AD #2939 – Defender Is Impressive Off-Road; Global Sales Showing Signs of Life; Fisker Taps Magna to Build Ocean

October 16th, 2020 at 12:04pm

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Listen to “AD #2939 – Defender Is Impressive Off-Road; Global Sales Showing Signs of Life; Fisker Taps Magna to Build Ocean” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 11:10

0:23 Global Sales Showing Signs of Life
1:03 Mahle Not Giving Up on Combustion Engines
2:11 Embraer Jumps into VTOL Segment
3:26 Fisker Taps Magna to Build Ocean SUV
4:34 Cadillac Updates MagneRide Technology
5:12 Cruise Receives OK to Test AVs With No One On Board
6:08 Renault Shows Off Megane eVision Concept
7:10 Japanese OEMs Embrace Bolder Styling
8:33 Land Rover Defender Is Impressive Off-Road

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53 Comments to “AD #2939 – Defender Is Impressive Off-Road; Global Sales Showing Signs of Life; Fisker Taps Magna to Build Ocean”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    Νothing of interest today, so no comment except to say that you continue to assume that sales will suffer, instead of GROW, in the COVID world, as people SHUN Mass transit, Trains and Planes, in favor of the safety of their vehicle, and do MORE, not LESS, miles with it. AND data has shown that BOTH rich AND poor do this, those who can afford it will buy new cars, and those who can’t, as well as economic literate multimillionaires like you know who, who understand the benefits of DEPRECIATION, will keep buying USED.

    Speaking of COVID, while US deaths have come down, EUROPE is showing VERY worrisome 2nd wave indications. France had 20,000 cases in just 24 hours, Germany who did very well in the winter-spring is alarmed by the increase, and my old country, a success even bigger than Germany, has now over 500 cases a day, while in spring-summer it only had less than 400 deaths TOTAL. THese days nursing homes show many cases and some deaths. Still, compared to Belgium which has a similar population and almost 10,000 dead, we are doing UNBelievably well, and it is a credit to the Center-Right Govt and the excellent prof of Epidemiology to whom people LISTENED in the past, but less so today.

  2. Larry D. Says:

    1 oh and ps, if anybody cares, the UK has even bigger COVID problems and is partially shutting down again.

  3. bradley cross Says:

    Cadillac should make magneride standard in all their vehicles to make them stand out and then advertise that fact and compare it with Lincoln, etc.

    Lets hope Fisker is finally going to produce something real that is interesting. Perhaps Magna will enable other startups to design vehicles and produce them quickly without too much concern for powertrain.

    Looks like Cruise is progressing nicely. If they can come to market in some way, it will grab some attention.

  4. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Larry – I thinks that’s the longest ‘no comment’ I’ve ever seen.

  5. Will Slate Says:

    Magna and now Foxconn

    are bringing serious manufacturing credibility to an industry hurt by delays in bringing much-hyped products (Nikola, Lucid, Rivian, Bollinger, Nio…) to market.

    The pressure on those start-ups and on legacy OEMs has to be enormous.

  6. Kevin A Says:

    Larry, What part of Greece do you live in?

  7. Larry D. Says:

    4 What about the SUBSTANCE of my comment re Sales, Shaun? You still believe the so-called experts and forecasters, or your common sense?

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 Good one, Sean.

    1 Some of us do fewer miles. I no longer going to restaurants, saving 14 trips a week. The volunteer work I have been doing isn’t happening, which will save about 200 miles a week from January through April. Yeah, I sometimes go for drives, just to go for drives, but my total mileage is still down substantially.

    As far as new car sales, yeah, they might not be down that much, because the tens of millions of permanently unemployed restaurant workers, etc. didn’t buy new cars anyway.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 Cadillac has been changing their pricing philosophy a little, at least with the sedans, in trying to keep the base price more reasonable. Base CT4 and CT5 are $33K and $37K respectively. Making Magneride standard, at least on those cars, might cost too much. On other models, and upper trim levels of the sedans, yeah, that should help sell cars.

  10. ChuckGrenci Says:

    1,8 Insurance companies wouldn’t be offering discounts if claims hadn’t decreased (due to reduced mileage driven mostly). Some discounts are due to copy-catting but the base reason is reduced claims. Now, some of the morons that are exhibiting speed issues are softening the reduction curve but overwhelming reduction is still more of factor in rates.

