AD #2936 – European EV Sales Taking Off; Jeep Running Out of Steam?; Mercedes Testing Electric Off Roader

October 13th, 2020 at 11:43am

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Runtime: 8:18

0:07 EVs Gain Significant Market Share in Europe
1:03 New Car Sales Recovering in China
1:42 Is Jeep Running Out of Steam?
3:15 Audi Forming New EV Venture in China
3:45 Mercedes Testing Electric Off-Roader
4:47 Bosch & Mercedes Test Self-Parking Cars
6:10 Genesis’ Smart Posture Feature

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40 Comments to “AD #2936 – European EV Sales Taking Off; Jeep Running Out of Steam?; Mercedes Testing Electric Off Roader”

  1. GM Veteran Says:

    I think the Auto Forecast Solutions report on the next Grand Cherokee’s debut is incorrect. Automotive News, in their Future Product Pipeline, report that it goes into production in the third quarter of 2021 and will be on sale before the end of the year. This jives with what I have heard from friends that work on the project at FCA.

  2. GM Veteran Says:

    To be able to use the extra 20% capacity in a parking garage, wouldn’t all of the vehicles in it have to have this self-parking capability? So, this advantage is quite a ways off.

    Can you imagine how many drivers without this feature will be ticked off when they get to their car and see another car with the feature shoe-horned into a space next to theirs, making it very difficult to enter their car? You just know it will happen!

  3. GM Veteran Says:

    OK, one more. Does anyone know what the number 1 selling EV in China is? No, Larry, its not a Tesla. Its a GM vehicle! Its a Wuling branded mini EV that costs $4,500, or about $6,000 loaded. It has a 125 mile range and is selling like hotcakes to young urban commuters. It doesn’t even qualify for China’s national incentives because of its range estimate. But, it doesn’t matter. I guess old automakers can learn new tricks!

  4. Don Sherman Says:

    pronunciation of Porsche’s illustrious Taycan electric sedan is TIE CON, not TIE CAN.

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    Sean in reference to the Jeep sales drop you may want to dig into the recent increase in RV sales for 2020. Companies like Airstream saw an 11% increase back in May and Marathon coach is expecting a 30% increase by the end of this year. Covid has really helped the RV industry and the Jeep brand has very few models that can tow much more than 3500lbs. This may or may not have had some influence on Jeep sales. But anyone in the market for an SUV may have opted for a bit larger vehicle with more towing capacity.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 Small EVs like that would be great for urban dwellers in the US, if there was a place to charge them. Unfortunately, America is a desert, as far as charging infrastructure for apartment residents.

  7. MJB Says:

    @2 – I suspect that parking garages using this technology will have designated “autonomous only” parking areas. So there should be no worries about shoehorning.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 I guess Jeep will have that covered with the upcoming Ram pickup based Wagoneer, but may be losing out now.

    Grand Cherokee has a tow rating of 6200 pounds, but something like a Suburban would probably work better for towing something near that weight.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Who will be responsible for the damage when these automatic parking cars run into things, or each other? Will the car warranty cover the damage?

  10. wmb Says:

    That EV percentage increase suggests that, while it may be slow then expected, folks interest in EV’s is growing. Which makes since, for I can’t imagine folks swiftly moving from horse and buggy to automobiles over night. Also when you consider the cost of a manufacturer of horse drawn buggies and carriages, having to “pony up” the finances to build an automobile, the cost for them in sure was astronomically! Questions of whether this horseless carriage would catch on and whether or not to invest in them, sounds a lot like what modern manufacturers may have been discussing in their boardrooms as this electric craze seems to be taking off. Time will tell and as in the end days of the horse and buggy maker, no one wants to be the company that didn’t choose wisely!

  11. Larry D. Says:

    DUUUUH, GM Vet, of course the best selling BEV (do you ALSO include Plug-ins? That would be CHEATING, of course) in CHINA is not YET a Tesla. It is a VASTLY INFERIOR vehicle to any Tesla, even the Model 3, and priced well below the Model 3, so WHO CARES???? OF course a cheap POS usually sells more copies than ROlls ROyce (the Rolls of BEVs).

    AND the SHanghai Gigafactory has BARELY started AND still is not producing the SUBCOMPACT BEV that Musk has planned for CHina and Europe.

