t say I liked it. Look at what I’ve been driving

  91. ColoradoKid Says:

    85 – You’ve missed the entire point … and oh …. btw … haven’t heard the news yet I take it ?

    Hate to rain on GM’s parade but … errr … the C7′s underpinnings …. are the C6′s underpinnings … plain and simple … with a Lady Gaga party dress on top to make it appear to be new

    Don’t believe me ? Seen any third party verifications that the C7′s platform is so much stiffer ?

    Looked underneath one from under a lift side by side with a C6 ?

    Sorry mein herr … GM’s pulling a fast one on us … again !

  92. Kit Gerhart Says:

    88, CK says: “83 – And you actually even for an instant believe anyones socialized medicine is well funded ?”

    Exactly. No one’s socialized medicine is particularly well funded. If as much money were spent per person by the Canadian single payer system as with our non-system, the CDN system would be MUCH better than what we have, rather than just better for most people, as is now the case.

  93. ColoradoKid Says:

    89 – So now in the Age of Mediocrity .. starting off with the decade old C6 … leaf springs and all … has suddenly become … ” So Good ” …. ?

    Errrr …. methinks not !

    And any way … the POINT is … the C6 Z06 was a radical departure from the C6 …. whereas the C7 Z06 is just a hopped up C7 in Z06 drag … which makes it ….

    NOT a Z06 … period

  94. HtG Says:

    CK, I was not clear. The C7 frame is all new compared to C6. But yes, still the crapalicious rear suspension. (Sorry GM, sometimes I get crazy)

  95. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Carini ? Seriously ? Come on G.A. … a made for TV personality maybe …. but a Tool ? Not hardly ;-)

    I never said that about Carini.I don’t like that new car show that Pedro was talking about where the tall guy with the cowboy hat screws people out of their cars,then leaves a playing card.I watched two shows then deleted the timer on my dvr,(the Hoppa).

  96. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ 83,Kit: The VA’s are anything but underfunded.If interested in some VA nooz,go here:

  97. pedro fernandez Says:

    If I were running GM I would not be too worried about this F150 with the aluminum and the turbo and the infotainment package. That is one expensive weight loss plan they got going there at Ford

  98. Brett Says:


    Have you considered an imported JDM used engine as a replacement? Google “Imported Japanese Engines”.

    There is little or no market for used vehicles in Japan. They cut the front clip off of ‘em and stuff 20′ ISO containers full of front clips to ship to other countries. They’re low mile engines.

  99. ColoradoKid Says:

    92 – A reminder . I’m not saying our system is good . Its anything but . Problem being …. there’s nothing any better out there at the moment either .

    Fact is .. had there been genuine negotiation [ theres a thought ] and proper time and consideration for Obamacare .. rather than Obama and Co’s desperate rush to push it thru and the Righty Tighty crew’s constant obstructionism … maybe we could of come up with a decent viable and sustainable system that would of fixed at least most of the woes we ALL Kit … from top on down deal with in our current Health Care Kluge .

    But … they didn’t … and now we’re stuck with yet another mess which ;

    A) Does not address the REAL problem ( the high cost of health care and the cost of the degrees as well as malpractice insurance .. its like placing a band aid on a fatal wound and calling it healed )

    B) And in fact creates as many if not more problems than it’ll ever solve [ talked to anyone trying to sign up yet ? ... Never mind claim any benefits ? ... eeesh ]

  100. pedro fernandez Says:

    I always wonder why these people are so willing to let go of their prized possessions for less money than they’re worth like in that car show and those other pawn shop reality shows? they’re just lazy to sell on their own, my son did the same mistake and allowed CarMax to make a tidy $4k profit on his traded in xB.

  101. Kit Gerhart Says:

    And it does not address the waste involved with insurance bureaucracy syphoning off about 30% of our health care dollars.

  102. ColoradoKid Says:

    97 – If I were GM I’d know that the current F150 is kicking the bejeesus outta the Silverado/GMC twins sales wise … and that the new F150 is only gonna make things much much worse

    Fact is …. GM’s lost the Full Size P/U wars hands down … with now even Toyota coming up on their rear

    God help GM with their Colorado travesty as well if VW brings their small Pick Up here ..

    So the question is …. just what category does GM now stand a Bats Chance in Hades of succeeding in ?

    Pretense ? Bad Marketing ? Br Ba perhaps ? ( I hear demand for the ‘ Blue ‘ is on the rise since the show ended … yes … there is a ‘ Blue ‘ )

  103. ColoradoKid Says:

    101 – Yup !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . In spades !!!!!!!!!!!