  11. Larry D. Says:

    8 It’s not about you. My comment was about the entire market, not the one exception that proved the rule. The world does not rotate about you. When I comment I always mean what the market, not any individual, will do.

  12. Bob Wilson Says:

    Looks like a Tesla, Long Range Plus, Model S cost $69,420. Specs: 402 mi range; 155 mph top speed, and; 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. It comes with Autopilot standard.

  13. Larry D. Says:

    10 In Spain, low income citizens that had to take the train, REFUSE to do so and have gone to the junkyards and bought beaters for a pittance, $1-2k, and use them for their long commutes. I mention this again to show Kit that he was quite wrong to assume that the poor could not afford a car. Cars are among the most, if not THE most, affordable machines, all over the world, if you use your brains and not forbid going used.

  14. Larry D. Says:

    13 train or bus etc to work.

  15. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Larri – Well, are you lumping new and used sales together? If so, yes, I think sales can grow even in a COVID world. But that’s not what we reported today or most days for that matter. In the case of new car sales, I’ll continue to believe the ‘so-called’ experts and forecasters that numbers will keep suffering because that’s what my common sense is telling me too.

  16. merv Says:

    that land rover was very nice and some pretty cool tech

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 My point about car sales, is that the people most affected by the current recession/depression didn’t buy new cars anyway. The 70-80% who still have the income they did before, will still buy cars in similar numbers, and people in that group are the ones who bought new cars before covid.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    That Land Rover has impressive off-road capabilities, that about 1 tenth of one percent of buyers will ever use. Most LR buyers buy for the image, even though the vehicle is likely to spend a lot of time in the repair shop.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    13 Where do all of these people buying cars from junk yards in Spain park them? The time I was in Spain, parking seemed to be at quite a premium, at least in the cities. Even in not-too-big Torremolinos, where I spent the most time, there wouldn’t be adequate parking if the number of cars increased a lot. The big cities would be much worse.

  20. Ken Says:

    How fucking nuts is San Francisco to let anyone operate a completely driverless vehicle on public streets. Vehicles malfunction, electronics get glitches. Who here hasn’t had every vehicle they owned experience some sort of breakdown – radio, climate control, GPS . . . .

    It is beyond dangerous and stupid to let a 3,000 killing machine run loose on the streets without someone at the helm ready to take control.

    If I were driving down the street and saw a driverless car I think it a runaway and use my car to push it off the road for the publics safety.

  21. Drew Says:

    @15 – Excellent Sean. Do you think “LD”… errr…. “Larri” errr… “Lairy“ (rhymes with hairy) got it? My buddies and I use “LD” as code for learning disabled. If the code applies, perhaps we should be more patient and sensitive. If the code does not apply, I eagerly await a thoughtful tech to disable LD’s cap lock.

  22. Drew Says:

    Kit, if we are driving less, our cars will last longer. So, it’ll take some very compelling technology for many people to prematurely assume a big new car payment… another counter-argument to LD.

  23. WineGeek Says:

    Sean what about how the Defender is on paved roads comfort, acceleration, etc., etc.

    Not many people who buy a Defender will be “off- roading” in streams, I am sure. What about reliability JLR is noted for its lousy quality and dependability. Any improvements there?

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 Yep, true, and people like me who buy cars, just because we want something different, will put even lower mileage “cream puff” used cars on the market, reducing the demand for new cars.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 I checked the CR web site, and they have bought one, but don’t have test results yet. The one they bought is 6 cylinder, and cost ~$70K. CR’s most recent reliability data for other Land Rover models is not good.

  26. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Here’s a link to TFL’s Defender; they claim the cheapest in the land. It is a four cylinder and listed for 55k.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 Interesting, but I think I’d rather have a C8 Corvette for about the same money, or a zero option Wrangler for about half the price, if I wanted to go off-roading. I’m sure the Defender is much more pleasant on road than a Wrangler, though. They considered the 4 cylinder to have plenty of power.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    What car would Superman drive?

    a. A Genesis G90 or lesser (I just put this for fun)

    b. A Lincoln Fusion COntinental (just throwing a bone to Cwolf here)

    c. An E-Mini (messing with Kit)

    d. A $3 million Silly Bugatti Veyron, CHiron whatever. Note every new set of tires is $40,000. AND you will need a new one every few DAYS, if driven as intended.


    e. The COrrect Answer. Before the Tesla Roaster 2.0 is available, he may want to move around in the latest upgraded Tesla Model S performance.