    SO stay tuned. In the meanwhile, GM Vet, you and KIt bust your heads trying to understand why TSLA is twice as valuable as even the once Mighty TOYOTA, which toyota used to be 6 times more valuable than GM.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 The Model 3 is the Dodge Charger, not the Rolls-Royce of BEVs.

  13. GM Veteran Says:

    11 – Well, the best selling model was the Model 3, until September. Its now #2. That’s all. No cheating, no plug-ins bolstering the sales stats. Apparently, the Chinese consumer simply sees the value and is buying the Wuling EV. You don’t know anything about the model, so how would you know if its a cheap POS or VASTLY INFERIOR?

    Its Okay Larry. Tesla can’t be #1 all the time. Thank goodness they have faithful enthusiasts like yourself that continue to prop up their stock price so they can continue developing new models without having to make a profit, (something Toyota does quite well).

    And, I am not making the assumption that you are a stockholder. Just that you are CLEARLY a Tesla fanboy.

  14. XA351GT Says:

    GM Veteran @ # 13 Not enough of a fanboy to part with his money and actually buy one. Just sit back and tell everyone else how stupid they are for not buying one. Circular logic at it’s finest.

  15. GM Veteran Says:

    True dat!

  16. ArtG Says:

    7. If it’s on the honor system, IDK. I saw an Audi Q7 parked in a spot designated “Compact Cars Only.”

  17. ArtG Says:

    14 +1. Classic “Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is.”

  18. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    5) That was the exact situation I was just looking at for myself yesterday. I was thinking it would be good to have a Jeep and do some traveling around. I would need a Trailer and that is where the problem came in. A max towing of 3500 puts me in a small teardrop trailer. Basically a covered bed with a shelf of kitchen accessories on the outside. I can learn to cook in the snow and rain LOL. I am not going to be happy with such a set up so the Jeep was out for me.

  19. Larry D. Says:

    14 you illiterate yahoo, you don’t even know how to spell “its” instead of your clueless ‘it’s”.

    And you are TRULY MORONS all those who believe that to praise something I also need to BUY it.

    GO short Tesla shares and lose the rest of your underwear, idiots.

  20. Larry D. Says:

    19 what amazes me with all you LOSERS is how there is this ONLY AMERICAN Auto company who is DOMINATIND the BEV segment all over the PLANET, the exact opposite of the LOSERS in Detroit, BANKRUPT GM and Chrysler AND moribound FORD, and INSTEAD Of you LOSERS CHEERING for this AMERICAN WINNER, you hate its guts every time it succeeds, and INSTEAD you hope that… OSAMA MOTORS LUCID does well instead, even tho it is funded 67% by the Saudis.

    You are TRULY DESPICABLE. You make me PUKE.

  21. Larry D. Says:

    oh, and don’t forget to cheer those OTHER major league losers, the CRIMINALS at NIKOLA MOTORS GM FOOLISHLY got in bed with and is going to lose billions from, AND the CHinese Commie owned VOLVO, owned by GEELY that this utter fool GM vet cheers for.

    Get a brain, you losers.

  22. GM Veteran Says:

    Whoa. A nerve has been touched.

    I have to agree though. If I believed in something as strongly as you do in Tesla, I would definitely be a stockholder. Look at how much money you could have made since you first started espousing the virtues of Tesla in this Comments section. If only . . .

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 It depends on which Jeep. The Grand Cherokee has a tow rating of 6200 pounds, and the Gladiator, 7650. Wrangler is only 3500. I’m not sure why the big difference between Wrangler and Gladiator.

  24. GM Veteran Says:

    Come on now, D. You know better than that. I don’t hate Tesla, I just don’t think its nearly as great as the fanboys think it is. They have accomplished a lot, but the track record is far from perfect. And the profits made by those loser domestic automakers and the dividends they have paid to stockholders for years isn’t on the radar screen for Tesla.

    You love to pan Volvo, but they are a successful company with many, many happy owners. Very much like Tesla, actually.

  25. ArtG Says:

    Actually, Larry, it’s the illiterate losers that can’t disagree with different points of view without name-calling and demeaning others. I guess that if the President of the U.S. can do it, so can you.

