AD #2669 – Tesla Sales Hit a Brick Wall, Porsche Taycan Not a “Tesla Killer,” Japan is Going AV Crazy

September 5th, 2019 at 11:44am

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Runtime: 8:21

0:07 Mary Barra to Meet with President Trump
0:41 U.S. Sales Stronger Than Expected
1:27 Tesla’s Sales Hit a Brick Wall
2:37 Wearable Robotics Industry Growing
3:20 More Details On the Honda e
4:13 Global Display Market to Double
4:56 Porsche Taycan Not a “Tesla Killer”
6:59 Japan is Going AV Crazy

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41 Comments to “AD #2669 – Tesla Sales Hit a Brick Wall, Porsche Taycan Not a “Tesla Killer,” Japan is Going AV Crazy”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    A. Sales: “Even so, all the analysts knew that when they forecast that sales would be lower.”

    “Those who gaze at crystal balls eat broken glass”, proof number 225 or so.

    B. “Tesla seems to have run into a brick wall”. No it sure does not. 16,000+ sales (and you forgot to say they are estimated, not real. Tesla, like FOrd GM and FCA, only reports quarterly) is not a disaster in ANY way shape or form. It is a strong sales number from a maker who sells just 3 models. Volvo with many more models barely sold 9,000 units. Acura with a dozen models, and Lincoln, and Caddy, all sold less than 10,000 units each. So are you serious, Sean?? Does not look like you are.

    C. Honda E. I am a big Honda fan and this is cute, but real range will be lousy, and, worse, it will not be cheap, but sell at twice the price of a larger Fit.

    This is the problem with all EV makers except Tesla, they ask for twice the price of the ICE equivalent car. However, the Model 3 costs no more than the 3 series it competes with, hence it sells 10 TIMES what the other EVs sell.

    And these are the facts, not just personal likes or dislikes.

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Maybe this is where Porsche got the idea of naming Taycan trim levels “turbo.”

    “Turbo USA offers accelerated dial-up at a low monthly cost. Their upgraded Turbo Premium”

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    1) Hitting a wall is a comparison to how a company was doing and then flat lining. Not how it compares to other manufacturers, so Volvo or Acura number are irrelevant.

  4. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    Guess we have returned to the 80s where everything had to have turbo in it’s name. Even when it didn’t make any sense as such is the case with an electric “turbo” car.

    I think I had a hand mixer which had a “turbo” button back in the day. Maybe that is what Porsche wants me to think of with their Taycan naming scheme.

  5. Larry D. Says:

    4 there was a New Yorker cartoon in the 80s with the hare and the tortoise from Aesop’s tale, and the tortoise had a “TURBO” logo on its shell.

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    Oh! how I would love to be a fly on the wall for the Barra/Trump conversation.

    Guess those auto sales analysists should probably stick to predicting the price of corn. Or did they buy into all the BS hype that we are in a declining economy?

    So when will they develop wearable robotics so I can play Steve Austin? Sorry Sean you might need to ask John who that is.

  7. Larry D. Says:

    “Porsche spent $6.6 billion developing the Taycan and that helps explain why it’s priced so high”

    1. Porsche sells the Taycan for $150 and $180k because it can. The billions in costs are not just for the Taycan, they will also benefit the 5 or 10 other BEVs it will offer later.

    2. The Taycan cannot carry 7 passengers like the Tesla S can (5 grownups and two kids or little women in the 3rd seat). It is between the S and the far faster and more powerful Tesla Roadster, which has an incredible 620 mile range and costs $200k, almost as much as the Taycan “Turbo” (LOL) S.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 Porsche seem to be the masters at “because they can” pricing. The bargains of the brand are probably Boxster and Cayman, if you don’t option them up. Their base prices are ~$60K. The base version of the newest 911 will be over $100K.

    The Porsche SUVs are substantially more expensive than the similar Audis, and Audi is considered a “premium” brand. The mid trim Macan, similar to a Q5 is ~%60K without options. The Macan Turbo (it actually is turbocharged) has an MSRP of ~$84K.

  9. ChuckGrenci Says:

    While turbo is usually short for turbo-charged, the word turbo can be used in other definitions; one being: powerful, mighty, etc. Porsche’s use may in fact become another well known adjective for the electrified field. There is already Turbo-tax, turbo powered PC, etc. Let think outside of the box (on this one).