    Now with 400 miles of range ( yeah, correct me Kit, it’s “only” 387, an adequate 163 MPH top speed, and a MIND BOGGLING (eats Porsche 911 Turbos for lunch) 2.3 0-60. Seconds, not minutes.

    And all that from a BIG, ROOMY, HEAVY car that is 100% clean to boot and has far more passenger and cargo room than any of its alleged rivals.

    If you have ONE fair bone in your body and ONE ounce of brains, it is enough to be amazed that a model which is already 8 years old, and its design is 12 years old, can achieve the above.

    Again, try to manage your hate for Tesla and Elon Musk, and you will also see its EXCELLENCE, and the best part is, in this case, THERE IS Justice, and the GOod Guys WON (as signified by the Stock price up up there in the stratosphere, and Musk’s 100 billion net worth (oh yeah, correct me again, it’s only 96?)

  29. Larry D. Says:

    THis is the FInancial TImes CV link first given here by Kit, updated. I like the chart with the colored bands for US (grey), Europe (Blues) etc.

    As you can easily see, at the beginning of the Pandemic Europe was far, far worse than the US death wise, then it subsided there and the US toll grew, then Latin America was by far the worst, but if you look at the LATEST days, Europe is now much higher than the US in deaths, AND, what is WORSE, the gap is WIDENING as Euro Deaths increase while US deaths came DOWN.

    Of course you do not expect the CORRUPT media, always in the pocket of the Dem Party, to EVER acknowledge the above HARD FACTS. Instead, they shamelessly keep asking the same LOADED questions in the debates, about how bad allegedly Trump did, against I suppose some IDEAL standard, NOT how bad would the incompetent DEMS would do if THEY were in power when this disaster struck.

    They have no shame.

  30. ChuckGrenci Says:

    “What car would Superman drive”, well if he were frugal, it would be a C8 Corvette (I have no doubt). Oh, make that frugal and smart. Ha!

  31. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Continuing to follow TFL’s Defender purchase: they are having problems requiring dealer return; two so far, a check engine light (corrected) and a module communication problem (still in progress). Both in under 350 miles; does not bode well so far even though they say they love the vehicle (at least the mission and vision, not the execution, at least so far)

  32. Larry D. Says:

    More bad news for the usual suspects, the haters of the world’s Dominant BEV maker. If you pay attention to this show, they are not really news, but a nice 5 minute summary explaining, with NUMBERS, the reason for Tesla’s vast superiority vs such giants as GM and BMW’s BEVs

  33. Larry D. Says:

    Oh and in case you forget, Nicola’s crooks on video.

  34. Larry D. Says:

    Watching 32, you are not just amazed at the crookedness of that scumbag Trevor Milton, but, worse, you are shocked by the cluelesness of GM’s CEO Mary Barra, who not only defends the indefensible Nikola’s shenanigans, she even mentions the criminal Milton by name, and seems to have bought his lies 100%.

    Although it is really hard to listen to Barra, her pronounced high-pitched nasal twang is torture to the ear.

  35. cwolf Says:

    Larry, when are you going to accept that the real news is not about Tesla but the growing pace the competition is catching up? Already Tesla is being forced to lower their prices of their cars.
    At this moment, plans are being made to address the charging station needs which will more benefit others in the future. If Tesla doesn’t soon deal with their quality issues their lead will dwindle.

  36. cwolf Says:

    The development of batteries is the key to the future, not the the sale of EVs which only have 2% of total sales. Believing most EV’s are charged at home and reasonable distances capable of traveling 250 miles in Winter conditions, those offering moderate prices will prevail and those having better quality cars and SUV’s than Tesla will then gain the attention of more buyers. It is still Tesla’s game, but for how long?
    Tesla is on the defensive and worry is starting to show.
    If they can’t loose the impression they are more of a tech company than an auto manufacturer, their problems will only get worse.

  37. Bob Wilson Says:

    The web link is to an updated chart showing Tesla: models, MSRP, 0-60 times, and range. It condenses all of the recently announced changes in one page.

