AD #2908 – Honda Odyssey Impressions; Audi Updates the Q2; Could China Become a Big Pickup Market?
September 1st, 2020 at 11:41am
Listen to “AD #2908 – Honda Odyssey Impressions; Audi Updates the Q2; Could China Become a Big Pickup Market?” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 9:52
0:07 U.S. Traffic Fatalities Up
0:42 Ford Cuts 1,000 White Collar Jobs
1:10 Could China Become a Big Pickup Market?
2:31 Mercedes To Build New GLS In At Least 4 Countries
3:13 Lucid Explains Why It’s Launching with A Sedan
4:02 Audi Updates the Q2 Crossover
5:13 2021 Honda Odyssey Impressions
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U.S. TRAFFIC FATALITIES UP
More bad news related to the pandemic. Traffic fatalities, at least in the U.S., shot up dramatically at the same time that much of the country started to quarantine. Fatalities went up 12% in March. In May, they were up 32% and were up 23% in June, according to the National Safety Council. That’s kind of weird, that traffic fatalities shot up as traffic fell dramatically. The problem is that too many people are driving recklessly. The only good news is that fatalities involving pedestrians and bicyclists are down.
FORD CUTS 1,000 WHITE COLLAR JOBS
Bloomberg reports that Ford is going to cut 1,000 white collar jobs. Supposedly it’s not because of the impact of the Covid pandemic, but here’s our Autoline Insight. At the same time, most employees are working from home, automakers and suppliers have seen their productivity go up. So, it’s become far easier for managers to track who’s actually getting work done, and who isn’t. And that’s what we think these jobs cuts are all about.
COULD CHINA BECOME A BIG PICKUP MARKET?
Could China become a big market for pickup trucks? A couple of automakers are about to jump into the segment. Geely unveiled its first pickup and is building a new assembly plant with the capacity to make them. And General Motors, in a joint venture with SAIC and Guangxi, wants to get in on the action. It’s asking the government for permission to make them. Pickups only account for 2% of the Chinese market, but sales are holding up better than those for sedans and SUVs. Great Wall Motors currently dominates the segment, but let’s watch where this goes. Pickups didn’t go mainstream in the American market until automakers started equipping them with all the features and options that you could get in passenger sedans. If the same thing happens in China, the segment could grow dramatically.
MERCEDES TO BUILD NEW GLS IN AT LEAST 4 COUNTRIES
We’ve got more future product intel from Autoforecast Solutions. And it shows that Mercedes sure expects to sell a lot of GLS sport utes. It’s going to build them in at least four different countries and the next generation of the vehicle will roll out in a quick cadence. In June of 2026, it will go into production in the United States. In July, India starts making them. In August, they start rolling down the line in Indonesia. And Russia starts building them in September. By rolling them out, one month after another, Mercedes will be able to transfer lessons learned from one plant to the other, and that’s how you keep quality up in the launch phase.
LUCID EXPLAINS WHY IT’S LAUNCHING WITH A SEDAN
Over the last several years, consumers are buying more and more crossovers and SUVs instead of sedans. That’s why it’s curious to see EV startup Lucid Motors launch with a sedan as its first vehicle, instead of a crossover. But in an interview with Autoblog, Lucid says it will be able to make a bigger splash with its Air sedan. First off, it says it’s not chasing volume but the company also argues that sedans are lighter and sleeker than crossovers, so its specs are much better. The company is developing an SUV but it won’t start building it until 2023. We’ll learn more about its Air sedan when it is unveiled next week. But what do you think, do you agree with Lucid or is the company making a big mistake by not launching with a crossover first?
AUDI UPDATES THE Q2 CROSSOVER
Audi updated the Q2 compact crossover, which is slightly longer than before but its width and height are the same. The front and rear styling has been refreshed and it looks a bit more aggressive than before. LED headlights are now standard and Matrix LED lights are optional. The interior styling has also been refreshed. The new Q2 is being launched with a 1.5L four-cylinder gasoline engine which can be paired to a six-speed manual or a seven-speed dual clutch transmission. It achieves up to 46 MPG but that’s based on the more lenient NEDC cycle. Two more gasoline engines are also offered, as well as two diesels, which will be available after it launches. And all engines meet Euro 6 emission standards. Customers in Europe can begin ordering the new Q2 this month and pricing starts at 25,000 euros in Germany which is nearly $30,000.