  10. James P Says:

    “Tesla Sales Hit a Brick Wall” is a shameless click-bait headline. Model 3 sales are still production-limited. OF COURSE sales are being diverted to Europe and China, this is obvious to any casual observer since Tesla only started selling Model 3s in Europe and China this year.
    Year over year US sales are necessarily down since production hasn’t increased enough to offset the international sales. GLOBAL Model 3 sales are still significantly higher.

  11. James P Says:

    BTW the Model S and Model X sales decline is real, but not new. S and X sales have been down significantly all year.

  12. Lambo2015 Says:

    9 There is a Pizza place that offers Turbo crust. I always found it odd but maybe cause the place is called Jets Pizza.
    So I get your point about using Turbo as an adjective but when it comes to cars it really shouldn’t be used unless it does in fact have a turbo. IMO

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    9 With Porsche, Turbo tends to mean the more expensive, and usually more powerful trim levels, even though nearly everything they now sell is turbocharged, except for those plug-in electrics.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Another term that really has strange usage, is neon. Neon is the second lightest of the “noble” gases, and emits orange-red light in a gas discharge tube, but the term “neon” is used for bright shades of green, magenta, blue, or whatever, with no relationship with the gas itself, or the light it emits in an electrified tube.

  15. Lambo2015 Says:

    12 I’ve heard it also called safety yellow or safety green etc. Yes the designation for anything bright.

  16. cwolf Says:

    In short, the word “turbo” really means they want to charge the buyer more money!

  17. cwolf Says:

    An observation: I have seem several more new overpriced Ridgelines near me. The lines are smooth and the look is simple and clean. Best of all, the bed sides are level and not tapered down from the cab to the tailgate. I really like the damn thing. Very practical for most buyers.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15 CR and Car and Driver agree that the Ridgeline is the best mid-size pickup, for the way most of them are used. Such agreement is fairly rare.

    As far as pricing, the Ridgline base price is higher than others, but not shopping that market, I haven’t sorted out “as equipped” prices. It may, or may not be as overpriced as it appears, given base prices.

  19. wmb Says:

    While I am, like a few are, disappointed in the numbers of this Porche in comparison to the 7-8 year old Tesla (that being weight, power, 0-60 mph and range), we may need a little prospective. The Model S of today, is not the same Model S that the world was originally introduced to and has over the years grown into the powerhouse that it is. While it is a shame that an established automaker like Porsche, couldn’t build an EV that matches or exceeds the standards that Tesla has set, in no way does that mean it’s owners will be disappointed in their purchase! As said by others, it just demonstrates what a colossal effort it was/is to produce the product that Tesla makes look easy. While others can build vehicles that sell for $250k-$7.4 million and can break the 304 mph mark, not one has been able to make a (arguably) reasonably priced EV that can match or beat Tesla,…yet!

  20. wmb Says:

    …working with the same bones as the Taycan, I believe the Audi E-Tron will compete with the Tesla Model S’s lower priced versions. I always was left scratching my head, when I read that the E-Tron was going to come with a shorter range then the Taycan, even though they built from the same hardware. Now it makes more since, with the Porche/VW Group having spent so much on this EV platform. The added economies of scale by sharing with Audi, Porche being on the higher end of the EV market and Audi on the lower end.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 The E-tron is an SUV, a footer taller than the Taycan, and is considerably heavier. From what I’ve read, both have the same battery size, so it’s no surprise that the Taycan has more range.

  22. joe Says:

    Larry 10

    You are so in love with Tesla that you can not see reality. It is true that Tesla sells just a few models and that’s where the problems is. Other auto maker have ICE cars and can carry on even when EV’s are not selling well. Tesla does not have that luxury.

    Below, I’ve been sending this link and so far you’ve ignored it. Why? Is it because the list is true?

    https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/1017993-bill-maurer/4998156-teslas-growing-failure-list-august-2019-update

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 The E-tron GT, coming in a year or two, should be simililar to, but much less pricey than the Taycan. It might be a real competitor to Model S, price-wise.

