AD #2709 – Details of Ford’s New Labor Contract, Fisker Reveals More About SUV, Women at Higher Risk in Crashes

November 1st, 2019 at 11:52am

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Runtime: 12:07

0:07 More UAW Corruption Revealed
0:46 Details of Ford’s New Labor Contract
1:18 How GM Will Offset Higher Labor Costs
2:27 Collision Tech for Motorcycles
3:10 Fisker Reveals More About Electric SUV
4:16 Rockstar Customizes Hyundai Kona for SEMA
4:45 NASCAR Camaro Gets New Design
5:12 Women at Higher Risk in Crashes
6:42 What Powertrain is Best for AVs?
8:53 You Said It!

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66 Comments to “AD #2709 – Details of Ford’s New Labor Contract, Fisker Reveals More About SUV, Women at Higher Risk in Crashes”

  1. GM Veteran Says:

    New design for Camaro race car won’t change the fact that NASCAR is still zzzzzzzzzz . . .

    Wow, Tesla dominated the You Said It segment. Gotta respect their dedicated fan base.

    More UAW corruption revealed. This investigation is kinda like the mining or oil industries: the more you look, the more you find.

  2. Andrew T. Harris Says:

    While I’m all for changes to make it safer for women. But we are also a larger than what we were in the 70’s, both height and girth. What do studies about that?

  3. Drew Says:

    Regarding female crash statistics, do we know the % of today’s female population that meets the circa 70’s male dummy specs? Do we know the behavioral differences between male and female drivers?

    CR, IIHS, and NHTSA are citing anecdotal data. Decades ago, men were more aggressive drives. But today, I see as many aggressive/reckless female drivers as male drivers, and I see more occurrences of female distracted drivers. These personal observations are also anecdotal.

    Perhaps less anecdotal is the vehicle mix difference between men and women…. more men in large pickups vs. more women in smaller sedans and CUVs. F=MA.

  4. Rey cabal Says:

    Fisker is lost in his OCEAN of fantasy , and Tesla is so far ahead in BEVs nobody is even in sight,someday old Auto will get 300 mile range BEVs , Teslas will have 500-600 mile range options.

  5. ChuckGrenci Says:

    3 Drew
    All good points, and I wonder how the comparisons would be by frame size (either male or female). And maybe, inherently, the male body for the most part, is more robust. I guess more corrective ‘safeties’ could be made, using the female dummies’ statistics/characteristics (but that might also still reflect in a bias of men representing a safer outcome.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Most recent cars have height adjustment for the upper shoulder belt position, but are they often adjusted too high for shorter women? If a vehicle has multiple drivers, the belt would likely be adjusted high enough to be comfortable for a taller driver, and might remain in that position, maybe too high for best protection of a shorter driver.

  7. Albemarle Says:

    Wouldn’t it be interesting if a few comparative crash tests were done with different size people? Just how safe is the 6’ 2” 220lb man in the drivers seat? Might turn out to be not at all safe. How about that very short elderly woman looking through the steering wheel? Her airbag would be directed at her head. Not good.

    Now that cars are getting so much safer for the statistical average man driver with his statistical wife beside him, lets expand the tests to cover the real world, like was done with the small offset tests.

  8. MJB Says:

    Could proximity to the steering wheel play a factor in the higher rates of injury/fatalities in women drivers? I sometimes notice women drivers ‘crowding’ the steering wheel (less than 6 inches from it) instead of sitting back fully in the seat. Being that close to an airbag when it goes off can’t be a good thing.

  9. Ed Says:

    On the female and make crash results. It is obvious to me that these are old androgynous dummies of two sizes. These two dummies represent humans of a given size. To apply sex to them is to promote a certain construct. There are many women who drive and fit the Larger dummy and those who fit the smaller, the Same for men. The smarter thing would be to have more of a range of dummies that represent the majority of people as a whole and design and crash test from there. To phrase it that “ puts them at risk” reads as though the tests were deliberate to put women specifically at risk. The originators of these tests had no such intention. These tests were originated to try and help all people of all sizes to move toward a better outcome in safety for anyone in a vehicle, and for anyone in a vehicle today are less likely to be injured as a whole.

