AD #2519 – Peugeot Shows Off Retro Cars, $5,000 Chinese EV Pickup Heading to U.S., Will Ford Electrify the Mustang?

January 28th, 2019 at 11:42am

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Runtime: 7:25

0:31 Macron Weighs in On Ghosn Situation
1:10 Electrify America Shuts Down High-Powered Chargers
2:01 24 Hours of Daytona Results
2:54 Peugeot Shows Off Retro EV
3:44 $5,000 Chinese Electric Pickup Heading to U.S.
4:27 Hyundai Kona Electric Pricing Revealed
5:25 Will Ford Electrify the Mustang?

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33 Comments to “AD #2519 – Peugeot Shows Off Retro Cars, $5,000 Chinese EV Pickup Heading to U.S., Will Ford Electrify the Mustang?”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I assume that the 28 mph pickup will not be DOT street legal, but it will probably get by in Florida, and some other states, that allow golf carts on public streets. If they would bump up the top speed to 60 or so, and make it street legal, it would sell, even at $10K.

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Will the “electric power” for the Dodge muscle cars be the 48 volt mild hybrid system used in the pickups? That would be cheap and easy to do.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    The little EV truck might do alright since the side by side ATVs start around $8500 and go up to over $24,000 but also have speeds of 45mph for even the starter model Polaris 500.

    If they could just put together an electric side-by-side with similar performance and close to the same price it would probably do way better than the truck.

  4. Drew Says:

    After all the media praise, I checked-out the Hyundai Kona at NAIAS last week. It is a nice economy vehicle that is hard to classify (too low to be a CUV/SUV and lacks an AWD option). But it is not economy-priced. It is a CUV/SUV poser, attempting to eke higher CUV/SUV revenue.

    So, I am perplexed… the Kona’s electric variant is priced like a Chevy Bolt and has similar hard trim as a Chevy Bolt, yet the media reaction suggests Hyundai spiked the a Kool Aid… whereas the Chevy PR trolls must have served prune juice last year.

  5. Brett Cammack Says:

    The EV pickup would be useful for our facility. We have about five golf carts, two with pickup beds and I can see the Maintenance department finding one of these to be handy.

  6. Larry D. Says:

    I wonder if Macron’s “nipponization” thing was a blunder or a prepared remark. I doubt it will help him in whatever he wants to accomplish with the Ghosn mess.

    I looked at the link (Det News article) about that $5k truck and it did not say, but probably it is not street legal.

    In china it sells for half that, so I wonder if they would also bring those $500 Electric Scooters that they had even as early as 2006 (Shanghai Campuses had thousands of them) and sell them here for $1000. They would still undercut even the tiniest electric bikes by a factor of three or five.

    4 I saw a Kona from the back couple days ago (I bet it was not the EV version) and it looks like most small CUVs look, like the Rogue or the Escape. I also saw a sporty looking sedan-coupish-hatchish yesterday at the library lot, front was not recognizable (later I noticed the Kia-like grille shape), it had a letter instead of a logo (looked like a capital E or a Sigma), finally I saw the “Stinger” logo on the side.

    5 My condo complex could also sure use one or two of these for inside the complex (360 condos, takes 30 mins to walk around it) jobs.

    But construction sites, as they say, it should be quite popular there. Esp those who build no frills affordable homes and watch their costs. Farms too! Why use an F 150 when this can do the exact same job? (1,100 lbs, or half-ton capacity. Aren’t most mass sold light trucks ‘half ton’too?

  7. cwolf Says:

    Why buy anything Chinese if it can be avoided. There are better alternatives and anything, even used, would prolly be more reliable.

  8. Larry D. Says:

    Those compact crossovers are starting to look too much alike from some angles. While returning home on Sat, I saw two of them with almost exactly the same design in the rear / side window area, and one was some Rav4 and the other was a Ford (probably an Escape). At first I thought they were identical.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    7 There is a ton of Farmers that cannot afford $80k full size pickups that cannot carry any more cargo than the $1,100 lbs of the Chinese $5,000 truck. Same for construction sites. How unreliable can they be? They are far simpler than the expensive ones, so they may even be more reliable, if you include all the electronic glitches owners bitch about to JD Power and Consumer Reports.

