AD #2690 – Lincoln To Make More Coach Door Continentals, EV Sales Slow, Driver’s Don’t Trust Lane Keep Systems

October 4th, 2019 at 11:43am

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Runtime: 6:27

0:07 EV Sales Slow in September
0:52 Mitsubishi Teases Tokyo Concepts
1:30 Driver’s Don’t Trust Lane Keeping Systems
2:40 Lucid Motors Inches Closer to Production
3:26 Tesla to Start Production in China This Month
3:40 Home Charging Station Gets Level 2 Upgrade
4:20 Larger Wheels Are Becoming More Common
4:50 Lincoln To Make More Coach Door Continentals

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65 Comments to “AD #2690 – Lincoln To Make More Coach Door Continentals, EV Sales Slow, Driver’s Don’t Trust Lane Keep Systems”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    “The cars starts at $115,000 compared to $46,000 for a regular base Continental and that alone explains why Lincoln is bringing the car back. That’s the way to make a profit!”

    That’s what the boys in Caddy thought when they priced the smaller than the Volt coupe the ELR at… $75k… and they learned nothing from their previous failure, when they priced that Corvette Clone the XLR or whatever, at an equally RIDICULOUS price.

    The market is 17 million cars a year. Ford was able to sell 80 (not 80 thousand, or eighty hundred, but just eighty!!!) for ALL of last year? Good Job, Ford. PS Quality is job 100 out of 100, thanks to its partnership with the crooks of Mahindra.

  2. Larry D. Says:

    “that alone explains why Lincoln is bringing the car back.”

    Not alone. There is Halloween too, which it seems is not a HoliDAY but a HoliMONTH, it has started everywhere already.

  3. Bob Wilson Says:

    Tesla has shown that a clean-sheet, EV design beats traditional automakers who try to cheaply swap a motor and batteries into an ICE body using legacy ICE design rules. Traditional auto EVs are heavy, modest performance, and costly. They try to retain customers who otherwise would join the “4%” growth of Tesla. For example, the Karma Revero vs BMW i3-REx (see web link.)

    EV range: 37 mi vs BMW 126 mi. kWh/100 mi: 56 kWh vs BMW 32 kWh. Gas MPG: 20 MPG vs BMW 31 MPG. The Karma still uses gas car design rules and it shows in lower performance versus the clean-sheet, BMW i3-REx.

    As for lane keeping, Tesla released V10 AutoPilot, 2019.32.11.1, which I got six days ago. Lane keeping has improved with every AutoPilot version and the latest is even smoother with excellent keeping in the lane center. Earlier AutoPilot versions that the IIHS tested were ‘fidgety’ and a little wandering but stayed within the lane markers and curb.

  4. Jon M. Says:

    I hope the participants in the lane keep assist who did not trust the systems did not expect the cars to keep perfectly within marked lanes at all times. Notice the word “assist” in lane keep assist. Of course the system won’t be foolproof or perfect, its not lane keep takeover. Nevertheless, as for my own car, its done a pretty good job when the lanes are well marked; however, I’ve always been confident in my ability to stay in my own lane. Even so, I’m not perfect, so it comes in handy to ASSIST me at times. And yes, it nibbles!

  5. Larry D. Says:

    4 You can stay in your own lane as long as you are awake, but if you doze off? I like this lane departure warning thing and the fact it is so inexpensive, even Hyundais and Kias got it.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 The Karma Revero’s number that really stands out as bad is 20 mpg on gas. It is basically a gas car, with only 37 miles of electric range, and the gas mileage is horrible, with its series hybrid powertrain.

  7. Larry D. Says:

    6 I watched the AAH show and it was unbelievable how soft they were on the guest. Well, maybe not unpredictable. This 5,000 fat hog barely has room for two decent seats up front, the rear looks extremely cramped, is it a 2+2? Vs the 7 seats of the spacious Tesla S? They hope to sell 500 of these “All hat, no cattle” shapely inefficient plug-ins at $150k? I guess if ‘snob appeal’ works, they may sell them to 500 unfortunates.

  8. Brett Cammack Says:

    Lincoln sells out custom, highly profitable version of the Continental. Decides to make some more after identifying demand. Therefore, Lincoln is a moron. Got it.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    8 In September sales, Ford, which used to be the second biggest automaker for decades, thanks to their utterly idiotic decision to kill all their cars, and waste billions on pie in the sky mobility and AV, in September 2019 FOrd was FOURTH, behind FCA AND Toyota. (you tell me if you still believe in Ford’s genius)

    As for the Continental, FIRST FOrd killed it a mere year or two after wasting billions to develop and produce it. Then it took a TINY 80 of these and made them into ridiculously priced limo-kinds of things. I reminded you the car market in the US is 17,000,000 a year. COmpare that to the 80 and their MEASLY profit (not per car, in absolute numbers). DO you really think this is the ticket, this will save Ford from ruin?