  10. Barry Rector Says:

    Does Tesla sell in all 50 states or are they prohibited because of franchise laws? If not, wouldn’t that help boost their US sales?

  11. Bob White Says:

    Some tesla fanboys don’t like reality and are twisting facts. They’re acting like political fanatics.

  12. Roger Says:

    And all those higher labor costs GM is stuck with will be passed onto the consumer making vehicles even more expensive and unattainable for the masses. Just think if those jobs weren’t filled by overpaid UAW workers, but by regular workers being paid a fair wage for doing UNSKILLED jobs, vehicle prices would drop by a third!

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 The prices would only drop about 7%, if they didn’t pay them at all. The labor cost per vehicle at GM will be$2350 for 2019, according to autonews.

  14. Gerry Says:

    So GM will continue with their cost cutting to offset the fact that they have the highest labour costs in the industry.

    More cheapening of vehicles on the way.

  15. JWH Says:

    Continues to be very disappointing to hear about ongoing corruption in the UAW being exposed. These people should be representing their members & working to their members benefit – Not living high on the hog at their members expense.

  16. John McElroy Says:

    #10. 20 states have banned Tesla from selling cars or limited how many stores it can have. Collectively those states have a population of 166 million people who buy more than 8 million new cars a year. That’s a huge chunk of the market that Tesla is largely missing. I think Tesla could dramatically boost sales if not for this.

  17. Larry D. Says:

    15 It took 15 posts for somebody to comment on the UNbelievable, disgusting corruption of the UAW so-called leaders.

    It is even more disgusting that the criminal ‘leaders’ will just be asked to ‘step down’?

    Way to go, thousands of corrupt future leaders will take their place, if they don’t do serious jail time.

    And while all this is happening, we have Dr. Data and Dr. Clueless who think Tesla’s success is not due to their vastly superior designs AND competitive pricing, but due to some crazy ‘fan base’. Laughable, if it was not so pitiful.

  18. XA351GT Says:

    I wonder if Ford will answer Chevy by adopting the super aggressive GT 500 styling? Still don’t understand why Mopar isn’t in there running a Challenger.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I just heard on NPR that more than 1/3 of car loans are more than 6 years. It’s worse than I realized. Talk about being “underwater” during most of the life of a loan.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 I think Sergio, or someone decided that NASCAR wasn’t worth it. Dodge went out with a championship,though, the last year before Penske switched to Ford.

  21. buildmore2doors Says:

    I hope the Ocean has an adjustable suspension because that front fascia looks way too low to the ground to even think about taking off road.

    Why are the head restraints removed from the seats when they do the crash testing, seems like you would want to test them also.

    Anybody who thinks the Tesla Y is an SUV needs to buy a bridge from me located in Brooklyn, it’s even more ridiculous than the bloated X being for off road duty.

  22. Rob Twigg Says:

    I think the increase labour cost would be taken care of from Trumps corporate tax cut no problem, interesting no one mentioned that

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 From the pictures so far, the Model Y looks much better than an SUV, an almost car-like hatchback.

  24. Rob Twigg Says:

    Hey Roger you say if the workers were not over paid the vehicles would drop a third really , they have slave labour in Mexico so do they pass the savings to the consumer, you say unskilled labour , what do you think they should be paid an hour? sounds to me you a jealous person , the workers are not over paid at all , the only way a corporation can give back to society is to pay there greatest asset ( there workers ) a fair wage so they can support the economy, do not forget labour cost are a tax right of , no body mentions that,

  25. cwolf Says:

    Reducing initial problems will help lower costs.
    But if automakers really want to increase market share and make more money, why not return to the idea of making vehicles that people really want, instead of focusing on the competition and shareholders?

    Tesla , for now, reins in the EV market, but what EXACTLY is their success?

