AD #2851 – GM Partners w/ CATL in China; U.S. Sales by Propulsion System; Refreshed Hyundai Santa Fe Gets a Bold Grille

June 4th, 2020 at 11:43am

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Listen to “AD #2851 – GM Partners w/ CATL in China; U.S. Sales by Propulsion System; Refreshed Hyundai Santa Fe Gets a Bold Grille” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:18

0:08 Aston Laying Off One in Five Employees
0:48 Peugeot Debuts Next-Gen e-Traveller Van
1:15 GM Developing Electric Commercial Van
2:09 Ford Adds 10-Speed to Transit Diesel
2:28 GM Partners w/ CATL for Batteries in China
3:37 European CO2 Levels Up with Weak Diesel Sales
4:34 U.S. Sales by Propulsion System
5:24 Nissan Testing Electric All-Wheel Drive
6:14 Nikola Developing Hydrogen Refueling Network
7:31 FCA System Automatically Switches from PHEV to EV
8:34 Hyundai Santa Fe Gets Significant Refresh
9:31 BMW Kidney Grille Design Evolution

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40 Comments to “AD #2851 – GM Partners w/ CATL in China; U.S. Sales by Propulsion System; Refreshed Hyundai Santa Fe Gets a Bold Grille”

  1. Fensterlips Says:

    I’m not sure I understand the draw of these humongous grills. It can’t be less air resistance.
    Maybe BMW is taking cues from Toyota? This is just the trick if you have too many customers and want to tamp down interest and sales?
    An attractive vehicle will sell even in the face of poor reliability – think mid 90s Audi 200s
    An ugly vehicle will struggle for sales even if it provides good value. Pontiac Aztec anyone?

  2. ChuckGrenci Says:

    The Sorrento, bigger grill or not, looks pretty good. (and better than the outgoing model) Hyundai has certainly upped their styling game.

  3. Wim van Acker Says:

    @John, “Gasoline engines literally outsell EVs by a million to one.” No, you are mistaken. Gasoline powered 1,034,638, EV 14,285, so 72 to 1, not 1,000,000 to one.

  4. DenMor Says:

    EV 14,285 and Gasoline 1,034,638

    “Gasoline engines literally outsell EVs by a million to one.”

    Maybe I’m missing something here. Can you explain the math on the 1M:1 ratio?

  5. GM Veteran Says:

    Looks like your analysis team misplaced a decimal point when they did your math. Gasoline sales vs EV sales in the sales data you showed would be roughly 100 to 1, not one million to one.

    Can’t wait for the interview with Trevor Milton. Saw him on CNBC this morning. They have a LOT going on at that company!

  6. Lambo2015 Says:

    Bigger grills means the design team is throwing in the towel. Essentially admitting that all cars and SUVs look about the same anymore and the only way to stand out is place a ridiculous grill on the front. You know who isn’t putting bigger grills on their vehicles. Ones that are already well designed and perfectly identifiable without one.

  7. Buzzerd Says:

    I like the front of the Santa Fe, but I wonder how well those headlights will work. The sure are purty but generally in life the prettier something is the less functional it is.

  8. MJB Says:

    I really like that new Sante Fe grille. No kidding.

    But I called it years back when Lexus first debuted their Spindle grille. I told everyone then that the rest (of the designers) would eventually follow suit. And they did…

    Much like when Samsung started making phablet sized smart phones, while Apple sat back and for years was too proud to make their screens larger. But eventually the pressure got to them. Enough customers wanted larger screens, so they caved and did what everyone said they never would – make a phablet sized phone.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Is this huge grill craze intended to be an anti-Tesla thing, shouting to the world that the cars are not EVs? I bought my 2018 Camry in spite of, not because of the excessively large mouth. I really don’t “get” this styling trend.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8. I might have ended up with iPhones, had they offered larger screens years ago. My first smart phone was android, because larger screens were available, before I knew much about either iPhone or android. Now that I know more about both, I actually like android better for a few reasons, but if I’d had an iPhone first, I might still have one.

  11. Phred Says:

    The GM electrical commercial van line needs to be badged as “GMC” to follow the commercial professional grade tag line.

  12. Wim van Acker Says:

    @11. I suggest to split GM in two divisions: EM and FM, Electric Motors and Fossil Motors.

  13. Ron Paris Says:

    So here’s a question some might consider academic, others troubling. If gas engines still outsell EVs after all these years by a million to one, why are we (read: Autoline) talking about them so much?

