AAH #5 – Perfect Apologists

April 30th, 2009 at 11:54pm


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Well, here it is folks, the one you’ll either love, hate or love to hate. John McElroy and “After Hours” regulars Peter De Lorenzo of AutoExtremist.com and gonzo PR ace Jason Vines are joined by Robert Farago, Publisher of The Truth About Cars, to discuss the automotive week that was. Chrysler’s Bankruptcy is announced by the President of the United States and Pontiac is no more. Robert Farago and the After Hours crew debate the merits of saving the Detroit automakers. Plus, we answer a few of your questions in our new “Rapid Fire” segment.

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49 Comments to “AAH #5 – Perfect Apologists”

  1. Jim France Says:

    Worst AAH ever! If you brought this guy on to show the magnitude of the anti Detroit sentiment that exists consider it mission accomplished. His point of view and level of disrespect has me so wound up I am finding it very difficult to sleep tonight. I am very much looking forward to a much better AAH next week.

    JF
    Janesville, WI

  2. craigerzgt Says:

    I have a feeling that John owes Peter a beer for coming onto the show today, and he owes Jason two beers for trying to make something productive of the episode itself. It’s not that I’m opposed to someone that has different ideas that myself, the Autoline crew, and the other viewers have, but more that I think Robert’s personal rampages and overbearing shouting matches brought a distasteful character to the show. It just wasn’t “Autoline: After Hours”, but more of “3 Automotive Experts versus The Village Idiot”. I plead with you John, and to your producer, because I saw that the viewer count went from the typical 300 viewers to nearly 600 at the end, PLEASE do not let this become the norm of Autoline: AH, as it would destroy the fantastic unique thing that you created.

    I’ll add though that I liked Jason Vines’ nickname for Ken Lewenza as “Influenza”. Great line Jason!

  3. brant rice Says:

    I agree, DO NOT make today’s series of tirades the new After Hours format. I like the fact that the three of you are apologists for the industry. Apologist is not a dirty word. I want to have a historic and proud view of the industry that made America great. I want to hear how the veterans of so many years see the future. But, I want it in a civilized format. Your guest was rude and loud from word up. I love my 2009 Dodge product. I want to know how this great car will survive the changes.

    I want to say thanks to John for trying to get things on the subject and off the pi**ing matches. John is right, the American government has bought into saving the industry, and now we’d like to hear how we wind this out, not how wrong we are.

    Many industries (banking, insurance,and auto) are so big no one could support letting the whole system die to satify the pure Capitalist out there. Maybe in a perfect world, we would all just suffer for ten years and wait for the next world war to pull us out, like after the real great depression. This time our government said the ten years of pain were not worth it, when there is a small very rich group that is there thanks to where we are today.

  4. Derek V. Says:

    John,

    With Chrysler bankrupt, do you see them coming out in the form of a GM’esc company where the Chrysler name stays only as the parent company name and all the Chrysler badges and dealerships flip to FIAT? It would address all the points you and your guests have been making all week regarding PR issues related to a company name also being a brand. I can see all Chrysler models being dropped except the minivan, Dodge surviving as a Utility maker (head to head with GMC), Jeep staying Jeep, and Fiat coming back to the states.

    Two things on FIAT.
    a.) I think the US can look past FIAT’s history in the US given the wealth of information people have available today.
    b.) FIAT has to assume that most Americans will likely retain the general image of FIAT as being a small and mid-sized manufacturer. So they need to steer clear of trying to inject Chrysler would-be products into their line up. The only exception to this being the minivan – something they can take world-wide, especially if they fill those sto-n-go compartments with batteries.

    John, you do an excellent job bringing things back into perspective.

    P.S. Robert Farago sure does whine a lot and disrupts to an intellectual debate more than contribute. After listening to After Hours tonight, Robert should tax HIS tax dollars to Mexico.
    :-)

  5. b wandrey Says:

    This evenings webcast was far from informative or entertaining. It was more like a Jerry Springer episode. Robert Farago (heir apparent to the Massengill fortune) wasted your time and mine.
    There were so many important things discuss. Next week please have someone knowledgeable, who will add to conversation constructively.

