AD #2656 – Official C8 Corvette Pricing, Feds Nail More UAW Officials, Tesla Hits Quality Problems in Europe

August 16th, 2019 at 11:38am

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Runtime: 7:09

0:07 Tesla Hits Quality Problems in Europe
1:16 Rich Norwegians Buying EVs
1:41 EV Battery Swapping in India
2:55 Feds Nail More UAW Officials
4:12 Official C8 Corvette Pricing
5:13 Flying Cars for You and Me

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61 Comments to “AD #2656 – Official C8 Corvette Pricing, Feds Nail More UAW Officials, Tesla Hits Quality Problems in Europe”

  1. George Ricci Says:

    At this time the whole battery swapping idea is a waste of time. As John pointed out you need everyone to agree on “common design for battery packs with common connectors”. But there is more to it than that. You have different battery technologies like nickel–metal hydride, lithium-ion, Li-ion polymer and in a few years there will be sold state lithium-ion batteries. You have to design the power electronics that interface with the batteries for the battery type you are using. You just can’t just switch battery technology without changing the power electronics.

    Also, battery chemistry for a particular battery technology varies from manufacturer to manufacturer which effects battery capacity, charging rates, discharging rates, cooling/heating, monitoring, and life expectancy.

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’m surprised that the C8 price is so low, only $1005 more than a C7 1LT automatic. There are, of course, incentives on the remaining C7s, but they sold at MSRP, or more, when they were new.

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    What? You mean all those 160 IQ engineers that went to Tesla cant figure out how to keep water out of the headlights. That’s really surprising it has the highest customer complaints of all manufacturers in Norway. I guess someone’s fake speculative bashing of the old big three was a bit premature.

  4. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Battery standardization; the industry can’t even come up with a common charging connector. Without some government mandate I don’t think this will ever happen.

    I think the auto industry should sit back and watch on the VTOL transportation. I don’t feel that an early ‘in’ would ever present any favorable results. Helicopters have been in-service for years for practically the same thing VTOLs are professing and even that adoption is in a limited use.

  5. buildmore2doors Says:

    What, no plug for the Woodward Dream Cruise? For anyone interested, it is this Saturday in the northern Detroit suburbs along Woodward Avenue, enjoy.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1 I can see how there could be standardized batteries for small, low performance scooters, like they are probably talking about for India. The batteries could be rectangular prisms of a few different sizes and shapes, like the lead acid batteries in our cars. In today’s world, the scooter batteries would probably be some type of lithium chemistry, which could be standard for each battery “style.”

    As far as standardized, easily swappable 80 kWh batteries for cars, I don’t see it happening any time soon, if ever.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    1) Yeah the battery swap idea makes sense if everything was the same and maybe at some point in the future they will be. The technology is going through so many changes right now that it doesn’t make much sense. Besides I could also see it being like when you take your new shiny propane tank in and they swap it with an old repainted over the rust rough looking tank.
    You take in your EV with a new battery with all its range and get someone else’s 5 year old used battery. Just don’t see it being a viable option at this time.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The VTOL machines will be for $1000 taxi rides of two miles. That will be about it. The passengers will not be able to weigh more than 160 pounds.

  9. buildmore2doors Says:

    I’m not in the market for a C8, but I must say that when I see it in pictures I have a hard time telling that it isn’t a Ferrari, which doesn’t happen when I see a mid-engine Lamborghini, Porsche, Ford, etc. Maybe I’ll have a better time identifying it seeing it in person, but I doubt it.

  10. Lambo2015 Says:

    2 Considering the price for the performance you get, the Corvette is an amazing bargain. I don’t imagine there is anything else mid-engine that can compete on all levels without spending almost twice that amount. I would love to have one.

  11. buildmore2doors Says:

    John and Sean, are you going to be at the Dream Cruise this Saturday? If so, I would love to stop by and say hi if you are going to be at any one location for a while. Hope to see you there.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    10 The only other mid-engine car in the same price range as Corvette is Porsche Cayman and Boxster. The Porsches are great cars, but with their 4 cylinder turbo, are not in the same league as Corvette re. power/weight. You can still get a manual transmission in Cayman/Boxster, though, and they have steel/aluminum bodies, a plus to some people.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    There was another mid-engine car in the $50-60K price range, Lotus Elise, but it left the U.S. market after 2011. It was/is a small, primitive (in creature comforts) machine that not many people would want to drive every day.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    F1 news:
    I guess this was announced a few days ago, but I just saw that Gasly has been demoted by Red Bull, and will swap rides with Albon. I’m not surprised, as Gasly has far under-performed his team mate all season.

