AD #2958 – Rivian Announces Pricing; Porsche Designed a Van?; New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims
November 12th, 2020 at 12:01pm
Listen to “AD #2958 – Rivian Announces Pricing; Porsche Designed a Van?; New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 9:31
0:07 Nissan Earnings Not As Bad As Expected
0:48 Detroit Automakers Double Down on CDC Protocols
1:28 Rivian Announces Pricing for Truck & SUV
3:21 Small Van Sales Down More Than Overall Market
4:11 Porsche Designed a Van?
5:18 Renault Reveals All-New Kangoo & Express Vans
7:03 Tesla Finds Fix for Screens Going Blank
7:58 New Type of Spark Plug Makes Big Claims
8:48 Ford F-150 Hybrid Rated at 24 MPG
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
NISSAN EARNINGS NOT AS BAD AS EXPECTED
We start today’s report in Japan where Nissan reported its latest earnings and while the numbers are ugly, they’re not as horrible as expected. It took in $18 billion in revenue, down 27% from a year ago. It posted an operating loss of almost $46 million, which was down significantly but analysts were expecting it to be about $1.4 billion. And it had a net loss of $385 million, a swing downward of almost $1 billion. While this was better than expected, Nissan warned that a second wave of Covid-19 racing around the world could hurt car sales and its recovery.
DETROIT AUTOMAKERS DOUBLE DOWN ON CDC PROTOCOLS
Now to Detroit where GM, Ford and FCA are doubling down on CDC protocols because of the sudden surge in Covid cases. Fortunately, there have not been any outbreaks in car plants, which are running flat out to try and catch up from lost production earlier this spring when they were shut down. Every worker going into every plant has to wear a mask, get their temperature taken, and keep their distance. Work stations have barriers between them where possible, and the working areas are sanitized before each shift. Automakers are also encouraging their employees to follow CDC protocols when they’re away from work.
RIVIAN ANNOUNCES PRICING FOR TRUCK & SUV
Rivian announced pricing for its electric R1S SUV and R1T pickup and is now taking orders. The SUV starts at $70,000 before incentives, while the Adventure and Launch Edition models carry a starting price of $77,500. Meanwhile, the electric truck starts at $67,500 before incentives and moves up to $75,000 for the Adventure and Launch Editions. All models have over 300 miles of range. Rivian will begin delivering the truck in June of 2021, while the SUV arrives a few months later in August. That’s for the Launch Editions, the other trims will start being delivered in January of 2022. Like Tesla, Rivian is selling directly to customers and is not using a dealer network. So to take care of maintenance and service, the company will use both purpose-built service centers and mobile service. And like Tesla, Rivian can also take care of software issues with over-the-air updates.
SMALL VAN SALES DOWN MORE THAN OVERALL MARKET
Car sales this year have been clobbered due to the pandemic but the small van segment is especially struggling. According to Wards Intelligence, through the first ten months of the year, sales are down nearly a third compared to a year ago in the U.S. That includes both minivans and small cargo vans. While minivans easily outsell small cargo vans by nearly a four to one margin, they’ve been hit harder by the downturn. Small cargo vans are down 15% while minivans have seen a 36% decline so far this year. Although, part of the minivan decline is due to the Dodge Grand Caravan being axed from the lineup. But even still the numbers are a bit bleak. The overall car market is down 17% but the small van segment is doing nearly two times as worse.
| U.S. Small Van Sales YTD | ||
|---|---|---|
| Sales | 277,603 | -32.7% |
| Minivans | 221,160 | -36% |
| Small Vans | 56,443 | -15.5% |
PORSCHE DESIGNED A VAN?
Speaking of vans, could you ever envision Porsche making a family hauler? Sounds crazy, but designers for the German automaker wanted to see if they could transfer its characteristic style to an entirely new vehicle segment. And in 2018, this is what they came up with. We love it. It’s like a modern interpretation of the Brubaker Box, a kit car from 1972 that was built on a VW Beetle chassis. But the Porsche is an all-electric vehicle, which provides a spacious interior, while the driver sits in the middle, like a McLaren F1. The reason we’re highlighting this van is because Porsche is releasing 15 different design studies from 2005 to 2019 that have been seen by very few people. Porsche Unseen, as it’s called, takes you through the entire design process, from the first sketch to the driveable prototype. These will be highlighted in a series of articles on the Porsche media site as well as published in a new book. It also dedicated an episode of its web TV series to a few of the design studies.
