AD #2964 – GM Speeds Up EV Development; Lincoln Nautilus Refreshed; JLR Seeks to Block VW Group SUV Imports

November 20th, 2020 at 12:01pm

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Runtime: 8:51

0:08 GM Steps Up BEV Commitment
0:41 GM Speeds Up EV Development
1:11 GM on Track to Get Battery Pack Cost Below $100/kWh
1:50 GM Invests $27 Billion In EVs Over Five Years
3:07 Lincoln Refreshes the Nautilus
4:35 Corvette Now Available in China
4:55 Xpeng to Equip Production Vehicles with Lidar
5:53 Toyota Crown May Get the Axe
6:30 Bosch Helps EV Startups Get to Market Faster
7:17 JLR Wants to Block VW Group from Importing SUVs To U.S.

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60 Comments to “AD #2964 – GM Speeds Up EV Development; Lincoln Nautilus Refreshed; JLR Seeks to Block VW Group SUV Imports”

  1. Kevin A Says:

    To save us all some time, here is Larry’s summary of today’s show. GM EV not as good as Tesla. Who cares about Lincoln (also Volvo, JLR, Mazda) Why you make Larry tell you again and again? Larry smart. You dumb.

  2. XA351GT Says:

    @ #1 ooooh Now you’ve done it . LOL

  3. Jim Haines Says:

    The reason the Nautilus shows badly on reports is because they do, we work on a lot of low mileage Ford products that have tons of failures all the time that are not cheap to fix

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 What kinds of things? Electronics, or mechanical stuff?

  5. joe Says:

    Here’s shocking Wall Street news to someone who blogs a lot on this site. The Almighty Tesla could be overtaken by GM according to Wall Street. How could a low tech company with idiots running it beat the Almighty Tesla Company with the Super Genius, Elon Musk, at the helm? How could that ever happen???

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-general-motors-can-become-a-growth-stock-11605881120?mod=lead_feature_below_a_pos1

  6. clem zahrobsky Says:

    Biden and his VP must have put the fear of god into GM about selling EVs if it wants to keep selling PUs and SUVs

  7. wmb Says:

    @#1- I don’t why we listen to Sean and John anyway, if we were smart we would only listen to Larry! LOL

    With JLR having filed a law suit again another auto market in Europe and lost, I think they may have filed this one in the US and, should they win, use it to set a precedent. Then they could go to other markets to and don’t be same thing. Yet, maybe I missed it, but, Bentley was not named in the law suit? Were they purposely not going after a fellow Brit?!

  8. joe Says:

    6

    Your probably joking, but in any case, GM planned those EV’s years ago. GM waited years to do this because back then batteries were not good enough,but while waiting for better batteries which GM knew was forth coming, they designed the cars. If they had good enough batteries back then, Tesla wouldn’t even exist.

  9. Lambo2015 Says:

    If GM is able to take a years worth of development time out, that takes the industry standard of 36 month down to 24 and no reason the Lyriq and Hummer should have launch dates so far out. Releasing them early still doesn’t guarantee they have customers.

  10. MJB Says:

    Speaking of JLR trying to block other SUVs from import, I saw my first Lambo Urus on the road yesterday (yellow). Passed by too quickly for me to get a really good take though, but what I saw looked pretty good.

    Unlike the newest Corvette, which turns me off in photos, but starts to win me back over in person, the Urus seems to live up to the hype (visually speaking).

  11. MJB Says:

    Oddly enough, I just did a search and found an abnormally high number of used Lambo Urus’ for sale (cargurus.com). Some with less than 1,000mi on them. What gives!?

  12. Wim van Acker Says:

    @11: after 1,000 miles the ashtray tends to be full, so time to sell the Lamborghini :-)

  13. bradley cross Says:

    JLR is running out of money, hence the lawsuits.

    GM seem well run, lets hope they are successful in the EV transition.
    Obviously Tesla the brand is strong so GM will have their work cut out.

