AD #2543 – New SEAT EV Looks a Lot Like a Tesla, GM Management Shakeup, Ferrari Takes Wraps Off the F8 Tributo

March 1st, 2019 at 11:35am

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Runtime: 6:52

0:23 Tesla Plans to Close Most Stores
1:12 GM Management Shakeup
2:05 Toyota Teams Up to Create HD Maps
3:07 FedEx To Test Autonomous Delivery Robots
3:46 New SEAT EV Looks a Lot Like a Tesla
4:48 Porsche Clarifies Macan’s Future
5:27 Ferrari Takes Wraps Off the F8 Tributo

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63 Comments to “AD #2543 – New SEAT EV Looks a Lot Like a Tesla, GM Management Shakeup, Ferrari Takes Wraps Off the F8 Tributo”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    Hi Shawn, good show.

    “For example, the company is now offering the Model 3 for $35,000, which was the original target for its starting price. Before the shift, the cheapest Model 3 you could but was about $43,000. ”

    Could you find out what, if any, are the differences from the $43k model to today’s $35k model 3? I am curious if there is $8k worth of difference, or only $2k, or none.

  2. Larry D. Says:

    February sales are out and all makers suffered declines, Toyota, FCA, Nissan, Honda.

    The new (!) Leaf did particularly badly, selling a mere 654 units. That’s less than 2/3rds of one DAY of Tesla production. Truly Pitiful.

  3. Larry D. Says:

    The new Seat EV Concept looks good, but 7.5 0-60 is truly dismal these days, even for a dirty gas hatch, much more for a pure EV. They better put a bargain basement price on it, if they ever want to sell a VW clone of this in the USA. (In Europe and China, it’s another story, people there are used to outrageous prices)

  4. Larry D. Says:

    BTW, this “Autonomous Delivery Robot” that looks like a small fridge people buy for their offices, plus wheels, what is to stop anybody from stealing not just its contents, but the robot itself as well?

  5. regular viewer Says:

    Larry D., Looking forward to when you become an official member of the AutoLine team

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1 The $43K one had the mid-range battery, which included a fancier interior. That car now seems to cost $40K, but maybe there was some small change in features over the last few days.

    https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#payment

  7. joe Says:

    Because of the people leaving from GM due to retirement or other reasons,I’m not sure if you can call it a shakeup.

  8. John McElroy Says:

    @Larry #1 – The main differences are: The $35,000 Model 3 has 220-miles of range and “Standard Interior,” while the $43,000 Model 3 had 264-miles of range (Mid-Range pack) and the “Premium Interior.”

    It would take a little more digging, but here’s what’s listed with the Standard Interior: tinted glass roof, auto dimming and power folding mirrors, manual seat controls, cloth material, base trim, basic audio, standard maps and navigation, Bluetooth, driver profiles and center console storage with USB. The car also only comes in black and can do 0-60 in 5.6-seconds.

    $2,000 more gets you 20-miles more range and 0-60 in 5.3-seconds.

  9. Sean McElroy Says:

    *comment #7 is from me, not John.*

  10. Sean McElroy Says:

    ADDITION TO #7 – It would take a little more digging to see what’s included with the Premium Interior…

  11. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Larry #4 – Not to mention the cameras that are all over it, but I’m sure it has a tracking device as well. I would guess there’s also some sort of alert if it deviates from its intended path.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 The 7.5 sec 0-60 is slow for an EV, but it is far from “truly dismal these days, even for a dirty gas hatch.”

    Corolla hatch 8.7 seconds
    Elantra GT 8.7 seconds
    Focus non-ST 9.8 seconds
    base Golf 8.7 seconds

    Others are similar

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    9 Here are descriptions of the Model 3 interiors, if this link goes the right place.

    https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#battery

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12 It didn’t go the right place, but if you click on the grey Standard interior, Partial premium interior, etc., you will get the descriptions.

  15. GM Veteran Says:

    I am not convinced that closing the retail stores is a smart move for Tesla. When people spend a large chunk of money, they want to be able to see and feel the item they are considering. As proof, I would bet that Tesla sales are much lower in states that do not have Tesla sales outlets. You don’t see many Teslas in Michigan, a state that currently does not allow Tesla sales showrooms. This could be a move that is reversed pretty quickly if sales are negatively affected.

