AD 2629 – Tesla to Pump Up the Volume, Passenger Car Sales Continue to Tumble, Wall Street Bullish on Electra Meccanica

July 10th, 2019 at 11:45am

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Listen to “AD 2629 – Tesla to Pump Up the Volume, Passenger Car Sales Continue to Tumble, Wall Street Bullish on Electra Meccanica” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 6:04

0:07 Tesla to Pump Up the Volume
0:47 Passenger Car Sales Continue to Tumble
1:28 Detroit OEMs Want More Temporary Workers
2:29 Panasonic Connecter Eliminates Need for Wire Harnesses
3:06 Test Your Automotive Knowledge
3:32 Historic Runs at Goodwood Festival of Speed
4:36 Wall Street Bullish on Electra Meccanica

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66 Comments to “AD 2629 – Tesla to Pump Up the Volume, Passenger Car Sales Continue to Tumble, Wall Street Bullish on Electra Meccanica”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Isn’t the car a late ’30s Buick?

  2. Larry D. Says:

    If China production reaches full volume for all of 2020, expect total World Production to exceed 1,000,000 units. That’s really the BIG League for Visionary and Pathbreaker Elon Musk.

    On the exact opposite corner sits pitiful ELIO, the BIGGEST Loser. It is NOT “making” anything, Sean, if I may correct your “journalistic license”. It has been saying it wants to make their unsafe 3 wheeler for a decade, and it does not look it will ever make it. MAny fools have lost their venture capital with Elio. Hopefully Elio disregards his huge Ego and DROPS the STUPID tricycle.

  3. Larry D. Says:

    Really? LOL. I guess BMW expects Euro Governments to buy its pitiful 114 mile range MINI and distribute it to the needy who don’t want it, like the proverbial “Government CHeese”.


    1) Look up the 1940 Buick Special. Sure looks like that is it

  5. Larry D. Says:

    3 from the link

    “The car will have a range of 200 km (124 miles) to 232 km (140 miles) under Europe’s WLTP test regime. It uses a 32.6 kilowatt-hour battery pack.

    Mini said performance has been prioritized over range

    …In Germany, the Mini Electric will start at 32,000 euros.”

    REAL range is TRULY Pitiful, as the Euro range is 50% higher than the REAL EPA range. even less in the winter.

    AND just in case you did not know, 32,000 Euros in its home market Germany is over $40,000 for this tiny pos with an even tinier range and a goofy grille.

    ARE YOU KIDDING BMW>?>>> WHOM are you kidding? Only Yourselves.

    Strike Out. This dog will not hunt.

    imagine paying $40,000 for this worthless POS when you can buy a FAR superior, I repeat FAR superior, Tesla 3 for $35-37k!!!!!


    Elio should switch to an electric drivetrain instead of trying to get the 3 cylinder to work. Their car is actually useable with room for 2 people and some groceries. The negative to Elio is the need for a motorcycle license which is great for getting around regulations, but cuts out a significant portion of the market.

  7. Larry D. Says:

    6 Why would anybody buy this deathtrap? Are you aware it does not need to meet any car safety rules, as a tricycle?

  8. Lambo2015 Says:

    One thing you left out Sean. The ELECTRA MECCANICA SOLO is priced at $16,250 which seems reasonable but is about twice what Elio was saying their three wheeled car would cost. Elio also had room for a passenger. They both look very similar in design.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    If European sales pick up, Musk should consider building a factory in the EU, because the only way this MINI loser can sell any units is if Europe, like it always has done for decades, imposes barriers to trade for Teslas imported from the US. I am sure they will find a good excuse for it too.

  10. Larry D. Says:

    8 this is absolutely ludicrous, what medicinal weed are those Wall Street Crooks and/or Fools on>???


    7) I am aware and thusly the requirement for the motorcycle license. It is as safe as a motorcycle will ever be. Probably even more safe then a motorcycle.

  12. Lambo2015 Says:

    7 I would buy one. I understand it doesn’t meet passenger car crash regulations. Neither does the Polaris Slingshot, Can Am spider or any other motorcycle. A three wheeled vehicle would be great for commuting to work all year around.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    Sean, whose “strategist” is the guest on AAH on Electrification? Is he the EV strategist of some major automaker or some freelance consultant?