RENAULT REVEALS NEW KANGOO & EXPRESS VANS
Sticking with vans, Renault revealed the all-new Kangoo and Express. They’re offered as both commercial and passenger versions and as you can see styling is a little less bubbly than before. The Kangoo is offered in two body lengths, with manual or automatic transmissions and features gas, diesel and electric powertrains. It did not provide details about powertrains for either van. Renault is moving the Kangoo van a little more upmarket and that shows through in the interior with wood- and brushed aluminum-like accents. Another interesting feature is Easy Side Access. The B-Pillar has been removed between the front door and sliding side door to create a huge opening, double that of the previous model. The all-new Kangoo and Express launch in Spring of next year.
Be sure to join us for Autoline After Hours later this afternoon. We’ll be talking about the new frontier–mobility–and what that means for suppliers. Our guest is Brian Goldstine, the president of Mobility Solutions at Bridgestone. We’ll also look at which traditional car company has the best EV strategy to take on Tesla and we’ll speculate which models will survive at Fiat and Chrysler as they merge with Peugeot. Pete Bigelow from Automotive News will be joining John and Gary to provide you with some of the best insights in the automotive industry.
TESLA OFFERS FIX FOR SCREENS THAT GO BLANK
Back in June, NHTSA launched an investigation into touchscreens in the Tesla Model S and X after receiving complaints from owners that the screen would go blank, which resulted in losing control of certain functions. The issue involved models built prior to March 2018. Now Tesla has come up with a fix but it’s calling it a warranty adjustment program and not a recall. The fix involves replacing the 8 gig MultiMediaCard in the media control unit with a 64 gig one. It applies to vehicles with less than 100,000 miles that are within 8 years of their original in-service or delivery date. Affected owners complained that they couldn’t use the rear-view camera, climate control, navigation and infotainment after the screen went blank. But Tesla says it’s unaware of any accidents related to the faulty screens.
NEW TYPE OF SPARK PLUG DEVELOPED
Despite all the news about electric cars, there’s still new technology going into piston engines. A company called Pulstar came out with a new type of spark plug. It has a built in capacitor that releases a pulse equal to 5 million watts. That much power turns part of the air and gas mixture into a plasma which burns faster and more completely. The company claims the plugs increase throttle response and boost horsepower by 3.5% and torque by 3.8%. Usually we’re very skeptical of claims like these, but Pulstar says the technology comes from the Sandia National Laboratory and that lab is at the leading edge of technology. So that’s why we decided to report on this. HOW IT WORKS
FORD F-150 HYBRID GETS 24 MPG
The EPA rated the new F-150 hybrid and it gets 24 miles-to-the-gallon. In fact, it’s the same number for city, highway and combined. That ties the overall number for the diesel version of the truck. But the hybrid also offers an optional onboard generator that puts out 7.2 kilowatts power, which is enough to run a house.
And with that we wrap up today’s show. Thanks for watching.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
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Comments (24)
November 12th, 2020 at 12:22 pm
Rivian prices are VERY High, assuming the interiors are no better than those of ICE pickups and SUVs.
Yet Rivian will be one of the very few BEV Pickup makers who will not go bankrupt.
WHY? Because its sugardaddy Bezos of Amazon ordered 100,000 VANS from Rivian, and I assume he is letting them make some $ on each of those.
In other news, that ugly TURKEY from BMW, the BEV crossover with the twin Edsel grille, is touted by clueless journalists, even in Automotive News, as a possible.. Tesla fighter.
Seriously, clueless ones??? That, and ALL Lucid models too, are two to three times as expensive as Tesla’s MAIN, make or break models, the 3 and the Y. NOBODY can TOUCH Tesla UNLESS they build an AFFORDABLE Model 3 or Y fighter, that is AS GOOD AS THEY ARE. anything else is clueless BS.
November 12th, 2020 at 12:24 pm
Sean, I like the new small vans, but you didn’t mention whether it is likely to have a Nissan version available in North America. Also, Peugeot makes a similar small van that is more attractive to me than the FIAT vans. Do you think it is likely FCA will offer that?
November 12th, 2020 at 12:27 pm
Larry, Just another reminder. Your opinions are opinions, no facts. Your opinion of the future is also not a fact.
November 12th, 2020 at 12:32 pm
Kevin, I’ve met Larry, his opinions are fact, I read it somewhere.
