AD #2491 – Chevy Introduces Silverado HD, VW Won’t Develop ICEs After 2026, FCA Sales Surprises in November

December 5th, 2018 at 11:39am

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Runtime: 6:12

0:33 VW Won’t Develop ICEs After 2026
1:05 VW May Build Cars at Ford Plants
2:10 Chevy Introduces Silverado HD
2:57 Alonso To Use Chevy Power at Indy 500
4:20 FCA Sales Surprises in November

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47 Comments to “AD #2491 – Chevy Introduces Silverado HD, VW Won’t Develop ICEs After 2026, FCA Sales Surprises in November”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    Great show, Sean. I read the transcript today, because on another screen the sound is on Pres. Bush’s funeral going on right now, with former PM of Canada Brian Mulroney speaking.

    Thanks for the details on FCA sales. It may seem shocking that the Ram sold almost as many units as the Silverado, if you forget that the 2018 Silverado, an almost new model, looks little different from the 1990s Silverado a colleague (who lives on a farm 15 miles from here, so is fully justified in owning a pikcup) would bring to work daily.

    Even more interesting is the high take of the Diesel option. Those who buy it will realize few fuel savings, given that diesel prices, last time I saw them, were $1 higher than gas, but still it is a sound decision, not only because fuel prices change all the time, but especially because of the far superior capabilities of the diesel, especially in a pickup that is used to TOW.

    Also very interesting is VW’s decision to stop bothering with new ICE engines. If any other automaker made this decision, I would attach much less weight to it. However, this is VW, the maker of the iconic and hugely influential original Beetle, and later the maker of the Golf, a mass market FWD Hatch that is far more fun to drive than anything in its class, and a symbol of what a high quality affordable car should be, outside the US.

    Finally, tomorrow’s AAH should be fun, because we do not have yet another salesman touting their latest model, but an independent person who will tell us his ownership experience of the high-performance version of the Model 3.

  2. Terry Quinn Says:

    When visiting the Penske Racing Museum in Scottsdale, AZ a few years back, they had a display of the Penske Indy winners. Some of them were powered by V8 Penske engines, and some were powered by V8 Chevrolet engines. But to look at them, they all looked very similar, with some changes each model year. I asked about that, and they said they were really all Penske designed engines, and in the years that Chevrolet was providing sponsorship, they re-tagged them as Chevrolet engines.

    It makes me wonder who makes the Chevrolet engine that will be in Alonso’s car in 2019.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    VW wont develop any new ICE after 2026? Hummm maybe trying to clean up its image in the aftermath of the dieselgate. Wouldn’t be surprised in 2020 to hear them say; “The EV market hasn’t provided enough revenue to discontinue with ICE development so its back to the drawing board.

    Can I just say that Fernando Alonso is the doppelganger for actor Jason Lee from “My name is Earl” and “Alvin and the chipmunks”.

    Ram Truck only 335 behind GM wow! It is a nice truck and priced better than Ford and GM.

    Look forward to the after hours show on the Tesla model 3.

  4. mike Says:

    Man, that HD Silverado looks…. not so pleasant! I expect FCA will take over #2 in the Truck’s in 2019!

  5. XA351GT Says:

    Wow that Silverado is butt ugly. I didn’t know GM hired the blind to design their trucks. Or the designer of the Ford F350 Super Duty said to the Chevy designer I bet you can’t beat this ? To which he said hold my beer. Can’t hardly wait to see how Ram tries to out ugly the competition.

  6. MaxC Says:

    Enjoying the numbers that Ram is putting up in regards to sales. I am curious how many F150′s Ford sold last month? Would enjoy seeing Ram take over the #2 spot in pickups, and then put the F150 in it’s sights.

  7. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    Commercial buyers are impressed with powertrain specifications, towing/hauling specifications, and price. In this area Chevrolet should compete well assuming it is priced right. The new diesel engine will be hard to beat! I think the Ford heavy duty has awkward looks, this chevy is awkwardly awkward in the looks department. Luckily looks are a low priority to traditional buyers in this market.

    Here is my tin foil hat conspiracy for the day….VW will definitely stop developing ICE engines. This will be because they will leave it to its partners FORD or whomever else they end up partnering with. There will likely still be ICE powered VWs in the future.

  8. Bishop Says:

    #6 F-series sales in November was 72,102. The ninth straight month of 70,000+ sales.

  9. Druff Says:

    When looking at the front shot of the new Chevy the first thought I had was the Family Truckster. I see Ram outselling Chevy with that look.