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13. Maybe John meant “figuratively,” not “literally” about gas cars outselling EVs by a million to one. As Wim van Acker said in #3, it’s actually ~72 to 1.

  15. Buzzerd Says:

    For the time and money it would cost to create a new brand what would be the benefit ?

  16. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Oops, I said Sorrento instead of Santa Fe (in post #2); oh am I embarrassed, okay maybe not so much but sorry I posted incorrectly. It must have been a ‘Freudkorean’ slip. Still like the look though.

  17. Bob Wilson Says:

    #13 About EVs:

    A) They pretty much captured the upscale car market which continues to tap a high profit margin market.
    B) My low-end Model 3 beats everyone across the intersection and reaches the speed limit 200 yards ahead for lane choice.
    C) Cheaper than a plug-in Prius per mile and Autopilot is standard.
    D) Quiet and comfortable.
    E) Leaves each morning with the optimum charge level.
    F) Cross country, 15-20 minutes to charge for next Supercharger about 2 hrs away for $3.50/100 miles.
    G) $38,000 to replace my Std Rng Plus Model 3.
    H) Teenagers point to it and say, “Cool! A Tesla”

  18. merv Says:

    I found it odd that the santa fe had a single exhaust

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 I kind of like that single exhaust. I get a little tired of the fake dual exhausts on all of these four cylinder cars.

  20. Lambo2015 Says:

    A)They are pursuing the upscale market only because they failed miserably with trying to offer an affordable EV. They lost money and realized they had to pursue the upscale vehicles to even try and turn a profit.
    B)For now.
    C)That’s specific to Tesla not all EVs
    D)Many vehicles at the EV price range are quiet and comfortable.
    E)As long as there isn’t a power outage during the evening or you forget to plug-in. Also assumes you installed a home charger.
    F)Can travel 100 miles in a Camry for $5 and fill up at the nearest corner in 5 min not 15-20. (savings $1.50 & time 15 min)
    G)Yes the Model 3 offers the best bang for the buck but not the case for all EVs.
    H)Ahe if that matters to ya.

  21. george baresich Says:

    please bring your son back

  22. Al C Says:

    How often do you have to replace rear tires or have to rotate them on a Tesla RWD

  23. Al C Says:

    How often do you have to replace rear tires or rotate them on a single motor Tesla

  24. Wim van Acker Says:

    1 no small automobile gets even close to teh size and comfort of my carriage drawn by 4 horses
    2 Wheat and water are available everywhere, that new fuel gasoline only sporadically. Maybe they will stop making it soon.
    3 Almost nobody has an automobile
    Etc., I hope you are getting the picture here. The whole world is moving toward electric propulsion. Investments in ICE’s have been drastically reduced. Like it or not (I just ordered a diesel-powered vehicle to serve me for hopefully many years to come), but it is reality.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    17. The Tesla web site shows autopilot as a $7000 option on the Model 3 standard range plus. Was it standard at one time, but not now?

    My Camry hybrid costs about $4.00/100 miles at 60 mph, and $4.60/100 miles at 80 mph, at current gas prices in Indiana. Yeah, that will probably go up soon. The cool thing, to me, is that I can go a safe 550 miles at 80 mph per 5 minute fill up. As I’ve said before, though, I’d quite likely have an EV as one of my cars, if I could charge it at my condo in FL. If I had only one car, though, it would use liquid fuel, as things are now, even if I could charge an EV at home.

  26. Michael S Says:

    Does anyone have any insight on whether the Santa Fe will be getting the AWD Hybrid system that is coming in the Sorrento?

  27. Prabhakar Patil Says:

    A slight correction. Based on the numbers in the article, ICEV-to-EV sales ratio is ~70:1, not a million to one :)

  28. Bob Wilson Says:

    #17 – There has been a feature split between Autopilot and Full Self Driving (FSD). With FSD, I can summon the car in a parking lot; see renderings and auto-stop at STOP signs and lights, and; integration of self-steering with navigation. The gap will grow in the future. It is a subtle change in labeling that will remain confusing to most.

    Full disclosure, last year I paid $3,000 for an early Autopilot inferior to the current. In October of last year, I paid $6,000 for FSD and it included upgrading to HW 3.0 which is 20 times more processing power. My car is becoming ‘urban’ aware that super cruise can not achieve because it is too slow and few cameras.

  29. Steve Hen Says:

    The big giant grill idea had to come from Lexus. I haven’t liked the face of Lexus since. But the rest of the vehicle is 2 thumbs up.

