AD #1507 – Infiniti Concept Wins Award, F-150 MPG Falls Short, Tesla & BMW in Talks
November 24th, 2014 at 11:56am
Runtime: 7:02
- Ford F-150 MPG Falls Short
- Tesla & BMW in Talks
- Used Car Prices to Soften
- Audi to Launch Mobility Service in U.S.
- Wild & Crazy Concepts
- IndyCar’s New Aero Kits
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Ford’s F-150 fuel economy ratings come in lower than expected, Tesla and BMW are teaming up, and IndyCars will get more liberal aerodynamic rules than Formula One. All that and more coming right up on Autoline Daily.
This is Autoline Daily for November 24th, 2014.
F-150 MPG FALLS SHORT
Ford just put out its much-awaited fuel economy numbers for the new F-150. Depending on the powertrain, the truck delivers 5% to 29% better fuel economy than the outgoing model. That sounds impressive. But when you compare that to its main competitors, you’ve got to wonder what all the hype about dropping 700 pounds was all about. Ford is not the class leader. In fact, Ram’s non-turbo V6 is 3 miles-per-gallon better than the 3.5L non-turbo V6 in the F-150 and the V8 in the Silverado bests the Ford 5.0L V8 by 1-mpg overall. Of course there are other engine options for the new F-150 but when you look at these comparisons it doesn’t seem like that lightweight body gave Ford any advantage.
TESLA & BMW IN TALKS
Tesla provides batteries to Daimler for the electric versions of the Mercedes B-Class and smart cars. But in an interview with Germany’s Der Spiegel, Elon Musk says now he’s talking with BMW. They’re especially interested in discussing charging stations, but BMW is reportedly interested in Tesla’s battery technology while Tesla is interested in BMW’s carbon fiber technology. Nothing is official yet but teaming up to grow EV sales sure makes sense.
Still to come, why you’re going to pay less if you’re in the market for a used car. Audi is going to make a major announcement in 60 days. And some of the wildest looking concept cars you ever did see!
USED CAR PRICES TO SOFTEN
Ever since the Great Recession hit in 2008, used car prices started going up in the American market. In fact, they’re up 20% since then. It was mainly caused by a shortage of good used cars. As new car sales crashed, the pipeline to used cars started to dry up. But with car sales running strong over the last three years, the pipeline is filling up, and Ward’s reports that used car prices will continue to go up, but at a much lower rate.
I’LL TAKE THREE
In the next 60 days Audi is going to announce two pilot programs in mobility services in the United States. In an interview at the LA auto show, Rupert Stadler, the CEO of Audi, told Autoline Daily that the company is studying which markets it wants to launch the programs. One program, mirroring a pilot program in Europe called Audi Select, will offer customers 3 different vehicles as part of their lease. The cars may not be brand new, but could be service loaners. Many automakers are starting to experiment in providing mobility services and we can’t wait to hear more details of what Audi is going to announce.
WILD & CRAZY CONCEPTS
This year’s LA show was host to the 11th annual Los Angeles Auto Show Design Challenge that saw Infiniti’s SYNAPTIQ take home the top prize. But after being at the show, I felt that from a design perspective GM’s Chaparral concept was much better looking. Neither of these cars will ever go into production, but it’s cool to see automakers coming out with wild dream cars–something you don’t see very often these days.
IndyCars are made by the same manufacturer and look exactly the same, except for their colors and graphics. Not next year. We’re going to see some pretty dramatic differences. Coming up next, we’ll talk about those changes.
INDYCAR’S NEW AERO KITS
On last week’s Autoline After Hours, I visited Honda Performance Development, which is responsible for the company’s racing efforts in the U.S., including creating new aero kits for next year’s IndyCars. In the following clip, Steve Eriksen the head of HPD, explains what that is all about.
(The AAH preview is only available in the video version of today’s show.)
As you F1 fans know, Lewis Hamilton won the 2014 driver’s championship yesterday in the final race of the season. By the way, Steve Eriksen says that next year IndyCar will have more liberal rules than Formula One for the aerodynamic design of front wings. You can watch that entire interview on our website right now, or even on our Youtube channel.
