AD #2905 – Ford Helps Make Self-Parking Cars; Lucid Air Impressively Efficient; BMW’s Diamond-Coated Motorcycle Chain
August 27th, 2020 at 11:46am
Listen to “AD #2905 – Ford Helps Make Self-Parking Cars; Lucid Air Impressively Efficient; BMW's Diamond-Coated Motorcycle Chain” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:05
0:07 Ford Helps Develop Self-Parking Vehicles
1:05 AV Shuttles Getting UV Lights
1:31 Porsche Panamera Updated
4:09 Lucid Air Impressively Efficient
5:15 BMW’s Diamond-Coated Motorcycle Chain
6:10 Ford Creates the Ultimate Virtual Race Car
7:11 Kia Stinger Updated
8:01 Kia Adds PHEV to Sorento Lineup in Europe
8:42 Peugeot Electrifies Its Boxer Van
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
FORD HELPS DEVELOP SELF-PARKING VEHICLES
Step by step, autonomous technology is creeping into our lives. Ford is working with Bosch and Bedrock, a company that runs parking garages, to develop self-parking cars. Fully autonomous cars aren’t available yet so they’re using Lidar and video cameras fitted into parking structures. Here’s how it works. You pull up to a garage, get out of the car, whip out your phone, and use an app that tells your car where to find an open spot. You can then walk away because the car will go park itself. And when you need your car again, you use the app to bring it back to the parking entrance. This allows garages to park cars close together so they can squeeze 20% more cars in a parking structure. As long as a car is equipped with Park Assist it can be adapted for automated parking. The technology is still being developed but it’s another example of how autonomy is slowly but surely becoming a reality.
MOBILITY SHUTTLES GETTING UV LIGHTS
And in other autonomous news, self-driving startups May Mobility and Voyage, are installing UV-light emitters in their shuttles to help kill viruses and bacteria. Similar systems are already used in ambulances, which cost about $2,000. People are leery of using shared transportation during the pandemic, so the companies hope the UV lights will make riders feel more comfortable in their vehicles.
PORSCHE UPDATES THE PANAMERA
Porsche introduced the new Panamera. Its styling has been updated, all models now come standard with the SportDesign front fascia, which was optional before. And a light strip runs across the rear of the car that connects the two taillights. Now to the powertrain updates. The standard Panamera is now equipped with a 2.9L twin-turbo, which replaces the 3.0L single turbo. The GTS model gets a 20-horsepower boost for its twin-turbo V8. The new Turbo S model, which replaces the Turbo, is powered by an upgraded 4.0L twin-turbo V8 that cranks out 620 horsepower and 604 lb.-ft. of torque. And a new plug-in hybrid is available, which pairs an electric motor with that 2.9L twin-turbo V6, which combines for 552 horsepower. And all hybrid models feature a 27% larger battery. The interior gets a slight update, most notably a newly-designed multi-function steering wheel with paddle shifters. The new Panamera arrives at dealerships in the U.S. next spring and pricing will be revealed at a later date.
We invite you to join us for Autoline After Hours today when we’re going to take a deep dive into Polestar. During the week we mistakenly said the show would be about GM’s new full-size SUVs. That show is coming on September 10th. Today we’ll focus on Polestar because we have Gregor Hembrough on the show and he’s the head of Polestar USA. And if you have questions about Polestar, send them [email protected] or send a tweet to @Autoline. Joann Muller from Axios will also be on the show so join John and Gary as they sit down every week with some of the top leaders in the automotive industry.
LUCID AIR IMPRESSIVELY EFFICIENT
Lucid Motors’ Air sedan is impressively efficient. The EV startup revealed the Air will feature a 113 kWh battery pack. It previously said the electric sedan will have a range of up to 517 miles. And doing some quick math that comes to nearly 4.6 miles per kWh. The 517 miles is already impressive and the longest range of any EV, but 4.6 miles per kWh is even more efficient than the Tesla Model 3 at 4.1 miles per kWh. Lucid will also have a leg up on the competition in the luggage department. The Air’s frunk has a capacity of 280 liters, which is nearly 90% bigger than the next biggest electric sedan and 40% bigger than the largest one in an electric SUV. It also boasts best-in-class rear luggage space, even if you add in ICE vehicles. I’m sure we’ll get more information about the Air as we lead up to its debut on September 9th.