  16. Lambo2015 Says:

    #10 If anyone tried to steal the Fed-Ex robot the defense system is engaged. After a 5 second audible warning for touching the robot a full 50,000 Volt taser is deployed to the entire exterior of the robot. The police are dispatched as well as medical.
    Not really, I’m kidding

  17. Lambo2015 Says:

    The Fed-Ex robot looks like a great idea (kind of)as long as your home and can remove the package. Hopefully it has the ability to unload the package by itself. Seems very inefficient to deliver one package at a time as the current trucks run a route and deliver many, However if loaded with multiple deliveries what keeps a person from taking out all the packages?

  18. Larry D. Says:

    7, 8 Thanks, Sean.

    11 The 7.5 of the SEAT concept EV is in the same ball park as the 0-60s of the slowpoke dirty gas hatches. Compare this 7.5 of the concept EV to the 5.6 the cheapest, and far bigger than the hatch, Model 3 offers. This 100% supports my comment, and my conclusion that VW-SEAT better put a bargain basement price on this hatch if it has any hopes of any sales in the US market. Look at the Leaf. 654 units in ALL of February. Truly Pitiful.

  19. bradley cross Says:

    SEAT concept looks great from the side and rear. Model Y?
    Alan Batey was a terrible presenter on stage. But good for him for doing 40 years, the benefits will be sweet.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 No, 7.5 seconds is QUICKER than 8.7 or 9.8 seconds. OK, it depends upon the size of the “ball park.”

    I agree that in the unlikely event VW launches the Seat brand in the US, that car would need to be relatively bargain priced. Lets not forget, though, that only a small percentage of drivers pay much attention to 0-60 times. The top selling “SUV” in the US, the Rav4, does 0-60 in 9.3 seconds.

  21. Larry D. Says:

    18 we are talking about EVs, not dirty SUVs. People do not buy SUVs for their acceleration, but in the EV segment, we know that the only successful Company, Tesla, is successful not because of any penny-pinching MPG or other cosrt issues, but because of the wildly superior performance of their vehicles even compared to million-dollar supercars in some indices and versions. And yes, 7.5 and 8.5 are in the same ball park, and that is a different ball park than that of the 4.-5.5 of the Model 3, and that itself is in a still very different park than the Gloriouys 2.9 or less 0-60 you can do with the pricier Model S versions, Ludicrous modes, etc.

    The proof is in the sales numbers. Compliance EVs are the kiss of death. Performance EVs sell.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    OK, so Chevy Bolt and base Model 3 are in the same ball park, 6.8 vs 5.6 seconds 0-60.

  23. Larry D. Says:

    20 really? Who said that almost SEVEN seconds are in the same ball park with 5.6? It looks much closer to the 7.5 of the SEAT.

    If in doubt, check the sales successes and failures.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The estimate for the Seat is 1.2 seconds quicker than the world leading Golf, and 2.3 seconds quicker than the Focus, and that’s “in the ball park.”

    The Model 3 is 1.3 seconds quicker than the Bolt, and that’s not?

    Actually, .3 seconds should probably be added to the 5.6 for the Tesla. The 6.8 for the Bolt is CR’s published number. CR got 5.3 seconds with the Model 3 Long Range they tested, while Tesla claims 5.0. A similar testing difference could probably be expected for the base 3.

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    19 Dead on! the EVs that sell, are because they offer stellar performance with a sleek attractive design. The econobox’s with funky designs do not sell, simply because the fuel savings isn’t great enough to offset the cost difference of buying an EV. So people are not buying them for their gas savings. They are buying and mostly the Teslas because they are fun to drive. Its basically a vehicle that was created to obsolete gas tanks but has become popular due to the performance and in fact is more expensive than a ICE of similar size. (not performance).