    They didn’t see fit to give Kvyat another try on the first string, at least not yet, even though he has generally outperformed Albon this year.

  15. Albemarle Says:

    I read than the U.K. has more EV chargers than gas stations now.

    Listening to Henry yesterday, I can understand his preference for the Supercharger network. There are quite a few dc fast chargers around for CCS and Chademo, but they are located in ones and twos. It doesn’t give you confidence that if you stop you can always get a fill. Tesla is smart by putting a dozen or so chargers in each location.

  16. Drew Says:

    Battery standardization. Great idea on the surface, but other products that have been using Lithium batteries for about a decade haven’t standardized across manufacturers (e.g., power hand tools, vacuums). As already noted, each manufacturer has their own systems approach to optimizing different attributes, creating a significant challenge to standardization… until the technology stabilizes.

  17. Larry D. Says:

    3 “I guess someone’s fake speculative bashing of the old big three was a bit premature.”

    Why don’t you tell us, oh worthless one, who that person is It is none other than Legendary C & D editor zCZABA CZERE, the best they ever had, and I will take his WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE over your vile and worthless false charges ANY TIME OF THE DAY.

    PS I still encourage you to get a LIFE. And By the way, you are so confused, you forgot the 160 IQ engineers Czaba actually mentioned were the ones in the GERMAN Automakers, NOT TEsla, which barely existed when he made the remarks, AND VWs DISMAL reliability is proven 1,000 times more than any fairy tales YOU spout.

    And don’t pretend surprise when a PATHBREAKING, INNOVATIVE Company who dares what dumb cowards do NOT dare, and make EVs on the backs of the billions they steal from SUV buyers, has some growing pains and utterly insignificant (Did you even understand what the problems were? UTTERLY tiny compared to the usual reliability issues of your junk ICE cars.

    Will you get a life now, waste of my time?

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 …and back when cell phones had easily replacable batteries, they were all different. Standardization of batteries for EVs? I won’t live nearly long enough to see that.

  19. Larry D. Says:

    12 how much trade in will you get for that fake Lambo of yours with the Chevy engine? From what you say, probably peanuts. Damn you shoulda gone to dental school. And there is no need even for a 3 digit IQ there!

  20. Larry D. Says:

    13 The Elise was a joke, a very uncomfortable joke in daily driving, with a tiny 1.8 Toyota, and they sold it for the same price as a 6.2 lt Mid-engine Corvette? What a bargain. Only in the UK!

  21. Larry D. Says:

    15 where did you read that? I’ll be surprised if it’s true, there are not many EVs in the UK to justify that many chargers.

    I know that CHINA has as many chargers as gas stations, though.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 The Elise was a fun track toy, but not much beyond that. With the Toyota engine,it is reliable enough to be a daily driver, but not very comfortable.

  23. Larry D. Says:

    I’ve never actually driven a mid-engine car and I am looking forward to test drive the C8, and even better drive a C7 too and compare the two.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 People don’t build kit cars to trade them in. They do them for the fun of building them, and driving them after they are done. A former co-worker friend did a Cobra kit car, which looks great, drives about like a real cobra, and goes over well at shows. That’s why people build replica kit cars.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23 Unless you push them really hard in turns, you won’t see a big difference, except where the engine noise comes from. I say that as having driven a C7 Corvette for 2 years, and recently driving a Porsche Cayman.

  26. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/sales/ram-prices-20-diesel-pickup-38585-claims-towing-crown?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190816&utm_content=article3-headline

    If I needed a pickup (which I don’t), this would be it. A very efficient Diesel, and unlike Ford and GM, they are not charging an arm and a leg for it.

  27. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Some of which I understand of Corvettes (C7) are that they have phenomenal grip but get twitchy at the limits. My C4 seemed to reinforce this trait. And while it is still too early to know how the C8 performs (handling-wise), reports from GM test drivers and reported by Tadge Juechter, ultimate grip has been increased and transitional grip at the limit has been tamed. Awesome is as awesome does; I believe the new Corvette to become if not the pinnacle, a very stellar performer in the handling department. Yeah, I’m a fan; can you tell. :)

  28. joe Says:

    Quality problems with Tesla’s is nothing new. They’ve had problems like forever. The fan boys try to hide that fact.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 My C7 has grip far beyond any other car I’ve had, but I have never experienced at the limit. I’m sure it would scare if I did, on public roads.

    Yeah, the C8 should be a bargain for its performance, even more than previous Corvettes.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 It looks like these are 4 door only, with no longer than a 6’4″ box. If you want a real pickup with an 8 foot box, for actual work, you need to get the old, Ram “Classic,” which is not available with the diesel.

