AD #2742 – ROXOR Assembly Process; EV Batteries Could Create Tons of Waste; Hyundai’s New Engine Technology

December 20th, 2019 at 11:56am

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Listen to “AD #2742 – ROXOR Assembly Process; EV Batteries Could Create Tons of Waste; Hyundai’s New Engine Technology” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 12:52

0:07 EV Batteries Could Create Tons of Waste
0:46 Lincoln Aviator’s Heated Wiper Blades
1:39 Hyundai’s New Engine Technology
2:35 Toyota Makes Patents Available to Anyone
4:00 Tesla Model 3 Power Upgrade
5:00 BMW i3 Urban Suite
5:41 Are eScooters Helping to Reduce Congestion?
7:32 Honda Introduces New Electric Scooter
8:04 Honda Hits Motorcycle Milestone
8:31 Sneak Peek into The ROXOR Assembly Process

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155 Comments to “AD #2742 – ROXOR Assembly Process; EV Batteries Could Create Tons of Waste; Hyundai’s New Engine Technology”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I certainly wouldn’t pay $2000 to knock a half second off my car’s 0-60 time, and find it a little annoying that they de-tune the car that way. I understand Tesla’s doing it, though. Are there hackers yet that can un-detune the cars, and set up a business to do it for $50?

  2. Larry D. Says:


    Whenever I buy a car, I know exactly what I am buying, and if I like it and buy it, it is MY decision, nobody puts a gun to my head to make me buy it.

    It is exactly the same thing with any Tesla Model 3, If I buy one (unlikely, as I prefer the model S), I will know exactly what I am buying. AND this is NOT the version with the power upgrade.

    If later Tesla offers me a substantial performance upgrade for a MEASLY $2K, I probably will be very happy to take it.

    And this is the way it is.

    I see no ‘counter argument’ to the above. If people are careless when they shop for a car, and after they buy it they wish it was faster and it had more power, and are under the illusion that on Xmas Day Santa Musk will greatly improve their performance FOR FREE, they are really naive.

  3. Larry D. Says:

    Sean, when I saw the show lasted a long 12 mins today, I thought you’d have a segment from AAH. Instead, you flattered the crooks at Mahindra with a lengthy segment from their so-called assembly line where they make that utter POS the cheap Jeep Knockoff or whatever. You may have guessed that after the first 8 mins or so, I turned it off and did not even bother to read the transcript for that segment.

  4. Barry T Says:

    Thanks Sean, John & crew for a great 2019. Merry Christmas, all!

  5. Maverick Says:

    I don’t see an issue with a premium to “unlock” additional performance. I do have an issue when said performance is not confirmed to be as advertised. For example, see the TFL YouTube where they could not match the Tesla advertised 0-60 performance.

  6. Larry D. Says:


    I did not pay attention to this segment either, but it reminded me an old friend of mine, a retired cardiologist who used to make $1 mill a year at his peak, but had to retire at 55 due to severe hearing loss, and whom and whose son, an Oncologist-Hematologist with a very valuable (almost all from domestics) car collection, I had invited to go visit the Stahl’s automotive collection on Dec 28 (it’s free entrance but it opens only once a month or so, 11-4 PM), 90 miles from here.

    So this guy who used to make $1 mill a year and used to drive 7 series and other 6-figure flagships, told me he had an accident with his and suffered some injuries. When I asked him, he replied “Ι have some muscle spasm in the back partially improvement with antinflamatories. The 2019 Lincoln” (misspellings not corrected).

    I wonder what model this is, and what happened to the occupants of the other car (or was there no other car, but he hit some obstacle).

  7. Larry D. Says:

    5 he retired at 65, not 55. He is currently 78 I believe.

  8. Bob Wilson Says:

    The ultimate battery recycling is to dump them down a hole and when it is full, call it a ‘battery mine.’ A used battery has the same elements as when it was made. Just separate them; refine them, and; voila, new battery chemicals from old.

    Doing that with fossil fuels is a lot harder.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 Deferred recycling? That makes sense, as long as toxic materials don’t leach out into the sides of the “hole.” It would keep the batteries in one place, ready to “mine” when better recycling techniques are developed.

  10. Jon M. Says:

    “…a group of scientists are warning that EV batteries could become a major contributor of e-waste unless they can be fully recycled.” Shocked look everyone! That is not new information, but you still won’t hear all the world-is-going-to-end-in-12-years-or-less activists speak, much less admit that. Not even those who have been preaching that since the ’60s. Shhh, don’t tell them we’re all STILL here.

  11. Lambo2015 Says:

    3 Have you not noticed yet that no one cares if you watch the whole show or not? Or if you think Mahindra is a POS or not.
    You obviously live in the past and hold past failures of companies affect your decisions even today. No doubt that the big three made junk cars back in the 80s and even into the 90s but today they all make very good reliable vehicles now. If Mahindra failed 20 years ago maybe they learned something from that and are better prepared this time around. You have the choice to avoid buying any of their products but it doesn’t mean AD shouldn’t report on where they are today. What you do isn’t really that important.

  12. GM Veteran Says:

    Feedback from actual Roxor owners is very positive. They are enthusiastic about its capabilities and like that its somewhat different from the side by sides that are sold by companies like Polaris, Honda, etc.

    Seems like Mahindra could just change the shape of the body panels to address the trade dress issue and continue selling this vehicle. It is a hit in the marketplace, selling at 2-3 times the volume they initially estimated.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all AD and AAH viewers and staff!

  13. Roger Blose Says:

    Has anyone been able to explain the Tesla battery fires that we saw on the news? One was on a parked Tesla in L.A. and the other was in a Hong Kong garage. Those lithium Ion batteries must have a stability issue. I would not want to charge one inside my garage until they can explain the flames. Also heard that there is a solid state lithium Ion battery coming to market that has little chance of bursting into flames. The next decade should be fun! Thanks to the Autoline team for another excellent year of content and topics. You guys make our days!

  14. Lambo2015 Says:

    1 Kit I was thinking the same thing as a real good hacker would certainly be able to see what is being changed in the programming and make those same changes on other peoples vehicles. My question would be if Tesla has the ability to make over-the-air updates can they see if the programming has been modified by anyone other than them and should they be able to change it back if they didn’t get their $2K?
    I would say no but I’m sure they would void your warranty.

  15. Richard Piper Says:

    A big thanks to John, Sean and all at Autoline for another year of giving us the first news of everything happening in the Auto industry. An unmistakable 10 minutes every day.