Sean! I’ve always told everyone who will listen to me, that minivans are just a clever ploy to slowly effeminate Americans and bring us closer to Communism. I’d considered a minivan when Pontiac showed the RAM-AIR version of the Montana… but that never materialized. If Porsche makes a van, I may have to consider it!
November 12th, 2020 at 12:37 pm
For reference, 67.5K gets you a platinum edition crew cab F350 1 ton dually 4×4 that would run circles around the Rivian in doing actual truck things.
Given the level of equipment and size of the Rivian, it is competing with the Ranger XLT which you can get for $30K. You could even spring for the fully loaded Ranger Lariat model for $35K.
Just another BEV that sells to rich people. The line forms behind TESLA for that segment of buyers.
November 12th, 2020 at 12:53 pm
So what is Tesla charging for the blank screen issue for those that are over 100k miles?
The Porsche van is an attractive design even if not very practical. I think they should pursue it.
The F150 getting 24MPG is good but seems that has been a target for automakers for a long time. Many cars from 1990 to 2010 seem to get 24MPG no matter if they had a 4,6 or 8 cylinder engine. So is that the new target for trucks?
November 12th, 2020 at 1:05 pm
5. I’d be thrilled if my 2019 F-150 2.7 Ecoboost got 24 mpg. True, it’s mostly either driven in the city or towing on the highway, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen better than about 18 mpg.
That said, it’s a great truck. Will probably get another in a couple of years when the lease is up.
November 12th, 2020 at 1:07 pm
While I know full size, and even midsize, truck can run this high cost wise, it is my understanding that they are nearly fully loaded. With the R1T starting at $67K for the basics, what all are you getting at that price, compared to an ICE pick-up? I know BEV’s are a small market and the tech is expensive right now, but if the Big Three see that people are willing to spend this kind of money in big numbers, how might this impact the cost of “regular” trucks? The R1T is in between the size of a midsize truck and a full, but its starting price is on the high end of a nicely equipped full truck, what will this mean for the cost of the EV F-150 and Silverado? They WIIL be full sized and if the Rivian’s ‘tweener’ is pulling in this kind of money, how can one expect GM and Ford to ask for less?! I think Ford promised the electric F-150 to start about $50K, but if that holds true, what all will that get you and how quickly will the price rise, when they know the market will bear $67K for the basics from the competition?
November 12th, 2020 at 1:29 pm
re 1, I saw the interior of the RIvian pickup and I don’t need to assume anything. It is NO better or more luxurious than that of BASE versions of ICE pickups. In fact it looks quite boring, a sea of grays as usual.
The high price condemns it to a few private sles only, and NO FLEET SALES.
But as I said, with that 100,000 van Amazon order, RIvian should survive.
November 12th, 2020 at 1:30 pm
I think the Rivian pickup and SUV will do quite well at these price points. And they are in the range that they stated early this year. Many domestic pickups with luxury trims run higher than these prices, so I think they are competitive. Price out a Denali Sierra and see where you end up. There is a reason Rivian is not offering a basic work truck.
November 12th, 2020 at 1:31 pm
@7 – My 1997 F-150 SuperCab (there were no crew cab <8500 GVW trucks then) 4×4 4.6L V8 consistently returned 18mpg. My neighbor’s 2018 F-150 CrewCab 4×4 with the 3.5L Ecoboost and Max. Trail package is also getting 18 mpg with an occasionally heavy right foot (gotta have some fun). I think you are possibly having too much fun.:)
November 12th, 2020 at 1:34 pm
By the way, for those wondering about actual unit volume and pecking order in the minivan market, here is how they stacked up thru the end of the third quarter versus same time period in 2019.
Chrysler Pacifica 64,290 vs 70,224
Dodge Grand Caravan 36,155 vs 99,403 (discontinued model)
Honda Odyssey 59,691 vs 74,258
Toyota Sienna 28,781 vs 58,245
Kia Sedona 10,131 vs 11,576
November 12th, 2020 at 1:37 pm
6- The charge to repair the EMMC chip in the Tesla MCU is $400.