    BTW I saw a test of the new Ranger on the web. That thing does not look attractive at all. Really boxy low-rent design.

  10. Len simpson Says:

    This post has no reference to today’s program , but I think it is well worth one’s time to peruse. Kristopher 2018-08-12 15:41:54

    I’ve had my 2018 Tesla Model 3 since May 4, 2018 and I have loved every single minute behind the wheel of this car of the future. The minimalist interior is a very welcome change from the busy center console and dash designs from literally every other mass market vehicle on the road today and yesterday. Next up, the performance of the Model 3 is just plain great. If you’ve driven other Teslas (Model S or X), then you will know what I mean. The instant torque is very, very addicting. The acceleration when something usually mundane like getting onto the freeway has some added fun each and every time. I have taken one long road trip with my Model 3 so far (2,600 miles) up from Southern California up to Monterey, CA and then Oregon. The drive with Autopilot enabled is truly a game changer. By my own estimates, I used Autopilot for about 80% of the time while I was on the freeways. There were large sections of open driving for a the majority of my drive, but Autopilot also helped immensely during the pockets of congestion/traffic on the freeways, too. On top of Autopilot, the Tesla Supercharger network was well thought-out for sure. The stops that we made were in the perfect intervals where we felt like we would’ve needed to stop anyways for bathroom and snack/meal breaks. Overall, the 2 year wait for the Model 3 was well worth it. I also found out that you can place an order today and you will get your Model 3 in a matter of months. I have and will continue to praise the Model 3 and recommend it to everyone I know because it’s just that great of a vehicle and it’s a true glimpse into an all-electric and zero emissions future.

  11. Drew Says:

    Does anyone know how well Tesla’s AuoPilot works in wintry weather, like today’s 4-6 inches of snow in Michigan? I know the EV range is reduced in cold weather, but I suspect the AutoPilot sensors will be confused when it can’t see the lines in the road and when ice packs over the radar sensors.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 The Niro, at least the gas version, is 2 inches less tall than a Bolt, 61 vs 63 inches. CR-V and Rav4 are 67 inches tall. Basically, the Bolt and Niro EV are direct competition, but maybe people won’t see it that way. We’ll find out in due time.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5, 6 My condo complex (240 units) has a Kawasaki Mule trucklet, with a one cylinder gas engine. We are on the 2nd Mule. The bed of first one rusted horribly in about 5 years, I guess from whatever salt spray you get from the ocean 1/2 mile away, but it was mechanically reliable.

    That electric machine would work fine for us, if it is any good. I assume it can by charged from a 120 volt outlet, which is available in our maintenance garage.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    11, 4. $ was not talking about the Niro, but the EV Kona, which is clearly a compact crossover, while the Bolt sure is not. It is not just about the height difference, it is also about the ground clearance, and, above all, the perception the combination of all dimensions create.

    The Niro is an alternative to the Ioniq Hybrid and EV that looks like a small cute wagon. The Bolt looks like a chopped minivan (2/3rds the length of a minivan).

    Many of the Bolt ‘sales’ are used by the GM Cruise and other AV- Mobility ventures. Normal buyers will not squander $40k to buy a short fat mini-minivan (or hatch) when you can buy those at less than half price with gas engines. $40k is 3 series money. people willing to spend $40k stand in line for their Tesla Model 3. Very few desertions, when the $40k Model 3 is not yet available, after 2 years of waiting, benefited the Bolt. The numbers are already out there. And soon the Bolt will have real competition from the new Leaf, which looks much better than the old one, has sufficient range, and looks less bloated and minivanny than the Bolt.

    Rightly or wrongly, hatches and minivans (and to some extent sedans) are the kiss of death in any expensively priced design.

  15. Larry D. Says:

    10 it is snowing here in MI today, the biggest of the season, to be followed by below zero temps for a few days, but how many of the 365 days a year will the autopilot be confused? 5? 10 at most? In those cases, if true, drive it yourself. There are AWD Tesla versions of all models, I believe, not that you need AWD in flatland MI. If your all seasons have sufficient tread left, you should be ok even with RWD as I am.