  14. Joe G Says:

    I still wonder (at least in the US market) who will be buying the glut of electric vehicles on the way. At our small dealership we have 8 orders/reservations for the new MachE, yet over 200 for the Bronco/ Bronco Sport. Rarely do we sell a new plug-in hybrid of any model, including Lincoln. I often wonder if taking up 50% of the automotive reporting every day with electric vehicle news matches the actual ‘excitement’ on the ground (except in California) for these vehicles. (I know, it is a global market, and Europe/China dominate electric vehicle sales, because the goverments mandate it). I still love the show and watch daily! Just an observation.

  15. Larry D. Says:

    A. I TRIED to watch AAH yesterday, but I could not. As always, I skipped the free Magna commercial, I know all about them, they are great. ANd I clicked the convenient yellow square that separates the first 30 mins from the usually interesting discussion,which I usually DO watch. However, this time the two regulars, John and Gary, had some younger fellow there, who could not speak two words before he added an IDIOTIC and USELESS “you know”, like most young punks and several older ones keep doing. It was EXTREMELY Annoying and I was forced to stop watching. Too bad.

    As for today’s show, you have four stories basically reprinting GM PR releases and claiming all kinds of wonderful things.

    I saw already ONE valid concern, by Lambo. NONE of all of that guarantees that the Demand is there for those BEVs, esp the Pickups, as people FAR MORE KNOWLEADGEABLE than the resident GM fan boys said ON THIS SHOW and ATW.

    My concern is that NONE of these promises and claims, some of which are wishful thinking, guarantees that, CONTRARY to what BOB LUTZ ADMITTED on this show, that GM can make even ONE of these products AT A PROFIT, SUSTAINABLY, as T E S L A has achieved making the Model 3 at a CONSIDERABLE profit. ‘

    LUTZ offered the ‘solution’ that GM’s BEVs will be subsidized by the buyers of its PROFITABLE SUVs and pickups, a pathetic admission of FAILURE in any OBJECTIVE oberver’s book.

    WHAT HAS CHANGED, if ANYTHING, since LUTZ made these admissions, that would comfort me, the TAXPAYER, that this blithering idiot Biden will not have to BAIL OUT the incompetents AGAIN with my tax money????

  16. Larry D. Says:

    As far as the lame refresh of the Ford Breadvan, the so called “Lincoln” Nautilus ( I assume this is the Escape clone, as the ridiculously named Aviator (pigs fly) is the Explorer clone): The exterior styling is OK, but what is this material in the interior? FOrmica? if it is fake wood, why debase a Lincoln instead of using REAL wood? If it is real wood (hell froze over), why didn’t they choose something that does NOT look like fake one? Also the white dash may produce annoying glare in some cases.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14 I’m surprised you aren’t seeing more interest in the Mach-E. It appears to be a genuine competitor to the Tesla Y, which is doing well, at least in some places. Are you in a location where no EVs sell?

  18. Wim van Acker Says:

    @15, “WHAT HAS CHANGED, if ANYTHING, since LUTZ made these admissions”: very much, since Lutz retired from GM in 2004.

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 Nautilus is like Edge. Corsair is like Escape.

  20. clem zahrobsky Says:

    at close to $2 a gallon for gas GM is going to have to work to sells those BEVs.

  21. WineGeek Says:

    Lincoln’s positive news is a refreshed Nautilus, we’re really reaching today for good news Sean. :)

  22. WineGeek Says:

    Hey Joe #5 I wouldn’t bet against Elon and Tesla. Those Wall Street prognosticators have been wrong more than they’ve been right over the years.

  23. Timothy Economu Says:

    17 Yeah I’m wondering that too. Maybe it’s Ford who has never produced an electric car ground up. Maybe that it’s not out yet. We can’t get any here locally for months, maybe till next year. And …they have big shoes to fill.

