AD #1477 – Cadillac Confirms CT8/9, Porsche Admits Panamera Is Ugly, Kia’s Image Problem

October 13th, 2014 at 11:37am

Runtime: 6:29

- Tesla Wants More Outsourcing
- NAFTA to Hit 20 Million Car Sales
- Cadillac Confirms CT8/9
- Kia’s Perception Problem
- Porsche Admits Panamera Is Ugly
- Details About Ford’s New 2.7l EcoBoost Engine

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54 Comments to “AD #1477 – Cadillac Confirms CT8/9, Porsche Admits Panamera Is Ugly, Kia’s Image Problem”

  1. Brett Says:

    I presume that different coefficients of expansion between the two parts of that engine are not an issue as it’s not a joint that needs to seal high pressures.

  2. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Can’t help to think that the 2.7 Ecoboost, even though it is a stout engine, is going to be stressed in a 5,000 pound vehicle. It might work for the family pickup but I’m thinking the heavier duty user is going to pick the V-8. Good to have the choice (I suppose) but that turbo is going to be in use a lot of the time (even for the casual pickup user). EPA numbers haven’t been released but it might be the same story (as with the 3.5 Ecoboost), they won’t be achievable in the real world; I guess we’ll see.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Maybe KIA should drop all of their cars, except the Soul. Does Hyundai really need KIA any more than Ford needed Mercury?

  4. G.A.Branigan Says:

    If the Soul is indicative of their build quality,I would buy a pickup made by Kia in a heartbeat.

  5. donfromnaples Says:

    ALG’s study is hardly hard scientific evidence. It is opinion only. And what demographic of our population was polled? ALG was purchased by TrueCar in 2011. TrueCar accepts automotive advertising which of course will influence advertised prices and “perceptions”. If Kia were doing so badly based on consumer perceptions as indicated in this article, then how is it that Kia sales have skyrocketed during the past 3 model years? In other words, take such perception results with a grain a salt just as needed when reviewing “data” presented by Consumer Reports. Biases exist.

  6. Mike Nassour Says:

    Part of the issue with Kia, at least in my part of the country, is the dealership network. One is the home of high-pressure, over the top advertising, another can’t keep anything desirable in stock, the the third is, well, simply DIRTY.

    I don’t know if Kia is so desperate that it depends on operations such as these, but I can’t imagine going to any of these places for the K900 or equivalent.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5, Is there any reason to doubt that peoples’ “perceptions” are real? People just don’t know what KIA is.

    As far as dealers, in my area in Florida, they have a much more convenient location than Ford, Chevy, or Honda. The KIA place is small, though, and decidedly unimpressive.

    The last I heard, Soul was KIA’s best selling product, and justifiable so. It is practical, a good value, and “cute” in sort of the way the first generation Scion xB was cute.

  8. pedro fernandez Says:

    I know a couple of folks who have bought Optima and Sorrento models and have been very pleased with their vehicles, I rode the Optima and was impressed with how well-built and solid it felt, ditto for the Cadenza I tested out last yr,it’s too bad people still remember those tinny, econoboxes they used to build and sell here many moons ago.

  9. HtG Says:

    Is Porsche trying to say that the new Boxster isn’t even a little bit awkward? Hello Mom Jeans beltline!

    Kia Soul, there’s a smart looker. Hi G.A.

  10. Chuck Says:

    #9, Awkward?? Keep your Aztek, please.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It looks like Optima is now the best selling KIA, with Soul a close second.

    My first exposure to a Kia was a friend’s Ford Aspire. It was a very basic econobox, but it was reliable for the ~80K miles that he had it.

  12. MJB Says:

    I, for one, have always liked the Panamera. And not just from a distance. I wouldn’t mind actually owning one.

    Side story: A couple of years back I walked into a local Land Rover dealer only to watch one of our star Detroit Red Wing players exited the place to jump back into his triple-black Panamera Turbo with limo tinted windows. I’m not a hockey fan at all, so I had no idea who he was. But the salesperson that just helped him clued me in.

  13. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Hi HtG,my wife bought a new Soul earlier this year and she loves it.As far as quality goes,it blows the crv she had right out of the water,(road??).very well built,and as solid as granite.Handles great too on our twisty-turny mountain roads.In truth,it’s even quieter then my 12 nox ltz….whodda thunk it.

  14. HtG Says:

    10 that’s right, Chuck.

    btw, it’s a Chrysler 300 these days. In black.

    Say my name

  15. HtG Says:

    How many Macans will Porsche have to sell before they admit it’s generic CUV looking without the brand badges?

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Apparently the Macan drives really well, for a CUV. Between the badges and the way it drives, it should appeal to both types of Porsche buyers, and should sell well.

