47 Comments to “AD #2528 – VW Adds More Power to The Jetta, VW Willing to Share EV Platform, Winter Weather Kills EV Range”

1. Brett Cammack Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:08 pm

   Glad they softened the front styling of the Sportage. I started referring to it as “The Angry KIA” immediately after the first time I saw the existing model.

2. Nick Thomas Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:19 pm

   I understand the draw on EVs from the extreme weather, but Sean, what about ICE vehicles?

3. Larry D. Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:31 pm

   First, you should not miss AAH yesterday, the entire show was one of the most interesting.

   1 Whether these Kias are smiling, weeping, or, like the Telluride, have a nose which says “my designer failed Aerodynamics 101 every time he took the course”, you can bet the farm i will never even look at them, let alone buy one.

   2 What about ICEs??? In the winter, ICEs have an advantage, because after the engine is warm, all that waste heat that would otherwise be wasted, can be used to make the interior like an oven, at no extra cost to you. The EV however, does not have huge amounts of waste heat to channel into the cabin, and must waste valuable power and range for those who (very unwisely) want it to also be like an oven in the winter. (they could wear gloves, hats and clothes, alternatively).

   When I start my car on a cold morning from the unheated closed garage, I NEVER turn on the heat fan until a few minutes pass and the coolant temp is visibly rising, at least to half its normal level. It would be stupid to channel cold air inside the cabin, plus you would waste energy running the fan. If it is really cold, I set my seat heater to the lowest of the three settings and after a couple mins then i turn on the heat.

4. lambo2015 Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:39 pm

   The reduction of MPG of my ICE with the heat on is minuscule the A/C seems to be about the same as a EV with a 17% to 20% loss. A 41% drop at 20 deg is pretty significant and it would have been interesting to see if that drop is linear with temperature drop. Does the range decrees even more at say 0 F or plateau at some point?

   Sorry to hear about John Dingle however if you look at pictures of Detroit from 1945 and today, Look at pictures of Hiroshima from 1945 and today and you will see its easier to come back from a nuclear strike than it is 5 decades of Democratic control.

   I surly hope NYPD looses this court battle with Waze. Checkpoints are so boarder-line illegal anyway with stopping everyone without cause looking for the few.

5. Larry D. Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:40 pm

   Is the new Jetta made in the TN plant like the Passat? I had to rent an expensive one-way rental from Toronto when I sent my second car overseas from there (no cost or time efficient public transport was available for the return trip) and instead of the usual lousy Kias, Hyundais, and Dodges, I was given a VW Passat. It looked perfectly fine on the outside, serious styling and no crazy flares like some juvenile japanese designs, but the interior was low rent and you felt it. the cheapest plastics, flimsy controls etc. When I mentioned it to Autonew’s Richard Truett, he told me that I know my cars, apparently most of these TN made Passats are like that.

   Conversely, back in June 2016 I was given courtesy rides in a university car in Shanghai, which happened to be a LWB Jetta, it had much more leg room in the back, and plenty of luxury inside, wood, leather, the works. The driver would drive me to the airport or the train station each time.

   BTW I seriously doubt they still build those early boxy Santana-Passats in China any more. In 2006, SHanghai was still full of Santana taxis, which were most crowded and uncomfortable, there was a big bubble surrounding the driver, and as a result no other seat in the car was roomy enough. BUT nobody could argue with the prices, most cab fares were about $1, less than $2, and we almost never used buses, only the excellent metro, walking, and cabs.

6. lambo2015 Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:47 pm

   Sorry but the Kia was basically indistinguishable from the Nissan Rouge other than grill. They all look so similar and even look like the Ford Escape. The Telluride looks typical of Kia and a copy cat version of a Range Rover, especially with the letters across the hood.

7. Larry D. Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:48 pm

   4 You beat me to it, I agree 100% about the Wreckage the corrupt Dems in Detroit have brought to the city. As long as the automakers were doing well, the corruption and incompetence did not bite too hard, but when they went downhill too, and half the cars in the US ( the better half) were made outside the state, in OH or the south, Detroit really collapsed. So RIP Dingell, but you will not be missed (he also took care of that by installing the trophy wife in the vacant seat)

8. Larry D. Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 12:53 pm

   In yesterday’s AAH, among a ton of interesting material and discussions, John Mc described a ‘doomsday scenario’ that may happen in a few years when 20 automakers and their mothers-in-law will offer pure EVs to a (perceived) tiny market, resulting in the bankruptcy of a ton of them. And it might happen, but why is this anything to write home about? Didn’t the exact same thing happen to ICE automakers in the 20th century? Hundreds went bankrupt or were acquired by the later Big 3.