  10. bradley cross Says:

    #1 the car guest can be interesting if its an engineer with technical or industry insight but when its a marketing person its normally a flat segment.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    VW may rethink their decision to stop development of ICEs after 2026, unless the ICE is truly “mature” technology, after 130 years or so. Things seem to be plateauing as far as power and efficiency, so maybe we are getting there.

    To me, all of the “HD” pickups are ugly, even more so than the non-HD ones. Maybe people who buy them don’t care. As far as the lighter duty big pickups, the new Ram is, by far, my favorite, appearance-wise.

    With the diesels, many are sold for mostly irrational reasons of people “liking” diesels. Chevy will have an appealing one for the 1500 Silverado, in that it will be a proper inline 6. We’ll see how it performs in due time.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2 All, or nearly of of the Chevy badged Indy car engines have made by Ilmor, as was the Mercedes-Benz badged V-8 commissioned by Penske for the 1994 Indy 500.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    11 “With the diesels, many are sold for mostly irrational reasons of people “liking” diesels”

    I doubt this is true at all. The many hundreds of thousands of pickup buyers every year (out of more than two million pickups sold) who choose to pay the considerable premium (it used to be around $4k) to get the diesel option, are, in their vast majority, those who really need a pickup in their Work or on their farm. The other hundreds of thousands who buy pickups because they think is cool, the “poseurs”, could care less about the powerplant, all they care about is the image the styling of the truck gets them.

    Here we are focused on private light vehicles, but when you seriously look at all the vehicles used to transport the goods and raw materials around the world, almost NONE of them are ICE.

    * All heavy duty trucks are diesels, abroad AND in the USA. I don’t know how serious the inroads of fully electric 18-wheelers will be, decades in the future, but ICE sure is more dead than a doornail whenever you use a vehicle SERIOUSLY.

    * ALL TRains are diesels or Hybrid Diesel Elecrtrics. Including all passenger trains AND of course all freight trains.

    * Almost all Buses are diesels, with EV and diesel-electric hybrid ones, AND a few natural gas powered ones making inroads, but again, few, if any, buses have ICEs.

    * ALL cargo ships are diesels, and they carry the VAST majority of all world trade, measured in volume and weight.

    Pure EVs are not fuel cells. They are the future, whether people like it or not.

    Today at 7 AM I was at the traffic light where I turn left to go to my office, and there was an SUV or pickup behind me, its headlights illuminating a huge cloud of exhaust coming from my diesel E 320. I felt I was driving a dinosaur, and despite the many great ICE vehicles I was thinking of buying next, it is quite likely that my next cars will all be EVs.

  14. WineGeek Says:

    Sean you passed over the dismal sales of Fiat in all the hype about FCA. Problem prone vehicles tend to promote lower sales.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 Go to central Indiana and see how many diesel pickups are running around, hauling nothing, and towing nothing. Sure, people buy them because they work well for towing, but a lot of people buy them for the “macho” image. Come to think of it, a lot of people buy pickups in general for the macho image, because they never haul anything other than a couple bags of groceries.

    I guess you didn’t know, but diesels are ICEs, compression ignition ICEs.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Chrysler is an FCA division that deserves to do better, with that great Pacifica minivan. They should just take Fiat out of its misery in the U.S. market, though.

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    #13 Diesels are Internal Combustion Engines.
    Yes all trucks trains and boats are diesel because of the massive torque and longevity. So yes they are ICEs.

  18. Lambo2015 Says:

    #15 Being that its Indiana maybe all those diesel trucks you see are farmers that buy fuel in bulk and have their own tanks at home. So they buy diesel so they can refuel at home along with their farm equipment. But I agree that only a very few people would pay the premium price of a diesel just cause they think its cool. Most likely they tow something on the weekends that you may not see them haul to the grocery store everyday.

  19. MaxC Says:

    #13 Few if any buses have ICE’s? As pointed out, diesels are ICE’s, but I think you probably meant gas ICE’s. In the largest mass transit group of vehicles in the nation – school buses – gas engines are making a HUGE comeback. All three major school bus manufacturers are now offering gas engines after many years of having not done so.

    #8 Thanks for the sales numbers on the F150. Ram has a long way to go to catch up to that.

  20. ChuckGrenci Says:

    My initial reaction to the HD Chevy was similar, ugly or at least weird, but I think that it just might grow on you. And after all it is the face of the 2500 and 3500 so the pedestrian version will not be so offputting

  21. Roger Blose Says:

    Boy that Chevy HD pickup is a sad piece of work! It is repulsive in styling, front, side and back. They know it is bad so they leak it out early to try and soften the blow. Here comes RAM!

