AD #2226 – EV Tax Credit in Danger, Why Autonomy Could Change Car Design, Jeep Experimented with Wrangler Design

November 3rd, 2017 at 11:41am

Runtime: 7:39

0:31 OEMs Team Up to Build Charging Network
1:03 EV Tax Credit in Danger
1:29 EVs Outpace Overall Market
2:30 Mahindra to Open New Plant in Detroit
2:51 Jeep Experimented with Different Wrangler Design
3:33 Tesla Hit by Setbacks
4:03 Toyota Updates the Prius c
5:04 Why Autonomy Could Change Car Design

Visit our sponsors to thank them for their support of Autoline Daily: Bridgestone , Dow Automotive Systems , Lear Corporation and Hyundai.

»Subscribe to Podcast | iTunes | RSS | Listen on Phone Stitcher | YouTube

Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website:

18 Comments to “AD #2226 – EV Tax Credit in Danger, Why Autonomy Could Change Car Design, Jeep Experimented with Wrangler Design”

  1. Wim van Acker Says:

    @Tesla: “Tesla said it would start building 5,000 Model 3’s a day by December”. That would be 1.5 million vehicles on an annual basis. Should the 5,000 per day be 500?

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    #1 It’s 5000/week, not 5000/day.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

  4. Lambo2015 Says:

    Maya era may have to find a new emblem design for the US. There emblem looks exactly like a the motor home manufacturer Monaco.

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    Mahindra thanks autocorrect

  6. Tuck&roll Says:

    If it’s too good to be true then guess what? It is. The automy discussions have been mostly about unicorns and butterflies. All is well in Mudville. But, John, you have not spent enough time about the down side. You have touched on the problems of data ownership, cyber security, and vehicle control. But, I for one, would like to see an in depth show devoted to this down side. And, there are many and they are crucial.
    Now for EVs. I believe that that EVs have been artificialy propped up my governmental tax credits across the world. Once they are lifted EV sales will crash like the proverbial stone. Just the threat of tax credit removal has had an immediate impact. Have we not learned anything from the past. This EV vs IC was played out a century ago. And we all know how that movie ended. It’s happening again. And again little discussion is given to the obvious EV down side. We consumers see it as obvious. But, govts, as usual, think they know better.

  7. Tuck&roll Says:

    Also, your panelists assurance that third party integration is like just another day in the office is a myth. Integration of the third party proprietary rights is a nightmare. Third party developers are reluctant to change/adjust their configuration without considerable compensation, if at all. And, configuration control of numerous software products on one platform becomes unmanageable. Hiring a prime contractor to manage overall program integration does not solve the OEMs challenge. It just shifts the burden. The problem remains the same, integration and configuration control. Just like mechanical production, software development lags, is delayed and not updated to integrate with other changes of participating third parties. It also suffers from employee hiring and retention. After 35 years in AF C2 I’ve seen it all.

  8. Lisk Says:

    Is there really anything in it for the OEMs to build charging stations? It seems to me if the local gas stations don’t see the need/benefit then how could the OEMs? If I were a station owner, would I want to invest thousands of dollars for the equipment and then give up the real estate for a car that is going to be taking up space for a half hour or so to spend $15. If they charge times can drop to under 5 minutes, it might be worth it, but then again the equipment cost will be even higher.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The best places to charge electric cars are where they will be parked anyway, like in home garages, in parking places on streets, and in city parking garages. Unless things change A LOT, in regard to speed of charging, the “gas station” model will not be part of charging large numbers of plug-in cars.

  10. Wim van Acker Says:

    @9: Agree. The gas station model would be possible with easy in-and-out battery packages in future. Instead of charging the battery pack, exchange it. Charging could be done overnight using low tariff power. Classes of battery packs would have to be defined, so new packs are replaced with new ones, etc. Just like Regular and Premium gasoline.

  11. John McElroy Says:

    #6. Did you see our Autoline This Week on American losing its wanderlust? That’s the only downside of AVs that I see. What downsides do you see?