    Have a great Christmas and New Year break and all the best for 2020

  16. Albemarle Says:

    Hyundai has developed the best of both worlds; under light load the extended intake valve duration has the engine running on the Atkinson cycle, then when power is needed, the intake valve closes at a normal time and the engine operates on the Otto cycle. Brilliant, without the need for extra electric motors to handle the sluggish performance of the Atkinson cycle.

    It would be great to get an engineer from Hyundai on After Hours to talk about this. How quickly it can change between cycles would be interesting to know.

  17. Doug Watson Says:

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! I enjoy shows that cover new features and materials. Batteries are a subject I would like to get to know more about – especially new materials that reduce charging time. I love the show.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It will be interesting to see if the new Hyundai engines actual buy you anything, like better performance or fuel economy. The ungodly complex variable displacement Nissan engine doesn’t provide any benefit, at least in the Infiniti crossover that first used it.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 The Nissan engine’s primary claim to fame is being variable compression, though the displacement varies too. I’m looking for actual reports on how it does in the Altima, compared to direct competition.

  20. XA351GT Says:

    EV batteries waste issues. I really hope this came as no surprise to anyone. The saying there are no free lunches comes to mind.

  21. cwolf Says:

    Dear Autoline Santa’s,
    For Christmas, please add more Mahindra and Lincoln segments. I’m sure many would rather learn more about them than having to learn every wealthy friend and their luxury cars one commenter has, including his ultra-ego.
    I know…., some gifts are just too much even for Santa.

  22. merv Says:

    Another great year of Autoline. Thanks a bunch. Happy Holidays-see you next year.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The solution to EV battery recycling would be to switch to lead-acid batteries. The technology for recycling them is mature, and efficient. Unfortunately, lead-acid batteries have only about 1/4 the energy density of lithium ion, and they don’t last as many charge-discharge cycle before failure. Oh well.

    Anyway, thanks, Autoline, for another year of information and entertainment. Happy holidays, and all that.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to Sean, John and the whole Autoline team, as well as the regular folks here that provide some great feedback and share their knowledge. Look forward to the time off but will miss the daily auto news. See ya next year.

  25. Drew Says:

    @21 – Oh oh. Now you put a target on your back.

    Merry Christmas to ALD, AAH, and all open-minded posters here. Sean and John Claus, my Christmas list can be satisfied with your choice of a new Aviator, Corsair, CT6, C8, GT500, Longhorn, or TourX.

  26. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Happy Holidays and especially wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I look forward to listening, learning and contributing for the rest of the year and continuing forward.

  27. cwolf Says:

    Merry Christmas to ALL, including Larry.
    May God Bless and good health.
    Drive safe out there; Don’t drink and drive….have a DD.

  28. Don Wagner Says: Not 90 miles from me. In Chesterfield. Open 1 to 4 every Tuesday and I think first Saturday of the month. Maybe thinking of Gilmore in Hickory Corners. Interesting that the quickest way to either is on I 94.

    Good show today Sean as always. I can watch on desktop, iPhone or iPad. Great world of electronics today. Taking the car company two week break? Will miss your reports. I do watch the entire show!!!!

  29. Don Wagner Says:

    I liked the Roxor segment. Showed how, for even such a low volume vehicle, the factory is really pretty complex. If you can, visit an assembly plant of the majors and get amazed. That is where the MAGIC happens, but from the efforts of thousands of designers, testers (was my career) and many other disciplines in the supplier companies.

  30. Don Wagner Says:

    Oh, and I like to watch the whole Daily show, but don’t always read all of the comments unless I really want a good laugh. Oh, has anyone figured out, or care what he said in #6?

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 It’s low volume, and a very simple vehicle, but was interesting The last assembly plant I visited was the Corvette plant in 1997. Unfortunately, it was a weekend, and the line wasn’t running.

  32. John L Says:

    I don’t think I’d want to pay to replace the Lincoln wiper blades, with built in fluid carrier and heating element. UV light will cause them to break down with time like all other wiper blades. Mercedes has the fluid carrier system in some of their new models, notable the Sprinter van. Subaru and others have addressed the heating issue for years with an electric element where the wipers park.

  33. Don Wagner Says:

    Update on the Stahl’s hours. Special day Saturday, December 28, 1 to 4.

  34. Don Wagner Says:

    From the website which is pretty entertaining in itself.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 I’ll check the web site.

  36. Don Wagner Says:

    Just got some sad news alert that older NASCAR fans like myself might be a little sad about. Robert Glenn (Junior) Johnson Jr. died today. He was 88. Won 50 races himself and his teams won 6 championships. Too many drove for Junior to name, just look him up on Wikipedia, but Darrell Waltrip, Cale Yarborough, Bobby Allison and Bill Elliot are but a few. Drivers won 139 races and that’s third to Petty and Hendrick.

  37. Barry Rector Says:

    Autoline Family,

    Thanks so much for all your work to provide such wonderful programming of the auto industry! You all deserve the time off for the holidays but I sure will miss you till you’re back.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    A real review after one full year of ownership, the good AND the bad.

    PS Sean, John, congrats again for a great year, especially the discussions with your colleagues (not the guests peddling stuff) on AAH.

  39. Larry D. Says:

    38 Oh and PS Happy Festivus for the Restovus

    (amazing how many tried (and failed) to guess who I am and nobody came up with the obvious, LARRY DAVID the Great)

  40. Larry D. Says:

    33 That’s no update, I was counting on that for weeks, just have not heard back from my two friends if they can make it both on the 28th.

  41. ChuckGrenci Says:

    38, I enjoyed the review, which seemed comprehensive and fair. I’m still not a buyer, or even considering a Tesla, but I can see why some people do. I then watched the linked YouTube on the Cybertruck; there I was less convinced (though he did speculate on missing items and his own concerns, including that he was still not a ‘player’ for that one) but did review what he could and what he could speculate on.

  42. cwolf Says:

    (amazing how many tried (and failed) to guess who I am and nobody came up with the obvious, LARRY DAVID the Great Pain In the A$$)

    Larry, I couldn’t have said it better, my man!

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    38,41 Good review, but it didn’t go into the function of the touch screen much, other than the navigation, so I found some other videos, which confirmed something I would never like. You need to use the touch screen, which sometimes locks up, to turn on the wipers. You can get one wipe by pushing the end of the turn signal stalk, but to turn the wipers on beyond that, you use the touch screen. Additionally, one video I saw indicated that the “auto” mode for the wipers worked very poorly, so leaving the wipers “on” in auto mode would not be a good option.

