AD # 2887 – GM & EVgo Partner to Add More Fast Chargers; Chinese Car Demand Still Weak; Ford Bronco Door Design

August 3rd, 2020 at 11:53am

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Listen to “AD # 2887 – GM and EVgo Partner to Add More Fast Chargers; Chinese Car Demand Still Weak; Ford Bronco Door Design” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:42

0:07 Consumer Demand in China Still Weak
0:34 Chinese Auto Industry Headed for Major Shakeout
1:11 Russia Considers Breathalyzers for Cars
2:40 Opel Adds Off-Road Capability to Its Vans
3:13 GM & EVgo Partner to Add More EV Fast Chargers
4:19 PSA Group Introduces New EV Platform
5:11 Wuling Unveils New Victory Van
7:04 Ford Bronco Door Design

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23 Comments to “AD # 2887 – GM & EVgo Partner to Add More Fast Chargers; Chinese Car Demand Still Weak; Ford Bronco Door Design”

  1. Don Sherman Says:

    Would be nice to know if Ford will sell Bronco two doors with the triangular shaped hole in the side (lower portion). Or is that merely a concept vehicle flight of fancy??

  2. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sean; Does the new Bronco have an all aluminum body or just the doors as mentioned in todays clip? A bit surprised I haven’t heard much on it being an alloy if it is.

  3. kevin a Says:

    Sean, your PSA piece got me thinking. Car cos tell us that model/body design is a huge expense. During the transition from ICE to EVs, would it make sense to design bodies that can do both? I’m thinking an EV with a large battery bay that can also be an ICE hybrid with a smaller battery that fills part of the battery bay and a small flat 4 ICE that fills the rest. Have you heard of anyone who has prototyped this yet?

  4. kevin a Says:

    … the Volt was sort of like that, wasn’t it?

  5. Barry T Says:

    1 Don. My understanding is the door will be an aftermarket accessory offered after sale.

    2 Lambo2015 I heard the doors, hood and tailgate are aluminum and the rest of the body steel alloys.


    3) BMW is reportedly trying that concept. Not sure if they will be successful.

  7. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3,6. I guess time will tell how things work out in the end, but it seems like packaging is hugely different for an ICE or hybrid car, and an EV. An ICE car, or hybrid, has a big “lump” at one end, normally in the front, but has other smaller parts of various shapes, like a gas tank and exhaust system underneath. The motor(s) and single speed gear reduction of an EV are small enough that you can put one at each end of the car without raising the floor too much. It seems that the best way to package batteries for a pure EV, where you need a lot of battery, is in a big, flat thing covering much of the underside of the car.

    Regular hybrids have only small batteries, which can go various places, like under the rear seat cushion, as in my Camry hybrid. Plug-in hybrids, of course, need bigger batteries, but typically about 1/4 the size of what is in a pure EV. The quick RAV4 Prime with 42 miles of electric range has only an 18.1 kWh battery, which is apparently under the rear floor, costing some cargo space.

    4. The front drive Volt had all of the powertrain under the hood, pretty much like a regular front driver. The battery was partly in a tunnel between the seats, making the car a 4 seater with a fairly large center tunnel.

  8. Bob Wilson Says:

    I bought both the Munro BMW i3 report, $10, and their sample Model Y report, $5. The BMW i3 report shows how badly BMW engineering are failing at trying to re-enter the EV market. BMW is still using ICE design rules that condemned the i8. In contrast, the long departed BMW i3 team did a ‘blank sheet’ design and our 2014 BMW i3-REx is still the best BMW has done.

    As for designing bodies for both EV and ICE, the Model Y report compares it to a Volvo XC40. The Volvo has a mix of steel grades including a massive dash of “HS Steel” to prevent an engine and transmission from becoming a battering ram into the cabin. In contrast, the Tesla Model Y uses just “UHS Steel” protecting the passenger compartment; “VHS Steel” floor pan and “Mild Steel” dash, and; aluminum to reduce weight and for crush structures. Worse, the Volvo XC40 has a legacy floor hump that prevents lateral ribs while the Tesla has a rail-to-rail, floor pan ribs for a lighter and strong structure.

    The compromises to make a combination EV and ICE body will: (1) burden the EV with excessive weight and poor crash structure, and; (2) burden the ICE with excessive weight to handle battery loads. The shell can be made identical like the Hyundai Ioniq series except they will always be 75% of what they should be.

  9. Bob Wilson Says:

    “Chinese auto industry … major shakeout” reminds me of what is happening in the EV market. Byton is “reorganizing.” But we’re seeing a lot of small, ‘one trick pony’ companies competing for investor dollars: Lordstown, Rivian, Nikola, and Fisker come to mind.

    Any of us can build a prototype with clever graphics and a onetime team. Homebuilt aircraft people do it all the time. But as Tesla showed, making a production line cost tens of billions of dollars and extraordinary commitment to work. There is possibly tens of billions of investment dollars out there but with too many startups, it gets frittered away … a “shakeup.”