  26. ChuckGrenci Says:

    The F8 looks sweet. Sure it’s just another unobtainiunm for the most part, but I LIKE IT. While still just an evolved 488, I think Ferrari made the right moves to advance an already great vehicle.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 Yep, even a base Leaf, with 151 mile range, costs $30K. A new, longer range one is on the way, which will, presumably, cost even more. For econobox, and econobox-looking EVs to sell, they still need to get a lot cheaper.

    24 Somehow, I have a hard time getting excited about cars that cost 5 times as much as my Corvette, which was kind of a “splurge” purchase for me, but the F8 does look pretty cool.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    For the Elon Musk fans out there, a test launch of the SpaceX rocket with the Crew Dragon module is scheduled for 2:49 am tomorrow.

    https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/02/28/spacexs-crew-dragon-rolls-out-for-test-flight/

  29. Sean McElroy Says:

    Just because they are both EVs, does not mean the SEAT and Tesla are comparable vehicles. You wouldn’t compare a Toyota to a Mercedes-AMG, would you? Performance has always been a part of Tesla’s DNA. From reading the press release, SEAT seems to be billing the el-Born as a good commuter car. Also, the Model 3 has about 60 more horsepower than the SEAT. Shouldn’t that be factored in as well? When you’ve got companies like Polestar that say they are going right after Tesla, then, yeah, let’s compare the heck out of them. But I don’t see this as an apples to apples comparison.

    Also, I’m not completely sold on this thought that people only want performance EVs. There’s just not enough in the market yet for me to buy into it. If Tesla’s only secret is performance, than I think it’s in big trouble. We’ll be seeing everything from small commuter cars to big SUVs and Trucks. And it won’t be long before they’re here. So, I can’t wait to kick back, crack a beer and see how this all plays out.

  30. Larry D. Says:

    26 thanks, I took a look and will look out for any videos later. I found the launch of the “Falcon Heavy a few months ago, with two out of the three boosters landing safely back to be reused, thrilling, and posted a 15 min video of it from PBS on Facebook. I don’t share Musk’s dreams of colonizing Mars, if I wanted to live in a -200 F world that would cost hundreds of billions to get me there, I will compromise, spend only ten grand, and go to Antarctica and content myself with a mere -100 F.

  31. Larry D. Says:

    27 Sean, I fully agree and also will enjoy the thrilling ride, esp today with the February sales coming out.

    There is sure room for performance EVs as well as commuter EVs with more modest acceleration.

    My point is if you make one of the latter, such as the Bolt and the Leaf and the SEAT concept, and sell it for almost the same price of today’s base Model 3, you will suffer a humiliating disaster and go bankrupt (or, if you are part of a bigger company, lose billions for it).

    So if SEAT and VW know what is good for them, they will price these basic commuter/city EVs appropriately so they can sell them. Which means $20k and not $30 and $40k!

    Polestar 2 will only survive because it will sell in China, where it is also made. Even Yugo and that cheap renault Romanian deal, Dacia, if they made an EV, I am sure they would do great selling them in China too.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 If you happen to be up at that time, there will be a live webcast of the launch.

    https://www.spacex.com/webcast

    I think NASA will also have a webcast. I’ll probably get up to watch it “in person” from about 15 miles away. They plan to recover the booster, but unfortunately, landing it on the barge a few hundred miles away, rather than here. The coolest part of watching the launches, especially night ones, is seeing the booster recovery when they do it on land a few miles away. The dual recovery on land from the Falcon Heavy was really impressive to see.

  33. Lambo2015 Says:

    27 I agree that EVs are not being sold strictly for performance but currently that is the only real advantage they offer. So sure you have some folks out there buying EVs to help save the planet but its costing them as they could buy a similar ICE car for half the price. So kudos to them for spending their money to do the right thing for the environment even if its not a sound financial purchase.
    Until EVs come even close to the prices of the ICE counterparts they need to offer something extra or unique like what Tesla did. You have to allow people to justify the extra cost with something cause currently most EVs cost more than the gas you would save in 10 years of driving.

  34. Dan Says:

    autonomous delivery robots are a waste of time, research and $$. An address or GPS coordinates will only get you to the vicinity of someone’s home. Getting the package into somebodies hands or right at the doorstep is a whole other matter.