    I’m a moderator on 3 automotive forums. The kind of behavior that you exhibit here would have gotten you banned a long, long time ago. It puzzles me why it’s allowed to continue here without reprimand of any kind.

    Oh, and BTW, you misspelled ‘dominating.’ Also your caps lock appear to be getting stuck intermittently, also like the prez.

  26. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 Yes it depends on model which is why I said most Jeeps are under 3500lbs. The average weight of a travel trailer is 5200lbs empty so with gear tanks filled etc. its about 6700lbs.

    The Gladiator has the same powertrain as the Wrangler but the increase towing capacity I believe is more about wheel base. Gets too squirrely to try and stop 6500lbs with a short vehicle like a wrangler. Yea trailer brakes help but sway would be devastating too.

  27. Sean Wagner Says:

    Heads up. Pronunciation. Porsche Taycan.

    Khan. Porsche Tie Khan.

    Have seen a couple round here lately. Still, the Model 3 was Switzerland’s best-selling vehicle in September bar none. The last time a US car made top of the list must have been 70 years ago, give or take.

    And that’s without EV-specific inventives.

    Incidentally, I think the ultra-cheap little Wuling’s success in China is well worth noting. These things are coming in one form or another.

    For anyone wanting to travel down the Italian peninsula virtually, following in the steps of a hardy explorer and his brand new VW ID.3, have a gander:
    https://www.goingelectric.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=393&t=60344&start=100

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 The only towing I do is not over ~1000 pounds, (with a vehicle tow rating of zero), but if I were towing even 5000 pounds on a regular basis, I’d rather use a Suburban than a GC, even though Jeep is “officially” rated for 6200.

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    20 Larry everyone here would probably stomach your posts. All you need to do is remove all your useless adjectives. Its not Tesla that the group detests. Its your constant biased cheerleading and distain for all the other American automakers. Tesla has a clear advantage over the traditional automakers. Technology is changing the industry and how quickly consumers flock to EVs is still yet to be seen. Your constant comparison of Tesla to GM is like comparing Microsoft to Apple. When mobile computing started to take off Apple was the leader after years of Microsoft dominating the industry. Its easier to become the next new thing (fresh face) when technology changes. Microsoft although still quite large and successful like GM still appears to be old school and behind Apple. However Microsoft has grown revenues at a rate of 10% annually over the last 10 years and maintains 30% market share. Doesn’t mean they are losers or stupid but they were not the first to successfully market a mobile MP3 player like Apple did.
    GM much like Microsoft has many loyal and happy customers. Will GM ever dominate the EV market? Who knows but when your on top you got no where to go but down..

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 Interesting analogy with Microsoft/Apple. Windows dominates Mac about 9 to 1, but Windows phone never really got off the ground. That other company, google came along and now has about 80% of the smart phone operating system business, but Apple makes a lot of money with their ~20%, because they sell all of the hardware using it.

    Windows dominates the PC operating system world, probably because the hardware is much cheaper. Apple does a good job of making money, because they sell hardware with both Mac and mobile.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30 sorry about the off-topic rambling

  32. Lambo2015 Says:

    30 Yea but you see the similarity. Tesla doesn’t have to deal with an identity crisis of being a traditional ICE builder and new age EV builder. GM has a long checkered history of good and bad times. Its very easy for Tesla and any other new EV builder to pop up and appear to be a new way of doing things. Every consumer likes the new an improved version of the same old thing. Tesla has the advantage to be that new thing and not having to compete in the ICE market at all. Meanwhile all the other traditional builders need to maintain their ICE vehicles that account for 98% of the US sales and still be prepared to offer a good EV as sales increase. That’s a much harder task then just deciding to only sell EVs. But as many new start ups are finding out, Car building isn’t that easy as even Tesla found out. Hence all the mergers. Companies that have a lead in the electronics and battery think they can just make an EV and it isn’t that simple. Anyway My point was if Tesla had a ICE line of vehicles it would actually hurt them and take away that “speciality” feeling they benefit from. Take away their powertrain and compared on car building alone Tesla is average at best.

  33. cwolf Says:

    32) Take away Tesla powertrains and their cars are sub-par at best! It is their practice of shoving cars out the door at the sake of quality is the blunder that will allow others to catch up, then maybe surpass them in the near future if they don’t change their ways.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 Agreed. The real test will be to see what per cent of the EV market Tesla has, in maybe 25 years, when EVs make up half of the total US market. In other markets, they will need smaller cars, which they will no doubt make at some point.