    PS Do you know what a consultant does? You hire him, you ask him to tell you the time, he borrows your watch and tells you (then he charges you an arm and a leg)

  14. Larry D. Says:

    12 “Would” does no count. Actually buying it does. I bet $1,000 the thing dies real soon, IF it ever reaches production.

  15. NormT Says:

    Honda Accord, redesigned in 2018, is down 14.4% t gb is year so far

  16. Larry D. Says:

    And this particular tricycle in black, as seen in the video from above, looks exactly like a coffin.

    Quite ironic, because the occupants will soon need one, if they drive this thing in the middle of 5,000 and 6,000 lb pickups and SUVs in the US.

  17. Larry D. Says:

    15 It’s still a great car and far more fun to drive than that reliable Buick, the Camry. I owned an Accord coupe 5 sp in the past, but I am not in this segment any more. If I were, I would sure choose it again.


    16) The same can be said about any motorcycle too. And yet strangely enough people still buy them in droves year after year. That is all this electrameccanica and elio are. Motorcycles you can drive year round. The Elio for around $8000 and the electrameccanica for around $16000. There is a market there. Maybe not a large market. But there is a market there.

    And FYI, you can die in a mercedes S-class if you are struck by any of the thousands of 80-120,000 pound trucks that roll in your area of Michigan. Compared to those vehicles, everything is a coffin.

  19. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Sean, with your background in automotive repair, do you think the new Panasonic connectors will be a welcome addition to repair technicians; as some of the older ones (connectors) have been problematic when old and crusty.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6 et. al. Speaking of 3 wheelers, last week, I took a two day class for Can Am Spyder/Ryker machines. As most of you know, they are, basically, 3 wheeled motorcycles, with either no weather protection, or touring motorcycle-like weather protection, depending on the model. The machines have ABS, traction control, and stability control, and Can Am claims that you can’t tip them with corning forces on regular pavement. We pretty much confirmed that, with a “swerve” exercise we did in the class.

    I took the class just for fun, and because a friend was an instructor, but completing the class gets you a 3 wheel endorsement in Indiana. I already have a motorcycle endorse, which also is good for 3 wheelers in both FL and IN, but it varies by state.

  21. Lambo2015 Says:

    14 Its only a “would buy” because Elio doesn’t look like they will ever get off the ground and I wasn’t about to put cash down on a maybe will be produced. Same with this solo. I would very likely buy one when they are actually producing them and they are available here in the US. I don’t need to be the first one to own one so no need to place a deposit. I think Elio missed their opportunity and should probably scrap the whole ICE at this point, like stated by Merkur driver. Elio and Solo should merge and then they could offer an EV with 1 or 2 seating options.

    Maybe its crazy but I’ve never bought a vehicle based on its safety ratings good or bad. Its like insurance, great to have when you need it but a lot of expense if you never do. I figure if I’m willing to ride my motorcycle which only comes in contact with the road in two spots and has no airbags, ABS, crumple zones or any protection for that matter. Then why would I be afraid to drive a vehicle that has three points of contact a lot less likely to be dropped (tipped over) as a motorcycle and does provide some protection. I like the minimalistic concept behind the Solo while still providing the things I would want in a commuter. Heated seats, A/C, power windows and a radio with USB capability. I don’t need anything else.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17 Have you driven a current Camry, 2018 or 2019? As far as handling, the new Camry pretty much matches the Accord, and with the hybrid versions I checked out, and bought, the Camry powertrain is more seamless. Also, I like it better because of the mechanical simplicity. Also, the controls of the Camry are more user friendly.

    No, I’m not knocking the Accord. I like the looks better than the Camry, and might have bought the Accord, had the powertrains been equal.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The quoted price of $16,250 for the Electra Meccanica trike does not seem at all realistic, when the Spyder I drove last week was over $25K with no doors, no A/C, no heater, and no expensive battery, just a regular lead acid 12 volt battery.

  24. Albemarle Says:

    I think the Solo is a great idea; a single seater for commuters. I expect these will be used inside cities. Whether it launches or becomes financially successful is another question.