  104. Kit Gerhart Says:

    100, In the case of “collector” cars, it seems that some people just like to restore them, and don’t care how much money they lose. I’ve watched some of the Barrett Jackson auctions on TV, and cars were selling for a fraction of what someone would have spent restoring them.

  105. ColoradoKid Says:

    102 cont ..

    Hey … I know …. GM can be an early adapter ….come Colorado way and join in on the … errr …. well …. Profits ?

    cough …

    [ talk about messes in the making ]

  106. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Ford won’t be able to raise the price on the new F-150 substantially, even though it will cost more to make, unless they will be saving money getting all of the engines from China, or something.

  107. pedro fernandez Says:

    I don’t know if there is a Japanese Corolla engine for US version cars since they’re both different, I will look into it, I know someone who squeezed in an inline turbo 6 from a Japanese Crown into an SX 240 for drifting use

  108. pedro fernandez Says:

    Just looked online, could not find any for a 98 Corolla and the few that were there are meant for a manual transmission.

  109. Brett Says:


    You go by the engine number, usually. It doesn’t which model it comes from as long as it’s the same engine number.

    I can take a 2.0L DOHC Hyundai engine and drop it in the Eclipse because they’re identical engines. (Not any 2.0L DOHC Hyundai engine, of course.) Mitsubishi provided Hyundai with the Colt platform and a couple engine designs when they were getting started back in the late 70s and 80s.

    Anyhow, the JDM importer will know what works and what doesn’t. There are some good ones down in Miami, in fact.

  110. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Despite my discounts with ford,I don’t like their cammers.I had two of them and around 30k miles they start to act up.I was told,’oh that’s just the cam phasers wearing out’.I also don’t like their two part sparkplugs,and especially trying to change them out.I also don’t like the electronic rear diff lockers.For those I don’t like them on ANY truck at all.

  111. pedro fernandez Says:

    Thanks that will be a good option when this one goes bye bye.

  112. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Pedro: Just change out the bell housing with the one you have already,same same with the flex plate etc.

  113. Bradley Says:

    North America Truck of the Year

    [doesn't equal]

    The truck that is taking all the Detroit Auto Show headlines.


  114. HtG Says:

    Boring but Important

    An article about how the Fed is considering pushing banks out of the commodities biz. Fed thinks that risks in markets like oil may endanger large banks, and that correlations between physical assets and derivatives sold
    at banks are too variable.

    It’s interesting in light of Ford’s move into aluminum. F will have to have some sharp traders to out shark NYC sharks

    In other nooz, CK, it’s Gedda nite! Chez HtG.

  115. pedro fernandez Says:

    113 cause it’s not out yet, when it debuts it will be chosen I’m sure of it!

  116. Bradley Says:


    Ah, so the North American Truck of the Year is for a vehicle that has already had a year.

    I missed that…still, headlines are being stolen.

  117. T. Bejma Says:

    Unlike some Sound Engineers who like to pretend they know about automotive and Corvette’s, I have extensively driven a C6 Z06 Carbon with the Track Package and the C7 Z51 and I can tell you that the C7 is just as good just as radical as the C6 Z06 so I am sure that the C7 Z06 is much better than the C6 Z06.

    No one, outside of GM Employees (even Mr. Baruth) have driven the C7 Z06, so there is not one single educated comment on this site about it’s driving dynamics. Lot of blah, blah, blah and nothing else…

  118. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yep, we already know the winner of the 2015 truck of the year

  119. C-Tech Says:

    @ #117 T.B. if you read the editorial rant by Baruth (who may not even own the previous Z06) it is not about the new Z06 being a better performing Corvette. His rant is that the new Z06 is not a stripped-down special which requires greater driving skill and is hard to use as a daily driver. Apparently he has some psychic problem with Corvette owners. The whole argument Baruth has, has got holes big enough to drive a Silverado Diesel dually through (imho).

  120. Kit Gerhart Says:

    113, 115, 116, 118
    The talk is always about the vehicle that was just revealed to the public, not the one that has been on the market for months. A year from now, the F-150 will be named NATOTY, but something else, recently introduced, with be getting all of the discussion.

  121. G.A.Branigan Says:

    2015 natoty = 2015 Colorado Diesel.An all new inovative diesel midsize pickup truck.

