AD #2569 – Easter Jeep Safari Concepts, BMW Faces Big Fine, Fiat Pools Fleet with Tesla to Meet EU CO2 Targets

April 8th, 2019 at 11:47am

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Listen to “AD #2569 – Easter Jeep Safari Concepts, BMW Faces Big Fine, Fiat Pools Fleet with Tesla to Meet EU CO2 Targets” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 6:46

0:07 BMW Faces Big Fine
0:52 Fiat Pools Fleet with Tesla to Meet EU CO2 Targets
1:38 Weekend Race Results
2:16 Mystery Vehicle Revealed
2:50 Ford’s Future Looks Bright…At Least In U.S.
3:39 Student Essay Challenge
4:33 Easter Jeep Safari Concepts

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51 Comments to “AD #2569 – Easter Jeep Safari Concepts, BMW Faces Big Fine, Fiat Pools Fleet with Tesla to Meet EU CO2 Targets”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    It’s not Fiat that can’t hit its targets, most Fiats are small cheap econoboxes, it is the CA part of FCA that needs help, with all the Jeeps, Rams and other guzzlers.

  2. Barry T Says:

    What is the product mix of Jeep, Rams and “other guzzlers” in the EU? My impression is that they mostly sell their econoboxes there, but maybe I’m wrong. I wonder if the added profit margin value of the trucks and SUVs easily would pay for the penalties?

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    #1 Does Fiat sell that many Jeep and Rams in EU?

  4. Larry D. Says:

    2 Jeeps are quite popular there, and much more expensive than here. A first cousin who recently retired as an architect working for a Bank, who used to have a very good pension before the econ crisis there, $6,000 a month (when today young Univ graduates make $600, and half of them are unemployed) unwisely bought a small Jeep Cherokee (not even the Grand Cherokee) a few years ago, for 40,000 Euros ($50,000), and after a year her pension was cut by more than 50%, the license fees for the 3.7 lt was way over $1,000 a year, gas is always expensive, so she tried to sell it, somebody offered her… $4k, for a very low-mile, low-age Jeep, so she instead parked it on the curb and surrendered the license plates to the DMV there.

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    I believe Ford is doing the right things by making sure all the SUVs get a fresh design while the iron is hot in that segment, Just not sure if it will be enough. They have doubled down on eco-boost powertrains and still have pretty conservative designs. As for Lincoln they just seem to be loaded out Fords.

  6. Jim Haines Says:

    Kurt Busch Ganassi racing Chevy Camaro

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    #4 Great story, but I failed to see the point or how it related to anything in todays show.

  8. Larry D. Says:

    Just got my Ward’s email for today, which includes a link to this show. Autoline today thankfully had no news from 0.5% market share Geely-VOlvo, but they managed to get an item in the Ward’s summary, one about how nice their paint shop is, easy on energy and emissions (allegedly).

    In other Ward’s news, Citroen is “gearing up to enter the India market”. And good luck with that.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    Didn’t you see the “2″ in the very beginning of my Response to post no 2 by Barry???

  10. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Sean, Ford Anglia: I’ve always pronounced it ang-glee-ah. Correct me if I’m wrong.

    I don’t ‘get’ buying credits; it still nets the same amount of pollution. It’s almost like, and this is just a hypothetical: 50 grams of mercury in a solution in one flask, 50 grams of cadmium in a solution in another flask, and the maximum allowable for disposal is 25 gram mercury/cadmium so someone collects both, adds one to the other and dilutes both solution to 25 gram/per volume. Then throws it out (disposes); which equals the same amount of polluted effluent. (doesn’t make sense to me)

  11. Barry T Says:

    9 – I was looking for stats, not a personal observation. Your answer in #4 didn’t answer my question.

  12. Larry D. Says:

    11 You’re hard to please. I did answer your Q, don’t make me cut and paste it:

    “2 Jeeps are quite popular there, and much more expensive than here.”

    This is NOT a “personal observation”, it is fact based, auto sales stats.

    In any case, I will be glad to refund your $, but you can’t refund my TIME, which is irreplacable and therefore far more valuable than $.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    10 Credits make 100% sense, it is Economics pure and simple, those who pollute have to PAY and those who are good citizens and have Zero pollution (instead of the max allowed 130) should be allowed to sell their good credit to those who need it. 100% makes sense.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    10 PS I agree there was something funny about how Sean said “Anglia” I heard “Angelia” or sth.