  24. Lambo2015 Says:

    15 Is Tesla really making a profit? Take away the carbon credits it sells to other manufacturers that sell the ICEs that people want and how much did they make?
    Not saying that the sale of carbon credits isn’t a great business plan but it doesn’t mean that EVs are profitable.

  25. joe Says:

    23

    True, but if Larry D says it, it must be factual.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    23,24 If what I found in a search is correct, Tesla will sell about 1.5B of carbon credits in 2020, so they’d need to raise average price of the cars about $4500 to come out the same.

  27. Sean Wagner Says:

    The Urus is nice – but I saw a far rarer bird this week: the Volkswagen XL1 two-seater, in pristine condition. Did a triple take.

    That’s really like a concept-car on wheels, and totally removed from how the industry actually is developing.

    I’ve studied Tesla’s quarterly filings exhaustively, though not the most recent ones. Recommended pursuit.

    The company is not built around reliance on subsidies or credits, and those instruments of policy were always meant to be transient.

    This stage of EV development still returns far more for a given (smart) effort than highly perfected convetional cars, just like scaling production.

    Some here think we’re missing another battery breakthrough, but that’s not necessary at all. The continuing, steady accumulation of smallish improvements has already delivered and will suffice.

    I’m glad to see GM grabbing the tiger by the tail – they have an advantage over some other legacy companies.

    Total employment is about 160’000, and while Volkswagen AG is substantially bigger, their roaster includes over 600’000 workers (Toyota about half that).

    It’s partially down to vertical integration.

  28. FSTFWRD Says:

    I have a question for L.D. What is the difference if a company makes a profit from their ICE vehicles or from selling “credits”? Just curious.

  29. joe Says:

    9
    GM’s release of 30 new EV’s by 2025 is a major accomplishment…something not to scoff at. How many other auto maker will have that many by then? Certainly not the so called EV leader, Tesla. You complain about the timeline of the Hummer and Lyrig and yet the the ugly Cybertruck…looks like it could have been built by a tinsmith from his garage…has about the same timeline as the Lyrig and Hummer. Why not complain about that?
    As for GM getting customers; customers will buy from whichever company has the best bang for the bucks. I’m sure quality will be scrutinized, something Tesla can not brag about.

  30. joe Says:

    Look at the pics from the link below. Tell me if you would buy a vehicle from that company.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+poor+quality+pictures&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALeKk028rTFeVbR0IintYdd4WZuqbdxNkw:1605976255988&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=MghMVzFz5dmr9M%252C7iDy25QFsp07YM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSt3uZxiF3SjEF8tCB9JnWH7VPiwA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwin0oXih5TtAhXlw1kKHQDuCDUQ9QF6BAgOEDI

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I expect the “mustang” Mach-E to do ok, in spite of the stupid name. It will be a near-clone of the Tesla Model Y, and the base price will be $5K less than the cheapest Y shown on the Tesla site. Also, the Ford will be eligible for the $7500 tax credit, for those who can use it. Does anyone know when it will actually show up on the road? I’ve read things from “now,” to “next spring,” which would seem to mean about 6 months from now.

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 People who buy Teslas just don’t care as much about build quality/fit and finish as most of the people who buy Toyotas and Benzes. That would be especially true with those who order a Tesla through the web site, rather than being able to look over their actual car at a store.

  33. joe Says:

    31

    The percentage of customers who don’t care much about quality/fit and finish are very few if any. Are you one of those person? Seriously, I don’t think you or anyone else would say I don’t care. That’s why I think if a company has that kind of mentality, they’ll be out of business very quickly with little doubt.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    31 I’m not one of those people, but I haven’t bought a Tesla.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 Actually, different people value different things in cars. Tesla, while having bad fit and finish by today’s standards, is probably substantially better than my 1989 Dodge Caravan, and even after 31 years, I’m satisfied with my van.