  16. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11, 12 Oops, I meant Kona, and that is what I gave dimensions for. Sorry. I sometimes get these H/K products mixed up :-)

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12 …and whatever you want to call the Kona or the Bolt, the Kona is 2 inches less tall than the Bolt, according to CR, who actually measures and weighs the vehicles they have. They are the same 164 inches long. That was a gas Kona, though. The EV version could be different.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12 The numbers are not out there for the Kona EV, which will cost basically the same as the Bolt. That’s what I meant by “We’ll find out in due time” in #11.

  19. Drew Says:

    Both the Kona and Bolt have cheap plastic interiors… not in line with their lofty prices.

  20. Lambo2015 Says:

    #10 Considering my parking sensors fail if I forget to knock a thin layer of snow off them, I’m guessing the auto-pilot systems will not work in adverse weather. However when there is potential for ice you should even use cruise control so certainly auto-pilot would be a bad idea.

    Teaching a computer to maneuver a car at 70mph over a road that is as white as the edge lines due to either snow or salt, then throw in a few thousand potholes and patches that break up any vague image of lane lines and I say good luck. So either pay for an option that you can use part time or move southwest.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 Yep, until and unless batteries get a lot cheaper, EVs with 200+ mile range will sell at a big premium over gas counterparts.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 Does anyone know if “autopilot” avoids pot holes, when on clean, dry roads? I don’t know. Just asking.

  23. Ukendoit Says:

    As far as the Kona with all wheel drive, it is available on the gas powered Kona as a $1400 option, but not yet for the EV. I did not see any data on ride height difference between FWD & AWD Konas. I do wonder if AWD will be a future option for the Kona EV? The Hyundai USA consumer site (link on my name) isn’t much help as it doesn’t have as much info yet as the link in today’s transcript.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 One advantage the Kona has over the Bolt and Leaf, is that it is still eligible for the $7500 tax credit, for those who pay that much income tax. Without the credit, the MSRP is $37,500. AWD, if offered, would add to the price, and decrease the range. If they did AWD with a second motor, as would be likely, the car would be quicker, but probably cost ~$40K in base trim.

    It looks like the new Leaf has an MSRP of about $30K, with no tax rebate available. In CR’s tests, the Leaf had 140 mile range, to the Bolt’s 250. EPA ranges are 150 and 238. The Kona EV has 258 mile EPA range, but hasn’t been test yet by CR.

    https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=40520&id=40812&id=40585&id=41056

  25. Larry D. Says:

    22 The main advantage of the Kona, if buyer’s preferences for gas vehicles carry over to pure EVs, is that it is a small crossover, and the Bolt and the Leaf are not. But they messed up the non-grille, they do not know how to do elegant front ends without a grille, like the original VW beetle and the 911 and other cars with rear engines, those makers were able to make elegant front ends. The Kona front end is infested with things that look like golf ball dents or pimples. Ridiculous.

    The link to the comparison is quite instructive. Some observations:

    Apart from the cheap leaf, the 3 have about the same range, the Kona and the Model 3 almost identical, 250 to 260.

    The Model 3 is by far the bigger of the 4 in both dimensions, volume and perfomance, yet, amazingly, it gets the highest EPA MPGE of 123, while the Kina 120, the Bolt 119, and the leaf 112. Some designs are far more efficient than others.

    ON Friday we will have January 2019 sales data. If the past is any indication, I expect none of the three “rivals” to even come close to the Model 3 sales, indeed they will eat the scraps off the Model 3 table. And deservedly so.

    The photos of the 4 are the same legth and width and obscure the fact that the Model 3 is far bigger than the other 3. In addition, it looks poor in this appliance white or off-white in the photo, see it in dark blue after a wash and it is really impressive, a large car, you can almost confuse it with the S from some angles.

    Tomorrow we will have -13 F here, and windchill far higher than that. I wonder if my Merc Diesel will start OK after being in the lot at my job tomorrow afternoon…so far its battery (the same it had when I bought it in Oct 16) has been flawless.

  26. Larry D. Says:

    oops 258 to 260, not 250 to 260 in 23 above.

    Also, Porsche is trying to advertise its Big EV Tesla S fighter. They will have ultra-fast superchargers that will be free to the Porsche Taycan buyers. Of course, there is no free lunch as i expect the buyers to pay an arm and a leg for the car, and also the typical buyer of a $150k or even a $120k EV like the Taycan would not worry a lot about electricity cost.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 If the Kona EV is a small crossover, the Bolt is even more “crossover,” because it is two inches taller, while being the same length and width. BTW, what is a Tesla X in your mind? It doesn’t look much like the usual crossover or SUV, but Mr. Musk calls it an SUV.