    They really need to add a stalk for the wipers. That is a real safety issue. Beyond that, I’d probably be ok with the touch screen and, presumably, the updates mostly make it better, rather than worse.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Off topic, but I found that to be eligible for Car and Driver’s “10 Best,” a vehicle needs to be a new model or redesign, OR a winner from the previous year. Some on the list, like Telluride and Supra were new, but others, like Boxter/Cayman and Accord were eligible, only because they made the list last year. With the Porsches, they would have been on the list continuously since the 2016 redesign, to be considered for 2020.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    43 This is academic since there is a much higher chance I’d get an S than a 3, but it is not necessarily bad to have the controls on the screen. In my Merc, while the gauges and buttons are excellent overall, the wiper stalk can be confused with the slightly smaller cruise control one, especially if one is not very familiar with the car.

    At 11 AM today I had to drop by the office to leave some supplies and the 10-car parking lot, half empty, had a white Model 3 with Ohio plate. The synthetic leather looked very substantial and the landscape screen huge (width). Probably the owner is a colleague who had to go to Cleveland to buy it, like that guest on AAH the other time.

  46. Larry D. Says:

    45 Actually 15-place lot, that’s the expensive $1,000 a year one which all can use on the weekend for free. The one I park is just in the back of the same building and must have 100s of spots, and we still pay a ridiculously low $86 or so a YEAR.

  47. cwolf Says:

    One of you guys may know more about this and can educate me:
    Does Tesla or others utilize a capacitor for regenerative braking? I read an article where a supercapacitor was used in conjunction with a battery pack on a motor bike. It sounded like a good idea. Not only could a super-capacitor add a sudden burst of power during acceleration, it could also keep the batteries topped off; esp. in city driving.
    Even though a SC lacks the energy density of a battery, it may allow batteries to be made smaller or less in number. The frunk would be a good place for one.

  48. cwolf Says:

    Larry, I hope you know I was just yanking your chain, again! I kinda like it.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    47 So far, they just put the regen juice back in the battery.

  50. ChuckGrenci Says:

    47,49 Unless you charge at home and live on the top of a very long hill, you probably just want to put all your re-gen back into the battery for the most efficient use of the energy. You’ll never be wasting re-gen energy because the battery is full (unless using my opening scenario). And even if Tesla had a capacitor discharge circuit, unless they could use that burst of energy by routing it through their motors, it would still just be stored energy unless they somehow allowed a super-burst to power the motor.

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    50 I’ve read that some of the few fuel cell cars use supercaps to store energy, to supply higher current for acceleration, than what the fuel cell can provide.

    I suspect the batteries of most, or all current BEVs can provide enough current to run the motors at full power, or enough to spin wheels at low speed, without need to have an extra energy source for acceleration, like fuel cells need.

    With a Tesla, if you live on top of a long hill, you’d want to charge to only about 80%, so you could collect energy from going downhill, without running out of “headroom.”

  52. Larry D. Says:

    The white model 3 in my parking lot (again this morning) had a “dual motor” badge in the trunk, so it has a minimum of 477 and possibly 580 HP. Not too shabby for the price of a stupid Jeep! And Ferrari-like performance from a 4,000 lb+ sedan. (I still prefer the Model S, and used prices, I checked this morning, are still not soft, nothing below $27k and these are 2013s with 100,000+ Miles

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    C-Class and 3 series are the cars most frequently sold after less than a year. Is there any way to find out what they are replaced with?

  54. Larry D. Says:

    53 where did you see this stat, and what percentage of 3 series or c class sold new are sold again after less than a year? Must be an extremely small %. Most new cars are sold after 3 years, esp if leased, or later.

  55. Larry D. Says:

    54 con’d I suspect the stat would be for USED 3 series or C class, which are bought several years old, well depreciated, the driver does a ton of miles, and then sells them with a minimal loss of their value.

  56. Kit Gerhart Says:

    54 This is one of several sites that say the same thing, at last at the top of the list. It’s for cars bought or leased new. I think the percentage for C-Class was more than 12.

  57. Larry D. Says:

    a long time from their production and sale, Mach E deals already?

  58. Larry D. Says:

    56 Unless they drove them a ton of miles, those significant 12% of foolish buyers must have got hit real hard with the huge 1st year depreciation. If they are new cars, their prices are close to the Model 3 and the larger Lexus ES. Or maybe they found the C too cramped and upgraded to an E.

  59. Kit Gerhart Says:

    58 It would be interesting to know if they went to an E or 5, or if they discovered that the cars weren’t that much better than an Accord or Camry, and took their horrendous first year depreciation and got out.

  60. Larry D. Says:

    59 I really doubt they would go to an Accord/Camry or equivalent unless they had severe financial hardship, layoff etc. Also, some of these cars were 1 and 2 year leases, says the article, in which case the hit would be less severe. In addition, many luxury makers have very attractive leases that make much more financial sense than buying, to attract buyers who may not afford to buy new.

    For the 3 series I am almost sure it got its lunch eaten by the Model 3. For C class, I’m not as sure.

  61. Larry D. Says:

    From my Wikipedia link posted earlier. It sure does not seem to have run out of steam, either in production or deliveries, and this is before any Model 3s were produced in China, and years before they can be made in Germany:

    Quarter Model 3 vehicles produced
    2017 Q3[20]
    260(222 delivered)
    2017 Q4[21]
    2,425(1,542 delivered)
    2018 Q1[121]
    9,766(8,182 delivered)
    2018 Q2[122][123]
    28,578(18,449 delivered)
    2018 Q3[124][125]
    53,239(56,065 delivered)
    2018 Q4[126][22]
    61,394(63,359 delivered)
    2019 Q1[23][127]
    62,975(50,928 delivered)
    2019 Q2[24][128]
    72,548(77,634 delivered)
    2019 Q3[25][129]
    79,837(79,703 delivered)

  62. Kit Gerhart Says:

    60 Yeah, lease bailouts, and dealer loaner cars would account for some of it, as the article indicated. I’d think people would quickly find that, for normal driving, a C or 3 would not be that much “nicer” than a well equipped Accord or Camry, but I wouldn’t expect these people to “get out” after less than a year. I’d think few people would “discover” the Tesla 3 less than a year after buying/leasing a 3 Series, but some would.

  63. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Maybe people are trading the BMW 3s for X1s and X3s, but they don’t keep those very long either.

  64. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I found this on YouTube: “Sandy Munro: Tesla Cybertruck SpaceX tech, bullet proof windows, crash safety, and battery magic”

    It’s over 40 minutes long and pretty interesting.