  6. Philip Says:

    I also agree, I was somewhat disappointed tonight with the show as the battle of wits (one sided as it was) did detract from a normally informative and above all entertaining show, I think Robert could be OK as a sounding board/devils adv.. BUT if he would watch this show he would see what we most likely think of him… calm down and talk about the issues that actually exist and not just spew the same retoric over and over again…we all want to see a discussion about what we hold dear and not a pissing contest that Robert started but could not himself see!
    Full credit to John; you were a model host and did all that could be done given the reaction your regualrs and guest had as soon as the wislte blew. PS: I have a greater respect for your ALAH regulars opinions now as a result.

  7. Disappointed Says:

    Let me add my disappointment with the way this episode turned out.

    Autoline After Hours is a recent find for me, a pleasant assembly of cognoscenti. Love it.

    I also frequent TTAC, and put up with the uninformed haters of the Big 3 in return for access to interesting auto news that the MSM misses.

    On TTAC, I find RF to be a rather solid writer.

    How did so many interesting voices fail to have an adult discussion?

    A loss for all.

  8. johannes g Says:

    Hm. This confirms my (humble) opinion about the BMW crowd but really – with so much important stuff going on, why waste an hour of your, and our, lives with this fool?

  9. Nick Says:

    Robert Farago see’s in only black and white, an industry and world that is as vivid as anything imaginable. To see this situation clearly you need to have background, experience and education that he sorely lacks.

    Please keep the guests knowledgeable in the future, they can have Farago’s point of view, but have them able to construct rational arguments.

  10. Jacob Says:

    Robert is why I hate TTAC website.

  11. Eric Says:

    I read Farago’s site, and it’s a pretty good. However, it’s gotten pretty one-sided over the last 6 months or so to the point of incredulity. He’s got a base of fanboys that stroke his ego in the comments section, but watch out if you have an opposing point of view. You get a nasty email and threats of bans. And yet, he’s on here giving Peter a hard time about not having comments. Frankly, he comes off here as a petulent child, and ruins what little credibility he had. Too bad too, because I actually agree with him that Chrysler and GM should have gone BK (for their own good) a year ago. Nice to know he has 1.5 years “in the industry”. And not even in this country. I always wondered about that, and suspected he never worked in the industry based on the things that he’s written, not his opinions.

  12. Chuck Says:

    I appreciate the attempt to bring on people with different viewpoints, but this one was way beyond that. Within the first 5 minutes, all there was to be said was said, and the rest was just cringe-inducing yelling.

    I do not agree with everything Peter says, and sometimes I feel he is overly inflammatory, but I have a new-found appreciation for his restraint.

    I had actually never heard of this guy before, but within 15 seconds I had made up my mind he was a pompous windbag. I had to go to the site to read through some of the material and reaffirmed that. The guy is hateful and spiteful and deserves no national platform for speech.

    I kept hoping you would just kill the line within a few minutes to save the show, though I felt you showed some journalistic integrity by hanging on.

    Nevertheless a very loyal listener and will continue to be so, but will refuse to listen to any show with that “guest” on.

  13. Dave E. Says:

    I watched your program last night with Robert Farago and putting the name calling a side he said some things that made a lot of sense. I agree that the automakers at this time should be helped. Losing them now would have a huge negative impact on a very weak economy. I also believe that they GM and Chrysler are reaping what they sowed. US citizens do not hate these automakers because their domestics and love foreign makers because their foreign, we stopped buying their cars cause we got burned and lost a lot of money.
    I’ve owned about eleven (11) domestics, only three of them didn’t suffer a catastrophic failure, I won’t even mention the nickel/dime stuff that drove me crazy. The worst case was my 2003 Saturn Vue, with a VTI transmission, in three years the value of the car dropped to less than ten percent of the purchase price. The “exploding” VTI transmission was the major problem. Every 40k the transmission would fail, costing about $7500 to repair. I returned to GM and wanted to trade the car in; they offered me a new Vue explaining that this new vehicle would be much better, because it was equipped with a Honda motor and transmission! GM did not offer any more money or a big discount on a new one. I didn’t bother, I bought a Honda. I’ve put close to 60k miles on the car and have not had a single thing to repair.
    Americans consumers don’t hate American cars, but they hate the way that they’ve been treated.
    Lastly, I don’t pretend to be an expert on how to make cars or the car companies and I’m amazed at the complexity and can appreciate the magnitude that must go into the producing them. Isn’t ok to at least comment and ask questions about the happenings at these companies? I’ve bought their stocks, worked on their cars, raced cars, watched many shows, written in forums and read an endless amount of articles. So would it be ok if I and other people commented every once in awhile?
    Health opposition is a good thing, but hopefully in future the discussion stays more civilized. As always keep up the good work with your shows and website.
    Dave E.