    I believe they are planning on being made at a factory in China so Trump may keep them out of the U.S..
    Solo will have to settle for the rest of the world to sell to.

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sean to answer your question why Elio has not been able to get things going is they postponed the launch too many times and fell into the quicksand effect. You can make a mistake and recover but when you flail around for too long you sink. Investors and people that put deposits down start getting scared, pulling out requesting their deposit back and even suing. When you move your production date out 4 and 5 times and I think they are now something like 4 years behind their original launch date. Plus its taken so long that everything is going electric and they are still messing with a 3 cylinder gas engine. Solo has a much better chance with a low price EV. $16,250 its a bargain when you consider the Harley Livewire EV motorcycle has an MSRP of $29,800. Can almost buy 2 Solos for that and drive it all year. The Harley is quicker but about the same range, (88/140)

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 Yeah, Elio has been around for 10 years, and has produced nothing. That’s long past the time words like “vaporware” start being used as a description. From the beginning, Elio were talking about making their own 3 cylinder engine. Why? There are a bunch of them out there, used in small cars, motorcycles, tractors, etc., which would work. Surely someone would sell engines to Elio, at a modest profit. At this stage, though, they would probably not offer credit.

    The Zero motorcycle I test rode yesterday had an MSRP of about $14K, with 14.4 kWh battery giving a “combined” range of 120 miles. This was a very basic “naked” motorcycle. I don’t know the actual numbers, but it felt very quick, especially at lower speed, compared to my 600cc SilverWing scooter.

  27. Sean McElroy Says:

    @chuck – If it’s easy to pull apart, no problem. But some connectors are a downright pain in the butt and can become brittle when exposed to high temperatures often. It seems as though these Panasonic connectors will not be located in hot places. And it looks like there’s just one tab to push to unlock it. It hard to tell from the pictures how big the connector is, but my past experience with circuit board connectors is that they can be quite delicate.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    18 No. Motorcycles are cool. They are Beautiful. When you ride one, you do NOT have a false sense of security you have inside a covered TRIKE. Nobody will buy this ugly POS, and in addition, it will never make it to production anyway.

  29. Larry D. Says:

    22 no, but I never read any review that claims that any Toyota or Lexus sedan ever managed to be fun to drive, and that includes even the so-called “sports” version of the LS, which is the only Toyota I would consider buying (at a huge discount, most likely a 7 yr old LS600h)

  30. Larry D. Says:

    18 dream on. But since you mention the S class (which I have never owned yet but is in my short list), I remember the local news here in Michigan in the 80s that had an accident right on the segment on the parkway I drive daily to work back and forth, and it involved an S class and a much smaller GM vehicle (I think it was a Chevette), whose driver (no surprise) died in the crash, but nobody in the S class (the very vehicle where many of todays safety features present in all kinfs of cars were first invented and tried).

    As for the 18 wheelers, they are driven by experienced professionals that do not go around hitting cars, like the distracted teen or older drivers of any stupid crossover or SUV.

  31. Larry D. Says:

    18 right, everybody thinks there is a market there. That’s why they brought back FIAT in the US. WHat a market, last month the mass maker cheap unreliable cars sold less than 1,000, when BMW, Mercedes and Tesla sold 35,000, 30,000 and 25,000 each respectively. AND there was a market for Alfa Romeo? Don’t see it either.

    And note these are real cars that are 1000 times better than that tiny black coffin.

  32. Steve W Says:

    It looks like a 1940 Buick to me.

  33. Tom Rae Says:

    The car looks like a 1940 Buick Eight or Super Eight.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 Neither a Camry or Accord could be desceibed as “fun to drive,” except maybe a manual transmission Accord or, because of its quickness, a V6 Camry. Both have competent handling, though, but not “sporty” handling.