  35. cwolf Says:

    I share in everyone’s fascination with EV’s but I fail to see the desire to have one at this time. Sure they accelerate quicker, but they cost much more than any ICE and that acceleration reduces the range a great deal; And the range is not what I call fantastic, either. Drive in winter climates with one of these puppies using a mediocre heater and radio and you just reduced range about half! I don’t think I want to worry if I can make it back home. And how about charging these things; A 120 V outlet might get a half charge in a night or is that 24 hours? Oh! when on the road, where is the nearest charging station and how far is it? Will the charger adapt to my car? I also read that many fast charge stations (a 1/2 hr at best) cost as much as filling up with gas!
    And who in the heck wants to pay 30-40 grand for a mid-sized car when every Tom, Dick and Harry manufacturer is phasing them out for SUV’s?
    And finally, I think it’s great that EV buyers are willing to pay at least $20k more just to save the planet… but are they really?

  36. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Amazon already delivers (leaves) your package, takes a photo and sends a message to your phone, so the robot addition while expensive and limiting in scope and size of deliverable items would certainly be doable.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’d think the robots might work in low crime areas with single family houses and sidewalks. I can’t see it working for either of my homes, though. One is a 5 story condo, with 7 units per floor. The other is a house a mile from town on a road with no sidewalks, and a steep dropoff on both sides of the road.

  38. Bobby T Says:

    If the el Born doesn’t sell, will the pundits call it the still Born?

  39. Larry D. Says:

    30 I am never up at 2:45 AM, not even on New year’s these days. I wake up quite early, but always after at least 4 AM. Usually 5 AM or so. I’ll catch it later.

    February sales show that maybe Tesla HAD to offer that $35k option. Nobody has accurate stats, but the highest so far was 18,700 for Feb Tesla sales, down from 31,700 the same source estimated in Jan 2019. It seems the high-end Model 3 Buyers dried out, and they have to get to the 400,000 who were promised $35k and waited 3 years to get one already.

    March sales should give us a better idea, and then April hopefully we will have accurate 1st quarter sales for Tesla as well as for GM and Ford.

    Genesis, all of them together, sold barely 1,528 units. Compare even with the “weak” Tesla sales above. Also compare with JLR, 11,616 units, 8 times that of Genesis (about 3,500 Jags and 8,000 Land Rovers), and the lame as usual Volvo with its 6,635 units (I predicted 6,666. Not bad, eh?) for all its models.

  40. Larry D. Says:

    34 Can’t they leave the packages with the Condo Office/Management?

    I had a prof. from India in Grad school, very interesting guy, good math and game theory background and research, and a good friend later, who had the idea that we should abolish mailing addresses and save a ton of time by replacing them with latitude, longitude, and altitude of our location. That would serve well if you send a modern missile there, but I am not sure how it would work with mail, even if drones carried it.

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

    JLR sold a lot more than Genesis, but with many more models, including fashionable SUVs. Land Rover and Jaguar each have 7 or 8 different models, while Genesis has only 3, all of them sedans. Volvo has about 7 models, including 3 SUV/CUVs. Yeah, none of those companies did very well compared to Tesla, but it looks like Tesla may be in trouble. They need that Model Y. Maybe it will be in production by the time they catch up with the orders for the cheaper Model 3s.

    Tesla should do a Model 3 wagon. A 3 wagon should drive just like the sedan, but would be more utilitarian. Tesla has been doing better at selling sedans than other car companies, so maybe they could sell wagons. As it stands now, they’d have the only rear drive wagon in the US market, if they made one.

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Since Tesla is closing their stores, presumably removing the option of trading a car, and saving on sales tax, I wonder if they could work out arrangements for customers to sell their car to Carmax, or someone like that, and have it written up as a trade.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    37 The model Y is a three row SUV so it seems that Tesla will repeat its previous strategy to sell the expensive versions first and then the cheaper smaller 2 row SUV. This is correct financially. I don’t know how a Model 3 wagon would sell here, but I assume Tesla has done their market research.