And that wraps up today’s report, thanks for watching.
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Comments (40)
November 24th, 2014 at 12:08 pm
I wasn’t surprised by ford’s not impressive mpg numbers for the new f150′s.They will eventually see the light…..diesel light that is.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:11 pm
Your comments about Ford missing the MPG mark must be very disappointing in Dearborn. People do buy trucks for multiple reasons and purposes; It is not all about MPG. That said, fleet buyers have their spreadsheets humming and they won’t like these numbers at all.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Aerodynamics are great for efficiencies, both speed and handling (even fuel economy), but I hope with future design parameters that interferences to the other race cars (whether F1, Indy, NASCAR, etc.) can be reduced (or equalized) in order to have better racing (so the lead car doesn’t get an almost insurmountable advantage by being upfront). It helped ruin NASCAR IMO and I’m sure effects most other high speed racing.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:20 pm
Regarding the F150 look at the whole picture. yes, fleet buyers will have their spreadsheets churning and seeing that an F150 with the non-turbo V6 has 1900 lbs payload, the Ram non-turbo V6 is 1500 lbs payload. Automakers have to strike a balance all MPG = no capabilities, ie Prius.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
Re – trucks, we once again see that there are no magic bullets when it comes to truck mileage. Trucks seems to require a certain amount of energy to accelerate and or maintain and that isn’t going to change, where’s that fabled magic 100mpg carburetor when you need it.
Disels help but then you have the problems that come with them.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
4, Prius having no capability? You’ve got to be kidding. It carries 4 people reasonably comfortably, and will carry 5 if they are not too big. With the back seat folded down, it has a longer load floor than many, or most of the smaller crossovers. Meanwhile, under most driving conditions, it uses half as much gas as those crossovers, and uses about a third as much under severe stop-and-go driving.
As far as pickups, to most buyers, the 1900 pound vs 1500 pound payload makes no difference at all, since most pickups carry zero payload most of the time.
For fleets, the engine choice will depend on the usage, but I suspect big fleet buyers will stay away from the 2.7 turbo in the F-150 for light duty use, and will go for the NA 3.5, or the V8.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:51 pm
Looks like the new Colorado/Canyon twins would be a slam dunk with a small diesel. Why aren’t we seeing one? Maybe it would cannibalize the big boys’ sales?
November 24th, 2014 at 12:56 pm
…Makes you wonder what type of mpg gains we’d see with an aluminum light body on that RAM.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:10 pm
For trucks to get better mpg they need to be more aerodynamic, which seems to be in direct conflict with what the public wants a truck to look like… apparently we like them to look like jumbo bricks, and that’s just about how aerodynamic they are.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:13 pm
We’ll have to wait and see the actual weights of various configurations of the new F-150. Those “700 pounds lighter” claims were in regard to the heaviest version, a crew cab, vs the old F-150. The old F-150 happens to be about 300 pounds heavier than the Chevy, so the new one should be about 400 pounds lighter. That is for the crew cab. The difference will be smaller for the other body styles.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
Commenting on the Tweel from yesterday’s show:
It’s nice that John Deere is going to be offering those Tweels on an upcoming model. I’m certain Michelin and J.D. have a non-compete clause preventing Michelin from offering the tweel via any other outlets during the first year of production, but I’d sure like to be able to pick up a set of those at my local Home Depot to put on my Cub Cadet right now.