2021 HONDA ODYSSEY IMPRESSIONS
Alright, let’s talk minivans, specifically the 2021 Honda Odyssey, which was just refreshed and the latest vehicle to come through the Autoline Garage. Before we get to some of those changes, there’s a couple of facts about the Odyssey I learned recently that I find interesting. First, in the last 4 years the Odyssey has gained 11% market share in the minivan segment and commands 41% of sales, not including to fleets. A good portion of that increase has to do with the Caravan and Town and Country leaving the market. The second thing is that the Odyssey has the youngest average buyer of all the major minivan players. In fact, only the Civic brings in a younger average buyer to Honda. That kind of makes sense if you think about it. Minivan buyers typically have young kids and parents of young kids also tend to be younger themselves, around 35 to 45.
Since the buyers are similar, what sets minivans apart from one another are features and styling. And for 2021 the Odyssey gets some new looks. The most noticeable is the chrome accent bar across the front is straighter, no longer dipping down into the Honda logo in the grille. There’s also changes to the fog lights and lower fascia, new wheel designs for some trims and an accent piece on the rear tailgate was changed to a glossy black finish. Interior styling stays the same, but there are a few updates. Honda’s driver assist tech is now standard, as is rear seat reminder. Another trick thing it did was to tie the rear seat camera system into the rear seat reminder. So, when you shut off the vehicle the reminder pops up in the cluster, but so does a view of the rear seats on the infotainment screen. The camera is mounted between the two Captain’s chairs on the roof and as a parent, I liked being able to see into the back without having to turn around. The CabinTalk feature is also nice. That’s where a microphone picks up what’s being said in the front and pumps it into the rear through the speaker system. What I didn’t like is I had to tap through the center screen to get to these features, which was distracting while by myself and trying to focus on other things. I would have much rather preferred a couple of buttons on the steering wheel or dash. But the amount of buttons to open the side doors is much more satisfactory. There’s 3 by my count, on the key fob, on the dash and on the B-pillars. It seems like you can never have enough buttons to open a door when you have young children.
But no minivan is complete without some sort of tantrum-reducing technology. And these days that seems to be a screen to look at. The Odyssey has the option for a single roof-mounted, flip-down unit. More screens would be better for stopping arguments over what to watch, but Honda’s MagicSlide 2nd row seats seem to help with that. The Captain’s chairs can move side to side, even coming together in the middle. My kids talked about how much they liked being able to slide together and the seats are very easy to operate, very similar to the bar release for adjusting non-power seats. And it’s a great way to get access to the third row with kid’s seats installed. Honda says it considered 2nd row seats that fold into the floor, but felt most customers would use the feature only a few times a year, so the Odyssey’s seats are removable. For the 2021 model year, removal is said to be even easier because the seat back folds flatter than before. I’ll say as the owner of a later-model Town and Country with Stow ‘n Go seating, I use it more than a couple of times a year, but I’ll say less than a dozen.
Speaking of a dozen, that’s about the same amount of times people hit their head on the tailgate of this vehicle. On our test model, the tailgate opened automatically, but the stopping height seemed really low. I estimate anyone around 5’8” could hit their head. It does open further if you push it, but that seems pointless. It’s like if the sliding doors at the grocery store opened just enough for you to squeeze through. I’d rather just open it by hand. I think I’ve yakety yaked about the Odyssey enough for one day, but I still have more to say, so we’ll get to that tomorrow.
Thanks for watching everyone.