    Another way to substantially increase sales would be to lawyer up and lobby so many big states like TX and MI would allow Tesla stores and direct sales. Maybe they thought about this and decided its chances are low, hence they offered the $35k 3 and to save $ they close down stores and gallery, and sell their models online instead.

    Our sample here is tiny, but it seems it worked hours after the $35k 3 became available, Wilson got one, despite already owning two green cars with low miles. If I was one of the 400,000 who waited 3 years for a base 3, I would also buy it right away. After all, this is what they waited for, there is still half the tax credit available, and who knows how long Tesla will offer a $35k 3?

  44. Larry D. Says:

    Notable Feb sales numbers

    Ram sold 40,000 vs Silverado only 35,000. Sierra was not even in the top 10 trucks, while Tacoma was 10th with 18,000+. No Jeep in the top 10 Trucks. Analysts speculate the lower priced Jeeps like the Renegade sold badly because owners had trouble financing the purchase in jan-Feb

    Corolla was the best selling car (with a lot of help from fleet sales) w 29,000, then Camry 24k, Civic 22k and Accord 20k.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    30 I’d not have the patience to see it live anyway, I just saw it by skipping most of the 1st hour and watching the takeoff and the landing. Was anything special about this mission I missed?

  46. ChuckGrenci Says:

    This guy breaks down the newly announced Model 3 @ 35K. If anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Griajiw-xOg&t=647s

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41 Nothing special, as far as the launch. People are making it a big deal, because it carries a capsule that will eventually take people to and from the space station. I went outside to see it, but there were clouds blocking the view. I watched the landing on tv.

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It didn’t carry people this time, but will autonomously rendezvous with the space station.

  49. ChuckGrenci Says:

    43,44
    Boeing is also working on transporting astronauts into space. Boeing Starliner; I don’t have any particulars on where they (Boeing) are in their program but I think both companies (SpaceX and Boeing) are talking mid ’19. Exciting times for space again.

    Kudos to SpaceX for their launch of their Crew Dragon capsule.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    45 They plan to launch an uncrewed Starliner in April, using an Atlas rocket. SpaceX and Boeing appear to be within a few months of each other, with their first crewed flights.

    Personally, I don’t quite see the point of putting humans in space. We learn a lot more with Mars probes like Opportunity, and probes to the outer planets, like New Horizons, and at less cost and risk, than we do with manned missions.

    That said, the Apollo missions 50 years ago were really cool, in a “science fiction becomes reality” sort of way when I was a young adult.

  51. Bob Wilson Says:

    Thursday about 8 PM, I charged $2.5k to order my Model 3 with Deep Blue Metallic paint, $1.5k, and the current Autopilot, $3k. I was not limited to the best (aka. least bad) car from the dealer and forced, port options.

    The next day, my bank approved a $40k, new car loan, 4.25%. Then I noticed Tesla financing had a 3.75% rate. With Tesla financing and the Prius trade-in (see web link,) I’ll have a $22.9k loan and won’t have to waste time selling the 2017 Prius Prime.

    This has been easier than buying the Prius Prime via dealer Internet sales and driving it 1,200 miles home. It is the difference between ordering exactly what you want from an omelet chef versus picking over a breakfast buffet.

  52. Larry D. Says:

    47 of all the Tesla 3s I have seen here, the one with your exact color looked the best. It was parked behind me at the public library and close to my bumper, and at first I thought it was an S, it looked that big. Also looked really good in the deep blue color and the chrome contrasting.

    If I could ask, how many miles on the Prius Prime and how much did you buy it for new? I looked into such a car for my summer home, they were mostly 2012-13 models at higher prices than the E 320 Diesels (2007-2009) and safety had priority in my decision, but if these primes had 60 miles range, I’d buy them. Would almost never have to use gas in local driving there if they did.

    I have never bought a car with financing. On the other hand I have not bought a new car since 1991. When I buy from private owners I just give them a check, but the last two I got from dealers I also gave them a check for the modest full amount.

  53. Larry D. Says:

    46 I also generally oppose these very expensive manned flights, unless they could cure cancer or something. The reason both the US and the USSR engaged in this expensive space race in the 60s was not for science but for propaganda purposes, Cold war, the Soviets wanted to prove Socialism was superior to capitalism. However there were lots of collateral benefits from space research to other segments of science and technology.