    On a more serious note, Tesla has, by far, the best EV charge network, the best EV powertrains by most criteria, attractive cars, and the all-important cult status. Those things matter more than fit and finish to some people. Tesla will move forward, and over time, catch up in the build quality department. For the foreseeable future, it is no surprise that Tesla is the dominant BEV company. Time will tell how things go when the legacy car companies start catching up with their BEVs.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    34 Good luck talking sense to pathological, knee-jerk Tesla haters like Joe, who is also a… SpaceX and Musk Hater extraordinaire as well.

    DO you remember what this character blurted in response to my Q if he was aware of the STELLAR successes of SPACEX and Musk at SpaceX?

    He pathetically blurted “It was all due to NASA giving SpaceX ‘the blueprints’ (SIC!!!!!!)”

    Imagine what a 95 year old DINOSAUR this character is if he thinks companies give each other “BLUEPRINTS” (!!!!!) in the 21st century.

    As for your repeated accusation that Tesla is a ‘cult’, it is far less of a cult than the failed De Lorean admirers, which is ALL hat and NO cattle, as well as the cult of ALFA Afficionados, or “ALFISTI”, who seem not perturbed in the least if Every alfa ever made is in the shop.

    The ELectrification REVOLUTION (bloodless so far) is NOT a “Cult” so do YOURSELF a favor and don’t call it that, it only makes you look clueless and like Joe (simple Joe, JoeS is OK) and KevinA and all the other destitute (mentally, and possibly in other ways) Tesla Haters here.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/20/tesla-gets-exemption-from-new-california-covid-19-health-orders.html?fbclid=IwAR2IEZeniBf35oi_ejOb6TZWdL4hYIsPasRLYnllf8MIolosgGvAtr_O7qQ

    As George Orwell put it in “Animal Farm”,

    “All animals are equal, but some are more equal than the others”.

    Are Tesla Employees “Essential Workers” and above CA CV orders? It seems so.

  38. Kit Gerhart Says:

    35 Google “tesla cult status” and you’ll find that I’m not the only one who sees a cult-like following of Tesla, kind of like with Apple in the days of Steve Jobs.

  39. joe Says:

    35

    You addressed me as “SIC, pathological, knee-jerk, 95 year old DINOSAUR, clueless, simple joe” all in in one comment. And, you do this often with other commentators. It’s obvious something is wrong with you. I don’t have to take this abuse by staying silent. We should be able to have differences of opinions without calling names when you find someone who does not share your views. Continuous name calling should not be tolerated! Many commentators are tired of your childless behavior!!
    My advice to you is to look back at some of your attacks, and then, try to do better. If you can not do this, we don’t need you over here.

  40. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/elon-musk-is-as-if-thomas-edison-and-henry-ford-made-a-baby-analyst.html

    Instead of sticking your heads deeper in the sand like a dumb ostrich, TRY to understand who ELon Musk is. I have previously compared him to THomas Edison AND Henry FOrd Myself, BUT I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE. Much more famous people, SERIOUS, household-word Scientists like that black guy (forger his exact name) who is on TV all the time, De Grasse Tyson or something, ALSO has made the same comparison.

    Now I found this gem at CNBC, well known AND respected analyst Jonas had FOrd and Edison have a baby. IF they did, it would be ELON MUSK.

    Take that, miserable haters.

  41. Larry D. Says:

    ANd for the benefit of the haters who are link challenged, (like those who believe NASA uses..”blueprints”) I post this gem from the link:

    “Let me just step back and say, if Thomas Edison and Henry Ford made a baby, that baby would be called Elon Musk. He’s absolutely incredible, what he’s done, using his enthusiasm to really change the world, if we’re being honest,” Jonas said on CNBC’s “Squawk Alley.”

    Jonas lauded Musk’s push for innovation across his companies, saying that “on New Year’s Eve I sent Elon a message” of encouragement.

    “I think all of us can thank him for not giving up,” Jonas said.