  14. Bill Says:

    John McElroy showed great talent in trying to get the panel (at least one person) back on topic. Farago’s site has been anti-Detroit forever. Sure, he predicted Chrysler bankruptcy for the last five years, but anyone could do that and have a 50% chance of being right eventually.

    Peter and Jason, great comments and poise in the face of Robert’s ceaseless, ignorant tirades.

  15. Ron Paris Says:

    John:
    Congratulations on a GREAT show tonight. I guess I’m the odd man out here, but it seems to me you finally got someone on (Robert Farago) who could offer a principled counterpoint to the Detroit bunker mentality that normally prevails on the show. While I did not agree with everything Robert said, he made so many good points about government intervention that he had me on the edge of my seat cheering the whole hour. I must say you handled yourself well John, but your pragmatic assertion that “It doesn’t matter whether the bailout was right or wrong, it just “is” and now we just need to figure out how to make it all work.” is incredibly lame! It can’t work John, because it goes counter to everything that is right about
    capitalism. And I’m talking laissez-faire capitalism here, not the mixed-economy welfare state variety that has got us into the mess we are currently in.
    As for Jason Vines and Peter De Lorenzo, this show absolutely bought them to their knees. They came across as megalomaniacal, elitist
    twits who relied on arguments for God and country rather than showing the slightest understanding of economics and markets. I hope, when you review this show, you will do so with an eye towards raising the intellectual bar for guest hosts.

    Keep up the good work John.

    Ron Paris
    Santa Rosa, CA

  16. TC Says:

    Thank you for an enlightening show. Although at times it became painful to watch, it clarified (for me) what has brought the domestic car manufacturers to this sad state in NA. To preface, I have watched and listened to you for over a decade and feel you offer a quality product. However despite your world view, I feel your assessment of what ails the Detroit 2.5 is heavily influenced by your relationship (like a parent serving as judge in a contest in which his own child competes) to the industry and parts supplier community. It is human nature to not want to criticize a close ally despite what the facts illustrate.

    To answer a question you posed last night, the reason the domestic manufacturers have not been competitive is as follows:

    1) Too few globally innovative products (currently) that are globally competitive – The notion that the US market is so special and unique that our volume products (trucks, cars, SUVs) only suit the NA marketplace may have been tolerable 40 years ago when the domestic cars had the US market sowed up, but no longer. Building products that cater primarily to one market (USA), make the cost of development high and the overall ROI in a global market less. BMW and Mercedes don’t make SUVs that are American focus but sell in all markets with powerplants/ powertrains reflective of regional needs.

    2) Production Mismanagement – Toyota and BMW are much better at balancing product production volumes to demand. The domestics tend to glut the US market and negatively impact resale values and the sales price of their vehicles (discounts/rebates). We all know this is in large part to the need to satisfy union obligations and address plant overcapacity.

    3) The hand of government… From my travels globally, many governments through fuel taxes, fees, etc. encourages the purchase of smaller, diesel powered vehicles thus giving manufacturers a framework to plan products. Those purchasing highly inefficient vehicles exist but are a much smaller percentage of volume. In the US, our culture encourages individual freedom to buy what one wants and the government generally does not drive/ encourage efficiency through regulation like the Europeans.