  15. Buzzerd Says:

    It’s always seemed to me that manufacturers are missing the boat a little in regards to trucks and recreational equipment. I would think most people who own a motorcycle/dirtbike, snow machine, quad… also own a truck. They should have a stronger presence around the different racing programs and or magazines and videos.

  16. XA351GT Says:

    I’m with you Chuck, This carbon credits is BS you either make the number or you don’t If you don’t pay the fines and get busy. Tesla probably makes more money selling it’s CC than it does selling it’s cars. Take away those and they probably fold up like a cheap tent.

  17. Larry D. Says:

    16 Sorry, you are 100% wrong. Carbon credits are NOT “BS” at all, but your Econs background seems very limited. Ever heard of “External” costs vs “Internal” costs? Pollution, air or noise, highway damage by 18 wheelsrs (1 of them does as much as 9,600 cars) etc are all examples of external costs.

  18. Buzzerd Says:

    Carbon credits is a way to still have a free market but if you don’t follow the standards then you are punished and the person following the rules can be rewarded. People often like to talk about government waste blah blah, well this is a way to get them out of the equation.

  19. Larry D. Says:

    16 PS there is NOTHING wrong EVEN if your assertion were true, which it sure is NOT, that Tesla allegedly makes more money from selling the carbon credits than it made in 2018 from selling 399,000 cars, which is laughable. I will not waste any more time with econ illiteracy here, if you want to believe that the earth is flat and the moon is made of blue cheese, guys, be my guests.

  20. Lambo2015 Says:

    10 I agree that the buying and selling of credits doesn’t push each manufacturer to meet the standards when they can just buy credits. So its basically becomes a national standard. So if the limits is 130 per manufacturer and there are 10. Then the national limit is 1300 but does that change as new manufacturers join? If google and amazon start producing cars do they get an additional 130 (whatever units they use) Does the national limit then change to 1560 or does everyone else now have to meet 108? Just sad that a manufacturer could produce the very best truck and unless they have something to sell with it that helps meet the standard they need to make crap that no one wants, they likely lose money on and that just increases the cost of their truck that people do want. So these credits cost everyone money whether its paying for a car that is sold at a loss or having to buy credits from another manufacturer.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2, 3, etc. Jeep sold ~165K units in Europe in 2018.

  22. Barry T Says:

    4 Larry D. You’re pretty funny. I still don’t know the answer to my question (that was not directed to you, BTW) on the product mix (by model, otherwise worthless) or the margins thereof… even after being “educated” by you. And then you’re snarky about the value of YOUR time LOL. So I’m still curious about the background facts to the FCA credits story.

  23. Lambo2015 Says:

    #21 Yea but Fiat sells 700k cars in EU so whats the car/truck ratio they have to sell and still be able to meet the standard? I’m sure that’s dependant on the fuel economy of the cars and trucks they sell but I’m guessing that ratio keep increasing in favor of the cars.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I couldn’t find any sales figures for Ram in Europe, but I’m sure the numbers are very low for Ram pickups. Both Promaster vans are sold in Europe, but as Fiat Ducato and Fiat Doblo.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 Most Jeep products get really bad mpg, compared to most cars sold in Europe. I’d think Mercedes would have trouble, though, since they sell a product mix including a lot of larger cars, and some gas hog SUVs, like the G-wagon, and to a lesser extent, the GLE shipped over from SC. They sell quite a few A- and B-Class hatches, etc., which would help.

  26. XA351GT Says:

    Mr Tesla I will stand by may comment that selling those credits does little to help the environment. If the standard is 500 units of whatever and company A produces 0 and company B produces 1000 and buys the 500 credits from A we still have the exact same amount of pollution. All this is a money making venture, that is the only “green ” here. The whole idea of a standard is to make people meet it not cheat it.

  27. Lambo2015 Says:

    26 In addition to it being a cash cow for EV manufacturers it seems to overlap emission requirements. Just another regulation that is good in theory but ends up costing the consumer more money in the end.