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 A lot of them are Chrysler workers who buy them because they consider them to be “cool.” Yeah, some tow boats and campers with them, but more probably tow nothing.

    I know four people who have them, and two tow nothing, ever. They have bed covers on them and use them like a very expensive small hatchback, or whatever.

  23. Larry D. Says:

    17 You, as usual, are incredibly annoying. Half the time you misinterpret what I mean, and the other half, like here today, you knew perfectly well what I meant, I meant GASOLINE vs DIESEL engines. Do you understand now, or do you still pretend you do not?

    And BTW, while in the US most taxis use gas, over in Europe and the rest of the world, AGAIN, the Vast majority of Taxis are, you guessed it? DIESELS, the amazingly durable Mercedes E class diesels but every other maker, Toyota, the French, VW Group (with its SKODA arm usually), and all the rest of them, offer diesel versions for Taxis there.

    My taxi driver when I fly to the old country is a young woman who seems to be a Mercedes Enthusiast, she has an aging E class from 1998 or so (the model prior to mine) with 4,000,000 KM (2,500,000 miles) on it, and finally is thinking of replacing it. Try to do that with a gas engine…. lol.

  24. W L Simpson Says:

    Re: the car scene today—” http://freakonomics.com/2009/11/19/quotes-uncovered-who-first-said-if-you-cant-beat-em/

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 That’s interesting. When I was a kid, in the ’50s and ’60s, school buses were all gas, with manual transmissions. Now, all of them that I see are diesels. It sounds like that will be changing.

    What gas engines are being used in the school buses?

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 Do you know how many times the engine in that 2.5M taxi was rebuilt? Is it manual or automatic trans? Maybe they sold only automatic by then, even in Europe, but I figure you could probably still get manuals.

  27. Larry D. Says:

    22 You base all those strongly worded beliefs about who buys the DIESEL versions of pickups in the US using the sample of FOUR people you know? out of the three million pickups sold every year in the US, and the perhaps half million of them that are Diesels? Maybe you should review your statistics book a bit, if you have one, and understand what the size of a representatyive sample must be. Statistics can do wonders, if the samples are independent, and not biased, you can predict how the US population will vote with a sample of 1,000 of the 350,000,000, as long as they are 1,000 independent voters, but you sure cannot predict the number of diesel pickup buyers, even if your sample was unbiased, from a sample of 4. (it needs to be about the square root of the population you look at, in this case, if 500,000 are diesel pickups, you need about 707, not 4, samples.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    26 this is just one sample, and she takes very good care of the engine, changes the oil weekly even though I doubt she needs to so frequently. I do not have her complete history of repairs and replacements here. She has the 3.0 lt engine, which is unusual, even though both of mine are 3 lt, because most taxis in Europe use much smaller diesels, 2.1 lt for the mercs, smaller for the Toyota Avensis and the Skodas. In addition, she has the fuel price advantage, 1.65 Euro for gas and 1.30 for diesel are the latest figures, and the gap was bigger in prior years.

  29. Larry D. Says:

    28 PS I don’t remember 100% if she had a manual. If she had the smaller engine I might guess she did.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 Yes, I realize that my sample of four means nothing, and in other parts of the country, more of the diesel pickups are bought for a valid reason.

    28, 29 Thx for reply.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 I answered part of my question. Blue Bird uses a Ford 6.8 V-10, which can be bought for propane or gasoline.

    The way school buses are used, it makes sense. The buses are only used an hour or two a day, so they don’t get a zillion miles, where fuel economy, and engine life would be more important. Also, they would be lower maintenance, with much cheaper oil changes, no DEF fluid, etc. Also, the air would be cleaner where kids have to walk around them.

  32. Lambo2015 Says:

    #23 Sorry Larry I am unable to interpret what you mean. I only know what you write.
    Certainly I’m not any more annoying than the 500 word posts about what your watching on your other monitor or friend of yours that owned whatever car who cares whenever. Way more info than anyone needs or wants.

  33. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Lambo2015 #3 – You may already know this, sorry if you do, but I think it’s worth expanding on. VW won’t develop a new ICE after 2026, but ICE will live on in the vehicles platforms they’re designed for for many years to come. Many platforms last for at least 8 years and vehicles, like the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger/Challenger prove they can last much longer.

  34. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Bishop #8 – Remember these are F-”SERIES” sales, not solely F-150. Ford does not break out sales of just the F-150.