BMW CREATES BETTER MOTORCYCLE CHAIN
BMW is known for making shaft driven motorcycles, it’s been doing it for more than 90 years. One of the benefits of a shaft drive is that it requires very little, to no maintenance and now BMW is coming out with a motorcycle chain that also requires no lubrication or adjustments. It improved upon its X-rings chain design by adding a tetrahedrally amorphous carbon coating to the rollers between the links. Tetrahedral amorphous carbon is better known as industrial diamond and won’t wear off over time, while also reducing friction. The M Endurance chain is only available for the S 1000 RR and S 1000 XR bikes right now, but BMW is working on adapting it to more models.
FORD HELPS CREATE ULTIMATE VIRTUAL RACE CAR
You may have seen that Ford, along with its esports team, collaborated with the gaming community to design the ultimate virtual race car and here’s the fruit of that effort, the Team Fordzilla P1 concept. Not only should fans be able to race the car in a game next year, Ford also already started making a full-scale model of the P1, which it will have done before the end of the year. Many of you may think these concepts are kind of dumb, but they serve a purpose. Ralph Gilles, head of design for FCA, recently told us that designers actually like creating these vehicles because they get to be really creative and they can be a good recruiting tool for the automaker.
KIA UPDATES THE STINGER
The Kia Stinger earned instant respect from enthusiasts all around the world, even though sales have not exactly set the world on fire. But Kia is showing that it’s committed to the car by coming out with a number of updates. However, they’re more about comfort and convenience than performance. For example, you can now use an app to start the engine and turn on the seat heater and temperature controls. With big screens all the rage these days, it gets an optional 10.25 inch display. It also gets all the electronic safety technology that you can think of. But enthusiasts will be interested to know Kia added another engine to the lineup, a 2.5 liter turbo. It produces about 300 horsepower and 311 pound feet of torque. That’s more than the base 2-liter turbo, but less than the optional 3-liter V6 turbo.
KIA ADDS PHEV TO SORENTO LINEUP IN EUROPE
Plug-in sales are soaring in Europe and Kia is jumping on the bandwagon with a plug-in hybrid version of the Sorento. The heart of it all is a 1.6-litre turbo with 177 horsepower backed up by an electric motor that adds nearly 90 more horses. A water-cooled 13.8 kWh lithium battery pack is part of the package but Kia did not announce EV range, or CO2 emissions–which is a critical metric in the European market. Even though overall sales are down in Europe this year, PHEVs and BEVs have doubled their market share, reaching nearly 8% of the total market.
PEUGEOT ELECTRIFIES ITS BOXER VAN
A number of you have noted in the comments section that we sure seem to be covering a lot more about electric vehicles. Want to know why? Because that seems to be the main thing that automakers and suppliers want to talk about these days. And now it’s Peugeot’s turn. It just introduced an all-electric version of its Boxer commercial van, called the e-Boxer. It’s available with a 37-kWh battery or a 70-kWh battery, the larger battery provides a range of 340 kilometers or about 211 miles based on the WLTP cycle. It comes in four lengths and three heights and can carry a payload up to 4,160 pounds. If the van looks familiar, that’s because it shares a platform and is built alongside the Fiat Ducato, which is also sold as the Ram Promaster in the US. Last year, Fiat revealed the electric version of the Ducato, so it’s not surprising to see Peugeot follow suit, and we’ve got to believe a version of this will end up in the American market.
But that’s all for today, thanks for watching.
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Comments (44)
August 27th, 2020 at 12:25 pm
Takes about 30 seconds to kill COVID-19 via high powered UV-C light exposure. Should work. The only thing would be to insure that nobody is in the vehicle or that the UV-C cannot filter out to anyone around the vehicle. It is not cool to play fast and loose with cancer causing UV-C light.
August 27th, 2020 at 12:31 pm
Hey Sean, Please say that term three times fast for me. I like the sound myself.
August 27th, 2020 at 12:40 pm
I wish I had a diamond coated chain on my motorcycle. Hopefully you don’t need to lube it as frequently or maybe not at all.
August 27th, 2020 at 12:42 pm
Sean: Any word on the longevity of that new BMW chain? I can understand what they did making lubrication no longer needed but I don’t see how that fixed chain stretch. I have to believe the chain would still need adjustments to account for stretch.