  10. Bob Wilson Says:

    AutoPilot is not yet ‘perfect’ as some lane lines can confuse it. One reproducible problem are curved, dash lines in an angled intersection (see YouTube in link.) This remains a problem since I first started using AutoPilot.

    Now the ‘network nannies’ keep posting silly nonsense about the Tesla Owner’s manual and where AutoPilot is supposed to be used. I treat it like the Nigerian e-mails.

  11. Larry D. Says:

    Speaking for FOrd, we just had our annual homecoming luncheon out in the grass under a tent (perfect weather!) and one honored alumnus was Randy V., some guy who almost did a PhD here but ended up going to Ford, where, a few years ago, he was a bigwig VP of something. Today I heard that he is now in charge of FOrd’s AV folly. (that’s not why we gave him the alumnus award, I assume they did due to his position, in the hopes he gives our Dept some research contracts, and if we are lucky, chip in (Ford, not him!) a donation for our new buildings.

  12. Larry D. Says:

    10 Tesla and Musk got carried away and named it “Autopilot” when in fact it is not a 100% AP. They shoulda come up with a more modest name, now they may have to waste time in court with lawsuits.

  13. ChuckGrenci Says:

    6, Kit didn’t the AAH on the Karma state 80 miles electric (with the 3 cyl BMW engine as the extender); can’t think a 3 cyl, even in help mode would only get 20 mpg.

    And the BEV flatline: ‘If you build it they MAY come’ but lately, not so much. I believe it is going to take government subsides and mandates for the BEV’s to get back in the conquest numbers (at least in the short and moderate run).

  14. Larry D. Says:

    13 Untested BEV startups is where Venture capital goes to DIE.

  15. Jim Haines Says:

    Still don’t get all the hype about the really small Lincoln deal on this channel constantly I live in Northern Virginia I see zero Lincoln’s anymore after they all moved to Florida with handicapped tags

  16. Larry D. Says:

    “Each of the stretched luxury sedans with reverse-hinged rear doors were priced at just over $110,000 a pop, or about $30,000 more than the fully loaded Black Label models on which they’re based.”

    So John/Sean it is a bit inaccurate to compare the stretch job to the base Continental. it is not based on that, but on the much more expensive Black Label ($75k or more)

  17. Larry D. Says:

    15 even worse are the almost daily stories about the next Volvo – Chinese Geely PR release.

  18. Bob Wilson Says:

    #12 – I hate getting into semantics but Tesla has two terms, “AutoPilot” and “Full Self Driving.” AutoPilot is like current, private plane autopilot that holds heading, changes altitudes but does NOT land the plane.

    “Full Self Driving” is an extra $6-10k, currently not available but can be bought early. It also comes with a computer upgrade. But I agree that I consider “AutoPilot” to really be a “Co-Pilot.” Still, much better than the earlier version called “backseat driver.”

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    Not sure if Sept is a sign of the future to come, but as I have said here many times before the EV market is not as large as predictions have led people to believe. They speak in terms of EVs completely replacing ICE vehicles and although I can foresee it happening someday, I believe that date is a long way out without some major battery development. Especially in the US market. For now we may start to see things flatline with EV sales stalling around 2% of overall sales. Indecently sales should be reported as a percentage of overall because like last year when many were just launching they show crazy increases from previous year but that’s deceiving. Like we sold 100 cars in 2017 and in 2018 sales tripled. Big deal you still only sold 300 cars.

  20. Albemarle Says:

    I heard that Volvo was in discussions to have Mahindra make smaller models for them at their new US factory.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13. The Karma uses a GM turbo 4. The BMW i8 uses a BMW turbo 3, probably a hopped up version of the one in a base Mini. The EPA electric range for the Karma is 37 miles.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    i8 EPA electric range is 23 miles. I’ve read that both i3 and i8 will soon be discontinued.

  23. Wine Geek Says:

    Some thoughts on your comments today:

    1) The traditional automakers can’t sell electric cars because the salespeople don;t want to or aren’t trained to sell them. When I went to purchase an eTron the salespeople spent the entire time I was there trying to convince me to buy a regular Audi not an eTron. This is my second experience with a traditional automaker’s salespeople trying to talk me out of buying an BEV or plug-in. If the salespeople worked as hard at selling these vehicles as they did trying to talk me out of buying one they would be much more successful.