  35. Carl Says:

    Two days ago you post a story “Car sales are up’, and now you say car sales are down. This page flip-flops more than a politician.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 By “passenger cars” in today’s show, he meant sedans, coupes, sports cars, convertibles, sedan-height hatchbacks, etc., as opposed to passenger trucks like SUVs, CUVs, and pickup trucks which now dominate the US market.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    33 Don’t take my word for it, take Car and Driver’s top ten lists. The Accord has been there amazing number of times, maybe 30 in the last 36 years. The Camry never made it. They are not even close in the ‘fun to drive’ category. The Golf-Passat used to be more fun to drive than even the Accord, but had much lower reliability and I’d not buy them. Over here in the old country the Golf is considered a premium car and a very reliable one. Not surprising, given that the alternatives are Opels, Fords, Renaults, and Fiats (and lots of Hyundais and Nissans too) and very few Hondas.

    I did drive a 2003 Almost New Camry rental in Denver and although it was far superior to the god_awful Focus I drove the previous day, both very close in price, 77 vs 71 $ you felt nothing when you drove the Camry, very smooth, was doing 100 before you noticed it, but it was a thoroughly joyless ride.

    PS My Accord was a 5 sp manual, as was the Civic.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 Yes, C and D continues to love the Accord, partly because it still offers manual transmissions, partly because they like the turbo 4′s lighter weight than the competing “performance” Camry’s V6, helping the Accord so equipped drive better than the Camry.

    I did not shop those versions. I shopped the hybrids, and the powertrain of the Camry worked better. If I’d been shopping other versions, I may well have bought an Accord, or even a Malibu which looks good, and drives decently with the standard 1.5 turbo.

    Maybe you missed it in my earlier post, but I said the current Camry, new for 2018 model year is roughly comparable to an Accord in handling. The 2003 you rented was not comparable in handling to a 2003 Accord.

  39. ChuckGrenci Says:

    27, Sean, thanks, I wasn’t sure where these connectors were going to be used. I thought maybe under the hood but I guess not; that makes the most sense.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38 My limited experience with connectors in cars, is that they are designed to make it not obvious where to squeeze to release them.

  41. FSTFWRD Says:

    Mister Larry D; I believe many on this site will agree with most of what you say, but you need to find a better way of expressing your self. I believe you need to be not so negative all the time, and stop the name calling. You remind me of our President. My two cents, FWIW.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    40 Show me where I called anybody here any names. the opposite sometimes happens, hit and run posts calling me names. I only criticize product, and those responsible for it, CEOs and the like, not the people here.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    37 handling is one thing but very light steering, like in Buicks, Toyotas etc also contributes to the bad driving experience, it seems the car wallows all over the road if it takes so little effort to steer it.

    I recommend Corollas and other Toyotas to my friends here and overseas who are not ‘car persons’ and just want a dependable car-appliance. Back in the 90s Toyotas had much smaller costs of some standard maintenance items such as timing belt, Honda wanted $500 for a belt and a pump at 90k miles, Toyota half that cost. I ignored mine until I had 115k miles and was in CA where I found a place which changed it for $250.

    But I kept reading even recently that Lexus kept offering “sports’ versions of the LS and they still were not sporty or satisfying to drive. I wonder why it was so difficult to achieve that.

    C&D has changed many editors over the years, I am a big fan of Czaba Czere who also lives in the area and have met him, back then told me he owned a 1997-2003 model 5 Series. BMWs were also regulars at the top 10, but no BMW model was there as much as the Accord.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42 Many, or most of the Honda engines with timing belts have been “valve crashers,” so you didn’t want the timing belt to break. Honda has used belts longer than most car companies, and the last I knew, the V6s in Pilot, Odyssey, etc. still had belts. Honda 4s in Civic, and most others have used chains since the mid-2000s. Toyota used belts in V6 and V8 engines into the 2000s, but the 4s have had chains since the late ’90s or very early 2000s.

    This year’s C and D 10 best includes the current version of the car(s) you own, and one car you seem to hate (Genesis G70). There are two Hondas, Accord and Civic, and one BMW.

  45. Lambo2015 Says:

    43 For the life of me I could not understand why any manufacturers would use belts on an interference engine (where valves overlap the piston stroke area). I worked in the engine group for one manufacturer and they insisted on using a belt for noise reduction knowing they don’t last as long and if not serviced will likely destroy the valvetrain when they fail. At least when a chain gets sloppy you have some warning prior to failure.