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Comments (49)
September 1st, 2020 at 12:00 pm
The rear door opening on the Honda seems like a cost cutting move. Don’t bother with sensors to detect overhead obstacles which would then stop the door from hitting them. Simply don’t allow the door to open all the way and let the user decide if they want to open it further.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:05 pm
Consumer Reports says the Honda Odyessey is the mjnivan to avoid due to reliability and lower ownership satisfaction.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:10 pm
Ford only announced the cuts in the USA. They did not announce that those jobs were replaced by a person in a low cost country. Ford isn’t the first to figure out that if your Job can be done from home, it can be done from anywhere in the world.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:29 pm
Traffic fatalities up? That seems hard to believe and from my personal experience around where I live, people that were out driving seem to be in no hurry to get anywhere. It really seemed like people slowed down even with the lighter traffic. But I didn’t do much highway driving and I suppose many of the typical congested highways where you couldn’t normally speed might have seen a increase in speed and hence fatalities. I deeper dive into that data would be interesting.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:29 pm
It looks like Chrysler still has the best minivans, the only ones with 2nd and 3rd row seats that fold into the floor.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Last evening, I drove by the scene of a nasty looking crash, with an upside down car. It seems most likely that someone ran a red light, causing the crash. Are people less conscientious about their driving these days?
September 1st, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Maybe FCA/Supplier has the patent for 2nd row minivan seats folding into floor soother makes wont do it.
With less traffic on roads, folks can likely drive faster. Especially if stuck at home and then get some freedom on the road.
I hope Lucid is successful. Ironically Tesla or Toyota could buy them just for their Technology, once proven.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:44 pm
Is the Honda Odyssey tailgate lift height programmable ? Maybe yours was set too low? Just seems odd for Honda to have it only open to that height.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:44 pm
Is the Honda Odyssey tailgate lift height programmable ? Maybe yours was set too low? Just seems odd for Honda to have it only open to that height.
September 1st, 2020 at 12:47 pm
Ford cutting off the deadwood, Tesla is hiring, i much doubt punch clock timecard pushers are welcome, however if you’re willing to go by Elons hours of work you can apply, it helps to be able too think out of the box too, at T3sla ,many are call3d, but few are chosen, but those who do are richly rewarded, and by that i mean the best forward thinking company in the world with the best stock options.
September 1st, 2020 at 1:05 pm
My CR-V has an adjustment for power hatch opening height to allow for garage height etc. I’m sure the Odyssey must have the same. Demo probably previously set by a short person or someone with a low garage door. I’m 6’ and can stand underneath when I have it set for my garage.
September 1st, 2020 at 1:06 pm
Where I live, it seems that with less traffic on the roads, some have given into their little speed demon. The number of vehicular donuts, burn-outs and other types of reckless driving, have sky rocketed! So it’s not surprising that accidents are on the rise too.
IMHO, I think Lucid is using the Air as a standard bearer, but doesn’t plan to sell too many of the them. Much like the S-Class, this vehicle is to show the world what they are all about. I think having an SUV first, it’s weight, range and price may have been the headline. With the sedan first, not only will it be a closer comparable to the Tesla Model S, but we will see home much or how little the SUV gives up to the sedan in in those same three areas.
September 1st, 2020 at 1:11 pm
Wonder if the ’21 Odyssey has a programable rear hatch, where you can set how high up it goes? Might be in a ‘Default’ lower height position.
September 1st, 2020 at 1:14 pm
While the Kia Sedona ranks lower in sales volume I would say it is by far the best looking of all the currently available minivans.
September 1st, 2020 at 2:50 pm
excellent show,thanks
September 1st, 2020 at 3:07 pm
12. I never liked the weird up and down shape along the side of the last several years of Odyssey, but it’s probably the best driving current minivan. Unless my ’89 Caravan has a major problem, I’m unlikely to buy another minivan, but if I did, it would probably be the “new” Voyager, a de-contented Pacifica with a base MSRP of ~$27K, a bargain in today’s market.
September 1st, 2020 at 3:41 pm
Seriously? A consulting firm is saying they have definitive knowledge of when new factories will be starting production of new models SIX years from now? That’s hard to swallow. And, perhaps Mercedes Benz needs to review corporate security if plans that far out are leaking to the press.
September 1st, 2020 at 3:41 pm
There have been a lot more bad accidents around my area. Many have occurred at the many road construction sites that began mo this ago. I believe they are a major contributor.
September 1st, 2020 at 3:47 pm
My neighbor is interested in buying a 3 row suv with few options and leather seats. They are not into vans.
I’d like to hear your recommendations. It will be mostly used around town. Their long trips are only 3-4 times a year and average 500 miles one way.