  30. Lambo2015 Says:

    24 What? I assume the picture you were after was that EVs are the future, and the transformation from horse and buggy to gas mirrors the shift to gas to electric now. I’m not denying that. We will certainly get there someday. I was just stating that of the items that Bill point out as advantages of EVs, are really not advantages other than quick acceleration. The cost advantage isn’t there yet as no gas savings offsets the up front cost and they are certainly not more convenient.

    I’m not against EVs and understand any new technology takes years to develop and adapt. People will develop a better battery and charging will become quicker and more convenient. Everything will improve, But we are not there yet and to try and pretend we are is just delusional. But it is new exciting technology and to answer the original question from Ron #13 they are talked about a lot because its changing quickly and likely the future of transportation.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27. Thanks for info. I looked at the web site again, and it looks like the cheapest Model 3 has a partial autopilot standard, that will keep the car in its lane, accelerate a brake, but the real system costs $7K.

    The actual transition from horse to self propelled vehicles was mainly to steam and electric at first, with both outselling gas cars for a few years in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Electric cars were much easier to operate than gas cars, with crank start. They were also much quieter and less smelly than early gas cars. The advent of electric starters in 1912, the year the Titanic sank, quickly resulted in gas cars dominating the market. Early, 6-7 foot tall boxy electric cars with lead-acid batteries didn’t go very fast, or have much range.

  32. Larry D. Says:

    Teslas sell at luxury and entry luxury prices, but they are not luxury cars, they are high tech, really high performance cars. They are the i-phone of cars, and ICEs are the rotary dials. (or the horse and buggies are).

    I could not believe the ‘literally a million to one’ nonsense, but several of you already pointed it out.

    Re the BMW Grille, thought never crossed my mind it would be a deliberate design to pass as the “Anti-Tesla”. I seriously doubt it, they just continue the design blunders started by Bangle with the 2001-8 eminently forgettable Bungled-butt 7 Series. Many features on current BMWs still have the curse of Bangle (the damn flares on the sides. Hyundais have flares. No need for BMWs and Mercs to ape them.

  33. Larry D. Says:

    Comparing BEVs to ICEs reminded me of myself when I made a very similar comparison, between my Magnificent ICE at the time (the awesome 740iL), when I compared it to the royal carriages of Louis XIV, the so-called “Sun King” of France int he 17th century, and told a friend how I pitied the clown and his entourage, trying to imagine him driving from Paris to the French Riviera on the pitiful dirt roads of the time, in his Flintstone(with bling) carriage, and thought I have such a hugely better time doing it. My friend, (know him since he was 12) ho is a dyed in the wool commie, challenged the above by remarking that Louis had all those palaces, concubines, gold etc. WHich he did, but Transportation-wise, I kicked some major Louis Ass!

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Electric luxury of 1912:

  35. ChuckGrenci Says:

    33, interesting link; wonder how they charged and how long they needed to charge. For sure, the early offering between electric, gasoline and steam were neck and neck in comparison (until I believe the introduction of the electric starter, ironic, that gasoline took hold).

  36. Lambo2015 Says:

    30 Yeah I bet there are only a few folks around that have hand cranked a car to get started. I’ve been to a few car shows and watched it first hand but never done it myself, at least on a car. One of my first jobs as a 15 year old was on a farm which had an old Allis Chalmers Tractor that had a hand crank. It was very easy to see how people broke wrists back in the day.
    The first hotrod I build was a 1935 Chevy which still had the hole in the bottom of the grill for a crank even though the car came with a starter. Not really sure what year they finally stopped with the crank access. Guess its like motorcycles and how many offered the kick start in addition to the starter for a long time.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34. Here’s a pretty good article about early electric cars. There is also a more comprehensive wikipedia article.

    It mentions people charging them at home, and at repair garages that offered overnight charging. I suspect overnight would be plenty of time for a full charge.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    35. The British kept the crank start backup for a long time, with the Lucas electrics and all. I crank started an MG at a car show a few years ago. It seems like it was an MGB, but it might have been older. The owner was letting anyone crank it that wanted to. The engine was warmed up, and “ready to go,” so it was very easy to crank start. The owner had us pull up on the crank, with fingers wrapped around the handle, so in the unlikely event the engine back fired, it would just slip the handle out of your fingers, with no damage to arms, etc.

  39. ChuckGrenci Says:

    So the same challenges remain for today’s electrics, higher prices, cheap gasoline and range. They have certainly narrowed so we’ll see how long ultimate changeover occurs.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    39 Also, speed/performance in those early days. Of what I ran across, many, or most of those early EVs would go 15-20 mph, while a Model T would go about 40.