AD #2876 – VW Tiguan Impressions; Fisker Wants to Use VW MEB Platform; GM on Track with EV Development

July 17th, 2020 at 11:56am

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Listen to “AD #2876 – VW Tiguan Impressions; Fisker Wants to Use VW MEB Platform; GM on Track with EV Development” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:41

0:07 GM on Track with EV Development
1:03 Schmidt To Finish Prison Sentence in Germany
1:58 Fisker Wants to Use VW MEB Platform
3:37 Why Ford Is Reviving the Bronco
5:13 Goodyear To Remove Wrangler Name from Bronco Tires
5:42 VW Developing New Operating System For Its Vehicles
6:46 Lyft Provides Drivers with Partitions
7:15 Volkswagen Tiguan Impressions
9:14 Barn Find Revealed

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43 Comments to “AD #2876 – VW Tiguan Impressions; Fisker Wants to Use VW MEB Platform; GM on Track with EV Development”

  1. Bob Wilson Says:

    I attended the Detroit Auto Show in 2009 and wanted to see the Fisker about their ‘pedestrian safety sound.’ When I explained what I was after to the attractive, young lady with the French-Canadian accent, she answered with,”Oh the synthetic roar.” My Southern ears heard “whore” which considering this was to sound like a V8 engine, I might have been right.

    My point is Fisker has a poor track record of making significant contributions to EV or hybrid technology. I would rather see a Corvette C8 shell on the skateboard because they at least make ‘value added engineering.’ Then our Teslas can shame them on the street, again.

  2. Kit Gerhart Says:

    My memory of Fisker is the crappy, underdeveloped Karma plug-in hybrid that had about 30 miles of electric range, and then a dismal 20 mpg on premium gas, accompanied by the roar of a poorly isolated turbo 4 running a generator for its series powertrain. How is Fisker still (sort of) in the car business?

  3. lambo2015 Says:

    Sorry Lift but I don’t think the majority of riders are so worried about the driver as they are sitting in a seat that you may have already transported a dozen other people in. The mask seems to resolve the proximity concern, its the contact. IMO

  4. lambo2015 Says:

    Wow! Sad to hear that Fords reasons for bringing back the Bronco sound like nothing more than cause they had capacity in a frame on body plant. How about because we designed and developed an exciting vehicle that people will certainly want.. Maybe figure out what your customers want and not what fits your build capacity..

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The ’90s Broncos were just big, pickup truck based SUVs, and after 1996, Ford just added two doors, renamed the next generation, calling it Expedition. The new Bronco is more a modern reincarnation of earlier Broncos.

  6. Wim van Acker Says:

    @5: Kit, Expedition, or Explorer?

  7. Larry D. Says:

    Very Wisely, HONDA discontinues the poor selling FIT, just days after Toyota discontinued the Yaris in the US market. Even tho the Fit was far more attractive and a smarter design than its rivals, it failed in the MARKETS, which is the TEST.

    You remember or not I had advised them to drop both models in this forum just DAYS ago, and several times before that.

    Now necessity made them do it. They can still do well overseas, they were NOT Designed for the US market and needs.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    6. From what I read, the ’92-’96 Bronco was based on the then-current F series platform, but it would have been closer in size to today’s Explorer. The first Explorers used the Ranger platform, and overlapped the last “old” Bronco by a few years.

  9. bradley cross Says:

    Based on the AAH interviews, Oliver is a very smart man and will be interesting to hear what he says after his jail term; will he ever really speak freely about VW internals?
    Perhaps he should write a book but perhaps VW wants the issue closed so would not encourage that :)
    Also interesting that you visited him in jail and that he chose to face-the-music versus the rest of the gang.

  10. Wim van Acker Says:

    @8: I see, thanks for the explanation

  11. Larry D. Says:

    7 Con’d, of course I am pleased both successful companies did the right thing, many YEARS since i suggested they do it, and it had to take a major disturbance in the market for them to do it. Or a crisis, if you want to call it that.

    Re why Ford resurrected this Bronco Carcass, because they are Desperate, and they gamble that they may get a fraction of Jeep’s success. BUT the Jeeps look far better.