    2) As LKA I was so disappointed in Toyota selling me a Prius with the LKA that didn’t work at all even though they promoted that the LKA operating the same in all their models. It was a major disappointment to have a Toyota factory rep tell me that it was the same even though we drove in the Camry, RAV4, and Prius and the Prius system didn’t work. The LKA wouldn’t keep you in any lane at all while the other two models worked just fine. I have driven a Subaru Outback with the LKA that works just fine. My recommendation drive the vehicle on an extended test drive and be sure you are happy with the holds you in the lane before you buy.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 Officer I’m not drunk its my cars LKA.

  25. Bob Wilson Says:

    #23 – I fully agree with “a Prius with the LKA that didn’t work” as in the Prius Prime, it was more Lane Keep Alert. It would let me know I’d wander across lane but not correct in any meaningful sense. For example, I once let the reminder tug work but it sent the car across the lane and out the other side. … Useless.

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    25 I had a Toyota Highlander rental with LKA and it was about 75% reliable to sound the audible tone that the lane was detected and about 50% when it came to actually correcting and trying to keep the vehicle in its lane. About 25% successful at actually applying enough effort to maintain the lane. Which I found it odd that some times it would beep that the vehicle was leaving its lane but not make any correction at all. The assist portion seemed to weak and random at best.

  27. Dave Says:

    Level 2 charger it’s called a dryer plug

  28. Lambo2015 Says:

    I worked for a company years ago, when electronic gas pedals were first making there way into passenger cars. It was a pretty simple transition as the only feedback to the driver is a spring feel. It essentially moved from the carb to the pedal-box. Then a wire transmits a signal to the throttle actuator. At the time there was a big push for “drive by wire” and eliminating any mechanical connection from the driver and the car controls. I guess to offer more design freedom. Anyway braking was a lot harder as you get feedback while braking and can sort feel if you need to brake harder or lighter to prevent a slide. Same goes for steering as you need that feedback from the wheel and so duplicating that feel was a struggle. That haptic motion that is given in these LKA systems basically started from attempting to develop a steer by wire system.
    Rather than steer the car they now provide feedback and assist features.
    Personally I prefer to drive and be in complete control of the car. Assist features seem like gimmicks to me and even on my rental after a day or two I turned it off. Between the beeping and wheel tugging it was annoying more than an assist feature.
    The only good feature of the system is it does make the driver use their blinker to change any lane or you find yourself fighting the wheel tug.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The lane keep assist seems to work on my Camry, but I never use it. I played with it a little when I first got the car, but normally have it turned off.

  30. cwolf Says:

    I’m not a fan of all electronics in todays vehicles and think getting out of the ICE car market is happening too soon and a missed opportunity.; I think Honda car sales are doing well.
    So I am wondering if the likes of Ford, GM and Chry. build cars without all the EL gizmo’s, they could save enough money on labor and the parts to make another “go” of it? Looks like the demand is still there, not everyone can afford a truck/suv and most have no desire for an EV.

  31. cwolf Says:

    Do level 2 home chargers charge to full 100% or only to 80%, or are they programmable?

  32. cwolf Says:

    I have come to accept larger wheels; I have them on my Lincoln. So now that I am an expert, I think they have become more common simply because of aesthetics. For me, I believe a 55 series tire gives the best ride without too much “sponge” going around corners. Hitting a pot-hole with a 45 series or less makes you wonder if you’re driving a tractor!

  33. Bob Wilson Says:

    #31 – The home EVSE can adjust amps and when. The vehicle handles the state of charge limit … if it has that feature. Our Tesla does but the BMW i3-REx does not.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 To me, huge wheels are a fad, like bottled water in places with safe tap water. I get the smallest available wheels, when there is a choice. They are 16 inch, 65 series on the Camry, and 18/19 on the Corvette. I remember Car and Driver doing a test a few years ago, of handling of a car with three different wheel sizes, with appropriate tire profile to get the same rolling radius. They found almost no difference in handling, but the smaller wheels with taller tires gave a better ride and less road noise. I think they used a BMW 3 series or similar.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 What size are your wheels, 18?

  36. cwolf Says:

    Lincoln has 245/40/19′s. they are not standard. I bought the car with my father-in-laws discount and end of year. Take what remains time.