  28. Lambo2015 Says:

    Kit on a side note per comments you’ve made before. While gas prices are basically low the Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine passed a 10.5 cents per gallon gas tax increase and 19 cents a gallon increase on diesel. For a total 38.5 cents a gallon on gas and 47 cents a gallon on diesel. This should generate 865 Million per year.. Hopefully it all actually makes it to road repair and Maint.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    A year or two ago, Indiana raised the fuel tax 10 cents/gallon. I’m pretty sure the increase was the same for gas and diesel.

  30. Al Molinski Says:

    Who really pays a fine of a big company? The company just increases the prices of its product to recover the money so the consumer really pays. Want to really regulate a company – put a CEO in jail – that will keep them honest!

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30 The fines would give customers more incentive to buy from a company that doesn’t break the law as much.

  32. Drew Says:

    @30 – If you recall your micro economics class, a business optimized profits when margin revenues equal marginal costs. A tariff or fee or emissions penalty raises the marginal cost curve. As it is a matter of simple calculus, the new intersection of the marginal cost and margin revenue curves will result in no more than 50% of the few being passed to the consumer… even if the manufacturer is a monopoly.

  33. Larry D. Says:

    30 You got it. A Publicly traded corporation is NOT some “rich guy” you can tax to death, because its stock is owned by widows and orphans and every Joe Sixpack’s 401k.

    the corporate tax is the most futile, STUPID idea ever proposed. WHo pays that tax? The CEO who makes $20 mill a year? THe fart VPs who make $2 mill a year? Fat Chance! I will tell you who pays it, the small shareholders, the consumers who will pay a higher price for the product, AND the workers who will get laid off or a smaller raise!

  34. Larry D. Says:

    33 I meant the Fat VPs, not the Fart VPs, but either way.

  35. Larry D. Says:

    28 It is right to be concerned that the gas ‘tax’ revenue will be wasted and not spent on any decent pothole repairs. MI must have the worst roads of all 50 states, and for 40 years now, they keep ‘fixing’ them and next year they are full of potholes again. You don’t see this in the egg-smooth autobahns in Germany, where gas is $7, BUT they get their $s w=orth.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    Gas prices in the US were Always DIRT CHEAP, compared to anything you may care to compare them with, whether it is

    Gas prices in Europe and other oil-importing states, where they are from $7 to even $ 10 a gallon, in nations where the Per capita income is far LESS than the US one,

    Or even if you compare them to anything else you buy in the US. Like a STUPID Starbucks coffee, $4???? Really? I buy a 30 oz can of Maxwell House making 240 cups for $4!

  37. Larry D. Says:

    27 wrong. It is the right thing to do. If your dog poops on the public street, you SHOULD pick it up and throw it in the wastebasket, if you live in a Civilized society. You have similarly NO Right to pollute and noise pollute my air, when a BEV does neither! There should be a reward for that, or a penalty for your pollution!

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 Coffee must be cheaper in MI than in FL or IN, where 30 oz. of Maxwell House costs almost twice as much. As far as Starbucks, I like the taste better, but not that much better.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Also, I guess Starbucks is cheaper in FL than in MI. A 20 oz. regular or dark roast coffee is $2.45 at a store near me.

  40. Larry D. Says:

    38 39 NO, it is not, it just pays to be a smart shopper and wait to get the biggest discount. I DID pay $3.99 for my 30 oz MH can recently at Kroger’s, which is a nation-wide chain.

    Anything is much more expensive than gas, your still ridiculous $2.45 coffee, how much is this per GALLON? $20?

  41. Larry D. Says:

    And I could go on and on. Restaurants, all kinds, esp at dinner, plus they have no obligation to tell you what is in the food they charge an arm and a leg for. Even disgusting fast food joints serving a quintuple bypass (or a cheeseburger in popular parlance) are far more expensive than food you buy and cook, food you know exactly what it contains, and which is 10 times healthier.

    Cereals is another example. 99 of 100 types are just TERRIBLE for you, full of sugar and salt, AND way overpriced. After lots of research, I found at the ALDI chain wheat squares, 18 oz, no salt, no sugar, for only $1.39 a box. I bought a 2 year supply in case these clowns raise the prices to $2 again.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    41 CR does a good job of uncovering those disgusting foods and their contents, but they still legitimize items that are just awful by even considering them.