Anxious to see how many recommendations agree with mine.
September 1st, 2020 at 3:55 pm
17 I’d recommend a van, but if they’ve gotta have an SUV, to be more fashionable, probably a Kia or Hyundai, Telluride or Palisade.
September 1st, 2020 at 3:56 pm
…or maybe the Subaru, whatever the 3 row one ia called.
September 1st, 2020 at 3:58 pm
19 I think it’s Ascent
September 1st, 2020 at 4:08 pm
17 From your description, they sure do not need an SUV, not even a crossover, but I guess crossovers are the new wagons, so they can get a Subaru like everybody else, or a Honda CR-V. If they do lots of suburban miles they could consider the Hybrid ones.
4 I was also surprised by the results, I would expect accidents and fatalities to go down, but because the MILES driven plummeted, maybe the fatalities PER MILE driven, NOT the absolute numbers, went up. In the early days of CV the streets were empty, but I had no urge to drive fast as before the CV.
Here in the old country it;s the same story, everybody drives 50% above the speed limit (=60km on the old coastal road), and even then there is always some jerk in a much weaker car than the one I drive who wants to go even faster and tailgates me. In the past there were references here to jerks driving BMWs, of all cars, but yesterday morning it was a chubby new Merc small SUV GLC with an even smaller engine (a 2.0 vs my 3.0 Diesel) who was on my back. I accelerated like a Saturn V rocket *a thing you can do only with the diesel or a much more powerful AMG gas version) to teach the stupid, annoying punk a lesson. In fact, there are a ton of Mercs in this relative affluent summer resort, but they are usually much smaller than an E class.
September 1st, 2020 at 4:11 pm
Sean: please check out this video on adjusting the rear hatch of the Odyssey. Its for a 2018 but I bet its the same for the 2021.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqUnGzcaeX8
September 1st, 2020 at 4:13 pm
I Don’t mind the styling of the Odyssey, but this one, both inside and outside, was like a 30s movie, they have not discovered color yet. They should call all these lame colorless vans “FIFTY SHADES OF GRAY”. Still, if yiou are sentenced to drive a minivsn, the Odyssey is by far the best choice, and if not, get a TOyota Sienna and at least have a reliable wagon. I’d not touch the cheap, unreliable Chrysler vans with their uncomfortable seats. And if you mention your 80s Caravan, we rented one of these in Houston and I had to sit in the middle row, and it was SHEER TORTURE, no leg room at all. no room of any kind either.
September 1st, 2020 at 4:35 pm
17, skip the CRV (it only has two rows), and check out a gently used Chevy Suburban or GMC Yukon XL. They ride great, mileage isn’t too bad considering their size, and they will be able to tote around the whole family and luggage or sports gear in comfort. If they find a mid-level trim, they can have the seats redone with a Katzkin leather package and enjoy their family vehicle. We had two of these when I grew up and they were just the ticket for our family of four kids plus a St. Bernard.
September 1st, 2020 at 4:47 pm
Thanks for the replies.
I only ask why them?
They have a Highlander in mind and I though the Ford Explorer would also work for them.
These folks do need 3 rows. Every day it will be filled with kids going to swimming practice and all the gear, plus busses school kids home who stay over for extra classes and school sports. They give their vehicles a good workout almost every day.
September 1st, 2020 at 5:01 pm
21. By “accelerating like a Saturn V,” do you mean the cloud of of kerosene smoke when you floor it?
23. In CR’s reliability survey, the now-discontinued Grand Caravan is more reliable than the Odyssey. The Sienna is the only mnivan with reliability as good as “above average.”
Yeah, the short versions of ’80s Caravan/Voyager with 3 rows were lacking in leg room. The long one, which arrived in 1987, was much better.
September 1st, 2020 at 5:10 pm
25. The Highlander is a good vehicle. The hybrid gets very good gas mileage for a vehicle like that, but can get pricey. The 3rd row is very cramped, but should be fine for non-too-big kids, and for shorter trips.