Snow (and ice) between the spokes would be a concern when using ones tractor for plowing the driveway, as some people already pointed out. But I would imagine an ‘all season’ version would simply have CV boot-like baffles sealing both ends.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:27 pm
@ #7: The gm midsize twins will have a 2.8L diesel available as an option in the 2016my.Why they wanted to wait ayear is beyond me.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:35 pm
Prius seems to be the bull’s eye for criticism by all those who think a vehicle to be worth anything has to be American and use up fuel as if it will never run out and will continue to be reasonably cheap.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:37 pm
12, Either it “isn’t ready” yet, or they might be saving it with the idea of getting a second sales boost after the initial spurt subsides. Car companies do things like that all the time.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:47 pm
#12 – It makes sense to delay features on new vehicles. GM will likely be able to sell every mid-size PU they can build for the 2015 MY, so holding back an option that will create new demand in 2016 is just good marketing and allows GM to put off development and production investment until needed to fill orders. Likewise, the ZR2 “concept” they showed off at the LA Auto Show will boost demand in 2016 (or whenever it is rolled out).
November 24th, 2014 at 1:49 pm
No Toyota on the MPG Truck list.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:50 pm
F150 mileage
Here’s my cynical autolunchline comment. Did Ford planners envisage making mileage figures for the aluminum truck just like they had been doing for their other cars? Remember how their claims had to be adjusted? Well maybe today’s unremarkable figures are the result of the current more realistic testing procedure.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:00 pm
16, Toyota would be quite embarrassed. The best version of Tundra for 2015 is the 4.6 V8, 2wd, which gets 15/19 and 16 mpg combined. There was a 4.0 V6 in 2014 model year, but it only got 16/20, and 17 combined.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35679&id=35680&id=35682&id=34249
November 24th, 2014 at 2:10 pm
17, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they have decided that it would be better to have more customers satisfied with the mileage they are getting, relative to the ratings, than to have unrealistic ratings and get embarrassed about it as with the C-Max.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:16 pm
#18
Roger That, I still would have included them.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:29 pm
As “Shame” and “Embarrassment” hold more weight in Japan.
We Americans have lost the value in “shame” and “embarrassment”.
At least that is my understanding.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:40 pm
If you go to the show transcript and click on the Ford headline the Toyota’s are listed in the Ford data (they don’t really compete, fuel wise, but if you really look at the data most of the numbers are within 10% so people are still going to pick their ‘pickups’ from preference, not specifications). Ford also lists trailer capability and load range from them and their competition. No ‘slam-dunk’ by any means, and Kit is correct in stating that the Ford’s 700 lb reduction is coming from the heaviest of the fleet (to begin with), so net difference, is sometimes 3 to 4 hundred pounds (again about ten percent).
November 24th, 2014 at 2:44 pm
20, If Toyota wants to increase market share with the Tundra, I’d think they would need to be competitive in mpg. Maybe they are happy with the current sales numbers of the Tundra (and Tacoma), and are content to “build what they are building” and let them sell as they will.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:55 pm
In CR’s mpg test at a steady 65 mph, all of the big pickups were pretty close, except the Ram 1500 diesel which did much better. The gas ones ranged from 20 (Toyota) to 23 (Chevy), both V8′s, with the Ford 3.5 turbo in between at 22. The Ram V8 got 21, and the diesel got 27. All of the gas ones got 10-11 in CR’s rather severe “city” test.
Sorry about all the numbers, but when it gets to reality, if someone is buying one of these big, and pricey trucks, they should just buy what they like, and not worry too much about mpg.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:19 pm
@ Kit: I’m sure many pu buyers go with what they want,not really what they need,and more and more now the mpg’s are starting to phase the buyers.Ram was the first in several gens to reintroduce a modern small clean diesel,soon to be followed with the new gm twins.Nissan will have the all new frontier with a diesel option as well as an all new titan also with a diesel option.It won’t be long before the team at ford and chevy,(gm)will follow suit.They really won’t have much choice,imho.Over stuffing small gassers is not a good row to hoe in the long run.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:23 pm
Despite milage numbers, the die-hard Ford guys around here say they like the new one even more! The reason: They say they handle better perhaps due to a lower center of gravity. The contractors lean towards the 6 or V8, but the few with the small turbo seem most satisfied.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:32 pm
I forgot to mension one thing I noticed about the hand full of new Fords the contractors recieved. Every one of these trucks will have added to them the steal tool boxes and racks from the old trucks that have been replaced. I wonder if these guys will be as giddy once all this weight is added to them?