  42. Larry D. Says:

    HAHAHA… this is even better. Kit should be really regretting his suggestion that I look Tesla and Musk up…

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/billfischer/2019/10/28/thomas-edison-the-elon-musk-of-his-era/

    No, haters, you did not read wrong. Forbes says:

    “Thomas Edison: The ELON MUSK of his era”!!!!!

    This really made my day.

  43. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXcgBfi4xxo

    THat’s the guy I mentioned above. Neil Degrasse Tyson.

    “Neil deGrasse Tyson: Elon Musk Is The Most Important Person Alive Today”

    THIS should make JOE’s day… NOT!!!~!

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41 If you would actually read other people’s posts, I said google “tesla cult status,” which you were implying didn’t exist in your #35.

    I have never disputed that Musk is a brilliant guy, especially in regard to coming up with the tech to land the rocket boosters. I don’t know if he designed the technology to do it, or just had the idea and found the right people to implement it, but we know the end result.

    Edison was a brilliant inventor, but there were things he didn’t know, like the need for these things called transformers, requiring AC current, if you want the distribute electricity over long distances with small wires.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    https://electrek.co/2020/11/19/tesla-model-s-passes-test-police-car-fremont-fuel-cost/?fbclid=IwAR1LMNe-ukLTAR-ukHbaYrPTZMtdt6mBebc8KkUNsOcqfcYH-OmgtRnom9I

    Some time ago the Fremont CA police Dept bought a used model S, I believe. Here is their long term test report. It saves them $4,000 a year in fuel, among many other things.

  46. Joe Says:

    “Elon Musk is the most important person alive today!” To have made such a brainless statement, Neil deGrasse Tyson must be a member of the Tesla cult family. Only weak minded people think that way. People that can be easily brainwashed.

  47. Sean Wagner Says:

    41 Kit – Someone who gets far too little recognition is the long-time President and COO of SpaceX, Gwynne Shotwell [sic...]. I try to watch or listen to all interviews with her that crop up.

    Highly recommended. Must be on youtube.

  48. joe Says:

    41

    I agree with you that Gwynne Shotwell of SpaceX gets too little recognition. Who do you think gets that recognition? The Almighty God, Elon Musk.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    44 Does Fremont get all of their electricity from wind and solar? I doubt it, and suspect there are some CO2 emissions from operation of an electric car there, though no doubt a lot less than the gas hog Ford SUV.

    I wonder what broke on the Tesla that needed $4,865 to fix. Actually, what would the new Ford need ~$2900 in repair for? It would need 3-4 oil changes for the ~25K miles, and a half set of tires a year, but it must break too.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    46 I’ll check.

  51. cwolf Says:

    There is no doubt about Musk being a very smart guy, but I have to laugh about LD’s comparisons.
    Wasn’t one of Henry Ford’s sons named Edsel? His endevors didn’t turn out that well, eh? And as dominant as Ford once was, they are no longer such a powerhouse. Is this where Tesla is headed?
    Indeed, Tesla leads the few rivals and will no doubt be on top for awhile, but soon there will be even more rivals that equal them, not only in price, but with better quality.
    They say once you get the reputation of having poor quality, it is a difficult long road to regain the reputation and to change all the minds of others having bad experiences.

  52. cwolf Says:

    I am now starting to consider buying an EV in the future, but not until several makes become abunant in dealer lots and on the road. For me, battery technology is only now coming to fruition and comes with a more “wait and see” attitude. I will charge from home so traveling a good distance on a single charge in winter conditions will be important. If one could be purchased without 3/4 of the electronics and devices, that I don’t need nor want, I would be tempted to buy one even sooner.

  53. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Over the last few years, batteries have gotten cheaper, but not much better, as far as energy density. We keep hearing about big breakthroughs, like solid state batteries, but they are years away from actual production. For now, any improvements in battery performance will be incremental.