  54. Kit Gerhart Says:

    47 To me, the bad part of Tesla’s closing their stores, would be that you probably wouldn’t have the option of trading your present car as you are doing. From your numbers, though, it looks like, in your state, you pay sales tax on the full price of the new car. In Florida and Indiana, you pay it only on the price difference if you trade in a car to a dealer.

    I have ordered most of the new cars I’ve bought over the years, to get the color and options (or lack of options) that I wanted.

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    48 You did well not to buy a 2012-2013 Prius plug-in. It was not a very serious effort as a plug-in, with limited range. Also, the gas engine would start at anything more than very leisurely acceleration, even if fully charged. The current Prius Prime has more electric range, 25 miles EPA, and more electric-only power than the earlier Prius plug-in.

  56. Larry D. Says:

    54, 55 I had three projects with Boeing, two in manufacturing of the 777, supervised a team who worked in Everett WA (Boeing’s huge plant) in the summer, the third was sort of a fellowship-award they give 9 of every year, you spend 1 week in the Seattle area first, (Airplanes 101 sort of, also saw JFK’s Air Force One in a museum there), 6 weeks with a project you are placed in, and the 8th we spent at Seal Beach Boeing facilities to present our results etc. Boeing used to have 13 plants in CA but by 2003 they had just one left there. State not business friendly. I lived in Long Beach for the 7 weeks, and commuted to Boeing’s research facility in Anaheim. 26 miles, 40 mins each way, not as bad as one would expect of the LA area.

    I knew Boeing for their commercial and defense jets, but there I also saw they made satellites, also saw the first drones of which lots are shown in movies, that look like tiny 747s (bump over the front).

  57. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I live about ten miles from the new Boeing plant in S.C. They build the 787 and variants. One reason they built here was the lack of unions (though a small union for the line workers has made its presence). This is one impressive plant and quite an operation. Seems a top notch company.

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    A college friend recently retired from Boeing, and saw the company go through a lot of changes. When he started, the company’s business was mostly airliners, with a small amount of military business, like updating and maintaining B-52s. Over the years, they “bought into” a lot of military business, not the least was McDonnell-Douglass, which was more a maker of fighter planes than airliners when they were absorbed by Boeing.

  59. Bob Wilson Says:

    #49 The Prius Prime has 16,000 miles and the first warranty ends in January 2020. I paid $28k for it new. I’ve added a full size spare and a 2” receiver hitch (no trailer lights)

  60. Kit Gerhart Says:

    55. Did you trade your Prime to a Tesla store?

  61. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/04/tesla-model-y-reveal-march-14-elon-musk/

    “Tesla will unveil its Model Y small crossover on March 14 at an event at L.A. Design Studio, Chief Executive Elon Musk said on Sunday.

    “Model Y, being an SUV, is about 10 percent bigger than Model 3, so will cost about 10 percent more & have slightly less range for same battery,” Musk said in a tweet.”

    This sounds good. It does not clarify if it will be the base Y that will ‘cost’ (sell for?) 10% over $35k or the top Y that will sell for 10% over the top Model 3.

    Also, the conclusion “is about 10 percent bigger than Model 3, so will cost about 10 percent more” is inaccurate and/or wrong. First, he keeps talking about cost but he means price, or cost to consumer (before any credits and options) but more importantly, it is NOT linear, it does not mean if you make it 10% bigger (ie, empty space) it costs you 10% more. It costs you far less than 10% more to make, so this should help Tesla’s profitability.

  62. Larry D. Says:

    57 con’d It also said the Y will have 70% in common w the Model 3, so I expect it to be sort of the Model 3 wagon suggested here. No Tesla has a lot of ground clearance like SUVs and crossovers, not even the X, so I’d be surprised if the Y does.

  63. Larry D. Says:

    My conclusion (57, 58) is that this should work out. Once more, Tesla is out with popular new models that are mass produced long before any of the other “Tesla Wannabes” bring theirs out.