September 1st, 2020 at 5:28 pm
17,25. Can you ask them why they are not “into” vans? From what you describe, a van is what would serve them best, with more room, both for people and stuff, similar gas mileage, and probably lower price, similarly equipped. Is it just the “image,” or is there something else that I’m not aware of, unless they plan to go off-roading?
September 1st, 2020 at 5:37 pm
Lucid is not Nikola Motors who sells video images. Lucid appears to making a real product (not one I’m in the market.) So Lucid needs to make and sell the ‘Air’ and not follow the Nikola ‘promise anything but deliver nothing.’
September 1st, 2020 at 5:50 pm
29 – Just because Nikola is not ready to start production yet does not mean that they are not a real company that will have real products. The purchasing agents at the large companies that have signed up for hundreds of their trucks aren’t stupid people. They obviously feel confident in the product. How many other companies can you name that have a five year backlog of orders before their production plant is even ready? The hedge fund managers that invested long before Nikola went public are also not easily fooled.
Forget the hype and the internet gossip and check out the product, the plan and the refueling systems they have planned. Tesla is not the only company that can be a catalyst for significant change.
September 1st, 2020 at 5:54 pm
Hey John,
Great show on Autoline This Week. The interview with Volvo’s CEO was great. He was refreshingly candid. Volvo is on a roll with great product and consumer-pleasing high residual values. Being one of only three brands to increase sales in the first half of the year in the US market underscores the value of their hard work.
Thanks for another fascinating interview!
September 1st, 2020 at 9:53 pm
Volvo CEO also knows what every other car maker knows (bar Tesla) that they need to sell (not just offer for sale) WAY more BEV and plugin hybrids to have any chance of surviving future emission targets. Volvo is only launching its more hybrid-bev range now and unless they can beat or at least compete with Tesla, they cannot go crying to lawmakers and say give us another break. As Volvo is also owned by the Chinese, there can be no bailouts. BMW-Merc-VW are also facing the same tsunami.
September 1st, 2020 at 9:57 pm
If Lucid can offer a ModelS competitor then there are plenty of current ModelS owners and current BMW7/Sclass owners who want to move to BEV (or more to one) and worry about all the Tesla reliability stories. Many of these 7-Sclass owners keep their barges longer than most and see no BEV offer from BMW or Merc. Even Lexus owners have little options bar another hybrid.
September 1st, 2020 at 10:08 pm
I have to laugh at Detroit thinking Truck sales in China could be much larger. Detroit is used to selling inefficient large expensive pickups and sales are only in North America. Perhaps Chinese superrich might buy one but China is committed to fixing air smog and your superthirsty US pickup (assuming Trump does not offend the government even more than it has) will find as many customers as the Corvette does ie niche.
September 1st, 2020 at 10:10 pm
32. Volvo and VW are small players in the US, compared to the rest of the world, so if they end up in trouble, they will be looking for help somewhere other than the US. BMW and Merc are fairly big in the US, but I doubt will get bailed out in the US, except maybe by the states of South Carolina and Alabama.
September 2nd, 2020 at 5:55 am
26 The Phrase was not mine. I have no experience how strongly the Saturn V accelerated. THe phrase that the Merc E 320 Bluetec accelerated like a Saturn V rocket was in one of the more comprehensive road tests, most likely at Car and Driver. Don’t ask me about how the exaust smelled, I could not tell. THe only time I notice and I don’t like the smell of diesel fuel is after I park the car and get out of it, and not always, about one in 10 100 times.
September 2nd, 2020 at 6:03 am
28 I can understand why people use vans only when they really have to, and prefer wagons and crossovers (same thing) and SUVs instead.
A Van is not a personal vehicle, when you drive it it looks like you are a low-level employee ferrying people around. People want their cars to be like their clothes, and make them look good, or at least better than they look without a car, not like a cargo or passenger van.
On a similar note, the top model RR Phantom, when you drive that, you always think the others believe you are not the owner, but some rich guys chauffeur. THe other ROllses may be driver’s crs, but they are far inferior than the Phantom, so there is the problem.
Mike KAresh, who runs a reliability database (True Alpha? I used to register my own cars there a few years ago and report repairs, if any), told me the Phantom was the only car he EVER drove which made him feel like a “potentate”. I replied that it would make me feel like the modestly paid Chauffeur of a Potentate. BTW his mother owns an E class, but not the Diesel, and is very impressed with the car.