  12. WineGeek Says:

    Hey Sean it sounds like your impressions of the new Tiguan were less than top flight. VW has a real problem with producing a vehicle that looks good and offers good technology. All of the VW vehicles are less than exciting on any front.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7. Yeah, the U.S. market becomes increasingly a wasteland of little vehicle choice. Now, Honda has announced that they are also dropping the Civic Coupe and manual transmission Accords.

    I checked CR’s test results of Tiguan and some competitors, and the VW is seriously slow. At 10.3 seconds, it’s about 2 seconds slower 0-60 than the 1.5t and hybrid CR-V, the base and hybrid versions of the RAV4, and the hybrid Escape. It’s more than a second slower than even the 1.5t 3 cylinder Escape. Mainly, the VW has a weight problem. It’s 350-400 pounds heavier than all of the competitors I mentioned. It did well in CR’s “comfort” categories, though.

  14. lambo2015 Says:

    5 No doubt the new Bronco is a Ode to the first gen 65-77 Bronco and not so much the 2nd gen.
    However the reto-style that was the craze back in 2005 has run its course. The Challenger is the lone survivor of those designs and people are surprised its still holding on.
    So the big question will be is there interest in the Bronco cause its similar capabilities to Wrangler, because of its retro style or because it fits a niche that other Ford products don’t fill? Probably all three to some extent. Will that translate to sales that last or will it be a flash in the pan? If people love it for the style then sales will drop after just 2 or three years. If its because it offers a choice over a Wrangler sales will stay steady but probably not be huge. Does it fit a niche Ford doesn’t already have? Well I think there are plenty of SUVs to choose from and that wont sustain sales either.. Best hope for Ford is this thing performs well and continues to pull buyers from Jeep.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14. The Challenger has done impressively well to keep selling after all of these years. It has been helped a lot by all of the “special editions” and, by far, the most powertrain choice of any current cars in the U.S. market.

    I expect Bronco will compete well with Wrangler in performance, but will it become “cool” in the way Wrangler has over the years? I’m sure hard core Ford fans will buy one to go along with their F-150 and Mustang, but beyond that? For the use today’s zillions of lifted wagons typically see, there will be far better choices than Bronco, but that doesn’t stop Wrangler from selling over 200K a year.

  16. lambo2015 Says:

    15 I believe Challenger has lasted so long because of its size. For a sportscar it actually is a large vehicle. Not that it has a huge backseat but its more useful than Mustang or Camaro and a decent size trunk. The special editions, RT,Hellcat, Scat pack, Redeye, Demon, yellow-jacket etc have also kept it fresh even when there has been minimal changes to the body. Its a comfortable large car that’s responsive even in its V6 versions. Its been 10 years though, and its days have to be numbered.

    I’m just not sure that Ford going retro was a good idea. The retro thing really started in the late 90s with the Prowler, PT cruiser, GMs SS truck that failed, HHR and then the Mustang and Camaro all that have since abandoned the retro theme. Consumers might feel its a day late and dollar short. Plus any new car design is only cool the first couple years its out. Is the design enough to draw in buyers? For the few that it does those folks get it the first year or two and then what?

    Just saying the Bronco had better do better than compete with the Wrangler it better be a superior choice at a lower price to really put the hurt on Jeep. Cant just sneak in they need to kick the door in.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15. The only “new” Challenger I have driven is an R/T, 6 speed manual. It was quick, with the 5.7 engine, but feels big, much more than sporty. Well, it is big, almost 200 inches long.

    The New Beetle is the only one of these fairly recent retro vehicles I can think of that had two generations, but it didn’t see a 3rd. I know a guy who has an SSR truck, who takes it to shows. He bought it used, in perfect condition, for a very good price. Those cost way too much new, so no wonder they didn’t sell. PT Cruiser and HHR were both practical, well priced little wagons, and sold well early on, but as you say, retro has most run its course.