  26. cwolf Says:

    SUV’s can carry large things and hatchbacks are in reality just large trunks with a window.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 GM barely paid tax anyway. The Trump/Ryan tax cut is mostly adding to the debt.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 A fit or Prius will do what 3/4 of SUVs are actually used for. Yeah, a boxey SUV will carry a big box with the hatch closed, if you don’t care about seeing out. With a Fit or Prius, you’d need to have the hatch open for that box you transport every 20 years. OK, maybe I exaggerate, but not much.

  29. buildmore2doors Says:

    23,28 A true SUV needs decent ground clearance and 4 wheel drive in order to go off road should the need arise, the vehicles you mention couldn’t make it past the first pothole or rock outcropping, they might be OK for hauling something but I would never attempt to take them off pavement let alone in a field or trail.

  30. cwolf Says:

    28) and on the flip side….many often buy, carry or haul a number of items and can still see out the back window. These same items would cover the rear window in a hatchback.
    I see your point. People like me who often do larger tasks like the extra space.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 The farthest off-road 95% of SUVs ever go, is parking in someone’s lawn for a party. My Corvette will do that with no problem.

  32. cwolf Says:

    On this side of the Miss., I’ll bet that the only off-roaders are a few hunters, farmers and , maybe, construction workers. What…001%?

  33. cwolf Says:

    I have been seeing more than usual new Honda Ridgelines. I’m a Ford guy, but I really like the way they look. If the OTD price was close to my Ford discount, I would have thoughts about buying one if I needed a truck again.

  34. Anthony Parisio Says:

    Good response on the comments about Tesla. No other news outlet has bother to state the other side of the numbers. Most just spread FUD and not truth. I have more respect for Autoline today. I have been following Autoline since the beginning. Let us remember there is always at least two ways to see any data.

  35. ChuckGrenci Says:

    33, One thing I like about the Ridgeline is that it is about the right size. Smaller than the midsized p/u’s and I’m guessing about the size that some of us ‘vocals’ have been asking for, i.e. the old S-10, old Ranger and some of the other smaller sized p/u’s.

  36. cwolf Says:

    What I liked about the Ridgeline was the open bed; no wheel-wells. Perfect for hauling a riding lawn mower. I hear the tailgate also is able to swing open and rear seats fold down. Guess there is another storage space under the bed. I don’t know how much I would use it; Luggage maybe on trips.
    Although its on a SUV structure, I think it would serve all my purposes, fits in most garages and has easy access. Let’s not forget that it doesn’t have that “tough oversized truckish” look.

  37. cwolf Says:

    I think this is one instance where the manufacturer’s focus was based upon practical consumer use and not about duplicating the competition.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 Yep, it’s designed for how people actually use pickups, but they buy something else. It’s an image thing, I guess.

  39. buildmore2doors Says:

    31 Your Corvette wouldn’t last the second it would take to spin the rear wheels on a damp grass lawn trying to get up a 5% incline. You deride SUVs because you think most people will never use their full capability, and maybe they won’t, much like Corvette owners who never drive their cars over 80 but their cars are probably capable of twice that speed but most never take them to a track to find out. My SUV can go 100 mph, faster than most Corvette owners ever go in their compensating-for-something sports cars.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    39 I readily admit that I don’t use the full capability of my Corvette. It’s fun, though, and gets good highway gas mileage.

    As far as compensating for something, that’s more the case of people buying huge trucks they don’t need. Also, I recently heard that said about those wrist watches with 2 1/2 inch dials.

    As far as SUVs, I’d get tired of seeing any vehicle type that made up 2/3 of what I see on the road. If 2/3 of the vehicles on the road were Ferraris and Porsches, I might find it refreshing to see an SUV.

  41. Kit Gerhart Says:

  42. Larry D. Says:

    23 Written from Shanghai, a mere 10 miles from Gigafactory 3, on Sun morning, after a heavy breakfast at the hotel, where nobody speaks any english, and they use their i-phones as translators (either voice or text). There is a big IT conference in the hotel today, I wonder how they manage. And everybody still in shortsleeves, warm and humid even now.