  17. Bradley Says:

    I have struggled with understanding KIA..and the overlap with Hyundai.

    Do both brands exist in most markets? So much product overlap…

    I like the styling of most KIAs, but the name does nothing for me. Hyundai doesn’t turn my head too often.

    Now, my interest and attitude towards both KIA and Hyundai would change if they offered a true compact truck.

  18. pedro fernandez Says:

    Pontiac, Buick, Olds, Chevy for decades selling basically the same cars with slight differences, so what’s new?

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17, Hyundai and KIA compete directly with each other in most markets.
    Sonata = Optima
    Elantra = Forte
    Tucson = Sportage
    Accent = Rio

    The two versions have some styling differences, inside and out, but are very similar.

    There is no Hyundai version of Soul, and maybe no KIA version of Equis, but most of the products have “twins” of both brands.

  20. HtG Says:


    So today an SUV put his whole carcass across the double yellow on a tight blind turn. Right in front of me.

    In this instance, I am still the psychopath because I feinted at him. Didn’t even phase the POS.

    people in their cargo-container-cars are just too lazy to drive these days. I’m just glad no one hears me cursing.

  21. pedro fernandez Says:

    #19 Kit, isn’t the K900 based on the Equus? The one that has no double in the US is the Genesis

  22. Bradley Says:



  23. Brett Says:

    I think that Kia is supposed to be the “sporty” brand and Hyundai is supposed to be the “bread & butter” line. Kia is sort of Pontiac to Hyundai’s Oldsmobile. Don’t ask me where the Genesis or Equus fit in, however. :)

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21, Yeah, that sounds right. The KIA place near me doesn’t seem the sort of place you’d want to buy a car like that.

  25. pedro fernandez Says:

    Yep, like getting a $10 burger at McDonald’s.

  26. cwolf Says:

    I don’t know what to think about Hyu./Kia. On one hand they made the top 10 in J.D.Powers initia satisfaction. On the other, used Hyu./Kia’s sell for a song around here. My dealer friends in Toledo say they don’t care to have them on the lot unless they are bought right. Isn’t it rather odd to see dealer ads advertising buy one get one free? Maybe it would be wise to drive a used Kia before buying a new one!; Perhaps you’ll have second thoughts…if’n yer smart.

  27. Chuck Says:

    No Cadillac CT8-9 or Panamera remarks today?

  28. cwolf Says:

    I agree with John Mc., the ugly in the Panamera is along the roof line. Perhaps it would look better if the curve of the rear glass didn’t follow the roof line. Then again, I see no pleasure in a four door Porsche.

  29. HtG Says:

    28 Chinese arrivistes sit in the back seat, communicating their wealth and pretige. Also, former Porsche boss Wendelin Wiedeking was really tall, and insisted the car fit him. I thought everybody knew that. ;)

    ps Anybody else noticing more cars are being designed for China, not US? Like that big grill on the Audis? #lovinit

  30. HtG Says:

    I think the NY metropolitan area has reached peak Audi.

    So boring it hurts

  31. donfromnaples Says:

    Hey Pedro,

    I guess it depends on the McDonald’s you go to.

  32. Carroll E. Gant, JR. Says:

    Ecoboost is crap but Turbo charging. So diden’t Ford call it what it really is like everyone else. Crazy to me.

  33. Bradley Says:

    Porsche…not my problem. I am not part of the demographic that can afford those.

    Caddy…I heard yet another we’ll give you this in X number of years.

    GM is always cashing-in on headlines long before the product is even real.

    Look at all the headlines GM took about the new Mid-Size trucks…and just when they were going to roll out…stop the press…safety issue.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32, All car companies start talking about their new products years in advance. How long have we been hearing about the new lighter, smaller Mustang that didn’t even turn out lighter and smaller. It does have IRS, though, and early reports are positive.

  35. pedro fernandez Says:

    Location, location, but the food is the same, right? I suppose if they opened one up in Cuba, they could get $10 for a Big Mac, poor souls there don’t know any better. cwolf, I know at least 3 folks who own Elantras and are very happy with their vehicles, the other day I met a family who’s got 3 of them. Gonna check resale values around here.

  36. donfromnaples Says:

    #7. Hi Kit,

    Yes, I doubt that people’s perceptions are not real when it comes to data to support sales. People’s perceptions are shapely largely by advertising which now include all news stations except maybe NPR. Also, selection of the survey population is highly influential. I think most Americans know what KIA is.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I just checked some lists of fast depreciating cars, and not many H/K’s were on the lists. Very expensive cars dominate the “price no object” lists, with VW Pheaton, Maybach, Bentley sedans, AMG Benzes, etc. dominating. Of mainstream vehicles, rental fleet queens, like Sebring/200 and pre-2014 Impala were there, along with substandard and/or unpopular products from various companies. I saw Nissan Armada on at least two lists, along with Jeep Patriot.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    35, Most Americans have heard of KIA, but a lot of people I know, even “car people,” would probably have a hard time naming more than one or two KIA products.