  122. GaryPaul Says:

    Well this is off the topics rolling around here tonight but heck–if we’re all chatting about health care, then perhaps we can move back to the topic of autos and the auto industry. Did anyone see the puff piece by the Detroit Free Press today on GM CEO Barra?
    [Tom Walsh: Barra fever a better vibe than the ghost of 2009]

    Here is a response to that pathetic drivel…
    Response to Free Press Puff Piece on Mary Barra 1-14-14

    Wow. Talk about a puff piece. No reasonably knowledgeable reporter would place such drivel in front of the public unless they valued their job and didn’t want to be fired by their bosses for telling the truth…—Or could it be they actually believe that Barra is a saint sent to this position by means of her ridiculously exaggerated “car guy” abilities? It is pathetic that all the rah rah rah for this new CEO comes from a Detroit newspaper that should indeed be knowledgeable about the auto industry instead of simply reflecting the press releases coming from GM. But how can the Free Press be honest when its own reporting staff usually doesn’t do much but absorb the input presented to them from any automaker?

    GM has some good product out now and more coming but it did not flow from empty suits like Barra. The best thing that this CEO can do is stay away from the product development process that was really just getting started when the great recession struck and is now starting to show some capabilities with fresh product that is truly competitive (Corvette, CTS, Chevy SS, Impala, etc.)–as well as a few product screw ups! Lutz (a truly talented executive), as former head of GM’s Global Product Development really helped resolve a lot of the concerns that were keeping solid products from flowing out of the pipeline back in the late 00’s. This semi-renaissance was cut short by the great recession and the financial mismanagement of GM under Rick Wagoner, a man who lied (see Detroit News Front Page headlines, July 11, 2008 for example trumpeting that GM’s financial capability) to the public, the stockholders, and customers by endorsing GM’s sturdy financial health during 2008 as the company slid into bankruptcy. Wagoner was a nice guy but the WRONG MAN to fix the GM Titanic and should have been thrown out long before 08 so a more capable CEO could have taken over and moved into emergency mode.

    And Barra is the WRONG CEO choice to lead GM. The thrill over Mary Barra is a reflection of the GM public relations and marketing team combined with an unbelievably naive news media that once again parrots the idea that the GM board was GM dandy in rubber stamping this choice. Thus it is clear that the Free Press often doesn’t have the resources, reporters, or analysts with enough experience & honesty to truly assess who this person is and avoid being led around by the nose. The idea that the CEO is a now “a woman” is being trumpeted again and again more than whether or not this woman is the correct choice for GM’s next CEO! It’s politics and media bias for endless female worship that is now running the show.

    And don’t forget to check out all the rest of the drivel thrown about by the media regarding the Detroit Auto Show (oops–I meant the NAIAS–North American International Auto Show–I don’t want to offend anyone by using the word “Detroit”). Why? For laughs! Come on! For example: Yet another article today in the Free Press comments on the amazing intelligence of the girls standing in front of the cars and trucks. [Mike Thompson: These aren't your father's auto show models] I got news for you… The same articles were here last year and other years in the past with endless praise for women who came from rapid training courses to learn “all about autos.” And yes I have spoken to these girls and you know what? Most are not too bright if you go beyond the surface–but then the new modern man hardly knows a thing about cars now days as well. What’s really needed is to replace these girls with men (yes I mean males) dressed in white coats like doctors and who know how to speak with authority about these products and back it up. Automakers especially from Detroit need to project an image of authority and technical knowledge about their products expressed with confidence and a friendly attitude. It would take a lot more time and energy to train these men but that’s the whole idea–and hey–why not seek out men who already know the product and know how to speak!–what an idea. And why not mainly men instead of women? These vehicle lines need masculine authority figures explaining the wares and … how is that more biased then a raft of women?

  123. C-Tech Says:

    So Gary, what’s holding you back? Tell us what you really think!

  124. Kit Gerhart Says:

    122, What, exactly, are your qualifications to be so sure that Mary Barra is incompetent? Maybe she is, but she hasn’t been there long enough for anyone to know, one way or the other.

    The car companies have women for the displays for the same reason there are a lot of female bartenders. The car companies figure girls would generate interest from the predominantly heterosexual males that go the the car show. That’s also the reason NFL teams have female cheer leaders. People don’t go to car shows to learn the technical details of the new products. You go there to see what they look like, and learn the details elsewhere.

  125. HtG Says:

    Wasn’t today Elvis’ last day in the building? I hope Mary B. makes a path for GM to crush it.

  126. 97Sentra Says:

    Wait a minute – the most exciting car show is going on in Detroit, something we have been looking forward to like kids look forward to Christmas, and all we talk about is healthcare? Are you guys kidding me?

  127. T. Bejma Says:

    Mary is the perfect LEADER for GM right now. Enough “Car Guy” sense to know what we need, even more “Bean Counter” sense to know what it takes and the best of all… the “People Power” to take advantage of the [PDL phrased] “True Believers” that toil in the trenches everyday to truly make the BEST VEHICLES IN THE WORLD! This is a GREAT company to work for at a very good time. I am very Blessed and Thankful everyday that my path in life has allowed me to end up here at GM. ;-)