    I suspect Bronco will perform better than Wrangler is some ways. Acceleration with the 2.7 turbo should be better than the quickest Wrangler, but that isn’t what people buy Wranglers for. A few buy them for hard core off roading, and most buy them to look cool while cruising, or going to Walmart. It surprises me a little, though, how many people drive Wranglers on the interstate, given how crude and noisy they are compared to most of today’s vehicles. I saw a number of them during my recent trip from Florida to Indiana.

  18. joe Says:

    GM is getting ready to put Tesla in deep trouble with it slew of EV’s coming out before too long. There’s nothing that Tesla has that GM does not have, GM has a much larger infrastructure, better battery, OTA, skateboard design which Tesla copied from GM, an honest CEO, and the list goes on and on. Many people are not aware of these facts, but none the less, they are facts. Facts that Wall Street does not like to divulge, but sooner or later they will have to.
    Larry D, the Tesla lover, what’s your response?

  19. cwolf Says:

    I like the retro Bronco look, but fail to see why Ford is making an off road vehicle which such a sliver of the market.
    I think there would be more buyers if there was a model designed for street use, ie… lower the frame, add street tires and leave off all the safety crap like lane change or the many more unneeded devices

  20. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    18) I tend to agree. The only advantage that TESLA will really have is the supercharger network. However, GM is also to release fast charging capability as well that can be translated through a standard interface rather than the TESLA proprietary interface. That will open their vehicles up to an array of charging options without the need to carry a bunch of adaptors with you. That is a benefit to most people that are not tech geeks.

  21. cwolf Says:

    I think it is sad sedans if any size will become a thing if the past and suvs will be an only choice until everything come with a battery. Shops are destroying collectible cars by adding battery packs. I am willing to accept change, but for the rest of my life an EV will only be a second or third car.

  22. cwolf Says:

    EV’s only make up 2% of the US market aa the gov’t continues to drive them into the future. So obtaining dominance will be a real struggle. Add all the chargers you want and you still won’t obtain the desired market share. Manufacturing costs may lower to the point subsidies will evaporate, but after that, cost will rise again and the buyer will pay for it.
    There is no free lunch!

  23. cwolf Says:

    Larry, if we don’t listen to you, do you really relieve any manufacturer cares about what the limited expertise you have?
    You have an ego like another +*%$# I know.

  24. joe Says:

    23 You are so right.
    I tried to engage him on line 18, but he’d rather not.

  25. cwolf Says:

    It’s OK Joe. Just remember the differences we all have and share is what equilibrium is based upon. Differences are good and results in a balanced dialog. Unfortunately, this has gone out the window with this presidency. But change is good also and not far away if we are lucky

  26. ChuckGrenci Says:

    19, cwolf, don’t you think that’s what Ford did with the Bronco Sport (a street version that is light off-road capable like some of the rest of the SUV/CUV’s out there). Ford is going for some heritage sales with styling, which to me doesn’t measure up, but others might and probably prefer; but I see your point of a more simpler version getting back more to basics.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26. It looks like the Bronco Sport is, basically, an Escape with more macho styling, and mandatory 4wd. It will share the 1.5l turbo 3 cyl and 2.0l turbo 4 cyl with Escape.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    13 This is 100% WRONG. Check the FACTS, there are FOUR times the models today that there were in 1988.

    It is the OPPOSITE, somebody should tell Merc and BMW to cut 2/3rds of their RIDICULOUS number of slow selling niche models,few of which make them any money.

    The CONSUMER will decide which models live and which die.

  29. Larry D. Says:

    18n HAHAHAHA!!!!
    Does GM pay you to write this clueless DRIVEL, OR are you just delusional?

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28. Yeah, there are four times as many, and they are all alike. Your numbers include the 4 or 5 trim levels of many of the CUVs, and 8 trim levels of the pickup trucks as “models,” never mind that there are no wagons, no mainstream two door cars, except the specialty Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc.

    I agree that M-B and BMW have too many pointless models, like expensive, lifted 4wd hatchbacks. Meanwhile, both refuse to sell a normal version of their wagons in the U.S.