  24. Larry D. Says:

    https://europe.autonews.com/sales-market/ev-sales-surge-uk-market-down-2-august?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190906&utm_content=article11-headline

    378% surve in EV sales in the UK, despite overall sales there down

  25. Larry D. Says:

    24 SURGE, not … ‘surve’. And i bet 366% of it was Tesla model 3s

    So much about hitting brick walls…

  26. Larry D. Says:

    23 I will be very surprised when I see any automaker offer a car with the same features as any Tesla, at the same price. So far they have been far more expensive or far less worthy.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26, 23 The Audi won’t be as roomy as the Model S, but might have better build quality. As far as 0-60 times and range, Tesla is going to be hard to catch. They have that stuff down, and seem to have motors that are at least somewhat more efficient than others, eepecially iPace.

  28. Lambo2015 Says:

    24 The key piece of information in that article was the actual number of vehicles. I mean they might have only sold 10 cars the previous month and 3780 in August to see that % increase. So without the actual number the percentage means nothing and it says nothing about the increase being largely attributed to Tesla so thats just again random speculation on your part.

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    26 On AAH yesterday Mike Tracy was dead on with his thoughts on EVs. Tesla was the first automaker to get it right that EVs would be expensive at first and needed to be a luxury car. While all the other makers were creating these stupid EV econobox cars that had an ICE versions to compete with getting decent MPG at half the sticker price or less. Tesla went after the EV luxury market which could justify the price and also be electric. The rest are now all playing catch up. Great show.

  30. Larry D. Says:

    28 The far more important piece of info was mentioned yesterday in the interesting AAH.

    Where they repeated what I already knew, that in Europe, unlike in the US (at least until Jan 20, 2021), Governments, not the consumers, are pushing EVs down their throats with all kinds of incentives and disincentives (for ICEs), so their future growth is inevitable.

  31. Larry D. Says:

    30 Which will really make Joe’s day… NOT!

  32. Larry D. Says:

    29 Exactly. And it continued it with the Model 3, a Series 3 equivalent, sold at or below Series 3 prices.

    Another very important data point is that in the healthy August Auto sales reported yesterday, the average transaction price climbed to $37k+, putting the Model 3 in the now affordable performance-near luxury-green car category.

    And in 2020- the latest 21, when the SUV Tesla model Y crossover debuts, we will have another affordable mass BEV.

    I would not worry much if I were Musk. Especially given his sweet (and huge) deal in China with the Shanghai Factory (which I may get to see in person this November, when I will be in the area on business), and the fertile ground for expansion in Europe too.

  33. Lambo2015 Says:

    30 That’s a interesting point. So are EVs that attractive or is the governments throwing so much money at this to make them attractive? What will happen when those incentives stop?
    Don’t get me wrong I believe there is going to continue to be a market for EVs even if there isn’t a battery breakthrough. I believe that people are just now starting to see their potential and how they should properly be used. Major cities with high pollution and a proper infrastructure to charge will quickly adapt to EVs and it makes sense. Such as inner city busses, taxis, police and service vehicles. Where it will struggle to expand is the people who own a single vehicle, don’t own a home, and travel too much. All things considered I really don’t see the EVs ever accounting for more than 25% of vehicle sales even if they are at the same price point without Gov. assistance.

  34. Lambo2015 Says:

    33 Shouldn’t have said ever.. But until there is a better battery or power source to put EVs on par with ICE for range and refilling time. My guess is at that point it wont be any cheaper than gas and the only advantage will be emissions. Still a good thing just no savings to the consumer which is still a ridiculous incentive that keeps being thrown out to make EVs attractive and $ is not really one.

  35. Larry D. Says:

    30 it’s the policy. I assume they will develop the infrastructure they need too, supercharger networks etc.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    34 in Europe it’s not like in the US, and some EU nations have huge DIS-incentives that make it very painful to use a powerful ICE car downtown, huge tolls etc. I was told that in Brussels, belgium, to drive one’s Bentley into town it costs in the 100s of Euros each time.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/09/volkswagen-retrofitting-electric-powertrains-into-old-beetles/#more-1687534

    Does this make any sense?

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37 Part of what gives an old Beetle “character” is the unique sound, with the timing gear noise, etc. Done properly, though, it would certainly drive better as an EV, if they can make the suspension accomodate the extra 50%+ in weight.

  39. Larry D. Says:

    38 I think VW is trying to make its EVs look cool, it is introducing its new EV today.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    If they ever want to do a 3rd generation New Beetle, a rear drive EV would be perfect.

  41. Lambo2015 Says:

    37 I expect to see more retro-fit EV systems available in the coming years. The new Hot Rod fad will be to electrify old classics. Why not?