  37. joe Says:

    12 Tesla does not have to worry about lawsuits, because they know it’s just a matter of time before they file for bankruptcy. There’s way too many things wrong with that company, but fan boys like yourself will say differently!

    https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/1017993-bill-maurer/4998156-teslas-growing-failure-list-august-2019-update

  38. XA351GT Says:

    @ #1 The difference is no one wanted the Volt at 45 K they sure as hell weren’t going to buy the ELR at nearly double the price. Obviously people thought the Lincoln was worth the ridiculous price if the sold all 80 cars in 48 hours. Now we will have to wait and see if they can catch lightning in the bottle twice which rarely happens.

  39. JWH Says:

    Lane Keeping Assist – When we first got a vehicle with this two years ago, I would let the vehicle drift a little (when there was no traffic in sight) just to see how it functioned. After a week or so, I drive normally & it never engages. Reminds me of when ABS first showed up 30 years ago, I would hit the brake pedal hard (on low coefficient friction surfaces) to experience how it functioned. While today’s ABS is much less intrusive, it is a rare occurrence that it is engaged.
    Automatic cruise – On recent vehicles purchased, I’ve chosen to pass on this option. I believe driver should remain engaged.

  40. Larry D. Says:

    38

    1. the only reason they were able to sell those 80 is that they ONLY MADE 80.

    2. Even then, the price diff was NOT double, as with the VOlt and the ELR, but much less, like 50% higher, AND for that they got a lot of extra room and stuff and the only suicide doors except for ROLLS ROYCE. the $110000 was vs the $80000 BLACK LABEL, NOT the base COntinental!

    So Lincoln was FAR more reasonable here than Caddy repeatedly has been (ELR, XLR, Allante if you want to go further back, what an utter ripoff!)

  41. Bob Wilson Says:

    Concerned about recent Tesla thefts and it being Halloween, I made my own, anti-theft device (see web link.) Curiously, it seems to have scared away the AutoPilot, lane keeping, steering nag too. Huh.

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    40 It’s a better buy than an ELR, but it’s still a stretch Fusion, with the extra stretch done by a chop shop, which probably results in much more chassis flex.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    42 The main point I wanted to make but was distracted, is that this story about the 80 is hardly newsworthy.

    The transcript said “That’s the way to make a profit!”

    Let’s look into that. Being over-generous and assuming the modification cost nothing, so the $30k price diff over the “Black label” was all pure profit, then the TOTAL profit from all 80 was $2,400k, or… 2.4 Mill. Mill, not Billion! And we are talking about Ford, not… “Karma”, and Ford loses several billion (or makes several billion)in any given year.

    Some profit. Even in the absolute best case, not even 0.1-0.2% of the net profit (or loss). I call that “accounting noise”.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    In other news, filled the tank after.. almost 5 months(had previously filled it at the end of May, then was away until Aug 31). My discounts still held and totaled 0.3+0.25=$0.55, so I paid $2.549 for a gallon of diesel. Nice to see the display give a range of 710 miles again. (If i only did highway miles, I assume that would start at 780-800. Pity I have no long business trips by car the last 4 years, this is where this car would shine, go to any Northeast coast city on one tank, and get 35-37-40 MPG depending on the amount of lead in my foot.

  45. MJB Says:

    #8. Totally agree ;)

    #1, 2, 9, 16, 40, 43 – I think the point of the A.D. piece was that the car sold out in it’s initial run, and now Lincoln is making more in order to capitalize on the unexpected market acceptance.

    Yes, they “only sold 80 because they only made 80″, but small is precisely what a market test is supposed to be.

    Must you vilify even the sensible actions of the domestics?

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    45 How much does the chop shop charge to do the modification? I’d think that would be expensive, cutting the car in half, welding in a six inch “leaf,” making the door, and all of the special trim parts. Does Ford make any money on it, or is the project “just for fun”?

  47. Larry D. Says:

    45 What market acceptance? 80 units in a 17 million market is nothing. It proves nothing of the sort, please.

    I assumed the very, very rosiest scenario, that it cost NOTHING for all the modifications, and still the alleged “big profit” is 0.1% of Ford’s profit or loss in any given year. As I said, this is “accounting noise”, not profit.

    More interestingly, I just saw the latest Motorweek on my desktop (on the pbs website) and they compared 4 small pickups. The GM(GMC) one finished dead last, thanks to its lousy interior (GM never learns?), the Gladiator was third (and was $10k more expensive than the others, it had a ton of problems), the Ranger was no 2 and the Ridgeline won the test, and was the lowest priced even though it had the best interior and very clever design.