  31. Larry D. Says:

    Ι don’t expect rational thought in this forum, with clueless types like Cqwolf and Joe bashing on a daily basis the ONLY succesful BEV maker, who just HAPPENS to be 100% AMERICAN, AND the ONLY American Automaker who is REVERED and not RIDICULED overseas all over the world.

    I also do not have much hope for the likes of people who just cannot understand that this INDUSTRY cannot perpetually be making losses, by satisfying their whims and producing all the LOSER models who sell 3 units a year AND cost, each one of them, BILLIONS to their makers.

    They just do not understand that THEY, not I, are paying the bill for the failed Yaris and the failed Fit, the people who buy the SUCCESSFUL models like the CAMRY COROLLA RAV4 or the Accord CIVIC and CRV.

    They STUBBORNLY ignore that each continent and nation have DIFFERENT market conditions, gas prices, geography, AND NEEDS in terms of VEHICLES. WE DO NOT ALL WANT TO DRIVE A GOD DAMNED FORD ESCORT or Yaris or FIT. Those vehicles are SUITED for OTHER nations, where they buy them OF NECESSITY, NOT because they like them. Go parallel park an Escalade or a F 150 in any W European Capital and you will GET IT.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31. M-B and BMW sell tens, or hundreds of thousands of C- and E-Class, and 3 and 5 series wagons around the world, most of them RWD. It wouldn’t cost much to sell them in the U.S. There is little difference in regulations between Europe and the U.S., and the powertrains are already used in other vehicles sold in the U.S.

    As far as Fit and Yaris, those too are sold in fairly large numbers around the world. It’s not like they spent billions of dollars to tool them, to sell a few thousand in North America.

  33. joe Says:

    29

    Instead of throwing insults whenever you don’t like what someone writes, why don’t you engage with them with an intelligent debate–or are you too scared someone might know more than you do? Isn’t that part of blogging? If you did this, we might all learn something.

  34. Bob Wilson Says:

    # 18 – wrote “GM is getting ready to put Tesla in deep trouble with it slew of EV’s coming out before too long.” Well Tesla is selling four EV models in 2-4 trims today, on the Web. In contrast, GM is caught in a trap: (1) keeping existing ICE model profits while (2) not cannibalizing ICE sales.

    The web link to a 30 minute YouTube is an EV analysis of how today’s ICE sales can be hurt, possibly fatally. By touting future GM Tesla killers, the future promise can hurt current ICE sales.

    The GM EV, a Bolt, is not even close to the Model 3. It is 97F outside but I’ll hop in my 75F air conditioned Tesla, plugged in, and run errands for half the cost per mile of our former Prius Prime. In ‘chill mode,’ my Tesla beats the ICE cars across the intersection with a 200 yard head start to the speed limit for lane choice.

    If GM pre-sells their EVs too hard, some of their ICE owners will defer buying a new one waiting for the EV. Only a Tesla is already available. GM is in a CATCH-22 or as the video shows, the applied “Osborne” effect.

    #18 also posted,”There’s nothing that Tesla has that GM does not have” except competitive EVs. Bob Lutz recently pointed out the original EVs were (are) terrible. Cheap, small, compliance vehicles. There was nothing that would appeal to a true enthusiast. Sandy Munro tear down of the Model Y has shown that day has passed. IMHO, it started with the 2014 BMW i3-REx.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    34 The video was interesting. I hadn’t heard of the “Osborne effect,” but it makes sense. They guy seemed to be obsessed with saying that EVs are “better” than ICE cars, without ever mentioning that “it depends.” If you don’t have a place to charge it, or if you don’t want a 17 hour road trip to become a 23 hour trip, ICE cars are better.

    As far as i3s, a Bolt is better, if you just use it as an electric car. The Bolt is quicker, roomier, more efficient, and has a lot more electric range. The REx, of course, has the advantage in being able to “keep going,” without charging, but with frequent stops.

    Regarding GM, and other legacy car companies making the transition to EVs, time will tell. VW will probably be the first real test of that, as they seem to be getting serious about it earlier than most.