  46. Larry D. Says:

    43 I have not test driven many of the cars we see in the news, and I have no hatred of any inanimate objects like the 20th “3 series rival” that has utterly failed in sales, the G 70, despite getting two dozen “employee of the month’ awards from the auto press who gets wined and dined by Hyundai to test its products, and stays in 6 star hotels also paid by Hyundai (anybody sees an obvious conflict of interest here? Maybe this will also explain that whenever an auto jounrnalist interviews a failed auto CEO or VP, they NEVER ask any challenging question about their failures?

    Buyers should beware that the Genesis is the 12th attempt of Hyundai and Kia to sell a luxury car int he US market, and all previous 11 attempts have failed, miserably. There is no doubt about this, both in terms of the model refinement and overall performance, and their dismal sales.

    C&D has a much less auto literate and engineering-literate editor after Czaba Czere. I still like the summary of their stats and test drive results for various vehicles, not so much their top 10 any more.

    I am not in the market for any 3 series or any of its failed rivals, not even for a Model 3 which is the first true 3 Series Killer.

    I am more interested in the top of the range model of every maker. The G 90 is touted as a “value” proposition, which is just LAUGHABLE, because it costs $75k and for one FIFTH of this I can get a Very Satisfying 2013 S class with all the trimmings. Which I most likely will get if I buy another car within the next 2 years.


  47. Larry D. Says:

    43 C & D should really underline and emphasize that every Top Ten Car, Suv etc list it ever made was nothing of the kind.

    the simple reason is, they always imoposed a rather low ceiling for the top price of all contestants. They have raised it to account for inflation, but many many vehicles still fail to qualify.

    This does not just include all exotics from ITaly and Rolls, Bentley and McLaren, but also the S class and all its rivals 7, A8, XJ, LS, and probably even the G90, of course the iconic 911, the panamera, the R8 sporst audi.

    So C& D never published a true top ten list, but an affordable top ten list. WHich I would accept, IF they included USED cars so they could compare them to the overpriced new ones.

  48. Kit Gerhart Says:

    44 I was never a fan of timing belts, even in non-intereference engines, because it is an expensive maintenance item that needs to be done about every 100K miles, or less in some cases. I have a timing belt in my 1989 Dodge Caravan, but will never replace it, unless it breaks. It is a non-interference engine, but if it were interference, I’d be nervous about the belt, being 30 years old, even though the vehicle has only 70K miles.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    45 It seems that Genesis is trying to emulate Lexus’s beginnings, by starting with sedans, including one model, ostensibly, to compete with S-Class, LS, et. al. They seem not to have noticed that the market has changed completely over the last 20 years, and Americans now buy mostly trucks.

    46 The price limit for C & D’s 2019 “10 best cars” was $90K. In past years, I remember the “10 best” article saying that, if a company can’t make a good car for $90K, or the limit that year, they should be in a different business, or something to that effect.

    I suspect most C & D readers like it better the way it is, rather than having a list of cars that almost no one can afford.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    46 continued. Yeah, a list of “10 best used cars” under, say, $50K, would be interesting.

  51. Larry D. Says:

    48 depends when exactly they mentioned 90k. back in 82, the standard Rolls cost less than $50k.

    also, many companies make very good cars at even $30k, but then they should not call their list “top ten best cars” but “ten good cars”. Which sounds like CR recommended models.

  52. Larry D. Says:

    49 Lexus had some initial success but while they are still alive and probably still making money today, the Germans have come back and again dominate the luxury segment (I’d guess they still have 50-60% of it! (Merc, BMW, Audi and Porsche)

    The top two best sellers at Lexus, the ES and the RX, are Toyota clones. Good for making Lexus $, but not impressive from the point of excellence and uniqueness.

    Sure, after 11 tries, the Koreans finally copied Lexus and started an independent luxury division. So far, the dog is not eating the dogfood, though.

  53. Larry D. Says:

    in other news, the Dow apparently went above 27,000 for the first time. When I started working, it was around 800 and interest rates for a 4 year CD was 14% (so of course I did not invest anything until a few years later they dropped to 6% or so). So it has grown 30 + times since.

  54. Kit Gerhart Says:

    51 Any “best” list is subjective, and C&D says as much in their “10 best” article. They admit that cars making their list are ones that appeal to enthusiasts. CR recommends cars more from a “transportation appliance” standpoint, but they also appreciate performance and “fun to drive,” as you can tell be reading their articles on cars like Boxster, 911, and Corvette.