   I am always amazed at all these wide-eyed gullible investors and venture capitalists that sponsor all these loswers, EV makers or not, who never had a prayer. Fisker, Elio, you name it. What were they thinking?

   In any case, this is how free markets work. “Creative Destruction” is the formal name some economist gave it (Shumpeter?). If you don’t like it, there is always Venezuela, North Korea, and Bernie Sanders. Oh, and that waitress with the attitude, whats her name, the 29 year old, Alexandria or Cairo something.

9. Kit Gerhart Says:
   February 8th, 2019 at 1:39 pm

   If you do a lot of short trips, the loss of mpg with an ICE car in cold weather is quite large. Once the engine and transmission are warmed up, though, there is little loss. Some fluids, like the differential of a rear drive car, and the rear differential of a 4wd vehicle would never get completely “warmed up,” and would steal more power than in warmer weather, but not a huge amount.

   Dems control the local government in most American cities, and some are doing quite well. Maybe, perhaps, the decline of Detroit had something to do with most of the well paying jobs going away, rather than the party of local politicians.

10. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    5 When I was in Shanghai a number of years ago, I was impressed at how well trained the taxi drivers were in driving smoothly, and driving for gas mileage. All of them I rode with rev matched shifts very well, and didn’t run around at constant speed in two gears too low for best gas mileage.

11. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 1:53 pm

    10 Most of those Santanas had 4-speed gear boxes, but I think some had 5. I suppose the later ones have 5-speeds, but maybe they never put automatics in the ones used as taxis.

12. Larry D. Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:00 pm

    9 Detroit is an extreme case, but four hours west in Chigago is another example, and it has been going on for a century, incredible corruption, governorsd that did time, the Daley “machine”. The Daleys were democrats. Back in Boston, there was the oft cited example of “mayor” Curley or something, who was elected while doing time. He was also a Dem.

    Most US States are governed by Rep Governors and Rep legislatures and they seem to be doing far better than the ones with Dems.

    And I could not resist, what in the world is wrong with Virginia? Too many residents sucking on the Government teat in Arlington and in the other suburbs? its Dem governor with his blatantly racist background and blackface photos alongside a KKK costume, the other Dem who also admitted doing the same, and the third one, a black fellow, who was accused by a black woman who came out in public, of sexual assault? And they are still thinking if they should resign, because if they do, the Reps will rule the state? This is what concerns them…

    And back to Boston, I knew personally the long time speaker of the State House and his family, he had that job for almost 20 years, and he was forced to resign in disgrace because he had the stupidity to accept a bribe in the form of a ($2,000 if i remember well) check! Oh, he was a dem too, although less left than Mike Dukakis or Ted Kennedy (who I also met and talked to, just once, briefly)

13. Larry D. Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:01 pm

    10 The Shanghai Taxi drivers in 2006 wore white gloves and did not speak a word of English. You also had little chance to tell them where to go in Chinese, they would not understand you usually. So you had to show them some kind of card, a business card of the hotel you were staying which had the address on it or which they knew anyway, etc. Which means if a taxi driver could not read, he was toast.

14. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    13 When I was in Shanghai, I mainly wanted to go between the hotel where I was staying, and the downtown business area. The hotel staff would tell the taxi driver where to take us, and when we wanted to get back to our hotel, we would go to any hotel in the downtown area, and show a taxi driver a card from our hotel. Some of the drivers spoke some English, but not a lot.

    12 I can come up with a long list of corrupt Republicans at all levels, but I won’t bother. As far as Virginia, yeah, it’s a mess, and I suspect a lot of other politicians of both parties are cringing, knowing about some pictures that might be out there. I bet there are a lot of them. I lived in Virginia for a year in the mid ’70s, and even where I was, in Fairfax County, none of the the Northam stuff would have been shocking at all.

15. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    13 In 2006, did a lot of the Shanghai taxi drivers smoke, and if so, did they offer cigarettes to the passengers? In 1994, they did, and they did.

16. Dave Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:29 pm

    Yes EV’s have less range in wintertime short trips but then close to home to plug in more regularly and you don’t have to wait for the engine to warm up to smooth out or get heat, heated seats draw way less power just remember to plug in more often

17. Larry D. Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    15 I don’t remember any of them smoking in a taxi. If they did, I think I would remember because I can’t stand the smell of cigarettes (mostly the burnt paper part of it)

    I had a few free days between lectures in 2006 and took the train from Shanghai to Beijing, around June 20. A great 12-hour trip 7 PM to 7 AM, the compartment had 4 single beds, I was traveling with a woman and her two teen kids, and on the return with three young students who spoke english ok. When I arrived in Beijing, the taxis all refused to take me to the hotel, and as I was carrying some luggage (I stayed 4 days) I could not walk to it, so for a few minutes I was trying to find a way. Then somebody offered, for a fee (about 1-2$) to find me a cab, which he did, and the cab was around $1-2 more, and i was at the hotel. I asked them why they refused and he told me there was some construction/repairs and one way traffic around that area and it was not worth their time to take that fare.

18. Larry D. Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:43 pm

    17 con’d in 2006, I thought they were taking too many risks when driving in Shanghai, they would drive, at speed, way too close to the cars next to them, something I have to do when I drive downtown from the summer home to an apartment, and the local narrow streets are filled with parked cars left and right, and the E320 has barely 1-2 inches clearance on each side. of course I go 5 MPH when that happens.

19. merv Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    I’m currently thinking of a new vw golf gti purchase,but that new jetta gli may suit me even better

20. Phred Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 2:52 pm

    Great “reveal” about the loss of EV range with temperature extremes. Now “reveal” the power profile decay with loss of vehicle speed as the EV battery power drains down to “Zero”. Disclose how the car begins to slow down as the electrical power in the battery approaches “Zero”. This is the ultimate “Range anxiety” nightmare for driving an EV as an everyday driver.

21. Bob Wilson Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 4:06 pm

    The third winter with two, plug-in hybrids, the trick is to leave the car plugged in overnight and start preconditioning 20-30 min before leaving. The cabin starts warm, the windows free from frost and ice, and battery brought to optimum temperature. The range effect is closer to 10-15% due to air and tire drag but then I own and have these cars in my hands.

22. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    17,18 I suspected that drivers smoking while carrying fares would have stopped in the years between ’94 and ’06, but you never know.

    The driving was crazy when I was there. In addition to taxis, I rode in buses provided for the group I was with. They drove fast, horn blaring, in the mix of bicycles, mopeds, and small scooters. All drivers paid little attention to lane markings, aiming for any hole big enough for their vehicle to fit through. Surprisingly,I saw no serious accidents.

23. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 4:50 pm

    19 If you don’t need the utility of the Golf, yeah, it would be worth checking out the Jetta. Most recent US market Jettas have had “cheaped out” interiors compared to the Golf, but that may have changed with the new Jetta.

24. Barry Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 7:40 pm

    I’ve personally experienced the reduced electric mileage range on the Bolt EV. It’s no fun driving with no heat on in 30 degree weather just to make it to my destination without needing to recharge! I’m glad to see the independent testing to show an EV’s more realistic expected range!

25. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 8th, 2019 at 11:17 pm

    24 Yep, to use an EV in the winter in cold climates, you need to figure on half the “official” range, if you use cabin heat.

26. Bob Wilson Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 12:59 am

    I’ve set the link to the URL of the report. One interesting, under reported statement:

    “In isolation, hot and cold ambient temperatures resulted in modest reductions of driving range and equivalent fuel economy. . . . an ambient temperature of 20°F resulted in a 12 percent decrease of combined driving range . . . an ambient temperature of 95°F resulted in a 4 percent decrease of combined driving range . . .”

    This matches my experience using pre-conditioning to warm the cabin in the cold and cool the cabin in the heat WHILE the car is plugged in. It typically takes ~1 kWh and tops off the battery. But there are passive techniques that help too.

    Having always lived in the South and Midwest, I park where my cars will be in the shade when I’m ready to leave. A windshield solar screen works best if put under the wipers, outside the car. Our BMW has a shortie cover for the windshield and side windows.