  35. Bishop Says:

    What is the breakout of RAM’s sales? i.e., 1500, 2500, 3500?

  36. Lambo2015 Says:

    #33 Yea thank Sean, however new engine development typically is 3 to 4 years ahead of production so VW is basically saying the ICE will be dead around 2035. Maybe, but to make this announcement now, seems more about image repair than being able to predict the future of ICE years from now.

  37. Bishop Says:

    Kit,
    I had dinner with a relative a while back and he is high up in his school board. He told me that ‘alternative’ fueled school buses purchases have risen drastically in the last 5 years – even though the cost for them is even higher (initially) than a diesel powered bus (significantly too ~$25k IIRC) up front.

    But the the CNG, or propane powered buses are much cleaner (emissions), way cheaper and easier to maintain, increasingly easier to get, and something most of us wouldn’t think of right off the bat – provide a quieter ride. Apparently diesel mechs/techs are not so easy to come by either these days.

    Most larger school systems use them more than we would think too. That is why school hours (elementary, middle, high) are often staggered. The buses often do double, and even triple duty daily.

    The final kicker is that they are getting some funding from the VW’s mitigation trust fund, or whatever they call it. Many of the school systems – that do buy NEW buses – are going that way. They sell their older buses (mostly diesel powered) to communities that can’t afford to buy new. One would assume that they then get stuck with the huge expense of overhauling/rebuilding those diesels at some point – which is easily the most expensive motor to rebuild.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    School buses accrue an average of about 12,000 miles a year, but the rest of this is also interesting.

    https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10309

  39. XA351GT Says:

    Is anyone on here a viewer since episode 1 of Autoline Daily like I am? If so do you remember a commentator who used to attack others and have extremely wordy posts ? He used several different screen names , so many we just called him Sybil , the person with 47 personalities? Could we possibly have Sybil back again?

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    39. Yes

  41. Max Says:

    31 Yes, Blue Bird uses the Ford engine, IC uses a PSI engine – either gas or propane, and Thomas may or may not have a gas engine. Here’s a link to the IC engines:

    https://www.icbus.com/why-icbus/engine-choice

    37 In regards to rebuilding a diesel in a school bus – that rarely happens. Even though school buses will oftentimes get to be 15-20 years old, the body rots away and falls apart long before the diesel engine needs to be rebuilt.

  42. Dwight Barnes Says:

    39-XA351GT
    Yes I remember that clown.
    He went by several other aliases including;
    The Colorado Kid and tj Martin. These are just a few of the names he used after being run off this forum but always came back using another name.
    He was a cancer eating away at this great forum.
    I do believe he is back.
    His style of writing was a dead give away.
    If you did not agree with his mantra you would be berated online.
    This is great forum that should be open for others to express their point of view without reprisal.
    What the hell is this…

    16 Of all the Maserati owning friends the one with the Ghibli and his wife is one of my oldest and best friends, a navy officer whose father and grandfather (both of whom I met!) were also in the Navy,

    Gag me !!!
    Dwight Barnes

    I will repost this tomorrow.

  43. Jonathan Brown Says:

    That silverado is hard on the eyes.

    As far as unit sales at fca…keep in mind discounts are huge so unit sales value need to be kept in check…

    Check out the fca lease rates from the factory…its been fire sale season at fca dealers and when leasing…consumers are less brand loyal…

    As an automotive enthusiast consumer watching fca leasing deals are unbelievably aggressive.

  44. Pete Says:

    Wow that new Silverado is one ugly beast! Kind of looks like a truck version of a 2001 Pontiac Aztec.

  45. Lambo2015 Says:

    #37 The very small agricultural school I went to switched over to propane probably 8 years ago. They only have like 15 buses and they might even be NG now. I just remember seeing the large propane tank being installed. But NG has been piped out to the school since that time.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    CNG is much more complex fuel to use than propane, because it needs to be compressed to very high pressure, like 3000 psi, to carry very much. It is a good, clean fuel, though. Having piped in gas from a utility can partly offset the cost of the high pressure fueling equipment and expensive fuel system in a vehicle.

  47. Brett Cammack Says:

    I don’t think this “Angry Transformer” styling motif for light trucks is particularly appealing. I look forward to it going the way of opera windows someday soon.

    Anyone willing to conjecture about the belligerent styling of contemporary SUVs/CUVs/pickups is a manifestation of the average American’s levels of economic and social stress? It is appealing to project strength and fierceness when you are dealing with feelings of weakness and helplessness?

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