    From the pix I saw of the Model Y I am not so thrilled. It may still be as wildly successful as the Model 3, but it looks like a Model 3 whose roof is raised a few inches, and thus is not as sleek. But since they pulled it off with the Model X, they may as well with the Y.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    report from the future

    I just finished a long walk here, amazing and largely empty perfect highways, five lanes each way, a bicycle-EV bike lane, and a pedestrian brick lane on each side of the wide island, leading from the hotel to the biggest artificial lake in the world (being almost perfectly circular, I call it lake Euclid).

    Several EV bikes on the road, each of a different type, from the tiniest ones (still not skateboards) with 8 inch wheels and a low seating position to scooter-sized ones (not vespa-like, but like 50 cc scooters)

    A great variety of local and international brands of cars on the road, from a red Buick Envision (also called that here, and with the Buick logo) to a 5 door hatch-wagon Focus with the Aston grille, several Tesla Xs, some other EV cars, an EV Bus with Daweoo on its back.

    Back in Horse and Buggy Flyover land we were supposed to get our first snow.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    After my morning-noon walk, the secretary of my host drove to my hotel to take me out to lunch, she was driving a brand new what she called “escalade” Caddy but it was quite cramped inside and I was sure it was no relation, when she drove me back I noticed in the back it was not even a CT6 but a CT5 “280″ something. It only had 3,000 miles or so on it. I would have guessed they bought an electric instead, given the sky-high ICE license fees for Shanghai alone.

    She drove me to the campus and two of my students showed me around, explaining the characters as we went along. So i got an hours more of exercise after my heavy lunch.

    There were no statues of Mao to be seen, but one of his arch rival, Confucius (whose teachings Mao hated).

    As we walked, we passed an tall monolith standing high like an obelisk with 4-5 giant green characters on it, I asked them what they meant, they said “God rewards those who work hard”. I asked twice to make sure the first word was indeed “God”. Quite a chance 50 years after the Cultural Revolution and its massacres.

  45. ChuckGrenci Says:

    44, Wow, I guess China got the CT5 before the U.S.; the CT5 is using the new nomenclature, i.e. 280, which refers to the torque specification in newton meters (pretty stupid in my opinion). I thought they (Cadillac) was going to round that number to the next “50″ or “00″ but maybe in China it’s different (or maybe a different model from what the U.S. is about to get). Interesting trip report; thanks for sharing.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42 et. al.
    Interesting. I stayed in the Shanghai Olympic Hotel when there in 1994. I found it on google maps, and it is about 45 miles northwest of the Tesla factory. A lot of people there spoke English, but I suspect that hotel catered to tourists, and people with international sports event held nearby.

    I wonder if those highways were mostly empty because it is a weekend, or maybe because of the the location, farther from the central business area than where I was. Of course, the roads would be much better than when I was there, and the metro would now move a lot of people who had to go by road, or walk when I was there.

    45 It’s possible that the car they call CT5 in China is completely different from the one that will be sold here. GM, and other companies do that. I’ll drive by the local Cadillac dealer this morning, and see if they have any CT5s yet.

  47. ChuckGrenci Says:

    CT5 won’t be available till late ’19 and maybe later due to the strike. CT4 slated for early ’20.

  48. cwolf Says:

    A big IT conference in Shanghai! Sounds like a smarter way for China to get intellectual property without having to steal it.

    As nations take part in this “global governance system”( through trade, problem solving, environmental issues, etc. )which the majority of these nations follow democratic principles, just remember that China goal is to replace them to become more authoritarian in nature.

    As long as industry makes $$ from China, I don’t think anyone cares that they might also be selling our children’s freedom, democracy, and human rights.

    Something to think about–eh?

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    47 There’s no “build and price” up yet for the CT5, except the base price for trim levels. Does that mean it will be later than the C8, which had ordering information on the Chevy web site?

  50. ChuckGrenci Says:

    49, Good question; with the strike, scheduling has been affected. The CT5 is also scheduled to offer the “V” model very earlier in production so it should be interesting.

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Will the V use the nee “hot V” V8?