  65. Larry D. Says:

    61 Accord drivers have also switched to Model 3, along with the 3 series and the Prius they are the three biggest conquest markets for the Model 3.

    In my case, I would not sell a 1 year old car unless I was relocated overseas, but before I bought the E class I might consider the Chrysler 300 which is also RWD, has some common genes with the E and a longer WB (always good, and looks better when longer), and can be had for less than half the price of the E (there are big discounts on the 300), but since it did not come in a diesel I never bothered to check it. I bought the E for overseas and ended up with 2 as I have mentioned before.

    Here we have the example of Bob Wilson who traded a young prius (forget how old, plug-in?) for a Model 3.

  66. Larry D. Says:

    64 I posted this a few days ago, I was only able to watch the first 5 min of the 40+ mins, then lost interest.

    What are his conclusions?

  67. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Boeing CEO resigns. I guess the recent failure of their space capsule to work properly was one thing too much.

  68. ChuckGrenci Says:

    He thinks the Cybertruck, at least in my interpretation and at least in the beginning, will be a niche vehicle, although he goes on that the OEM’s would be foolish to ignore the man; Musk. Of this I agree. The big boys better take heed and try to trump the upstart who is quickly earning a place in automotive production.

  69. Larry D. Says:

    68 I just was able to watch the whole thing, and it was followed by this one I am watching now:

    Munro says a lot more. He does believe it is a niche vehicle, and this is why he us stunned that there were 200,000 reservations already. He is probably correct it will not be a mass seller like the Model 3, but at less than $40k, or even if it goes to $44k with inflation, many will be able to afford the truck too.

    That was the video where he mentioned the top engineers Musk got from NASA when Obama cut their funding and they were fired. Munro calls them “Genius” engineers.

    The amazing success of the Model 3 has made Tesla a mass producer of cars that are as expensive, or twice as expensive, as a 3 series. Nobody else has achieved this before. THe Model 3 is the sixth best selling car, but those that sell more than it does are half as expensive Civics, Corollas, Accords and Camrys. Not Luxury nor Performance cars.

    They also mentioned (or maybe it was in the other video I post here) how much SAFER the Model 3 is compared to ICE cars, even bigger and heavier ones, because of the huge crumple zone it has up front, no engine like in ICE cars to cut the driver’s legs off!

  70. Larry D. Says:

    67 Not surprised. They really screwed up with the Plane, and the FAA was wrong to let them keep flying until there was a 2nd accident. Their space failure may have been costly but did not have even 1% of the fatalities the plane failure did. Pity, because it is a good company, I had three different projects with them from the late 90s to the early 2000s, including an 8 week fellowship in 2003 where they select 9 colleagues nation-wide every year (each U can nominate only 2) and was impressed with their wide range of products.

  71. Larry D. Says:

    This was the first part of the link I posted above. I am listening to it now

  72. Kit Gerhart Says:

    70 I wonder if they knew going in with the design of the MAX that it would have the aerodynamic issue that resulted in need for the “pitch down” software in the first place.

    The space capsule thing was a big embarrassment for Boeing, but Elon Musk probably liked it. SpaceX and Boeing are more-or-less competing for this business, to take people to and from the space station.

  73. Kit Gerhart Says:

    69 The guy in the video talked about the model 3 being safe in a frontal crash, because there is no engine to be push into the your feet, etc. (though the 4wd ones have an electric motor somewhere up there). If no engine means good safety, cars like Boxster/Cayman and the new Corvette should be good, but cars like that are never crash tested by the NHTSA or insurance institute.

  74. Kit Gerhart Says:

    69 It will be interesting to see how the Cybertruck, and any other BEV pickups do. The pricing for the Cybertruck certainly sounds good, if it ends up being for real. The vehicle would work for a lot of people I know who have pickups, and use them for commuting, shopping, model airplane flying, etc., and have houses with garages where they could charge them at home. It should also work for businesses that could charge them overnight, if they don’t drive too much, and/or tow too much during the day. It would not work for towing big R/Vs on road trips, with the range dropping to 100 miles, and it probably taking an hour to recharge the big battery with a “supercharger.”

  75. Larry D. Says:

    Rivian gets another $1.3 bill from Wall Street.

    Before I saw this, I was thinking that maybe pickup trucks is the obvious segment to electrify, as they have the poorest MPG of any vehicle, and given that many of their owners are not really affluent and to them fuel cost is a significant component of the total.

    Around here most Pickup owners are secretaries (who never need them) and maintenance workers (who do), both at the low end of the salary totem pole.

  76. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Perhaps the Cybertruck (styling) may evolve to mainstream, but to me, its avantgarde look has got to be polarizing to many. Just because a lot of the sci-fi movies have future vehicles looking similar (with a bunch of angles) I still can’t get around to it (as awe inspiring). And the look of the truck is still a little nebulous without rearview mirrors, windshield wipers and other things I can’t think of right now. I also think the 39,995 truck will be rare bird.

  77. Bob Wilson Says:

    Dear SEC,

    The following order executed on 12/23/2019 at 10:52 AM, Eastern time:

    Account: ******
    Transaction type: Sell
    Order type: Limit
    Security: TESLA INC (TSLA)
    Quantity: *** share(s)
    Price:* $420.00


  78. Larry D. Says:

    COntains very interesting numbers about ad spending (GM-3 bill+ a year, Ford- 2.55 bill, Toyota-less than 2 bill, Tesla- about Zero!

  79. Larry D. Says:

    77 why did you hide the quantity? and what ‘funding’ was secured?

  80. Kit Gerhart Says:

    78 If the GM and Ford numbers are US advertising for US sales, thats ~$1000/sale. I knew it was a lot, but that’s even more than I realized.

  81. Larry D. Says:

    80 $1000 is typical for mass produced affordable models, but low-volume luxury cars have far higher than that, $3-5k. By coincidence $3-6k is the incentives they (additionally) put on the hood.

    If I had to guess, the failed Genesis brand with its measly sales, which has had a lot of ads, may amount to well over $5k per every Genesis sold.

  82. Bob Wilson Says:

    “77 why did you hide the quantity? and what ‘funding’ was secured?”

    Whoever bought my shares secured funding.

    As for quantity, it was a small lot, more of a test case than changing my position. If it dips below 400, I may buy them back. Or I might just diversity with some gold stock.

  83. Larry D. Says:

    Α busy news day.

    In addition to the Rivian $1.3 bill investment from Wall Street, an item about Chinese Banks loaning Musk $1.4 bill (I’m sure he will need it to ramp up production in Shanghai).