27. XA351GT Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 7:47 am

    To the Autoline Staff, I have a question what are you guys going to do if the Democrat Green New Deal actually would happen? That’s the one being pushed Occasional-Cortex that would END all use of Fossil fuels in the US, No cars ,buses,trucks or Planes. People could say well then you’ll have to have a EV , but what will charge it. Because natural gas, coal and oil fired power plants would be outlawed, they don’t want nuclear which leaves what? Hydro,wind and solar which account for less then 10% of the power production in the US. There is no explanation of how or what would replace what exists today. This is truly a terrifying vision of the future. I don’t even think that insanity would accurately describe it.

28. XA351GT Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 7:51 am

    On reduced range for EVs in winter. Well if you didn’t think that would happen you were kidding yourself. In extremely hot weather requiring a A/C to be used will also cause a massive drop in range. Anything that heats or cools uses a lot of amps which will effect the range a lot.

29. ChuckGrenci Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 8:01 am

    XA, while the genesis of this Green Deal is associated with proponents from the Democractic party, from what I’ve read, it has not gotten any santion or even general support from mainstream party members. Dead on arrival if it ever gets that far. Seems radical left thinking without full rational review of all fallout and possible consequences. JMO

30. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 9:13 am

    27,29 I don’t think anyone needs to worry about Ms. Ocasio-Cortez’s Deal becoming a reality, except for some smaller moves in that direction, like more renewable energy, etc. She knows that most of it is not going to happen, kind of like Trump has known all along that a wall from San Diego to Brownsville, paid for by Mexico, is not going to be built.

    As Chuck says, the Green New Deal in its original form, is not supported by the majority of Democrats, who know, and will admit, that it is not realistic.

31. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 9:24 am

    26 Interesting, and informative article. It looks like the bottom line, is that when driving an EV in the winter, you should dress warmly, and not use the cabin heat, but your pre-heating or cooling the cabin while plugged in helps a lot.

32. Larry D. Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 10:05 am

    22 It was still much like this in 2006, but in 2016 it was really strange, because when I finished my 3 week stay and the U driver took me back to the Shanghai Airport, the roads were empty at 9 AM, very little traffic. It was as if I was in Idaho or Montana( just warmer). Very strange, because this area was not in some western desert but at the end of the metro stations of Shanghai, a city with over 20 mill population. Apparently the land near the sea where the U was was not fit for agriculture and the state gave it to the U, which sold its valuable land in its downtown Shanghai campus (founded in 1909, still during the emperors time) and used the millions it got to erect dozens of big buildings, landscape the area, etc. it took me 20 mins to half an hour each day to walk from my 11th floor apt at the end of that campus to the building where my office was.

33. Larry D. Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 10:09 am

    24, 25, 26 and especially 20. As 28 pointed out, if you seem surprised (or pretend to be) because of the range reduction results of the AAA tests in cold weather, you are probably kidding us, yourself, or just acting. Like they acted shocked that there is gambling in Rick’s cafe. Ludicrous. When do batteries, even your tiny ICE batteries, grow weak? Not in the summer heat, always in the coldest days of the year, if at all. Even mild Hybrids, 20 years ago, clearly displayed a SHARP drop in the MPG in the winter.

34. Larry D. Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 10:14 am

    27 As other’s said, there is no chance in hell this may ever happen. But if they even don’t want the 100% clean nuke plants, it is really a disgrace and the height of hypocricy. it was the same dems, especially that despicable Harry Reid, who threw his weight around in Congress and refused to use the ultra-safe Nuke waste disposal site in the Yucca Mountain in NV, even after the Feds spent more than $4 bill fixing the place to be ultra-safe. And all this in NV, which was the site of thousands of nuke bomb tests for decades and the Yucca site would do absolutely nothing to make anything there any worse.

    Prices of Solar panels have come down big time, however, and there could be attractive solutions with solar powered Supercharger newtworks especially in the sunny warm states of the sunbelt.

35. Larry D. Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 10:17 am

    34 con’t unfortunately the greedy vultures (oops, lawyers) have made Nuke plants actually too expensive to operate. A few decades ago they were advertised as producing virtually cost-free energy and housewives were promised that their electric would be free at home!