    From the wikipedia article on C&D’s 10 best cars, the price limit is set at 2.5 times the price of an average car that year.

  55. Larry D. Says:

    53 33.75 times to be exact. Which corresponds to a rate of return of 9.98% every year for 37 years. You thought it would be more?

  56. Lambo2015 Says:

    48 Yeah! They keep trying to emulate Lexus because the profit margin on the luxury cars is way better. But they should probably save the investment costs and stick to what they do best. Try as they might Genesis will be associated with Hyundai/Kia especially if sold at the same dealership.
    When you have a reputation for building cheap affordable cars even though they have made huge improvements in reliability and quality its not enough to pull luxury pricing. Its the same reason Cadillac and Lincoln are unable to garner the reputation that BMW and MB have. Part of the reason people buy a luxury brand is to let others know their social status (like it or not) and even if Cadillac built a better car than MB they would likely not be able to ask the same price. So who is going to throw down luxury car money to say I’m driving the upscale Kia?
    So even if Genesis builds a car on par with the others it will still have to be thousands cheaper than the competition to get some sales. Maybe over a few decades they can change public perception..

  57. Kit Gerhart Says:

    51 The $90K price limit for C&D’s “10 best cars” was for 2019.

    It seems that the lists that are really stupid are ones for “worst cars in history,” or similar. The highly publicized Time list includes the Model T, never mind that, in its early days, it cost less than 1/4 as much as most competition, and was more reliable than most of those much more expensive cars. There are other notably stupid choices on the list, like Aztec, which was ugly, but practical and a good value, by no means one of the “50 worst cars of all time.”

  58. Larry D. Says:

    56 the pity w Caddy and Lincoln is that they used to dominate the luxury industry at a time when Mercedes was their only serious rival (the 7 series only started in 1977 and lexus in 89), but they squandered their good name.

    Lexus also screwed up its latest LS model. The 400, 430, 460 (even with the spindle grille) were far better than the misnumbered LS500 of today.

  59. Lambo2015 Says:

    58 That’s why I wish caddy would avoid sharing components across the other GM brands. They could share suspension and powertrains but when it comes to body design and interior components they need to be exclusive to Cadillac.
    The 80s Cadillac Cimarron was probably the pinnacle of this fiasco. Taking a Chevy Cavalier (which was a mediocre car to begin with) throw leather seats in it and a Cadillac emblem and that car damaged Cadillac more than 2008 did.

  60. Larry D. Says:

    57 ludicrous to list the model T as one of the worst. Obviously the list was not compiled or approved by anybody who is auto literate. The Aztec was god-awful and belongs there. The EDSEL (was it on the list too? I never heard of it, but then i don’t read TIME) actually was far better looking than the Aztec.

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    59 The Cadillac cars don’t share much, other than engines, with other GM brands, but the CUVs and SUVs do.

  62. Kit Gerhart Says:

    60 The main thing wrong with the Aztec was the way it looked. That doesn’t even close to make it one of the “worst cars of all time.”

    I don’t read Time either, but have run across links to their list over the years. Yes, Edsel is on it, and some other cars that were unattractive to a lot of people, but were not particularly “bad,” as far as providing transportation.,29569,1658545,00.html

  63. Kit Gerhart Says:

    62 It looks like this list was from about 2004.

  64. Lambo2015 Says:

    61 They don’t share much now as I think they learned their lesson but time always seems to render some amnesia with GM. The penny counters get involved and soon they are back to sharing more and more. To your point yes the Escalade is not much different than a loaded Yukon Denali.
    As for the Aztec I had a friend that actually bought one and although on looks alone I would add it to the worse cars it was very versatile. They offered a lot of features and cool things that had it had a even slightly better design would have done pretty well.

  65. marshy Says:

    Is that a Peugeot steering wheel in that 3 wheel car?

  66. FSTFWRD Says:

    #42 Larry D; I never said you call people on this forum names. Just the name calling bothers me, yes, many CEO’s have proven to be perform very poorly, but I see no need to constantly call them names.