    Tesla and Rivian will probably be among very few of the dozens of independent BEV makers who will survive the market.

    Also in the news, UAW rank and file are not satisfied with just the change in leadership, they want a convention to address UAW Corruption.

  84. Larry D. Says:

    82 whoever bought your shares has not secured anything, just paid $420*number for a piece of paper whose value can well go to zero, or to $1,000. But above all, he has secured no funding for anything. I thought you meant you sold enough shares to pay off any loan you took to buy the Model 3.

  85. Larry D. Says:

    Natl Geo Mag did a 50 min documentary abt Tesla in 2019

  86. ChuckGrenci Says:

    85, I watched the video. It would probably be good for someone not attuned to the last couple years of Tesla development; meaning, the general population. I would suspect most of us here would have gleaned what was presented just in passing. It was a pretty good recap of events with some developmental issues not exclusive to Tesla as some things presented would be inclusive even to the base auto manufacturers. Good non the less, thanks for the link.

  87. Larry D. Says:

    86 As I started watching it I realized it was a bit stale and out of date and only watched the first few mins. Yes, it was not for the auto literate and up to date.

    There was another video, much crazier, outlining Tesla’s 1st and then 2nd plan for world domination, but I did not post it.

  88. cwolf Says:

    California doesn’t get fooled by EV charger costs:

  89. Larry D. Says:

    88 per minute? What an absurd way to measure energy.

    If I ever bought a BEV I would only use those superchargers on cross-country trips, (IF i ever took such a long trip on a BEV) OR if they are 100% free. My daily miles would be very low so charging overnight at home, even at the slowest possible pace, would leave me with practically full batteries every morning.

  90. Kit Gerhart Says:

    88,89 More evidence, that if you can’t charge at home, or in some cases, at work, BEVs just don’t make much sense. California is doing the right thing, but that will never happen in Florida in my lifetime.

    So far, charging stations are few in my area, except a few Tesla destination chargers, most at hotels, for hotel guests. The exception is Tesla destination chargers, where you have to pay a $15-20 parking fee at a tourist trap to access them.

  91. Ukendoit Says:

    As I go into the archives to view past shows, I hope you all had a great Christmas and have a good start to 2020.

  92. Larry D. Says:

    I am now watching the latest ATW. Usually I don’t watch that show as I am not interested in its topics, but this one is a review of the year with many interesting discussions.

  93. ChuckGrenci Says:

    And I just finished watching AAH with Henry Payne and the gang including Lindsey Brooke. It was a review of Tesla ownership of over a year of Model 3, then traded for a Model 3 Performance edition (with eval). Even though Henry used his Tesla as a track car (in addition to its more pedestrian duties), his review and insight seemed more than fair and a lot more comprehensive than most of the fan-boy reviews seen on the YouTube, etc. Don’t get me wrong, Henry truly embraces the Model 3 and what it can do and what, in his opinion, still lacks. It’s an hour, so beware, but I give it two thumbs up.

  94. Kit Gerhart Says:

    93 I just watched AAH, and it was interesting. I wish I’d seen it live, so I could maybe get a question asked, like how much range does the Model 3 Performance have when driving maximum speed on a race track?

    With one thing he said, Henry Payne sounded kind of stupid, saying the accessories wouldn’t shorten range any because they are run from the 12 volt battery. Where, exactly, does he think the power comes from to keep the 12 volt battery charged? Of course, it comes from the big battery, as happens even with hybrids with 12 volt batteries. Yeah, wipers and fan motors, etc. wouldn’t use a lot of power, but the power they do use comes from the big battery.

    That 40% loss of range in the rain sounded huge. I wonder if it’s possible that the heater elements and A/C could be going at the same time to keep the windows defrosted. I don’t see a big drop in mpg in rain, even with Priuses and Camry hybrids that probably be affected more than less efficient cars.

  95. ChuckGrenci Says:

    94, The track question would have been a good one; not a disqualifier, but just for knowing some numbers. And the 40% reduction in range from rain was a little hard to believe; I would like that corroborated. I don’t ever remember even getting a 15% reduction using an ICE vehicle ( as was said and used for comparison).

  96. Stephen Says:

    While Hyundai’s engine compression tech sounds good, the resulting fuel efficiency is still alot less than just adding in mild-hybrid/PHEV or adding an EV to your fleet (or even a diesel!). Most new engine tech seems to add about 2-5% BOOST in fuel efficiency but while this might have been impressive in 2009, climate change means big improvements are needed unless you’re burning barrels of oil per mile. Lightweighting and adding in battery power is the better investment for car makers. As to why even bother? Government car tests are getting alot stricter and real-world so the fake results of the past won’t work and so ICE makers keep trying to add an extra few mpg that will work outside the test centre.

  97. Kit Gerhart Says:

    96 In the original application, the Nissan/Infiniti variable displacement engine appears to accomplish nothing. In the lighter Altima, that may be different, or not. The same may be the case with this Hyundai engine. From my experience, Toyota, and other serious hybrids are great. They almost double the mpg in stop/go and low speed driving, and improve it 10% or more in highway driving. They do that with a small, 1.5-2 kWh battery, and a couple not too big motor generators.

  98. Kit Gerhart Says:

    A lot of states have punitive fees, and proposed punitive fees for EVs.

    There’s quite a bit to read, but a map showing the current and proposed anti-EV taxes is on the second page.

  99. Larry D. Says:

    94 95 the track question is 100% irrelevant, as there is plenty of range for the track even if it is half or one FOURTH the usual range, since when you drive a vehicle on a track you just do a few laps, 2-5 miles per lap, and then you WAIT until all other drivers do their laps, during which time, IF you really need juice, you can recharge.

  100. Larry D. Says:

    what is this FAIRY TALE of ANY, let alone a… 40% reduction of range in RAIN??? You don’t get even 20% reduction in super cold winter and you will have 40 from the STUPID RAIN? Who can explain the Math or the PHYSICS of this fairy tale for me?

  101. Larry D. Says:

    98 none of these are “punitive” but an attempt to get them to pay for the damage to the roads they cause just like any ICE vehicle of their size and performance. I am not in favor of any such fees since we want to encourage wider EV adoption. What IS punitive is to not allow Tesla to sell or even SERVICE its cars in states like MI.

  102. ChuckGrenci Says:

    98, I don’t believe in punitive fees but do think some equalization of payment for highway maintenance should be levied. Fair is fair, and some sort of incentive should be available towards BEV but certainly no card blanche either.