  54. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/dealers/ev-wary-dealers-offered-upward-500000-drop-cadillac?utm_source=weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201122&utm_content=hero-image

    How dumb is that? It’s GM dumb.

    Explanation for the slower regulars:

    So GM is spending zillions to develop EVs and converts Caddy to an ‘electric only’ division.

    And now it offers any EV-wary Dealers (who have seen GM’s previous DISMAL results selling BEVs and are worried this will continue) $500,000 EACH, to DROP Caddy from their dealership.

    After seeing how poorly VW and other brands do because they do not have ENOUGH dealers, now GM tries to CONDEMN Caddy to the same fate, which will make FAILURE even worse.

    How soon will the corrupt Congress FLEECE me AGAIN to bail GM out again?

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    52 Here’s a link that is not behind an expensive pay wall.

    https://www.autonews.com/dealers/ev-wary-dealers-offered-upward-500000-drop-cadillac

    It seems that small dealer networks work for “premium” brands like M-B, BMW, and Lexus, so maybe it would work for Cadillac. Yeah, more mainstream brands like VW and Mazda are hurt by having so few dealers.

  56. Kit Gerhart Says:

    53 Well, that link worked when it came up on a google search, but it won’t work from here. Sorry about that.

  57. Lambo2015 Says:

    28 I’m not scoffing at GM releasing so many EVs. I’m just not seeing the demand and I think consumers are either going to have to accept a new average transaction price over 50K for a vehicle of soon forget about a new vehicle. My comment was more about that GM was showing working driving prototypes of the Lyric and Hummer and with production dates years out. I think GM was holding them back for some other reason so glad to see they will be bringing them to market sooner. Question still remains will there be enough buyers?

  58. Lambo2015 Says:

    Wow 7 comments to show their unwavering love to Elon. Yet still never answered my question how the great Tesla is making a profit without the carbon credits? Oh that’s right because they are not. They float along on the profits of the dirty ICE’s of other manufacturers that need credits from Tesla. Lucky for Tesla they do not make any ICEs and do not need to offset any of its own production so every credit they get they can sell. Otherwise they would be selling model 3s at $50,000 like the competition.

    That’s fact not hate for Elon. I have never once discredited the accomplishments of Elon and Tesla. What he has done is truly amazing. His business plan is solid and works but that doesn’t mean his EVs are anymore profitable than GM or anyone else. He is in a very great position that he was never an ICE manufacturer and doesn’t have that core business to maintain. He benefits from the advantages of the EVs and carbon credits without the burden other manufacturers have.
    Tesla very much does have a cult like following similar to Apple. Apple is smart in a similar sense that they offer functions with their phone that can only be done with other apple phones. So it promotes a community type environment and apple owners want their friends and family to also have apple to be able to use these features. Does it mean the Apple phone is better than an android? Not really and I’ve owned both and felt the Android was actually better when it came to maneuvering and just doing things. Something I could do on my android in two steps often takes 4 or five steps with my apple. But the Apple does have features that promote that group mentality. Tesla has capitalized on that and yes people will buy a Tesla to be part of that group and even overlook fit and quality items. As many have pointed out though. That can only sustain customers for a while and when many others enter the market with similar products of better quality. Like many fad things once it appears the non-cool people have them its out just as quickly as it was the in thing. Tesla should be worried about that more than anything.

  59. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    My only problem with TESLA is that they produce poor quality cars with economy car interiors, forgettable styling, luxury car prices, and have extremely questionable business ethics. Other than those issues Tesla is probably all right.

  60. cwolf Says:

    Some dealers may drop their Caddy franchise, but that doesn’t mean other larger dealers won’t purchase them.
    A growing concern for the EV manufacturers and dealerships are the new laws allowing repair shops access to programs needed to diagnose repairs. This will certainly cut into dealer service and body repair departments profits.
    Dropping the Caddy franchise would be a wise move for some dealers.

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