November 24th, 2014 at 4:30 pm
25,
The new Ram 1500 diesel is selling well, and it will be interesting to see how the diesels do when there are more of them on the market, and the Dodge won’t be the “only game in town.”
When you do a reality check, they won’t make sense for many people. The EPA combine mileage of the Ram diesel and a gas V6 F-150 or Silverado are only 3 mpg apart, at 23 and 20. The V8 Chevy gets 19. In CR’s tests, the gap widens a little. Still, the diesel fuel costs a lot more money; in my area, it usually costs from 15-20% more than regular gas, nearly negating the savings in fuel cost, and you pay a lot extra for the diesel engine.
Still, people “like” diesels, and if you don’t like they sound of engines revving, they are generally lower rpm engines than similar size gas engines.
November 24th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
27, I don’t think I’ve seen a new Ford pickup yet. Are they at the dealers?
November 24th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
GM may also realize that they are not capable of meeting the demand for a diesel mid-size truck at roll-out. Also, a year of sales will allow them to better judge needed production capacity for the diesel engine plant.
November 24th, 2014 at 4:57 pm
Kit, I haven’t seen any new Ford trucks on the lots either. The handful I know of were ordered long ago.
From the pics, I like the looks of the WV diesel wagons that are coming. As for the new Prius, I’m not nuts about the new front end…from the pictures. The Japanese seem to be following the same concept, as far as front ends go.
November 24th, 2014 at 5:02 pm
29+31=holy moly
Kit, my local Ford dealer has ordered a pair of 2015 F150 trucks. They’re not in yet, but Jeevus are they loaded. Do peeps in this price range care about gas mileage?
http://www.smith-cairns.com/new-inventory/details?lang=en&make=Ford&zipcode=10704&vehicle_type=truck&year=2015&year=2014&year=2013&models=SuperDuty&models=Transit+Connect&models=Transit+VanWagon&models=F-150&models=Econoline+Wagon&sort_by=price_desc&view=list&vin=1FTEW1EF3FFA07943&index=1&count=60&offset=0&limit=1
November 24th, 2014 at 5:12 pm
keeping score
This dealer has also ordered 3 Mustangs. The prices will range from 44-48K, two sticks, all 5L V8 motors. Yipes, if you must be the first on the block.
http://www.smith-cairns.com/new-inventory/?vehicle_type=car
November 24th, 2014 at 7:01 pm
32, 33
Holy crap, especially the Mustangs. A zero option Corvette is starting to look like a bargain, considering a zero option ‘Vette has everything I’d want, and then some. I thought it would take a Shelby GT500, or whatever they will call it, to get to near $50K.
November 24th, 2014 at 7:06 pm
Facing reality, though, I’m still having fun with my oldish Corvette, with less than 20% as much wrapped up in it as a new ‘Vette or loaded Mustang.
November 24th, 2014 at 7:31 pm
Kit hang on to that Vette and use your hard earned money wiser, like cruising and such!
November 24th, 2014 at 7:59 pm
Pedro, I’m sure you are right.
November 25th, 2014 at 1:09 am
Perhaps GM could offer the Chapperral as a kit car? Pleeeeze!
Welcome back Kit.
Ford better find a silver lining to these trucks pronto.
You got me, Htg
November 25th, 2014 at 8:14 am
38, The Ford faithful will buy the trucks, no matter what. If serious problems arise with them, it could hurt sales, but that would surprise me. I expect the trucks to be good, likely best-in-class regarding how they drive, but I’ll be surprised if they are so wonderful that they are a major game changer. The aluminum A8 hasn’t forced M-B into aluminizing the S-class.
November 25th, 2014 at 1:39 pm
AS far as Ford trucks are concerned, I beleive they will still sell! Look at the 6.0 L and 6.4 L Diesel that Ford made. They were terrible! No reliability with many many problems, and thousands of Buy Backs, yet Ford Truck buyers continue to purchase Ford Trucks