  103. Kit Gerhart Says:

    101 They are punitive, when they are triple what you would typically pay in gas tax for a non-EV. The fees are, of course, mostly the work of ALEC and the Koch empire. Another article I found explains that.

  104. Kit Gerhart Says:

    100 Did you ever drive through standing water 1/2 inch deep? In addition to losing some steering control from hydroplaning, it feels like you put on the brakes. Of course, wet pavement without standing water would have much less affect. If he actually did lose 40% of range, as I speculated earlier, maybe the heater was on part of the time with the a/c to defrost, while keeping the cabin at the set temperature.

  105. Kit Gerhart Says:

    An article I saw a while back, I think R&T, said they got about 1/6 normal range when running a Model 3 on a track. In that case, 15 laps on a two mile track would use half your range. I don’t know if any tracks have Tesla “superchargers,” but as more people use Teslas as track toys, it would be useful, so you could drive home after your play time.

  106. Larry D. Says:

    Ι have been listening to this AAH show dated Dec 26 (is it a new show?) with the guest with the model 3 who had appeared before.

    What surprised me is what they just said, that ALL Ford F 150 owners they asked, were ALL interested in the Cybertruck. I would have guessed NONE.

  107. Larry D. Says:

    105 I don’t know where the nearest track that will let me in is located from my home, and I would be more worried to have enough range to get there than if I will have enough juice to do a couple laps. The big 3 have tracks in the Detroit area but I am not sure if they are open to the public.

    Even at the low end estimate of 1/6th, when you take you typical 300 mile + Tesla to the track, even it is 100 miles from your home, you still have 100 miles left to do, at 1/6th = 16 miles or top speed track range, which even for the biggest tracks, allows you to do two full laps.

  108. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Track days typically are a lot more than a couple of laps, and especially Henry Payne’s scenario would be multiple laps. That’s not really a problem because if you were track-daying your Tesla you’d charge somewhere outside the track (if not available trackside) and charge again before going home (if needed or applicable). The original question propose by Kit was, what affect would those laps do to charge state (but it was asked as an intellectual inquiry, not an absolute make or break to do the ‘day’.

  109. Kit Gerhart Says:

    107 The car company tracks would not be open to the public. I’ve done one “track day,” on a track called Putnam Park in Indiana. The event was run by a BMW club, which rented the track. As I remember, we had about 5 twenty minute track sessions. A Model 3 Performance would not be able to come close to doing all of the sessions without recharging, probably multiple times. That track now has a “club” for people who want to do a lot of track days, and has other events run by Porsche, Corvette, etc. clubs. I looked at their web site, and couldn’t find any mention of chargers, but I’d think people would want to run Teslas there. Maybe they trailer them to the track.

  110. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Here’s an article about driving a Model 3 on a track. Also, some of the comments are informative. One commenter gets 9 mpg on a track with a Mini that gets 35 in normal driving.

  111. Larry D. Says:

    110 Speaking of 35 MPG, Yesterday I was finally able to visit the Stahl collection with my two friends from Northville MI. The trip was 90 miles each way and about 200 miles total, mostly highway. The two passengers (a retired cardiologist and his Oncologist son who is a serious car collector) were even heavier than I am, even though I am taller. The car computer showed 35.2 MPG for the whole trip. They were very impressed with my car, could not believe it is a Diesel, and were stunned to hear I only paid $10.5k for it.

    I wish (and they wished even more) they had not bought a 2019 Lincoln Escape clone, which was recently rear-ended and undergoing more than $10k of repairs in the shop, so I could sell my car to them and get something more fitting with the US scene like an AMG S class or similar.

    The son recently bought a Porsche 911 92 from an estate sale for peanuts, given the car has only 18k miles. Air-cooled with the classic headlights, in dark grey (not my fav color), but it looked good.

    The Collection was very impressive, tons of perfectly restored, gorgeous 1900s -1950s cars. Not as big a collection as the Nethercutt in CA or the Petersen Museum in LA, but in pefrect shape, and with dozens of volunteers and only 3 full time staff. The vcolunteers were very knowledgeable and could answer our very detailed questions very satisfactorily.

  112. Kit Gerhart Says:

    111 That sounds like a great museum. That 911 isn’t my favorite color either, but would be cool car.

    Except for hybrids, diesels are still the best thing going for fuel efficiency, in cars that you just pump liquid into a tank and drive. Consumer Reports got the same 35 mpg in their highway test of your car, that you got for your trip. They got 24 city. A similar size, but front drive Avalon hybrid got 52 highway, and 32 city. The fancier Lexus ES weighs only ~100 pounds more than the Avalon, so should get about the same mileage.

  113. Larry D. Says:

  114. Larry D. Says:

    112 My trip was maybe 70% highway and 30% suburban – urban driving, with multiple stops ( the retired guy wanted to take us to lunch at the end (3:30 PM). And both my guests were rather hefty, so it is like I had 4 people in the car total. They really liked the ride.

    The collection had a ton of player piano type organs I have seen elsewhere but they used them several times and they showed the interiors (contained several actual violins). They also started their “rhino” car, with a 1,000 CI engine, with a fire extinguisher at the side.

    They had a replica of Benz’s first ‘car’ ever, a bench on wheels with 0.9 HP, and a Cobra w 600+_ HP and an aluminum body made by a place in Poland that used to make fighter jets.

    The son collects everything, incl original hood ornaments, old gas pumps, and various posters.

  115. Larry D. Says:

    Vehicles failing to adhere to the French rules will be subject to a 20,000 euros ($22,240) tax in 2020, nearly twice the current fine

  116. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The big wheel craze is invading Formula 1. They are going from 13 to 18 inch wheels for 2021. That seems like a big change to make, all at once.

  117. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Ghosn flees to Lebanon.

  118. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Good for Carlos; seems to me that he was being railroaded by the Japanese government. Their due process also appears a lot different from a lot of other developed countries.

  119. Larry D. Says:

    117 I remember me saying here that Ghosn was born in Brazil of Lebanese parents, and John Mc telling us that Ghosn considered himself French. Probably Louis XIV, as he got married (the trophy wife, not the first one) in Versailles, and was stupid enough to even post the video and charge the expenses to Nissan. Then we wonder why the Japanese were after him that bad.

  120. Larry D. Says:

    117 related.

  121. Larry D. Says:

    “Former Nissan and Renault chief Carlos Ghosn confirms he has fled from house arrest in Japan and is now in Lebanon”

    Really? Maybe it is not so difficult to flee house arrest in Japan. I would be curious to see the details on how he managed it.