    As well has Tesla has done, and I like their products in most ways, they lag behind the “traditional” car companies in build quality, but also in some NVH issues like road and wind noise. My friend who recently bought a Model S finds it not a lot quieter at 80 mph on the interstate than the Prius it replaced. The Tesla, obviously, is much faster, and much “cooler” in many ways, but it cost 3 or 4 times as much. There is no comparison in the highway noise level of a Prius and other near $80-100K cars like S-Class.

  35. cwolf Says:

    I doubt there are any major manufacturers lacking fit and finish, loose interior parts or have roof panels tearing off, like Tesla does regularly.
    Others are also beginning to sell credits which will effect Tesla’s profits from selling theirs. Tesla,indeed, has a tougher road ahead, especially when others acquire batteries that goes the distance. They don’t have to be better than, just ICE comparable.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    35 Sure, that’s so right. Wall Street has it all wrong, with the VALUE of TESLA being twice that of TOYOTA and 12 TIMES what GM was worth before it went BANKRUPT.

    Keep spreading your gossips and LIES and whistling in the Dark a TESLA DOMINATES and CONTINUES to DOMINATE the WORLD BEV MArket and ELon Musk is now worth more than 100 BILLION (not MILION!).

    Pathetic losers… instead of CHEERING the ONLY AMERICAN SUCCESS STORY they make up crap aginst it and… support OSAMA MOTORS (LUCID, 67% SAUDI OWNED), the CRIMINALS at Nikola, and COMMIE OWNED VOLVO with its embarassingly TINY MARKET SHARE of…. 0.5% in the US (and make {Polestar a tenth of this tiny share!)

    LAUGHABLE.

    PS as for Kit’s ‘friend’s’ alleged paint issues with his model S, Ask him why he did not use the WARRANTY to FIX it. I bet because it was, if anything, an UTTERLY UNIMPORTANT issue compared with the BLISS of owning a vehicle that you will NEVER BEGIN TO IMAGINE how GOOD it is.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    36 I don’t know if my friend has tried to get the paint redone, but from my experience, having such things fixed on warranty can make it worse, rather than better. He is in Washington state, about 2500 miles away, and we don’t see each other constantly like when we were in college together. My guess is that he will let it go with the paint. Here are his comments from an email he sent soon after taking delivery of the car.

    “It’s no more luxurious than a Prius, and not much quieter. Cabin storage is less than that of the Prius. Rearview mirror visibility is poor.

    Headrest is fixed. It’s OK, I guess, but I’d prefer to be able to turn it around as I did on the Prius V.

    Paint is fancy, but clearcoat application is amateurish and appears to have been done in a dusty environment. I have done much better in my garage.”

    For context, his Prius was a V, the wagony one, which explains its having more room than the Model S. The painting he does in his garage is model airplanes, which he paints very well.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Some more, mostly positive comments from an actual Model S owner who, FWIW, has never been loyal to brands. He has had many different brands of cars over the years.

    “Tesla systems are better integrated and much more sophisticated than the Prius’s. Cruise control follows the person ahead down to zero speed, as at a stoplight, then resumes going forward when he does. That should be nice in traffic. Cruise control has other modes which seem wonderful, but which I have not yet mastered. For example, the car knows the speed limit, and can track it (with user-set offset). Autosteer is, curiously, only a minor convenience compared to the cruise control.

    Steering wheel controls are right where I hold the steering wheel. Consequently, I am often awakened by the radio coming on.

    There should be no range anxiety. We got the long range version, about 375 miles. I passed four Tesla fast charging stations on the way home from Portland. There are now plenty of these stations on any road we travel except I-94 across Montana and No. Dakota, and a string of stations is coming there. Stations near here had plenty of vacant stalls yesterday. I’ve heard they often are at capacity in South California. The machine is currently being charged by the charger that came with the house.”

  39. veh Says:

    If the forum isn’t going to be moderated, could there at least be a “block user” function? Larry’s insults really make this forum unpleasant to read.

  40. JWH Says:

    #39 – Agree with veh – Would be an excellent feature. The infamous mr d is a severe blemish on this forum.