    Produced by Mark Kane titled “Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Comparison (Range, Price, Acceleration) October 2020″. Google can find the original article easily.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28. Here’s the other, even more informative FT tool.

    You can show cases or deaths by country, raw number or per million, “new” or cumulative… Well, just check it out and see. Also, farther down, you can do the same with US states. The US “leads” the EU in cumulative death rate, but does not lead certain countries, like Spain and Belgium.

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28,37. …and the counties that “did it right,” or more right, like Germany, have much lower cumulative and “new” death rates.

    27. An EV used in Indiana is mostly coal fired, not that clean.

    Speaking of Teslas, on the first leg of my trip from Indiana to Florida, I saw two, a Model S near Chattanooga, and a Model 3 near Atlanta. The S was being driven fast, and kind of dangerously with weaving between lanes, etc. The 3 was mostly going with the faster of the traffic flow, as I was. The 3 must have had a expensive special paint job. It was flat dark goldish brown. Was that ever a factory color?

  40. Larry D. Says:

    28 The Roadster 2.0 will totally annihilate and shame the C8 in performance, but even the much more comfortable and bigger, 5 passenger Model S is just as affordable and surely also beats the C8 in 0-60. Remember this is Superman, he needs to go fast. AND there is an even more awesome Model S, the PLAID SUper[-duper car, which, for what HUGE performance it offers, is DIrt-cheap. SOrry, Corvette.

  41. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I’ll not start an argument or debate, the Roadster 2.0 starts at over 200,000 dollars, the “Plaid”, 140,000; the Vette, under 70,000 (base C8, Z-51 and a couple extra doodads).

  42. Kit Gerhart Says:

    …and the C8 will go 400+ miles per 5 minute fill up, while either Tesla will need about ten times that for the same number of miles.

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    …and the C8 will far outcorner a Model S, “plaid” or otherwise.

  44. ChuckGrenci Says:

    And Superman is only a mild mannered reporter; he can’t afford no Tesla.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    Our frequent guest here, Sandy Munro, on the $25,000 (with NO Sugardaddy Govt $7,500 tax credits) Tesla Hatch.

    Be patient for the first couple mins, or fast forward to where Sandy starts talking.

    One area we are in agreement is when he says “That Nikola guy who is going to Jail”. THe same crook Trevor Milton Mary Barra pretends is a legitimate person.

  46. Larry D. Says:

    Munro is VERY excited after Tesla’s “B attery Day”. When specifically asked, he said that NOTHING in that show disappointed him.

  47. Larry D. Says:

    Despite the wild success of its car models, even the high volume mass market ones, this non-car is claimed to be Tesla’s most disruptive Vehicle yet. The video explains why to the doubting THomases.

  48. Larry D. Says:

    Dr. Evil’s satanic plan to crush Tesla

    (but actually I agree with him about the Mars deal)

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I saw a lot of high dollar motor homes during my trip from IN to FL. I guess that’s what some people are doing with their money, instead of going to theme parks. Also, I saw an unusually large number of Airstreams, which probably means there is an Airstream rally in Florida, or maybe in Georgia.

    I saw zero Teslas today, on the second leg of my trip. I saw a few Volvos, and a couple or three Geneses, but no Teslas. It seems that, even though Teslas are by far the best BEVs to use for highway trips, not many people use them that way. They are mainly used for local driving, or trips within range of the owner’s home.

    I saw my first ever current generation Ford Raptor, driven by a complete jerk. He never got out of the left lane, forcing people to pass on the right, because he’d just sit there next to other vehicles going the same speed. I would expect someone driving that vehicle to drive fast, but I wouldn’t have expected them to be a “left lane bandit.”

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I also saw several of those Acura sedans that sell so poorly. There aren’t too many of them, but the people who have them apparently drive them on the highway.

  51. Brett Cammack Says:

    Blocking the left lane like that is now an offense in Florida.

  52. Lambo2015 Says:

    Not that people run out of gas much anymore. Most cars now have the gas light letting them know they are down to a gallon or two which is still typically 50 miles. However if for some reason you run out of gas, getting a gas can filled at the nearest station and putting a couple gallons in the car is an inconvenience compared to the dead EV which will require a tow.

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    51 This was in Florida, between Jax and Daytona. Too bad there wasn’t a cop around, if they ever actually enforce it.