  122. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 Maybe he took a small private plane from Japan, to somewhere they don’t check documents much, and then flew to Lebanon from there.

  123. ChuckGrenci Says:

    One of the go to articles from the link in post 120 mentioned that Carlos would be forthcoming in explanation of his escape and his take on the accusations against him in the coming days. When Autoline comes back from hiatus I’m sure John will have a lot to talk about.

  124. Larry D. Says:

    Ghosn is a despicable crook and a dishonest criminal. I could care less about his lies.

    His lawyers in Japan ( who are far more honorable than the Shysters you got here) lost face big way when they PROMISED the Japanese Govt he would not escape house arrest and he did.

    Of course the Japanese are fools to not keep a closer eye on the crook.

    They were also fools to set his bail to a mere $15 mill when the arrogant, delusional crook is a half billionaire. It should have been $150 mill instead, or more.

    Now he is in… Lebanon, and we know how honest its justice system is, compared to Japans. LOL!!!! A few mill in bribes and they will aquit him there, in a FARCE trial.

  125. Larry D. Says:

    Is Tesla solely to blame for the decline and fall of Western Civilization? And why the Mach E is DOA, will not have a chance against the Model Y.

    Oh, and another little thing, the dishonest NY Times (but I am repeating myself) had a little test of a failed Bolt trying to go from LA to LV and it took them hours and hours. WHY didn’t they try a far superior Tesla instead? Better still, why didn’t they try BOTH and have a very interesting comparison?

    ALL of this is in the short video, so enjoy, happy new Year to all (except Ghosn, of course)

  126. Kit Gerhart Says:

    124 Yep, he’s a despicable crook like a certain D.J.T.

  127. Kit Gerhart Says:

    125 The NYT tested the Bolt for the LA to LV trip, to demonstrate that without Tesla “superchargers,” EVs don’t work for road trips.

  128. Kit Gerhart Says:

    125 The video said, twice, that Elon has offered the Tesla charging system for other cars to use, but no one has taken them up on it. Is that true?

  129. Larry D. Says:

    126 Really? Name DJT’s crimes. You meant Joe and Hunter Biden instead? THose who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Maybe one day Joe will tell us how he got Hunter that sweet job that paid him $50,000 a MONTH for doing what? Access to his dad?

    Who is the despicable criminal here?

  130. Kit Gerhart Says:

    129 Scam “university,” handing classified information to adversaries, (I would have gone to prison for that), various incidents of sexual harassment, knowingly hiring undocumented workers, even as he brags about deporting others, and, or course, much more that you can easily find.

  131. Larry D. Says:

    128 Yes, I believe this is true, as of some time ago. Not sure if the offer still stands today, or if it has any meaning, with other makers spending billions to develop their own network.

    Musk also told car guru (not!) Leslie Stahl in a CBS 60″ interview, that if somebody else makes a better (overall) BEV than Tesla, he would be happy if one did.

    In that video, the speaker said that he visits his grandparents who live 400 miles away, and he only spends 20 mins recharging each way.

    So most Tesla models would do the LA-LV trip without any recharging, and probably would be able to fast charge while the driver, who was foolish enough to waste his time on that dump of gambling addicts and casinos that look like fake Venices and Pyramids, would be easily able to recharge it at one of the many fast superchargers in less than half an hour, I believe. But the NYT reporter decided to take the failed Bolt instead, which has fairly long range at 238 miles or so, but not long enough to avoid recharging each way, and being no Tesla, it could not use the many superchargers along the way.

  132. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Maybe the Japanese government should have gone after Nissan and not Ghosn individually or those who got that deal together in the first place. Sure Carlos was a player but I’m sure both boards of each company were more than involved in the details that somehow let, encouraged or was improperly manipulated that let the shenanigan’s ensue (illegal or immoral as they may or may not have been). There is surely more than we can hope to know that may never be revealed.

  133. Kit Gerhart Says:

    131 I recently saw an article, I think IEEE, describing the hodgepodge of different charge networks for non-Tesla EVs. You would need to use about 8 different networks to make a U.S. cross country trip on a non-Tesla EV.

    125 That video does a good job of pointing out how much less efficient most EVs are than similar size Teslas. It makes sense that the E-tron is less efficient than most, because it is tall and heavy, but why is the Taycan so inefficient, when it has very similar dimensions to the Model S? Are Tesla’s motors that much more efficient than what others are using? As far as charge/dicharge efficiency, from what I’ve read, there isn’t much difference among different battery configurations, as with cylindrical vs flat cells.

  134. Larry D. Says:

    133 The Model S looks more like the Panamera. I believe the Taycan has far less interior room. Is it a 4 door? If it is, I wonder why.

    Re the e-tron Audi did not want its battery to degrade too fast and as a solution it is not using it fully. I’m not an expert on EV motors to know if and why Tesla’s are more efficient.

  135. Larry D. Says:

    I remember domestic automakers in the 90s were using Camrys as ‘benchmarks’ to develop and improve their own sedans. Maybe Accords and Civics too. I wonder if any of them are doing the same with Teslas and their BEV designs. It should allow them to piggyback on the success of Tesla and even develop something better. Reminds me of the few times I had a homework due in school and too little time to do it, and a friend would give me his to help me, and usually I would end up with a better grade, of course, doing at least as well, and usually better, than he or she did.

  136. Kit Gerhart Says:

    134 The Taycan is a 4 door liftback, like a Model S. From CR’s charts, the two are very similar in exterior dimensions, but I haven’t seen anything about cabin space of the Taycan. CR shows the Taycan as 360 pounds heavier than a Model S 100D. Panamera is similar size to S and Taycan, but, of course, hundreds of pounds lighter, 470 pounds lighter than the Model S.

    I’ve read a couple places that the Taycan does not use the “top” 12% of the battery charge cycle, to make the batteries last longer. Yeah, they do the same thing with the e-tron. Tesla uses “full change” for the EPA tests, so they get extra range, but even testing at 88%, they would still get good range. Tesla suggests not charging the battery fully, unless you need to for a trip, and from what I read, give a lot of user flexibility on charging.

  137. Kit Gerhart Says:

    135 It sure looks like Ford is benchmarking the Model Y for their E-thing, from what we know about either of them. From the charts shown in the video linked in 125, though, it looks like the Y will be significantly more efficient.