  52. cwolf Says:

    The CT5 is a real looker! Based on the Alpha platform, I think it’s even longer than the CTS. I do like the rear wheel drive, yet to get the “6″ you have to jump up a notch above standard. That means the price increases from around $38K to $41K plus the cost of the TT 6.
    That gets pricey real fast!
    I wonder how long the CT4 will be.

  53. ChuckGrenci Says:

    51, I think the “V” will in its first interation be offered with a twin turbo 3.0 liter but I could be wrong. Rumors of the 6.2 and also the Blackwing. Early ’20 on the V”.

  54. Larry D. Says:

    44 meant “quite a change”, not “quite a chance”

    46 I’m pretty sure it was an actual CT5. They also did not label the Focus with the Fusion grille a Fusion, but still Focus. The Envision was also the same size as the US version, and there was a buick Velite that looked Cruze-sized.

    GM and others always sold a lot of Buicks etc in China, but their PROFITS from there were never as good as their profits in the US. Same with Europe, where in fact Opel lost twenty Billion for GM before they wised up and killed it.

    Also, with the other automakers, China always demanded a 50-50 partnership where they got whatever tech they had which was useful. Only with Tesla I know they did not demand this 50-50, but as John said, the bigwigs in Beijing have a very high respect for Elon Musk, (and rightly so!) and I believe they also made him a Chinese Citizen.

  55. Larry D. Says:

    While my hotel room is very comfortable and luxurious, the internet connection is not perfect. For some reason I cannot get my work email, while I got it yesterday morning. China also blocks FB and even Youtube.

    So I will get it from the office in a few hours. ANd soon I will move from the hotel to the excellent 11th floor apartment I also had in 2016.

    The main highways in this area (which is nowhere near downtown Shanghai but at the south end of its huge metro) were almost empty in 2016 too, but there is a fair traffic in the side roads which also have all kinds of stores. The U, which was founded in 1909, moved here from its central Shanghai old campus in 2008 or so. Very smart move, they sold the land for a ton of $ and the govt gave them this land for free.

  56. Larry D. Says:

    Finally, I’m sure this will make Tesla Hater’s day, but is really worth mentioning, and central to this show.

    In the plane, I saw a couple new “Top Gear” videos, with the non-charismatic cast of these three new punks that replaced the excellent but Politically Incorrect Clarkson, May and co.

    Clarkson had a test of some Tesla earlier, he rigged it so it will go out of juice, and made a lot of theater about it. Musk was outraged and livid, as one would expect, and complained of unfairness.

    These three new punks got a Model 3, don’t know which variety, and pit it against not any slow-a$$ 3 series or C class or Alfa, BUT the M3, the C63, and the Alfa Quadrifoglio, all with around 500 HP each and serious performance, not your daughter’s 330i with a turbo 4, or what passes for a 3 series these days.

    It was truly STUNNING to watch the drag race. The 3 dirty ICEs looked like they were NAILED to the street, they did not move at all, while the Model 3 was several car lengths (or hundred feet) in front of them.

    Because the Top gear Clowns knew the Model 3 would ANNIHILATE its rivals in the 1/4 mile, they changed the rules and had the cars compete in an unheard of HALF Mile, where the Tesla was in front all the way until at the very end one of its rivals passed it.

    Laughable again not? it is not easy for horses and buggies, even M3 and C63 buggies, to compete with the advantages of BEV cars. No matter how hard the usual suspects try to rig the race.

  57. Kit Gerhart Says:

    56 That sounds like the link I posted a couple days ago. The Model 3 Performance beat one of the others in the 1/2 mile drag race, and beat what they considered the best of the ICE cars, the Alfa, in a slalom.

  58. Larry D. Says:

    57 Thanks for reposting. Just finished my first 3 lectures, the weather in my office with the window open is now cool (it’s almost noon here) but in class the A/C was turned off and only the third hour they opened the windows which made it much better.

    I had trouble accessing youtube here to find that video. Facebook and Googlemaps are also blocked. In the lectures I used a Chinese variety (or bad copy) of Googlemaps to show them several locations around the world, but it was all in Chinese until you focused on s small area and then they also had english names.