    4) Product… Product…. Product…. Here is how reason #2, 3, 4 impact the total situation. Due to US government regulations encouraging/ supporting fleet fuel inefficiency over the past 20 years, the mix of products offered in the NA market tends to focus less on efficiency (regardless of the product:SUV, car, truck)and more on customer want. A 20% shift in the price of fuel renders to domestic manufactures exposed to market conditions with no competitive fuel efficient product. Most domestic manufactures do not have a line-up elastic enough to withstand fuel price shocks. Toyota, Nissan, Honda through better production management (reason #2) adjusts the product mix quicker and through fewer dealerships.

    The long-term NA auto industry problem is not about the global downturn, BUT with the leadership teams and their lack of a comprehensive business strategy. BTW: Ford appears to be heading in the right direction with US product and leadership focus.

  17. Andy Says:

    I have no issue with someone with an anti-Detroit viewpoint coming on the show, but what is the point of Robert coming on if all he is going to do is shout “It’s a disgrace!” and “Not my tax dollars!” over and over for an hour?

  18. William Barrett Says:

    I didn’t even make it 10 minutes into the program. I was so digusted by the lack of civility that I turned it off.

  19. Ron Paris Says:

    Addendum: Here’s a no-brainer John. Replace Jason Vines with Jim Hall of 2953 Analystics (if he’s willing). Now that would up the intellectual caliber of the show considerably!

  20. craigerzgt Says:

    Better yet, have Jim Hall Skype in with Peter and Jason and all would be well again! :)

  21. pedro Fernandez Says:

    Wow the worst I could have imagined, this Farrago guy really HATES the big 3, what’s his beef? go move to China see if you can express yourself the way you can here!

  22. Ron Paris Says:

    Pedro: You missed the point entirely! This isn’t about ‘hating’ Detroit or the big 3, it’s about propping up businesses and industries that have failed to read the market correctly or have been mismanaged internally. This is about spending MY tax dollars (and those of Robert Farago) to maintain the status quo so that limited resources can continue to be wasted in pursuit of the wrong business model. Yes, there has been a multitude of government and union complicity in this mess, but that is no reason to subvert the “invisible hand” of the market and let these companies die a natural death without more government medling so that others can pick up the pieces and put them to better use.

  23. jim Says:

    It would have been nice to allow Peter to talk about his Autoextremist.com Pontiac column before all hell broke loose. Robert did make some good points but his delivery style was purely antagonistic. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear, but a true professional delivers it in a way that doesn’t make the person want to punch the deliverer in the nose.

  24. Andy Harris Says:

    WOW!! I had to watch this now (next day) and boy I’m I glad I did. I got 15 minutes into it and had to STOP! I couldn’t stand listening to Robert any more! His lack of respect for Detroit is like being the only Republican in a room full of Democrats.

    Please John, never invite him back! I don’t mind other views, but that was too much!!

  25. GV Says:

    Great show! Finally a good discourse on everything that is ailing this auto industry. Although Robert did come off a bit confrontational and condescending, his points were no less valid. Furthermore, his overall frustration in this dialog is a very good representation of the frustration felt by many Americans currently over the Big 3. This frustration has translated into plummeting sales for the big 3.

    John, I feel you handled yourself very well, however, your arguments that the Big 3′s troubles were caused by the market downturn is simply flawed. Yes, Toyota is loosing money currently, but they were not loosing money before the downturn, which was not the case for the Big 3. The Big 3 were well on their way to this path before the downturn happened, as evidenced by their financial statements in the last few years.

    Jason was simply outmatched by Robert in this debate. The only counter-argument offered by him were anecdotal facts that cannot be corroborated. Although Robert’s style is frustrating, he still brought conclusive facts to the table, something Jason did not do. Furthermore, the “everyone hates Detroit” argument was very weak; people don’t hate Detroit, they simply hate the sub-par products that came out of their companies over the years. Moreover, the “patriotic” argument used by Jason that he will defend the flag to the end is also weak; essentially by making this statement, people who buy imports are in essence “un-American” by this flawed logic. If this is the case, judging by the import’s market share in the U.S., and the surveys out there showing the majority of Americans against these bailouts, there are alot of “un-Americans” out there.