So the self parking cars can help parking structures pack in 20% more cars. They gonna help me pay for that technology. From a buyers perspective not sure I would pay for this feature.
August 27th, 2020 at 12:47 pm
I did notice that Kia doesn’t have the standard Kia badge on the Stinger. Probably a good move on their part. Decent looking car and separating it from Kia should help.
August 27th, 2020 at 12:48 pm
Do the diamond coated chains come with diamond coated sprockets? Don’t you still need to lubricate the chain, lest the sprockets wear out in about a thousand miles?
August 27th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
I like the Lucid Air look, but am not a big fan of EV startups. Maybe they should offer a Lincoln model through Ford dealerships?
August 27th, 2020 at 1:05 pm
@Dale – I don’t think I could say that 3-times fast, but it would probably be fun for other people to watch.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:06 pm
@Joe C – BMW claims no lube at all.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:08 pm
@Lambo – I’m not sure of the service life, BMW doesn’t say, but there’s got to be a point where it needs to be replaced. In automotive that’s usually 10-12 years, but not sure for motorcycles.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:16 pm
9. Hmm… The diamond coating must be like teflon, when in contact with steel sprockets.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:28 pm
Lamborghini, I think chain stretch is actually the wear between the pins and bushings that lengthens the pitch.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:31 pm
12 Sorry, autocorrect
August 27th, 2020 at 1:40 pm
When we parked in the middle of European cities in their spiral underground car parks, it was already pretty impossible to get out of the car. I can’t imagine parking closer together than that, particularly at the speed Europeans like to drive when parking.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:40 pm
It makes much more since, IMHO, for autonomous vehicles to start with self parking in parking garages (and maybe even parking lots?). His way the risk to physical harm to humans is lower and it would away them to more gradually build and grow to over the road driving.
The Lucid Air is nice and it shows that higher range is possible. As I understand, it’s foot print is a hair smaller then the Model S. Yet with 500+ miles of arrange, it comes close or even beyond that of an ICE vehicle. Add to that, most most feul their ICE vehicle once a week, with the Lucid’s arrange, most owners could do the came, even if it took 8-10 hours over night! A midsize CUV with that kind of arrange and an a asking price between $30-50K, may be the honey spot for the average consumers to take the leap to BEV’s.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:55 pm
5.Kia removed the emblem for 2020 and replaced it with just a “Stinger” script on the rear. Yeah, probably a smart marketing move.
August 27th, 2020 at 1:59 pm
14. The whole point of the segment was that the car parks itself autonomously. No human intervention required. Therefore, space for getting in and out is irrelevant.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:00 pm
12 Thanks Joe. I just assumed it was the stretching of the individual links. My bike is shaft driven and I like it a lot over a chain. Which I have had in the past. Its not as dirty, cause even getting caught in the rain it will fling water ever-where, much quieter, and don’t ever have to worry about a shoelace or anything getting caught in a shaft drive. So even with this improvement of not needing lube Id still take shaft drive.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:01 pm
16 What is the “E” on the hood emblem represent?
August 27th, 2020 at 2:31 pm
Sean, you compare this utterly unknown Lucid (who is its sugardaddy, BTW?) with the mass market Model 3 which starts at 37k. Do you have any idea what this Lucid will sell for, and if it is close to that 37k, how many tens of thousands of $ will these amateurs lose per unit?
PS I really could care less about this silly, DOA Polestar. I am sick and tired hearing about it, but I will break my tradition and make a prediction. Polestar will not be long-lived. I know CHinese Geely, VOlvo’s owner, has deep pockets, but at some point their ego will be overruled by their brains. The chinese are not dumb, you know.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:40 pm
OK, here are some interesting facts about LUCID.
Founded 2007; 13 years ago (really? what had it been doing all these years?)
Founder Bernard Tse (Atieva)
Sam Weng (Atieva)
WHat the hell is this “Atieva”? The founders sound like they both are Chinese or CHinese Americans. I had a colleague at Stanford called EDISOn Tse, btw. WOnder if he is Bernard’s dad.