  31. ChuckGrenci Says:

    28, Joe
    Agree for the most part. While Tesla on a whole is pretty outstanding, they do seem to be given a free ride on certain items that other manufacturers would be hauled off to the woofshed for and fansboy quickly dismiss as negligible (which some are certainly not).

  32. ChuckGrenci Says:

    @31
    Darn it: wood shed, not woofshed.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Is the woofshed where you keep the dogs? :-)

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28,31 The thing I keep seeing repeatedly, is paint/body damage, probably mostly done during shipping of the cars.

  35. Larry D. Says:

    31 Joe is a unrepentant Tesla hater, for whatever reason.

    Of course there are quality problems with Teslas, as the ones mentioned on this show,

    “problems like scratched bumpers and moisture trapped in the headlamps”

    which certainly are utterly unimportant, inexpensive and easy to fix, and in no way hinder the driver from enjoying the car’s performance.

    Compare the above to my host’s experience with his upscale GOlf, he told me he even had to repair or replace the pistons! Plus a litany of real, expensive, and debilitating failures, inexcusable for a 45 year old design which should be FLAWLESS by now.

    Any Unbiased person would acknowledge the above.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That Golf must be the exception, rather than the rule, or VW wouldn’t continue to be, by far, the biggest car seller in Europe.

    A current 7th generation Golf has very little in common with with a 1st gen Golf from 45 years ago, but yeah, they should have decent reliability. I suspect that in Europe, where you have an actual choice of powertrains and other options in Golfs, some are much better than others in reliability. Golfs have “average” reliability in CR’s surveys.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    “FLYING CARS FOR YOU AND ME”

    I could not imagine a more misleading title.

    First of all we have had flying cars for 100 years now, they are called helicopters. The modern drones are just a variation thereof.

    Second, ANY flying car for humans, helicopter or other, will NOT be for you and me, but only for the very wealthy, or for the fools that squander their little money, if not rich.

    The price of a heli ride is of the order of TEN TIMES the price of equivalent transport, taxi, or even high-speed ferry if applicable. I have seen this in real life between Hong Kong and Macau, the heli trip was $600 and the super-high speed ferry was a tenth of that or less.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    Also, the story repeated here about Rich Norwegians being the ones that buy the EVs.

    Stop the presses. Why is this news??? What did any of you expect, the destitute to buy the $150,000 Tesla S and Xs?

    How many times did I criticize the EV tac credit in the US by repeating the statistic that the average income of buyers of EVs and Plug-ins is 170,000, far higher than the overall national average, from whose taxes the $7,500 is paid?

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Flying cars for you and me:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-PPJ_ouGo

  40. Larry D. Says:

    36 no. there are far too many golf owners here and abroad that complained to me about their dismal reliability.

    They still have great designs, interiors, driving feel, they are considered the poor man’s quality car, feeling at home parked next to Benzes and BMWs in a way a Fiat or a Hyundai would never feel.

    And speaking of Fiats and all the lesser Euro brands, Alfa, peugeot, renault, who all came to the US and had to leave in disgrace, they all are worse than VWs in reliability, just the prices of Fiat, Renault etc parts are cheaper.

    AS I have tried to explain many times, reliability is not the number one criterion of car buyers, there are many more important considerations, (safety, fun to drive!) plus it is an emotional purchase. You are not buying a new Freezer.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    39 If you try whatever these are, could you take a hefty life insurance in my name? I’ll pay you double the premium.

    (reminds me of a cartoon of an enormous great white shark who had several shark cages around his huge body,all with the logo “Al’s Discount Shark Cages”)

  42. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h38UeDb7xw8

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    US Golfs are more reliable than Teslas, in CR’s surveys, but Tesla owner satisfaction is higher. Golf GTi ties all of the Teslas in the top ranking for owner satisfaction.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    39,41 About 6 of those were built. I have seen one at the EAA museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, but have not seen one fly. I think at least one of them is still flying. The one in the EAA museum is flyable, but is not flown.

  45. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42 Great video. That’s the one I knew of to still be flying.

  46. ChuckGrenci Says:

    42,45
    Always nice to see James May (the sane one of the ‘stooges’, but I say this with reverence for what they did in “TopGear” and “Grand Tour”). And “Grand Tour” while not in a full season run for 2020 will have some specials in which the gang will be back on Amazon Prime.