36. Larry D. Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 10:23 am

    29 Right, but this radical left stuff is the only thing you hear from the current, several, Dem Candidates for 2020. They seem to outdo each other in radicalism. Nothing even close to JFK’s conservative, econ Literate, Dem party. Or even BILL (not HILL) Clinton, who is the only Democrat alive that can talk about economic issues and make sense to me.

    And while on the subject, I have never seen such a bunch of utterly unqualified 3-year olds claiming they are fit to be the… “Planetarch”, as the prez of the US is called overseas. Ideally the Prez should be a mature, even senior person, who has had the experience of governing a seriously big state, or at least equivalent executive experience in the private sector! These characters are often first-term congressmen, or even a mayor from South Bend IN who was on CSPAN yesterday (he looked like a 5 year old btw). Are these people serious? I cannot take a single one seriously.

    And BTW, if Trump does not run in 2020, which is extremely unlikely, these amateurs above will have a much harder time if they have to face a moderate, less controversial Rep like Mitt Romney or similar outstanding candidate (As long as this candidate DOES campaign and DOES fight, unlike Romney vs Obama, where ROmney did not!)

37. XA351GT Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 10:30 am

    Well lets hope that this Green New deal is DOA ,because I don’t know about everyone else ,but Toasterline.tv doesn’t sound appealing to me . Take away cars , that’s just un-American

38. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 11:06 am

    34, 35. Speaking of nuclear power, the most expensive uncompleted plant in history was Marble Hill in southern Indiana, owned by my utility. It was abandoned partly because of public fear after the Three Mile Island accident, but was also having huge cost over-runs. It was abandoned before the Chernobyl accident.

39. ChuckGrenci Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 11:32 am

    #38 Kit,
    SCE&G with Santee Cooper within the last couple of years abandoned the Jasper nuclear facility to the tune of 9 billion dollars and will never generated a watt of energy. SCE&G has been bought by Dominion Energy of Virginia and Santee Cooper is looking for buyers in order to get out of this boondoggle. Even after acquisition, the rate payers will be on the hook for 2 billion dollars (I’m one of them and will be paying for the next 20 years with no return in energy). Nuclear has major problems; at least any new plants coming on line.

40. PHILIP Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 1:29 pm

    DUI checkpoints are unconstitutional. I have no problem with cops pulling over drivers they observe driving erratically, but doing a stop on every driver simply driving down the road is criminal.

41. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 9th, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Nuclear plants are still being planned and built in some places, like Russia and China, but not here. I read that a number of Chernobyl-type reactors are still in use. Chernobyl itself was probably a learning experience.

42. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 10th, 2019 at 10:13 am

    39 It sounds like your abandoned plant was even more expensive than Marble Hill, which cost only ~2.5B when construction was stopped. That was in about 1984, though.

43. ChuckGrenci Says:
    February 10th, 2019 at 11:14 am

    42, yeah inflation I seem to remember some other abandonments elsewhere in the country (lately) but don’t remember the specifics. One of our problems was mis-management and non-oversight (oh, and I think Westinghouse went bankrupt).

44. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 10th, 2019 at 5:45 pm

    I found that some holding company now has the Westinghouse reactor operation, but I don’t know what they are doing. There are a lot of Westinghouse reactors around the world, but I don’t know who keeps them going.

45. ChuckGrenci Says:
    February 11th, 2019 at 8:46 am

    Toshiba was the parent company and settled with SC segment for a billion plus but that still left us in a lurch. Toshiba was was also involved with a Georgia company that sustained losses.
    I’m not against nuclear, just the ineptness of execution and sound operation of these type plants.

46. Kit Gerhart Says:
    February 11th, 2019 at 9:49 am

    According to a wikipedia article, Russia gets about 30% of their electricity from nuclear. They are probably less concerned about safety than in the US, but they must be doing things more efficiently, in general.

    There is a nuclear plant about 80 miles south of me in Florida, which seems to be doing ok. It has been operating since 1976. It was updated a few years ago, increasing output about 15%.

47. Brett Cammack Says:
    February 11th, 2019 at 12:45 pm

    Don’t worry, when Miami, Tampa, and New York City are underwater, you can blame those whackadoodle hairbrained liberals and Democrats for it.

    Not a doubt in my mind that you will.