Headquarters Newark, California
Key people
Peter Rawlinson, CEO, CTO
Derek Jenkins, VP of Design
And now for the interesting bit. Ironically, they are owned by dirty fossil onetime world’s biggest oil producers (now they are far behing the current no 1, the USA!), the Saudis!
Owner Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia (67%)[1][2]
Website LucidMotors
August 27th, 2020 at 2:42 pm
I would bet that the Lucid car, which your own link proclaims a true luxury car, and with a 118 KWH battery, will go for at least TWICE the Model 3′s base price, and the comparison with the Model 3 is inappropriate.
You should compare it to the Model S.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:45 pm
20. Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia owns 67% of Lucid.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:48 pm
Oh, and BTW, this Lucid ‘car’ is just a CONCEPT. Do you know if it will ever be made? When? in 2025? And you think Almighty Tesla, who updates their models virtually all the time, will stand still and wait for it doing nothing? LOL.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:54 pm
23 I cited this in 21. from wikipedia.
August 27th, 2020 at 2:57 pm
Hilarious, some here are desperately clinging to their ICE and try to find reasons (usually imaginary) to badmouth them, yet the biggest FOssil Queen of all, the Saudis (while they currently produce much less oil than the USA does, it is their no 1 product in their economy by far), are putting billions on an EV ‘upstart’ of 13 years and counting.
August 27th, 2020 at 3:01 pm
20) The comparison to the model 3 is because that is TESLA’s most efficient model and the Lucid Air is more efficient than that.
TESLA has only been profitable for 6 months out of 17 years and you heap tons of praise on TESLA…daily. Are you really going to complain about another start up that may or may not be profitable based solely on your imagination of what their business plan is? Really?
The Lucid Air is supposed to start at $62K which puts it clearly in the Model S category. With longer range and a better interior then the Model S. Competition is coming for TESLA and it is an exciting time if you are a BEV fan.
24) As a TESLA fan did you seriously question a company sticking to a production date? That is completely laughable.
August 27th, 2020 at 3:19 pm
20 Larry, Sean mentioned the model 3 in comparison to the Lucid on range alone not that it is in direct competition other than they are both BEVs. However I find it interesting your quick to compare them in price then in a post 10 minutes later say they should not and as everyone here already understood it should be compared to the Model S.
Actually with so few BEVs out there, almost each one is a stand alone and really hard to compare with others. Finding two that fall into similar category of range, size, cost and performance is tough.
BTW Tesla was founded in 2003 and didn’t sell the model S until 2012 so 9 years. Its tough industry to get into.
August 27th, 2020 at 3:45 pm
27 The comparison is apples and oranges totally. TESLA first of all updates the performance, range and efficiency of its models all the time. This CONCEPT (not a real car) from Lucid has a 113 KWH battery, which is at the upper end of even the Model S. It has nothing in common with the mass market 3, and especially its price and units sold, when and if it ever is made. Most likely it will be a small volume competitor to the also small volume Model S. Not the kind of model that has already sold a Million units, like the Model 3- Y.
28 seriously? If you believe that this Chinese-Saudi venture that has been around for 13 years will reverse history and… beat Tesla, maybe you should ask them to invest your meager savings in them. I would sure NOT invest mine.
The comparison of TESLA, the DOminant BEV maker(by far) with this aging *13 years!) upstart is 100% RIDICULOUS.
PS did you hear Musk is now worth 96 BILL $ US and still going higher? FInd how many arab NAtions (the entire nations) have a GDP which is higher than that. Juat for the fun of it in case Joe, Cwolf and Ziggy sees it.
August 27th, 2020 at 4:21 pm
21,23,25. Yes, I was looking it up while you were typing, and my post showed up 5 minutes after yours.
August 27th, 2020 at 4:22 pm
29) It remains that the Lucid air has 4.6 miles per KWH and the Model 3(the most efficient TESLA) is 4.1 miles per KWH. Spin it how you like, but the Lucid air is more efficient than TESLA. But since you want to compare it to the Model S lets do that. The model S is 4.02 Miles per KWH. Thereby the Lucid Air is more efficient then it’s direct competitor the Model S. Maybe Tesla will offer an update, Maybe they won’t. We can only talk about what things are today and not some baseless hypothetical future that you created in your head.