    The bottom line for me is this: yes Robert was to a certain extent rude and confrontational, however, no one came up with compelling arguments against the points he brought to the table. Because of this, his predictions about the Big 3′s demise will unfortunately come to fruition.

    Thank you John for giving me a chance to give my “two cents”.

  26. Chris Kern Says:

    Wow I’ve always been a shocked at the level of the hate that exists towards Detroit in the United States and I could never wrap my head around who these people were and why they felt so strongly against such a strategically important industry. This installment has given me my poster boy, that being Robert Farago. Farago should be the spiritual leader of the Autoextremist coined ‘Detroit=Bad Import=Good’ media un-intelligentsia that have this ‘me me’ attitude and amazing lack of knowledge or appreciation for what the Det3 mean to the United States and what their failure will mean. John asked a few times why Ford, GM, Chrysler can compete internationally and is having problems competing in N. AM.. The references to Fair Trade were important explanations however I’ve realized after years of tuning in to Autoline and reading Autoextremist, Jalopnik, TTAC et.al that not only have a lot of Americans left the Det3 off their shopping list due to past bad experiences there is a surprising level of hatred being tossed Detroit’s way as well. Internationally, even as close as in Canada here, I don’t see as much of this visible disdain and sheathing hatred of the Det3 that a lot of Americans (even Senators!) seem to harbour. Hey if you don’t want ‘em we’ll take ‘em, we kinda like ‘em, It would be nice to be more than just a trans-plant nation.
    Chris Kern
    Canmore, AB

  27. johnathan wills Says:

    I actually agree with Robert on alot of his points.
    mostly on GM not listening to it’s customers and I work for them.
    Also I think Peters making himself look like an elitist.
    Also, how different would this conversation be if Bush was in power.

  28. glen Says:

    go a way robert

  29. Gary P Says:

    Ouch, that was painful! If Farago is a guest again I will not watch. It’s not his positions that I object to, but rather the rude and childish demeanor with which he presented them. He came off as a petulant, immature partisan lacking any semblance of an understanding of the complexities of the industry. He was invited to a discussion, tried to make it a win-lose debate, and ended up coming off like a grade-schooler in a playground argument. I hadn’t heard of his site before this episode. He had an opportunity to attract me as a new reader. Instead I came away aware but uninterested.

  30. MJW Says:

    I really enjoy your show(s) but not this one. I had my doubts even before the show when I saw Robert Farago’s picture with the sunglasses on ( I am assuming he does not have a disability or medical condition) As a high school behaviour program teacher this would be a warning sign. Robert Farago did not fail to deliver on my hunch. Other letters have said it well. I turned the show off after a few minutes . I enjoy a lively discussion , sometimes even enjpy the McLaughlin Group but Robert Farago was too much – too rude, too profane. too loud etc A total ignoramous
    I hope he never return’s to Autoline Detroit airwaves unless it is to apologize to the panel and the listeners

  31. Reese Says:

    I just saw the show…The title should be The Truth About a Dumb Ass. Whats so bad is that I agree with some of the stuff he says but he is only interested in being the center of attention and being right. Its folks like him that gave away our television and VCR industry as well as many others. Geez what a waste of air.

  32. Phil Krueger Says:

    Mr. Farago made several interesting points, but it’s hard to listen to him. He sounds like an angry child with no perspective. It’s true that American cars were so poorly made and represented in the market for so long that many people will never consider them, even though the current quality level of many current models is as good as the best Asian models. This is completely the fault of GM, Ford and Chrysler past management, but those days are gone. I am in favor of helping them get back on their feet temporarily. Like the bank bailouts, assistance is necessary because of how many jobs are at stake. If the greedheads on Wall Street hadn’t crashed the economy, the world’s car companies wouldn’t be is such dire straits.

  33. Dan R Says:

    I made 8 minutes before the loud mouth turned me off. John “please” no more of this individual (Farago?). I have never seen such disruptive activity since Jerry Springer.