    134 Regarding motor efficiency, I remember Sandy Munro talking in one of his videos about “trick” magnets from a Tesla motor, as I remember, with two magnets stuck together with same poles against each other. Maybe that makes motors more efficient. Just guessing. The bottom line is that Tesla cars are more efficient than other similar size and performance EVs, much more efficient in some cases. The only EVs that match, or beat some versions of Model 3 are the lighter, slower Bolt and Kona. It’s hard to know why the Teslas would be more efficient, unless it’s the motors. The battery charge/discharge efficiency of all these cars should be similar, and I’d expect the motor control efficiency to also be similar, though I could be wrong on that.

  138. Larry D. Says:

    136 Ford was the one I was told about in the 90s by engineers working there, who was doing the benchmarking on the Camrys and maybe on the Lexus LS400 too. (Others might have done the same).

    Re the battery, I thought the problem is draining it to almost zero juice, not fully charging it, but have not checked it out. SMaller appliances I have (such as an electric toothbrush for almost 20 years) recommend it is always fully charged or as much as possible, by always resting it on the charger when not in use.

  139. Larry D. Says:

    136 That’s unusual for Porsche because with the exception of the Cayenne, it has better weight discipline in its models than Merc or BMW (Or Audi). If not because of more batteries for longer range, why would the Taycan be so much heavier? Is it an inefficient design like the Etron (with which it probably shares parts) and they did not have the time to make it sleeker?

  140. Larry D. Says:

    Far more interesting than usual, this morning’s Autonews video. The data at the end especially about dealers having on average an operating loss of $13k in 2018, vs an op gain of $92k in 2017.

    Many reasons could contribute to this, including the shift from 3 series and its clones to the Model 3, both in new car sales and in lost vital service revenues. But this is just the beginning of this trend.

  141. Lambo2015 Says:

    So will AD be back today or off until Monday?

  142. Lambo2015 Says:

    138 Absolutely true, as I was working for a supplier to Ford in the 90s and they leased a brand new Lexus LS400. I had the car for about two months as I needed to put 500 miles on it before I could start any Dyno testing. We were absolutely using it for benchmarking and at the time I was on the Lincoln Continental program.

  143. Lambo2015 Says:

    141 Re-read the transcript I see Sean said they would be back Jan 3rd.

  144. Larry D. Says:

    143 Fri Jan 3. So no AAH today either. THey could have waited till next Monday, if it is only this Fri.

  145. Kit Gerhart Says:

    138 I’ve mostly heard that, with lithium batteries, it’ best to use the “middle” of the charge/discharge cycle.

    Your toothbrush would have NiMH batteries. They last well if kept full, and can be left on very low rate trickle indefinitely without damage.

  146. Larry D. Says:

    “One former colleague said Ghosn will walk away from the scandal “even wealthier when it’s all done,” while a former executive rival contends Ghosn suffers from “CEO disease … believing himself to be omnipotent and infallible.”

    Τhe second one is Bob Lutz. Details in the video:

  147. Larry D. Says:

    145 The annoying thing about the e-toothbrushes is that you cannot replace the batteries when they die, you cannot open the toothbrush bottom and take them out, instead you have to buy a new toothbrush plus charger set, very wasteful. I had to do it once since I started using the e-brush around 2006, so the batteries last at least 5-7 years, used for a timed 2 mins each time, 2 or 3 times every day.

  148. Larry D. Says:

    December and 2019 sales are pouring in today, but due to Ford delaying its dismal results, we will have to wait until Monday for the full picture.

    Most automakers slipped in Dec, even Hyundai which was doing well lately and reports its sales early (except the failed Genesis of course, which is doing poorly). Not Tesla, though.

  149. Larry D. Says:

    From the above:

    In Q4, Tesla’s deliveries per model added up to:

    63,150 Model 3
    13,500 Model S
    14,050 Model X

    This is just Q4, NOT the whole year, and shows the huge strength (still not out of steam!) of the Model 3, a BMW 3 series killer that sold more than 21,000 copies a MONTH. These days all the 3 and 4 series together barely sell 10,000, and everybody else who is a 3 series rival sells way less than that.

    The S and the X also had excellent sales, given their high prices and their advanced age, at more than 4,000 a month each! Look at their ICE rivals, they don’t even come close. (S class, 7 series, A8, LS whatever, Jag XJ. all of them together don’t sell 4,000 every month.

  150. Larry D. Says:

    OOPS, too bad I cannot delete posts, these above numbers were for calendar 2018, not 19! Sheeeet.

  151. Larry D. Says:

    Sean, could you delete my posts 148-151 included? Thanks.

  152. Larry D. Says:

    Here is the correct article. Tesla had again RECORD sales in 2019, and the shares are RED HOT.

    I thought that “Joe” character would enjoy the above great news. Not!

  153. Larry D. Says:

    “…quarterly deliveries of 112,000 units in the final three months of 2019. (far surpassing last year’s record of 86k-90k)

    The electric-vehicle maker handed over 92,550 Model 3 and 19,450 Model S and Model X electric vehicles in the fourth quarter, according to a statement, eclipsing its previous total best of 97,000 set in the prior three months. Tesla delivered 367,500 vehicles total in all of 2019, topping the low end of its forecast for at least 360,000.”

    92,550 Model 3s in THREE months is just UN Frigging Believable, over 30,000 units a MONTH, if these were all US sales, for a vehicle in this lofty price range, is an ALL TIME RECORD and nothing comes even close.

  154. Larry D. Says:

    In tiny Netherlands, 12,062 Model 3s were registered in December alone. TO scale this to Germany, which should also be up to speed, and has more than 5 times the population, that would mean 60,000 Model 3s a MONTH!!!!!!

    BTW not only is the green party the strongest party in Germany, the Greens have already become GOVERNMENT in Austria, in a coalition with the conservatives. Makes total sense to me, a SERIOUS green party (and not the green chicks in the US congress), aiming to conserve the environment, to govern in alliance with the CONSERVatives.

    BTW2 remember when clueless Barack Obama said the Austrians speak “Austrian”? This is a blunder of the same magnitude than idiot Dan Quayle’s “latin America speaks Latin”, but of course our “honest” media never made a big deal out of that, did they? After all, if they did, the usual suspects would call them ‘racist’, wouldn’t they.

  155. Kit Gerhart Says:

    153 Today, I saw a Model X on I-95 actually going close to the median speed. Most Teslas I see on the interstate are among the slowest of the traffic, I suspect to keep from running out of juice, but there could be other reasons.

    154 Yeah, the dominant language of Austria a German, but the native language is Austro-Bavarian, and there are other minority languages.

    Speaking of clueless, the current national security advisor thinks Kim Jong-un’s family name is Un.