  48. Larry D. Says:

    45 and why was it “unexpected” to be able to sell a MEASLY 80 units? Do you know how many hugely overpriced ELR’s Caddy sold? Hundreds every month for the few months or year they offered it. They still killed it, as they did the XLR. 80 units proves NOTHING. You can make anything, price it for $200k, and stick a lux label on it, and make 100 of them, and 100 Barnum suckers will rush to buy it easily.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    47 C&D disagreed a lot, except for first place.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15378489/best-midsize-trucks/

  50. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Kit, the link wouldn’t work for me (perhaps a subscription is required?) Anyway, maybe a truck magazine needs to do the comparison and list its top four (or whatever); the Ridgeline is car based and the others body on frame (you know, a real truck). Maybe GM needs to bring back the El Camino (Caballero for GMC), just kidding; but put those truck, doing truck things (off-road, heavy hauling and maybe a better overall ranking might occur). And I realize that most trucks don’t do truck things, but for real truck guys, they want a truck.

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    50 Maybe I didn’t copy and paste the link right. I found the article by googling “midsize truck comparison.” Anyway, they ranked them, from 1 to 7, Ridgeline, Colorado, Canyon, Gladiator, Ranger, Tacoma, Frontier. I didn’t read the whole article, but was curious about why the Ranger ranked so low. It seem to be not-too-good suspension, and they weren’t too fond of the turbo four/auto as the only powertrain choice.

  52. Larry D. Says:

    50, 51 see 47

  53. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I watched the Motorweek review; I will maintain, for the truck buyer that wants a truck, the Ridgeline should not have received ‘the star’. And I think other than Ridgeline on C&D’s review, I could embrace their pick choices better. And will say it again, for most buyers the Ridgeline makes a lot of sense (if you don’t want/need to take your truck to the max).

  54. Kit Gerhart Says:

    53 Motorweek, C&D, and CR all rate Ridgeline highest, probably because it is the best for the way most people actually use them. Still, it is capable of doing some “trucky” things, with a tow rating of 5000 pounds.

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Motor Trend ranked thr “midsize” trucks a little differently, in this order, Colorado, Ridgeline, Ranger, Tacoma.

    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/colorado/2019/chevrolet-colorado-ford-ranger-honda-ridgeline-toyota-tacoma-comparison/

  56. Larry D. Says:

    55 MW said TOyota did not give them a Tacoma (probably knew why) and the cheapskates did not rent one for the test.

  57. Larry D. Says:

    54 Right, because most people use pickups NOT as pickups, BUT they are poseurs, they want them to LOOK like Pickups, and the First Gen Ridgeline sure did not, and the second is only marginally better. SO Honda is in a no-win situation, shown by the low sales of the Ridge.

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    In “road test” scores, CR ranked them Ridgeline, Colorado/Canyon, Ranger, Gladiator, and Tacoma. They haven’t even tested a recent Frontier, probably knowing that if would finish a solid last.

    In spite of nearly all published road tests rating it low, the Taco is the one that has a following, and unlike most Toyotas, it isn’t even especially reliable.

  59. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I found a comparo from TFL ’16 (others) and ’17 Ridgeline. They all liked the Honda (Pilot with a bed) in the city but overheated (transmission) when it went off road. Others included were the Frontier, Toyota and GMC Canyon. Even though dated, the data should still be somewhat relevant. Here’s a link if so desired to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5eE697aqEg

  60. Kit Gerhart Says:

    59 That was interesting. I’m not surprised that the Ridgeline had the transmission overheating off-road, not having low range, so it was seriously churning the toque converter oil when driving in the rocks. The Ridgeline is clearly not intended for off-road use.

    That is the only test I’ve seen where the Frontier “won,” or even came in better than last place, but for that use, the crudeness doesn’t matter, the locking rear diff was good, and the truck was cheaper than the others.

  61. Larry D. Says:

    My memory was incorrect when I said that in 2016 I did not see many electric Chinese Vespas on campus, as I did in 2006. I was going thru some notes from my 2016 trip and not only did I aee a huge number of them again, I noted they were the ideal transportation vehicle in that huge campus in the summer, where most walking from apt to office was 20-30 mins one way.

  62. Kit Gerhart Says:

    61 Do you see the scooters being charged outside, or do they maybe charge them in their apartments?

  63. Larry D. Says:

    62 Did not notice, but in less than 4 weeks I should be in the same campus and I can ask around.

  64. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/future-product/era-electrification?utm_source=weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20191007&utm_content=article6-image

    It will not let me read it because it alleges i am not a subscriber (I never was, but my U has multiple subscriptions), but you may be able to. 100 future EVs from major makers.

  65. Kit Gerhart Says:

    64 It won’t let me read it, even as one of my 3 or so free articles per month, I guess because it is “premium” content.