November 12th, 2020 at 1:44 pm
@Kevin A – No word if there will be a Nissan version of these vans, but I would not be surprised. The NV200 is quite old and I’ve not heard of a replacement coming. Also, the Renault Kangoo will be offered as an electric and in their reworked alliance partnership they said Renault would handle electric architectures while Nissan would provide e-powertrains. So, it would make sense that these could also be Nissans. As for Peugeot and FCA, I think it also comes down to electrification. Peugeot offers electric versions of its vans, FCA does not. Rebadging the Peugeots would be an easy way to electrify Ram’s vans and start earning carbon credits. One other thing I’ve considered, Peugeot wants to re-enter the American market, could it do it on the commercial side rather than the passenger side? Would someone be more willing to buy a Peugeot commercial van in the U.S. than a Peugeot sedan or SUV? I don’t know, but I think it’s an interesting thing to think about.
November 12th, 2020 at 2:08 pm
@Kevin A – I did a little more digging. Nissan did get a version of the Kangoo, called the NV250, which replaced the NV200 in Europe. The U.S. did not get this version and still offers the NV200. It looks like the NV250 is based on the old Kangoo and not the all-new one we showed today. But it would make sense that there would also be a Nissan version of this as well. And hopefully, the U.S. would also get that version.
November 12th, 2020 at 2:18 pm
14 Interesting question Sean. When I think about commercial vehicles though, I believe they often get more use than your average van. So would a business owner consider a Van that essentially will not have much of a dealer network? Will parts be readily available or will their van be sitting at the dealership waiting for a part to be shipped over from France. The price would have to be so competitive to even consider over-looking those considerations. So many domestic manufacturers have a parts network that would allow almost any part to be had within a day. For businesses time is money and they cant afford to have vehicles sitting in the shop.
November 12th, 2020 at 2:21 pm
1 Tesla has done an excellent job of utilizing the space exploration side of the business in the battery, wiring and software side of their automobiles. Even with that they have yet to turn a profit on the base business and relies on fuel economy credit buying from the other automakers. So while they are doing well in the stock market based upon potential, there is no guarantees that the past performance will continue.
November 12th, 2020 at 2:26 pm
@Lambo – Good question about the dealer network. I just figured they’d use FCA dealers. The current Ram commercial vans are just rebadged Fiats from Europe and I’ve not heard of any parts availability problems. That’s not to say it can’t happen. I remember when the Mercedes Sprinter was first offered in the U.S. and getting brake parts in particular (outside of the dealership) was a nightmare.
November 12th, 2020 at 4:32 pm
The vast majority of pickups sold in the US are “lifestyle” vehicles, and that seems to be the market nearly all of these BEV things are going after. That said, if a commercial operator approaches Ford wanting 2000 long bed, regular cab electric F-150s with batteries sized for 150 mile range, I suspect Ford might build them.
November 13th, 2020 at 1:44 am
19 have you seen stats for this or is it just a guess? I would guess that even if this is true, and as it is in cars and suvs, the vast majority of those lifestyle vehicles would be in the 30k-40k range, and not in the $70k (and much more) range Rivians, Fake Hummers, and other BEV pickups are.
November 13th, 2020 at 7:34 am
20 I’ve read that 75% of pickups tow once a year, or less. In most cases, that probably means never. As far as what they haul, or don’t haul, I haven’t seen data.
Looking at the inventory at a local Chevy dealer, the MSRP of most of the Silverados are over $50K, and only one of the 30 trucks was under $40K.
November 13th, 2020 at 9:10 am
21) Why is everyone so quick to compare the Rivian to a full size truck? The dimensions are right there on the Rivian website. It is the same size as the mid-size Jeep Gladiator. The only thing full size about the Rivian is the price.
When you compare the Rivian to the Gladiator, Tacoma, Ranger, and Colorado….It is grotesquely overpriced. You can put every single option on a Gladiator and price it up to $65k which is still $2000 less than the base price of a Rivian. However, then you will have numerous features that the Rivian doesn’t even offer.
It is quite simply an overpriced mid-size truck.
November 13th, 2020 at 10:07 am
22 Yep, all BEVs are more expensive than equivalent non-EVs, and will stay that way until batteries get much cheaper.
November 13th, 2020 at 10:58 am
23 That’s the problem right there Kit. Manufacturers seem to keep saying that price will come down as economies of scale go up. However the only manufacturer of high volume EVs is Tesla. What will batteries have to come down to until EVs are actually on par with ICE prices. The batteries use rare earth metals and don’t really show any sign of dropping to the level needed to make them competitive. Yet some manufacturers are already talking like their entire lineup will be BEVs in the next 4 years. So as consumers are we just going to be forced into a 60K vehicle? Are we going to mandate and regulate the new car business right into the ground? A cheaper battery better come soon or we will soon see new car sales go right down the drain.