  36. joe Says:

    34 thanks for you input

    Yes, today Tesla is selling lots of EV’s, but today is today. I stated GM is getting ready to come out with many EV’s and you seem to ignore that. GM has a much larger infrastructure than Tesla and if it wants, it’s capable of selling a lot more EV’s than Tesla. The key here is who can sell their products for less. GM can do that with their 100 years of experience of know how.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I guess I hadn’t kept much track of F1 during the long off-season. I learned today, that Ferrari apparently got caught cheating with their powertrains last year, and in making them legal, they have been truly underwhelming this year. Even Force India is kicking their butts, with a driver who has his job mainly because his daddy’s rich.

    Anyway, the Red Bull mechanics were pretty impressive, getting Verstappen’s car good to go in less than a half hour after a crash. I expected him to retire within a few laps, because of some unknown, unfixed problem from the crash, but he impressively held on to finish second, splitting the Mercedes.

  38. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Interesting F1 season for sure and for many reasons including Covid, Ferrari, other teams exceeding expectation and drivers rising and some falling in expectation. The racing has been better this year so far, and except for one exception M/B, it would be a real ‘horse race’. No engine changes will be allowed in 2020 so Ferrari won’t likely get much better but maybe rise to best of the rest but that also is doubtful. Much excitement in mid pack racing is the big plus this year.

  39. lambo2015 Says:

    33 There is no intelligent debate or respectful back and fourth. Typical instructor that knows everything and we are his students in his eyes. We should be hanging on his every word.
    I don’t always agree with Kit but he never responds condescending and offers more evidence to support his position. May still not agree but I can respect his position.

    As for the Osborne affect, I will have to watch the video. But just from what was explained here I agree that any conventional manufacturer will face the struggle of selling ICE and EVs. I actually expect GM to make the Hummer brand a whole division of EVs. They need to keep the separation from their core business to the new EV business. I believe consumers opinions of EVs is changing and a lot of that is attributed to Tesla. All the original EVs were crappy econobox designs that supported a high mileage green theme. Since Tesla, that opinion has shifted to an EV can be anything and if I’m spending 50 to 80K on it then it better be more than some sub-compact runaround.
    Still EVs don’t work for everyone and I think its in GMs best interest to keep them separate from everything else they sell. People who want an EV will go to the Hummer dealership and they will be expensive so its best to not have them sitting on the same showroom floor with an ICE equivalent at half the price.

    If they insist on keeping them all together I still feel it would be best for GM to design a vehicle from the ground up that can be offered with either powertrain. Start your designs with ICE, Hybrid and full EV in mind and then let the market decide which powertrain they want in the same exact vehicle.
    Then it would be like it currently is with diesel. Your base truck is $XXX Diesel is a $4000 option. Your car is this with ICE $2000 for hybrid and $5000 more for full EV.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    To me, if GM creates an EV “brand” to use for all EVs, including Tesla Y-like hatches, etc., they need to use a name other than Hummer. The original Hummers were so disgusting to me, with their 3 foot high “bumpers,” etc., that I wouldn’t buy a vehicle with the Hummer name, no matter how well I liked it otherwise. Reviving the name for a macho, fast, off-road capable truck makes a certain amount of sense, but as an all encompassing EV name, no way. If they want to revive a name for EVs, maybe Geo would be good. Well, probably not. Geo carries baggage with a lot of people. Actually, I’d be ok with a Chevy EV, at the right price for what it is. I just checked the GM employee/retiree site, and you can buy a zero option Bolt for about $27K. I’d consider that, if I had a place to charge it at my condo.

  41. lambo2015 Says:

    Hummer just seems like it might fit for EVs as that’s kind of the sound of an electric motor. More of a hum apposed to anything else. Yeah it does conger up images of some oversized over the top SUV but they may be able to change perception.

  42. lambo2015 Says:

    Interesting take on the new Bronco.
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-bronco-ii-did-not-work-out-for-anyone/ar-BB16WbeJ?ocid=ientp

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    42. I’ve personally one person who has rolled a vehicle, and it was a Bronco II. He was an 18-19 year old recent high school grad, and luckily, was not hurt badly. Bronco IIs just looked too narrow for their height, and probably were.