  10. Larry D. Says:

    8 The very slow selling VOlvo XC40 is much smaller than the Model Y. If they really wanted to pick some loser from Volvo for comparison, they should have picked the correct size, the 60 or 70.

    In other news, Musk, after receiving all kinds of kudos for his outstanding job with SpaceX (Cspan had nothing else on all day long yesterday) from NASA and others, today said Tesla could or should develop a van and a compact car BEV.

    The van (assuming it is a private vehicle, not a fleet cargo or passenger van) should have a limited market and potential,but the compact could be an even bigger blockbuster than even the mass market Model 3 or Y, if he can price it as attractively for what it will offer. Much will depend on the continuing decline of battery prices, Li-ion or also different battery types he is considering, that do not depend on exotic materials.

  11. MJB Says:

    The ability to stow the Bronco doors inside the vehicle sounds like a pretty nice differentiator to me. I certainly hope Ford capitalizes on this advantage over Jeep Wranglers in their ad campaigns. Seems worth mentioning to the masses, if you ask me.

  12. Larry D. Says:

    The number of Teslas in this area has increased a lot lately. I went out briefly and at the same intersection (a mile from my home) I saw two different Model 3s, a dark gray one (not a good color) and a black one (much better).

    I am listening to a few mins from an interview AutoNews got with Musk. Even after the Texas gigafactory, he sees a third US plant. Surprising to me, because I expected the US to be the THIRD most important market for Tesla in the Future, after China and W Europe.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    12 maybe the reason for the increase is the existence (already?) of that Tesla Store in MI which is also allowed to do deliveries?

  14. Larry D. Says:

    Just checked the markets and my portfolio, they continued their upward movement today, and my biotech fund especially had a huge day, up $23.5k for the day.

    I heard on the news that one huge change due to the CV, which I expected months ago, was that consumers’ Savings Rate has skyrocketed from a mere 0.8% to 20% (!!!!!). They attributed it to the 85% of people still working (or is it 88%?) AND all the retired people, who cannot spend or waste their $ on restaurants, casinos, horseraces, Sports Stadiums and the like.

    I am curious as to what those stats mean by “savings rate”, is it in the narrow sense ($ wasted in savings accounts earning 1% and IN FACT LOSING 2% of its value due to the INFLATION? OR is it wide sense, including stocks and bonds and mutual funds and all that?

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    From last week’s AAH, and mentioned in today’s show, it sounds like nannies will be a market for Bronco. I guess nannies are better paid than I realized, being a potential market for new $50K trucks.

  16. marshy Says:

    In lieu of ‘weed from a crack’, perhaps ‘inverted waterfall’ might be a kinder description!


  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12. I see almost no Teslas where I am, in central Indiana, even though a lot of people live in houses with garages, where there would be easy home charging. I guess it’s because most of the non-doctor/lawyer/financial advisors making a living wage or above work for Chrysler, or what’s left of GM/Delphi. Also, Teslas probably do better in a university town.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14. Would the “official” savings rate include the extra money that is building up in my checking account, automatically deposited from SS, a pension, and IRA distribution, now earning an effective ~-3%?

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11. The door storage would be a selling point if nannies without garages, as the Ford guy mentioned, are actually potential Bronco customers. The Wrangler owners I know all have multiple vehicles, and garages, and would park their Wrangler in a garage if the doors are off.

  20. Lambo2015 Says:

    Having owned a Wrangler, the only advantage of stowing the doors on-board would be if the weather got bad while you were away and you wanted to make the truck weather tight again. Which means you would need to have the soft top as well. The whole interior was able to get wet so as long as the top was up even with the doors off you didn’t get too wet.
    Plus we typically had the doors off while camping which mean the back was filled with water toys towels change of clothes and a cooler. If that space has 4 doors stowed I doubt there is room for those other items.
    Personally I would opt for a canvas door that could snap in but stow in a small space and not haul my hard doors around.
    What would be a more valuable item to me would have been a tray to put the doors on while off the vehicle. I always had a scrap piece of carpet on the garage floor to set them on but while camping I had to find a stop to not damage the bottom of the door and bungee them so no wind gust would blow them over and risk busting the windows. I really doubt they will find many Bronco owners that will keep the doors with them. Nice feature to have as an option but one that wont get used very often.

  21. Bob Wilson Says:

    “Around 17,000 Russians were killed in traffic accidents … drunk drivers.” Russia reports 14,327 COVID-19 deaths this year, ~1.7% fatality rate. The US rate is ~3.3%.

  22. Larry D. Says:

    You all remember how critical I have been of clueless Hackett at Ford.

    Today he was fired, but don’t go buy Ford stock yet, he was replaced by the pathetic Farley, a Ford insider who comes across as a cheerleader with no brains, despite all his claims of being a car nut and all that.

    I am surprised that I, who was so critical of clueless and disastrous Hackett, derive no pleasure at his well deserved firing.

    Ford’s problems are in no way over.

  23. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I’m no Hackett fan, and don’t particularly like Ford as a hole, however Hackett was at the helm for the Bronco project. I wonder if he inherited Bronco or actually was part of the decision. Credit, IF, credit it due; don’t know, just asking.