  12. John McElroy Says:

    #8. Here’s why OEMs are taking it upon themselves to build charging stations in Europe. They face a CO2 mandate by 2021 that they cannot meet without EVs. And since gas station owners don’t see much of a return in installing charging stations, the OEMs have to step in. Either way it’s going to cost them. They can invest in charging stations or they can pay massive fines.

  13. Tuck&roll Says:

    John, yes I did watch the AW show on AV. It prompted my comments. As I had mentioned in my comments about software issues, there are plenty. Third party integration is a huge problem in platform development. They do not want an OEM inserting code in their product to satisfy an esoteric need. Proprietary and intellectual rights loom large. I know software discussion in acquisition is a confusing topic to many not familiar with it. And it can get down right boring. But, they are challenges that must be addressed daily to provide an Integrated, reliable, and maintainable product. Integrating a Commercial-off-the-shelf software product with others causes holes in the configuration control process. I.e. software companies will not divulge their code to outside parties for obvious reasons. And, what level of Software Qualty Assurance process are they using? ISO 9000, CMMI levels? Knowing this provides development confidence. SQA encompasses the entire software engineering/development process. These are all transparent issue to consumers. But, they become manifested in daily use. And the customer wants more and more automation, that works. Man-in- the-loop and man-on-the-loop are being replaced by AI, as Hocking has predicted. This should be extremely troubling to all human beings. With all this said, how do the auto companies honestly believe they wil provide a working product? Give us the 80% solution like MS? Really? Hope this helps.

  14. W L Simpson Says:

    Charging stations won’t be needed for the Nissan not quite ready for primetime– eHope small batt pack , constant duty IC (rotary??) eng. KISS !

  15. Bob Wilson Says:

    The Federal EV tax credit only exists for the first 200,000 vehicles. It was never going to be forever. Equal to that are the ZEV credits needed to sell in the CARB states along with HOV access. Then there are some States that offer local tax credits. But don’t count the current tax plans that have yet to be written, much less passed and signed into law.

    FYI, I bought a used, 2014 BMW i3-REx without a tax credit. The rapid depreciation of plug-in cars has made them a buyer’s market.

    As for charging stations, the low hanging fruit are the dealer EVSE that too often are only available during business hours, at best six days a week. In an ideal world, dealer EVSE would be located to be available 24×7 but with a “parking” fee for non-dealer EVs.

    Bob Wilson, Huntsville, AL

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    For me, plug-in cars would work best if you could just plug them in overnight, at home. Where I spend summers, in an old house with a detached garage, great. Where I spend winters in a condo in Florida, there are no provisions for charging. I’m looking into that.

  17. Bob Wilson Says:

    #16 – A plug-in hybrid turns out to be the most flexible solution but the first step is to use to survey chargers near your Florida home. If no charging at the condo, even a 120VAC outlet, look for L2 and possibly fast DC chargers near where you shop and play. The hybrid part of a plug-in because it means you’ll not be stranded if 3d party chargers are down or in use.

    BTW, I just learned a new term, “hybrid garage.” It refers to someone who has a BEV and a second, gas/diesel powered car, and a garage. In contrast, a plug-in hybrid seamlessly switches between EV and gas at anytime.

    FYI, my web link to a UC Davis study, “Advanced Plug-in Electric Vehicle Travel and Charging Behavior Interim Report”, January 2017, quantifies what is going on. They found BEV owners are unlikely to charge at a remote site, beyond their fully charged range. Charge at home and work, yes, but longer trips, no. In contrast, plug-in hybrid owners do opportunistic charging because they know they won’t be stranded.

    Bob Wilson

  18. stephen Says:

    OEMs are building charging stations to kick start the market. If they keep losing cash on every EV sale, then that loss will start to really eat their profits. Hydrogen-Fuel cells sounds great but big oil sees no reason to offer an EV competition and they can put in fast chargers quickly without any supply issue. While home chargers are there, users need to see charging in action. Diesel was considered a dirty commercial fuel until gas stations put it next to standard gas pumps.