    The area near the hotel with the 12-lane highway is a new business park (I think called LiHang new area) and I was told many top companies from the US and EUrope will have branches there, esp logistics, DHL, Fedex etc.

  59. Larry D. Says:

    Harris claimed the Model 3 was an “AK-47 disguised as a butter knife”

    yes, that was the video allright.

    I assume if they used the top versions of the Model S instead, it would have beaten them even in the half mile.

  60. Lambo2015 Says:

    48. Well said! It still amazes me that so many companies are so short sighted in partnering or even dealing with China. We continue to sell our souls for the $$$ today that will be later be our demise. Not very long ago China couldn’t produce a decent car and required all manufacturers that wanted to build and sell in China to partner with a Chinese company. Very clever as they learned the ways and processes that were developed over 100 years. Now they can build their own and even copy designs and what is actually done about stealing intellectual property? Nothing because there is too much money involved to make too many waves.

    Also as you mentioned the labor rates of GM are far below the percentage of the cost of a car from 30 years ago. Someday people will wake up and realize that if you really want to compete globally and have free trade then you can expect to create a global economy and Americans will get paid the average rate for your labor world wide not just within the US.

    We are moving in that direction with businesses like Amazon. You can shop for an item that might be twice as much at your local retail store. But that store supports your local economy with providing jobs and taxes paid locally to now an online purchase that sends profits elsewhere and in many cases doesn’t even offer tax revenue to the state sales tax base.

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    60 It’s past time that all states get organized in whatever way it takes to collect sales tax on purchases from Amazon, etc. On-line purchases are already 10% of retail sales, and increasing steadily.

  62. Lambo2015 Says:

    61 Absolutely. All online retailers should be required to collect the sales tax for the state in which the item is mailed to. Its silly that the government expects people to keep track of all the items purchased online and claim it on their taxes. Not that I’m in favor of paying more taxes, but if they are too lazy to figure out a way to collect it, don’t expect me to keep track for you.
    Either that or have the retailer pay all the sales tax from the state in which the distribution center is located. As for now I like the perk of no sales tax especially if its a pretty expensive item.

  63. Bishop Says:

    IIRC, 45 states plus DC have state-wide sales tax. 38 states have local sales tax on top of state sales taxes. The rates are all over the place (tax rates vary within the state). So are the items that are taxable and exempt – differs depending on the state.

    You’re talking some sophisticated software that no one (to my knowledge) has developed so far, as it would have so many variables. And try to get the tax revenue departments to provide ALL of the variables – make it their responsibility to update all point of sale software manufacturers whenever there is any change in what is taxable and at what rate – and based on the 5 plus 4 zip code – and see how far you get.

    Besides, many states have laws like Florida, that puts the onus on the taxpayer:

    **If you buy a taxable item outside Florida and bring it into (or have it delivered into) Florida, and you did not pay sales tax on the item, YOU owe use tax.

    For instance if you buy a top of line UHDTV from a dealer outside Florida and have it delivered to your home in Florida – YOU legally owe the sales tax on it (payable directly to the Department of Revenue).

    I assume everyone has checked what their state laws are regarding sales tax and that they fully comply with them . . . right?

  64. Kit Gerhart Says:

    People in Florida are less likely to pay sales tax on delivered items than in most other states, because no one knows how to pay the tax, even if they want to. Florida has no income tax, so you aren’t filling out a form, where you can list sales tax owed, as in most states.

  65. Lambo2015 Says:

    63 Again, If they cannot figure out how to collect it at purchase don’t put the burden on the people to pay it. I don’t think it would require a very sophisticated software package. I could write something in Excel that would add the tax based on area code and add it to the purchase price. I’m no expert in Excel either.

    The longer it takes them to figure it out the better for the buyers and loss goes to the state and local governments.

  66. Kit Gerhart Says:

    65 Florida has county and local options of up to 1.5% on sales tax. In a number of cases, zip codes cross county lines, so actual address would need to be known to charge the local and county option tax. It should be pretty simple to collect the basic state tax of 6%, though.