    Regarding efficiencies probably part of why the Model 3 is more efficient is that it’s lower and longer, and likely has lower aero drag, though I suspect the motor itself is also a little more efficient than the others. The Model 3 is 6 inches lower, 21 inches longer, and 3 inches wider than the Bolt. The Kona is very close the the size of the Bolt, but 2 inches lower. The Leaf is about “in the middle” in length, and width, but closer to the Bolt and Kona in height.

    Cold weather starting was a major problem with a college room mate’s ’60s Merc diesel, but I suspect things have improved a lot with yours. His had two batteries, which he took inside on cold nights, so they would put out more current to crank the engine.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24 Until and unless Porsche has a LOT of those fast chargers, the Taycan will be another very expensive commuter car for those with a lot of spare money. I suspect it will be a very nice commuter car, though.

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    #24 I believe you made the exact point on why so many other manufacturers have failed at EVs. Electrics are not cheap to make or sell yet many manufacturers were under the thinking that buyers would be people looking to cut the cost of gas. Hence econobox entry cars. The real driving force is environmental and also why Tesla has done so well. He designed a luxury car with a luxury price that just happen to be electric. It would be interesting to see how many EV buyers are really after saving money on gas. Currently there isn’t any EV vehicles that are priced comparable to an ICE unless you keep it 20 years without replacing a battery. So economically it doesn’t make sense and as Larry said those that can afford a 100K car probably don’t care if they spend $200 on electric or $2000 on gas a year.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 People buy expensive EVs for the reasons you say, and maybe more so, because of the way they drive. The only EV I’ve driven is a Volt, which had enough charge that it was in EV mode without the gas engine running, and even with its moderate performance of ~8 seconds 0-60, it “felt good” with the smooth, almost silent acceleration. A near “base” RWD Tesla 3 does 0-60 in 5 seconds and change, which would be very impressive, along with the excellent handling, (though so-so ride from most reviews I’ve seen).

  31. Larry D. Says:

    25 No. Not in a Million years will Bolt ever be a “crossover”. No ands ifs or buts. I wonder if you claim this with a straight face or you say it to get me started.

    First of all the Bolt fails the “Duck” test. it does not LOOK like a crossover. Crossovers are Wagons that look like SUVs. The Bolt does not. AND you can mention all the dimensions you like, and hide the most important one, GROUND CLEARANCE. This is what separates wagons from SUVs.

    The Bolt is not eve

  32. Larry D. Says:

    was cut off. The Bolt is not even a wagon. You may call it a Fat Hatch, or, as i did, a mini-minivan, ie, a vehicle whose cabin length looks like 2/3rds of the length of the cabin of a minivan, with same height and width (again, looks wise).

    You asked me about the Tesla X. I have written many times, it is not an SUV. It would be a minivan, a sleek, stylish minivan, but it is not a minivan in the back, where the roof slopes down and gives it a sportier overall shape, a new kind of vehicle, like the BMW X6 but it looks longer and sleeker. I remember admiring tesla for being able to sell a $120k minivan, with some range anxiety too, where other makers cannot sell a $40k one!

    Re the older Merc Diesels, these were extremely underpowered vehicles. When I was at the TU Berlin in summer 88, I wanted to take a weekend trip on the autobahn, and instead of renting a cheap Fiesta or Golf, which was expensive there more than in the US, I asked a phD student to borrow his merc Diesel from the 70s, (and pay him) but he refused, and told me it had only 70 HP and sometimes he had to get out and push it uphill. No comparison with the powerhouse 400 lbft torque mine has, which not even Ferraris and Lambos match.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29, 30 You seem to have a lot bigger problem with my calling the tall wagon Bolt a crossover, that you have with Elon Musk calling the tall long wagon hatchback Model X an SUV.

    Yeah, my friend’s Merc diesel was slow, and smoky and stinky, with its non-turbo 4 cylinder. I think it was the only car I ever rode in that had a 4-speed manual column shifter.