  39. Kate McLeod Says:

    If Kia perception is that bad and their sales have increased–no, wait, skyrocketed–480 percent in 7 years, bring it on. I’m not buyin’ it. That it ranked behind the Smart brand? Seriously. Who could believe this? The hamsters are the greatest things to happen to auto advertising since “Small Wonder.” And Kia ranked just ahead of Suzuki?–someone who was doing the spreadsheet at ALG was on something. Let’s see what was Suzuki’s advertising? Oh, yeah, the motorized couch. Actually, that was kind of great but it didn’t sell cars so their out of business in the U.S., unlike the skyrocketing, badly perceived Kia. Gimme a break.

  40. pedro fernandez Says:

    I checked on Autotrader and Corolla and Civic models from the 2003 to 08 models years sell for a bit more than Hyundai Elantra, but the diff is not that much. IMO you should buy a used Hyundai while it still has some warranty left over.

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38, KIA have had big percentage gains, but still have only about 4% market share, with 9 products in the US market.

    Perception is perception, i.e. how people PERCEIVE the brand, not how “good” the products are, and maybe the 96 per cent who don’t buy KIA’s don’t think that much of the KIA brand. Those who don’t like the results of that survey can do their own survey, and as always, the wording of surveys can affect results.

  42. pedro fernandez Says:

    To most folks you ask, mechanics included, will still think Kia vehicles are inferior to their competitors, despite their recent improvements, as the saying goes, beauty is only skin deep.

  43. donfromnaples Says:


    Perception sells cars. Sales have increase 14% to over a half a million US sales. That measily 4% outsells VW believe or not. So, don’t drink the Kool Aid every time an advertised car survey comes out.

    P.S. I enjoy reading your comments here at Autoline.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If I were ranking all of the car brands in the US market, I’d put KIA near the bottom, not because I think their current cars are crap, but because only one of them, Soul, would come even close to being on my shopping list vs the competition.

  45. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42, Yep, VW does horribly in the US, partly because of the reputation of poor reliability, and probably partly because of the sparse dealer network. Still, I’d rank the VW “brand” above KIA because I like some of the products, especially Golf, Jetta wagon, and Passat TDI.

  46. XA351GT Says:

    Anyone on here that is a fan of Road Racing ,go to youtube and check out the highlights of this past weekends Bathurst 1000. Wow it had everything including a insane last 2 lap duel for the win.

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    45, What will happen to that race, with all of the cars ceasing production? Will they change the rules, or allow “old” cars for a while?

  48. HtG Says:

    Mercedes has to love this. They win the F1 Constructors Championship for the first time, and neither Autoline nor AutoExtremist give a…. DeLorenzo actually covers racing every week(the nonsense nobody pays any attention to), but he won’t even turn up a finger for F1. Automotive News also passed.

    Not a lot of free media here for Daimler.

  49. Chuck Says:

    If it ain’t NASCAR, it ain’t racing, Bubba. Reminds me of the old joke about going to a fight and then a hockey game broke out. MB will get its laurels where it counts…SALES.

  50. C-Tech Says:

    @ #38 Kia sales did not skyrocket 480%, the value of the brand has increased 480% Value is a somewhat subjective thing as it really depends on what you can get someone (or corporation) to actually pay for it. See Florida or Arizona housing.

  51. XA351GT Says:

    Kit , I haven’t heard for sure. Ford may pull out of the sport totally after 15 . I have heard though there may be major changes coming that would allow Mustangs, Camaros and other 2 door sport coupes to run . Time will tell.

  52. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Since the CT6 is being supplanted by the CT8/9, and has been described as about 1.5″ longer than the XTS but lighter than the current CTS, I’m wondering what price strategy Cadillac will employ. Since it isn’t the ‘flagship’ (most were anticipating), I hope Cadillac ‘reels’ in the pricing to more reflect a volume vehicle (cause it’s time to get the word out to more people of how good these new Cadillacs are), which should garner some conquest sales. Also alluded; the CT6 may offer a hybrid version.

  53. HtG Says:

    The new ATS coupe seems to be priced competitively with the Audi A5.

  54. Marshall Says:

    I wish you’d return to your previous page format. I can’t get the ‘Show transcript’ link to work and have tried two different browsers. Why change in the first place?