  34. MikeP Says:

    Mr. Farago has a great site in TTAC. He has some very excellent writers, who are very knowlegeble about cars.
    His point of view was different from the other three and that resulted in good debate for all 3 participants. Peter, the fourth guy, should not have been on the show because he was too damn personal and carried baggage from his own website! Take a deep breath Peter and either make a good arguement without personal attacks (we are not interested in the history of your bad relationship outside this program) on THIS PROGRAM or just don’t go where Farago is! Without Farago, this would have been an afternoon high tea for ladies “representing the Detroit neighborhood”

  35. pedro Fernandez Says:

    Hey, I completely agree that the big 3 got themselves into this mess. Poor planning and a sense of we know what people wanna buy and we’re gonna give it to them w/o looking at the whole picture. But to let them just die off and give up on the car industry would be too costly for this country. Lets hope they have learned from their mistakes, and put out desirable products. Right off the bat, I predict the Volt is a major blunder for GM, they’re doing it to please the environmental wackos and certain government officials w/o asking the public what they really want. I keep hearing people want RWD fun to drive, efficient cars and I dont see them coming.

  36. L. Weinberg Jr. Says:

    Farago is a first class DICK

  37. Reese Says:

    What Mike P forgot to tell you is that he is a fan boy of TTAC and that he believes everything Robert and his guys say. And Mike look at the telecast again it was Robert that started with the attacks..And as far as TTAC’s knowledge of cars well look no furhter than their evaluation of the Navagator. Anyone who has driven one once wouldn’t give it four stars.

  38. Tony Says:

    I watch autoline religiously every week. This is the first AAH that I have watched. Please try to not let things get so personal in the future. If I want to watch that kind of thing I’d still watch CNN or Fox news. I come here because I expect a civilized discussion about the industry that I work in (and love).

    I love this format though… at 18 minutes into the show when Peter went off it was great. His comments were too personal, but his comment about how Robert wrote all 3 of thier opinions off (and made it clear that he did) was very accurate. Robert was clearly there to discuss the why (or rather why not) and John and Co kept trying to discuss the where do we go from here (which is what the people in the industry are interested in)…

  39. Charles Says:

    I must say John, that while Robert came across as occassionally childish and unprofessional in his presentation, his points were valid and your other two panelists completely dropped the ball in their non-repsponses.
    Everyone seems to only want to make excuses for why the Detroit is in the shape it is in while ignoring the truth that is right in front of us. Both GM and Chrysler are essentially bankrupt (Chrysler officially) and really have been for some time. Their problems started long before the economic downturn and are a DIRECT result of the significantly substandard passenger vehicles they have been selling for some time now. Until fairly recently, they could get away with this because they do make good trucks and SUVs and made a ton of cash on them. However, when that tide started to turn their broken business model was exposed for the fraud that it is. Don’t shoot the messenger (in this case Mr. Farago) for delivering the bad news that you refuse to acknowledge.
    John, I thought you did a reasonable job containing the three ring circus but Jason and Peter were out of control. It was they who seemed unwilling to intelligently discuss any issue, instead choosing to attack Robert or simply base what arguments they did have on the fact that Detroit was useful in WWII. I thought Peter in particular came across as elitist and out of touch. He simply would not engage in the debate other than to bring up personal issues with Robert and to make the point that he seems to value only the opinions of those with 32 years of industry experience and that anyone else is simply a peasant with no standing in Lord Peter’s court.
    The reality is, it was a whole bunch of people with many, many years of experience in Detroit who managed to run the domestic auto industry in the ground. Perhaps another set of eyes might not be such a bad thing now.

  40. Gary P Says:

    Charles,

    I wouldn’t mind the perspective of “another set of eyes” as long as those eyes can look forward at least as much as backwards. Not once did Farago forward an intellegent thought about where we go from where we are. Rather he spent the entire hour bitching about decisions already made.