Also…who cares if the Saudis are backing Lucid? There was a time when Elon Musk touted very publicly that the Saudis were going to back TESLA and they could go private. It kicked off an entire SEC investigation that nearly kicked Elon Musk out of his company. I remember you defending Elon Musk then. How convenient for you to forget, but Pepperidge farm remembers.
August 27th, 2020 at 4:23 pm
Hearing stories about all that is coming lies along the lines that the end of the world is near…..; how many times have we heard that?
The news about Lucid distance is what….. known for a month? How many times does someone have to chew a bone before getting something with meat on it!
But besides the many comparisons to provide clarity’, there is always the one person unable to grasp its intent, then dispute it either out of ego or just plain ignorance.
Like the other idiot says, “It is what it is!”
August 27th, 2020 at 4:43 pm
@27 – I recall Tesla’s profits are not operating profits, but the result of the sales of a government construct — CO2 credits.
August 27th, 2020 at 5:08 pm
I hope Lucid’s pursuit of industry-leading cruising range doesn’t sacrifice battery life/durability.
August 27th, 2020 at 5:26 pm
All electric trucks and hauling type vans (not conversion type) should have a range statement including weight limit loaded range. That would give commercial users a real world expectation of capability. What’s the point of buying a commercial vehicle if it’s loaded range is 1/3 of its empty stated range.
August 27th, 2020 at 5:43 pm
Kit (11) as sort of stated in (12) the real wear is at the internal pins. The outer sleeves initial contact with the sprocket is minimal compared to the internal load on the pins. But that is only true until you have chain stretch. Then the outer race scrapes exponentially harder as it expands. So if this transdermalthermonucleardiamond coating eliminates stretch… lol, you’re good for a long long time.
August 27th, 2020 at 5:47 pm
Tesla has the upper hand but not in Europe. For he month of July, Renault is king with over 9000 units sold compared to Tesla’s 1000. There are many EVs to choose from, yet Tesla didn’t even make it in the top 10.
No, this doesn’t mean Tesla’s rein is over in Europe but offers insight of what may transpire in the near future.
August 27th, 2020 at 5:57 pm
L Skellion (36)
From my own experiences repairing chains, I agree pin wear was the problem most of the time. Any lubricant only delays pin wear and actually increases wear when it becomes contaminated. Even with this coating, it cannot overcome the elements over time.
August 27th, 2020 at 6:13 pm
36,38 Makes sense. If the chain hasn’t “stretched,” and the geometry is as it should be, there should be no sliding of the chain on thr sprockets, just rolling.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:03 am
I found a price for the “M” chain @286 Euros and with the complete chain set at 425E, so what’s that, about $300/450. The link also mentioned an up charge of 100 if ordering as an option on a new bike (I think I’d stay with the shaft). Also mentioned was other chains for other bikes pending.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:54 am
40 I wonder what shaft drive cost. If this chain is only a $100 option shaft drive probably is more. I’m not sure if there are any bikes out there with chain drive and shaft as an option so kind of hard to decipher what that cost is.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:09 am
41 BMW doesn’t have a chain vs shaft drive “option.” They have a bunch of different models, some shaft drive and some chain. Then, they have the “C” series scooters, that probably have a belt.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:22 am
I did find this article stating the advantages/differences from Chain, belt and shaft drive. Main take away is chains only have about a 1-4% loss in power, Belts lose about 9-15% and shafts lose 20-25% of the power. My bike is 1832cc so the power loss isn’t a big deal it still has plenty. I also like being able to remove the rear wheel like a car with just 5 lugs no alignment needed. Being that it is the most expensive drive with the highest power loss I’m surprised how many mopeds and scooters use them. I know back in the 80s I had a Suzuki 50cc with shaft drive and the price was on par with other mopeds at the time.
https://www.tvsmotor.com/blog/chain-vs-belt-vs-shaft-drive-motorcycle-final-drive-systems-explained-with-their-characteristics/
August 28th, 2020 at 10:05 am
43. Most recent scooters, from 50cc, up to my 600cc SilverWing, use belt CVTs similar to snowmobiles. I remember some shaft drive mopeds, and Lambretta scooters from 50 or more years ago, but if any recent scooters or small motor bikes use shaft drive, it is very rare.
Your link didn’t mention the “smooth” belt drive used for the CVTs in the scooters, but I suspect it has a lot of power loss.