September 2nd, 2020 at 6:06 am
29 I imagine, since the Saudis own 66-67% of Lucid, that their products would be endorsed by the Saudi Royal Family and all the Terrorists it gives billions to every year. Like AL Qaida.
September 2nd, 2020 at 6:09 am
33 The fact you call the BMW “MAgnificent 7″ Series a “barge” betrays your UTTER IGNORANCE of
1. WHat a barge is and how it handles, and
2. How the SEVEN handles (hint: Takes turns like if it is on RAILS. Utterly UNflappable).
You would be far more accurate calling the otherwise very nice LEXUS LS460 a “barge”. NOT the 7.
September 2nd, 2020 at 6:11 am
35 VOlvo has a 0.5% negligible share in the US, but VW has always around 4.0%, EIGHT times bigger share than CHinese owned VOlvo-Geely. The VW Group is as big as the very successful SUBARU in the US.
September 2nd, 2020 at 8:53 am
37. This is a great looking personal use van. It even has color, inside and out.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kitgerhart/50166128991/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
September 2nd, 2020 at 9:05 am
40. VW group, including VW brand, Audi and Porsche has 4-5% market share in the US, but more than 25% in Europe, 18-19% in China, and probably 15%+ in South America. That’s why I say VW is a small player in the US, relatively speaking.
September 2nd, 2020 at 9:53 am
42 Compared to Toyota or GM, but you grouped it with VOlvo which is not visible by the naked eye at a moribound 0.5-0.6%
Also 26 those reliability surveys have lost their meanings when buyers who are computer illiterate or refuse to read the manual complain about i-drives and the like. And even if the Odyssey has real reliability issues, the interior quality and materials and design are far better than the Caravan’s
September 2nd, 2020 at 10:04 am
Today I got a lot done. In one of my chores I had to send a registered letter *about $6) and I asked them how much the stamp for a local simple letter is, and it was 1.9 Euros, almost $2.20. Then I asked them how much a simple letter to the US is, and it was not much higher at 2 Euros. These prices are four and two times what the US Post office charges (forever stamps). Maybe we should bite the bullet in the US as well and find a permanent solution for the USPO woes instead of them coming every year to Congress, barefoot and bankrupt, to ask for more billions.
Before I entered the PO, I had to wait outside, and had parked my Merc on the narrow one way street with cars on both sides. A small hatch seemed to have trouble width-wise and as I went to see, I stumbled on the irregular step in the pavement and fell, hitting both knees, one elbow, one ankle and one knuckle (maybe the only one who may have broken, the others were superficial wounds). I used some of the sanitizer on them and later at home a more appropriate solution (Betadine). My evening swim will provide more iodine and salt. It turned out there was ample room for that hatch to drive through.
I also did several scans, one to MI to vote absentee for the first time, and the ELectric Utility came to my place at noon and worked for two hours to fix the cable that fell on my metal fence when the idiot neighbor cut a tree which caused the cable to fall of the column etc. (I still had electricity all these months, the fence metal spikes had not pierced the cable, but the weight of the large tree trunk has bent the fence a bit, and is still on it)
September 2nd, 2020 at 10:21 am
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/02/teslas-largest-outside-shareholder-reduces-holding-citing-portfolio-restrictions.html
Just checked my holdings (had not for a few days and noticed that markets had continued their relentless record after record close, so I went to the CNBC site for an explanation, and it had this crumb for the resident Tesla haters and/or Deniers:
September 2nd, 2020 at 10:54 am
43. To use CR’s reliability survey results, it is best to look at the categories, and you can decipher what matters to you. Yeah, the composite doesn’t do that.
If you want to compare interior design, you should compare the Odyssey with Pacifica, not with Caravan which cost thousands less.
September 2nd, 2020 at 12:06 pm
48 I liked the exterior of the old Pacifica, it did a good job disguising a minivan as an upscale looking wagon. I have not seen its interior, but then it has been discontinued for a while now. But I bet you refer to the new Pacifica, a clear minivan, whose styling I don’t like much.