    How can our health care system survive when people can eat crap with impunity, smoke, drink etc, and then ask us tro pay million $ hospital bills? this is not sustainable. Especially with criminal hospitals charging… $20k for a 10 min cataract operation ($10k per eye)!!!

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    40 Kroger’s is nationwide, sort of. They started in Cincinnati, and had stores in my home town it Indiana in the ’50s, but their nearest store to me in Florida is 50 miles away. As far as “basic” coffee, like Maxwell House, $7,00 for 30 oz is about as cheap as it gets where I am now. As with other things, I guess being in a touristy area keeps prices higher. Yeah, $2.45 for a 20 oz Starbucks coffee is a really bad deal, even if it tastes good.

    41 Aldi is huge in Germany, where they started, but is kind of a small operator in the U.S. I go there sometimes when up north, where there is a store nearby. They even take credit cards now, but didn’t until very recently.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    43 Due to competition from other chain stores like Aldi, Meijer, etc, Kroger has some of the best prices. It also has $6.99 REGULAR price for the MH Coffee, BUT if you have a Kroger card it’s $5.99 all the time, and if you buy when they have a promotion, which they have at least once a year, it is $2 less, so $3.99! Usually I paid $4.99, at most $5.99. My kitchen is full of unused coffee cans, my bath full of Irish Spring soaps and shampoos that CR recommended and which I also find dirt-cheap. I also get fuel at the Kroger pumps at $0.55 a gallon less, due to a card discount and $0.10 for every 100 points, where you can get 200 points free a month just by filling a short survey on the web every week.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    41 Aldi has the best prices for produce. Every Saturday I visit from 1 to 5 different stores, each has an advantage in something. In Europe, there is LIDL, another German chain I use when I am in the summer home, unbeatable prices, but lots of unhealthy packaged foods full of salt and sugars. Good produce and fruit, local ones, at best prices. It is a 15-30 min scenic drive on country roads and hills, each way, I do it once a week or two weeks. Buy most of my stuff there rather than the much pricier local market.

  46. Bob Aubertin Says:

    Additional info: Ford of England built the vehicles in the late ’30s thru early ’50s.The Thames panel truck(which you showed a picture of)The Anglia car and the Prefect. Many of these cars were a favorite with drag racers in the Gas classes. Some are still being drag raced today in Nostalgia drag racing.

  47. Larry D. Says:

    43, 44, unbelievably, they have this $3.99 MH 30.6 OZ can promotion again starting tomorrow! If I did not already have a dozen cans, I’d go buy the maximum 5 they allow at that price.

  48. Lambo2015 Says:

    37 You have similarly NO Right to pollute and noise pollute my air, when a BEV does neither!

    So I guess all the BEVs are running on wind or solar electric..(NOT) So they do pollute from a factory that’s producing their electric and yes it may to a lesser amount.
    Under your thinking then when the cost per KW of electric goes up with the demand because of all these new EVs. Then those with ICEs shouldn’t have to pay the higher rate. They will already be paying a premium for owning a ICE. So your for everyone paying their fair share depending on the choices they make on what vehicle they drive or for the socialistic approach of everyone supporting the change to EVs for the greater good of society?

  49. Larry D. Says:

    48 fairy tales oft re4peated. LUDICROUS. Right, the earth is flat, and your RAM pollutes just as much as The Tesla S. Laughable.

  50. Larry D. Says:

    48 if you have one useful ounce of brains, go educate yourself what EXTERNAL costs are. They are not a tax. They are the rightful additional costs polluters like you AND me (with my 2 Diesels) +SHOULD pay. I know there is no point having any discussion with you and I have often suggested that you do not bother reading anything I post, since there is NO chance you will understand the least bit of it.

  51. Lambo2015 Says:

    49&50 Thanks again for your personal attacks which again show everyone the “once of brains” you have when it comes to social skills. My comment was not to argue or be offensive but further debate your post that incorrectly informs people, leading them to think (if they believe you) that EVs are zero emission.

    Considering I only drive my Ram about 7k miles a year. If a Tesla model S is being driven 15k miles a year and being recharged by a coal burning power plant I very well may pollute less. Yeah I know that’s not a apples to apples comparison but I also can tow a 9500lb boat or a model S on a trailer that the Model S cant do.

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