  41. Charles Says:

    I have to disagree Gary. I thought Farago was trying (over all the yelling and name calling), to say that Chrysler is a failed company and by all rights should be allowed to die. Everyone is aware of what that means, more uneployment, lost manufacturing, etc. However, the fact still remains that Chrysler is simply a failed entity and really were before the big economic blowup of last fall.
    I certainly didn’t hear any forward looking observations from the three amigos other than to say we must protect these two American dinosaurs at all costs. They didn’t offer, and I’ve yet to hear anyone articulate a plausible scenario where Chrysler becomes a profitable company again. John mentioned market rebounds in 2012 adn 2013 but how it the world will Chrysler survive until then, other than feeding on American tax dollars? Fiat won’t get any products here until at least next year, and then the HOPE is that we will all snatch them up and they will be incredibly profitable. That is a stretch to say the least.
    My point was not simply to defend Farago, but to point out to the three other kings that they have no clothes. I don’t want to see Detroit fail either but I just seems to me there are a lot of well intentioned folks who are refusing to admit the truth that a good many of folks outside Detroit realized a while ago. Industries change, companies come and go. Just because there has always been a Chrysler and GM (more or less) doesn’t mean there always will be. No company is entitled to survive. They have to earn it and Chrysler and GM simply have not.

  42. Bob Aubertin Says:

    Always enjoy AAH;however John, please send this Pompous Ass Farago to the dirt pile where he belongs.For a future show topic;

    1.) How about comparing the number of jobs created/generated by the BIG 3 in North America Vs the others.

    2.) Where do the profits go from the Others?

    3.) If these two topics can be addressed, then the U.S.tax payer will have a better understanding of the Vital role that the Big 3 play in supporting the North American economy.

    Looking forward to that discussion!!!

  43. Lloyd Says:

    Guys,

    I really enjoy your usual bantering and insightful conversations on the automotive industry. John, you are one heckuva patient guy. Farago seemed like he had an agenda to get under your skin and you just let it slide off and call him on the carpet. Peter, it must have really irked you that this character even was invited on the show. It appears you two have a history…good or bad as it may be. Jason, thanks for the mention of the American auto industry and all the hard working, patriotic folks behind the scenes that rolled up their sleeves for the war effort during WWII. And yes…JEEPS rock the world!

    Keep up the great content. I hope to catch you live this week.

  44. Dan Sutherland Says:

    John, Please don’t invite Robert Farago back or another guest like him to AAH. His behavour was loud and low class. Nobody wants to listen to the rants of a gumflapper. I had to turn it off. I still look forward to the next show!

  45. Steve Says:

    I turned it off after 10 minutes. Please don’t repeat this.

  46. LYNN A SANTOS Says:

    Detroit has to become lean and mean. That means GM has to be broken-up.

    Product Identity has to return. Overhead Valve engines should be scrapped. The argument that it allows for a lower frontal area is BC. GM was just too lacy, too dumb to know better.

    No intelligent buyer buys a 60 year old engine.

    Lastly Detroit has to downsize to where it can make a profit on 100,000 cars a year per platform with 4 or 5 different iterations of that platform produced along one assembly line.

  47. Anthony C Says:

    Having just watched this episode for the first time, I’m shocked at the lack of knowledge by so-called industry experts like Jason Vines. Was he really serious with his arguments that included bashing France and invoking WW2 racism with regards to the Japanese? If Mr. Vines is typical of the Detroit insider, then it is easy to see how and why Detroit finds itself in the mess they’re in.

    As far as Robert Farago go, while his style is brash, the fact is that his points were very valid and only met with either a non-response or a flag waving “commercial”. There was no substansitive counterpoint to any of Farago’s statements.

  48. metavitae Says:

    These 3 old guys are all such whiny tools.
    McElroy particularly is talking out of both sides of his mouth. Half-tries to make a point, then later denies it.
    Vines is just a liberal freaking ‘community’ whiner. What a joke. Double-talks almost as much as McElroy.
    And DeLorenzo just has a bug stuck up somewhere and invalidates himself by attacking Robert Personally.

    Thinking like John & Jason’s, and maybe a little bit of DeLorenzo’ is exactly the type of defensive, distractionary bullshit by a bunch of deadwood that has to go away in order for industries to survive.

  49. miradart Says:

    I really liked the way John navigated this! As host he needed to move things along and make the guest feel like his opinions were welcome, but he wasn’t going to take any shenanigans. He corrected Farago on several of his complete blowout lies, and still kept the show moving along.

    I only heard about particular show during the 50th show. I wouldn’t worry about handling anything differently. Farago is a goof.