  47. Larry D. Says:

    43 Even though the Golf has been around 45 years and has no exuse, and the Tesla is a pathbreaking kind of vehicle that has been around less than a decade, and the model 3 less than 2 years,

    It is still obvious that you cannot compare APPLES to oRANGES as you do when you beancount a serious problem in the Golf to be the same as the trivial problems mentioned here today by Tesla owners.

  48. Larry D. Says:

    https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/japan-air-force-747-sale-scli-intl/index.html

    An incredible bargain, the Japanese Air Force One, a Boeing 747-400 which has flown 14 Japanese prime ministers and the country’s emperor around the world is up for sale, according to a listing on aviation trade publication Controller.

    Built in 1991, the aircraft was registered by the Japanese Air Self Defense Forces and has been modified to include a bedroom, shower, office and lounge area.

    immaculately maintained and with “low miles”, for a mere $28 million US????

    Too bad I can’t afford it nor do I need its vast interior.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    47 One of the problems with the Model 3 is the touch screen locking up. To me, that would be a serious problem, if I drove into a rain storm, and couldn’t turn on the wipers. I agree that the paint flaws are not nearly as important as, say, blown engines, though blown engines are not one of the trouble areas for the US market Golf.

    48 It’s a good deal, but would get really bad gas mileage. There would be a lot of room for big parties, though.

  50. Larry D. Says:

    49 It has 85 seats (AF1 has 70) that look ugly and cramped. One will have to redecorate and spend another 10 mill.

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    50 If the buyer can afford the $28M to buy it, and the ~10,000 liters of fuel per hour to fly it, they can afford to redecorate.

    The article says they are replacing the two 747s with 777s. The newer planes have lower operating costs, which is why most of the airlines are phasing out 747s, but no more use than the emperor’s plane gets, I’d think they’d be better off to keep using the 74s, even if they needed to redecorate them.

  52. Larry D. Says:

    51 $28 m is an incredibly low price for such a low-mile, mint condition plane which also has collectors value due to the bigwigs that used it. Many aviation museums should run to buy it. Many, many people, not just billionaires, can afford $28 m, but they don’t need all that room. The Gulfstream 650 that Oprah and Gates have costs about 70 mill, still pocket money for Gates.

    Sometimes the redecoration may cost more than the insignificant $28mill, if it is radical.

    I wonder why they didn’t auction it with a base price of 28, I bet it could get three times that in bidding.

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I read in another article that the interiors of the planes were going to museums, and that one of them was being converted for cargo. Even at the bargain price of $28M, I guess the market would be limited. It wouldn’t be a good “business jet,” both because of the operating expense, and because a lot of airports can’t handle a 747. The airlines are phasing them out. It seems likely that the one now for sale will end up flying cargo.

  54. Larry D. Says:

    53 The market will be limited, maybe 10-20 bidders, museums, or Russian Oligarchs / OPEC Sheikhs, to use as their personal plane. Maybe it cannot land on many smaller airports which makes it inconvenient and prohibitive as a personal plane. I am curious as to who will buy it.

  55. Larry D. Says:

    It is now 10 AM and I am watching a local auto show, they have a Ford Ranger Raptor Pickup which will be available in Sept for 56,000 Euros ($70,000). Looks much smaller than the F 150 Raptor that used to parked at work last winter. Curious how many they will sell, given the high license fees based on the engine ccs and the high gas prices here.

  56. Kit Gerhart Says:

    55 I doubt if they will sell many, but there are always a few people who want something “different.”

    A little unrelated, but I just read that they will make RHD C8 Corvettes. I wouldn’t think there would be enough market to justify it, better it could be a bargain “exotic” for Brits, and others.

  57. ChuckGrenci Says:

    56,
    RHD; three biggies could be Great Britain, Japan and Australia. (and that gives GM/Chevrolet an alternative to Mustang in those venues)

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I haven’t heard how Mustang has done, since they entered RHD markets. I’ll try to find some info.

  59. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The auction of the 1939 Porsche got messed up.

    Sale of Rare Nazi-Era Porsche Sputters After Sotheby’s Auction Blunder https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/19/automobiles/porsche-type-64-auction.html

  60. joe Says:

    From Larry @35

    31 “Joe is a unrepentant Tesla hater, for whatever reason”.

    Larry, @35

    You must have the wrong Joe, because I never said what you wrote @35. You either are making this up or there is another joe on this site. I never owned a VW Golf in the first place.
    But, I do believe Tesla has had quality problems like forever.
    Please make sure you have the right “joe” next time.

  61. Larry D. Says:

    60 If you are the Joe that wrote 28, then you are very much the correct Joe I was referring to.