AD #3203 – Lucid Air Is in A League of Its Own; Kia Teases Concept EV9; Inmotive 2-Speed EV Transmission Update
November 12th, 2021 at 11:52am
Listen to “AD #3203 – Lucid Air Is in A League of Its Own; Kia Teases Concept EV9; Inmotive 2-Speed EV Transmission Update” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:54
0:08 The Great Automotive Schism
1:13 GM Announces 10 EVs For South Korea
2:07 Monitor Says UAW Falling Short in Reform Efforts
3:31 Inmotive Shares 2-Speed EV Transmission Update
4:53 Kia Teases Concept EV9
5:21 Hyundai Resto-Mods 1986 Grandeur Sedan
6:02 Toyota Celebrates 25 Years of RAV4 In the U.S.
6:42 Porsche Plans 3rd Taycan Variant
7:47 Lucid Air Dream Edition Is in A League of Its Own
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
THE GREAT AUTOMOTIVE SCHISM
You know the saying. ‘United we stand, divided we fall.’ Well, I think we can call this the Great Automotive Schism. Automakers from around the world are split over getting rid of the internal combustion engine by 2040. It all came out of that climate change conference in Glasgow. Various countries, cities, automakers and others pledged to get rid of the ICE in cars and vans worldwide by 2040, and in developed markets by 2035. The major automakers who took the pledge are Ford, General Motors, Mercedes, BYD, Jaguar Land Rover and Volvo. But look who’s not on the list. Volkswagen, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Stellantis, Hyundai and everyone else. This is going to cause bad blood between the different groups. We saw that happen in the U.S., when four automakers backed California’s fuel economy standard and the others did not. And now we’re going to see it happen on a global basis. The “yeses” and the “nos” will be attacking each other in the court of public opinion.
GM ANNOUNCES 10 EVs FOR SOUTH KOREA
Well, this is going to piss off the unions in South Korea. GM’s Steve Kiefer, who runs the company’s International Operations, made a speech there yesterday. He announced that GM will launch 10 electric vehicles in South Korea by 2025. But it’s not going to make any of them there. Keep in mind that GM manufactures 600,000 cars a year in South Korea. And it’s had nothing but labor problems there for decades. Same goes for Hyundai and Kia. They’re always running into problems with Korean unions. But Steve Kiefer also told the media “We are not announcing any plans yet to produce electric vehicles in the country, so stay tuned for that.” Sounds like a bargaining tactic to us. GM will dangle out the possibility of making EVs in Korea, as long as the union agrees to specific productivity targets.
MONITOR SAYS UAW FALLING SHORT IN REFORM EFFORTS
Speaking of unions, the bad news continues to pour in for the UAW. An independent monitor who was appointed to oversee the UAW after its corruption probe, says the union is falling short in its reform efforts. He said it’s not doing enough “to respond to repeated warnings about the pressing need to transform its culture.” We think that if the union doesn’t clean up its act fast, the Justice Department is going to step in and force it to happen.
INMOTIVE SHARES 2-SPEED EV TRANSMISSION UPDATE
About a year ago, we were introduced to a Canadian company, called Inmotive, that’s working on a two-speed transmission for EVs. And one of the folks there reached out to us to share a few updates. It changed the shape of one of the sprockets inside the trans, which uses a design that was inspired by bicycle derailleurs, the thing that bumps the chain when shifting. But the outer gear of Inmotive’s transmission also moves out of the way in segments during a shift. This, along with active control of the electric motor, results in near imperceptible shifts because the chain is always in constant contact. Right now, the company is testing it on a vehicle with an electric motor that produces about 150 Nm and claims during normal driving on streets it’s transmitting 1,500 Nm through the trans. As a motor that size might suggest, Inmotive is eying a passenger vehicle in the mass market and at that scale its transmission would only cost about $150. But it says it could be scaled down to something as small as an e-bike and has data that shows it could double the motor output for more powerful vehicles. Inmotive expects to have the whole system worked out by the middle of 2023 and says its setup improves range by 7-15% and acceleration by 15%.
KIA TEASES CONCEPT EV9
Kia will have a new EV on display at the LA auto show next week. This is the Concept EV9, an all-electric SUV that hints at a future production model. The styling is very angular and large fenders over the wheels give it a more aggressive, off-road vibe. Again, on the interior, we see another automaker copying the yoke steering wheel. But it’s also a clean design with a long, thin display screen mounted on the dash.
HYUNDAI RESTO-MODS 1986 GRANDEUR SEDAN
Sticking with the Hyundai Group for a moment, Hyundai is celebrating the 35th anniversary of its flagship sedan, the Grandeur, by resto-modding a 1986 model with an all-electric powertrain. It features most of its original exterior design and is tied into its new electric vehicles with a similar pixelated lighting signature. But it still looks like a car from that era. The same can’t be said of the interior. It’s been converted into an ultra-modern luxury space with digital display screens and even a gear selector inspired by planes. And Hyundai says it has plans to do more of these vehicles, what it calls the Heritage Series.
TOYOTA CELEBRATES 25 YEARS OF THE RAV4 IN THE U.S.
Believe it or not, the Toyota RAV4 is 25 years old. It first went on sale in the U.S. in 1996, and is now in its fifth-generation. To celebrate its anniversary, it’s getting a few updates, new trim and colors. A new lower priced hybrid trim line is available which includes monotone paint, fabric seats and a seven-inch touchscreen with six speakers. Pricing for the 2022 RAV4 will be announced in the middle of December. The RAV4 is far and away the best-selling model Toyota has in the U.S. Through the first nine months of the year, more than 313,000 have been sold, up 4.5% compared to a year ago, pretty impressive considering the chip shortage.
PORSCHE PLANS 3RD TAYCAN VARIANT
Porsche is going to introduce a third body style for the Taycan at the LA auto show. So we know there’s the Taycan and the Taycan Cross Turismo. So what could a third body style be? A 2-door? A convertible? A bigger SUV? Porsche isn’t saying. But what do you think it’s going to do? We’d like to know.
John got to drive the Lucid Air Dream Edition and coming up next he’ll tell you why that car is in a league of its own.
LUCID AIR DREAM EDITION IS IN A LEAGUE OF ITS OWN
I got a chance to test drive the Lucid Air two days ago and was wowed by the experience. I’m not the only one. Everyone who’s driven the car walks away with a sense of wonder and feeling a little giddy. And it’s all about the performance. Yes, the Air has attractive styling. Yes, it has interior appointments better than any Tesla. And yes, it has impressive connectivity. But there are 1,111 reasons that set this sedan apart from all the others. That’s the max horsepower you can dial up in the Dream Edition, which is what I was driving.
And let me tell you, it’s a wonderful feeling to have 1,000 horsepower at your beck and call. The acceleration is like nothing you’ve ever experienced. It’s a pure sensation of speed. No induction noise. No exhaust note. No engine straining at the redline. Just pure speed. The world suddenly rushes past the windshield at a rate you’ve never seen before.
And while the Lucid Air is very quick off the line, that’s not where you really appreciate what it can do. At a 50 mile an hour roll, when you punch it, the rate of acceleration is exhilarating. You’ll let out a “whoop!” Even at a 70 mile an hour roll, it rockets forward like it’s being catapulted off a carrier.
And this makes driving fun. Not just for the sensation of speed, but because it makes driving a joy. You need to get around that car in front of you? Just do it. There’s an opening up ahead in traffic? Just put the car there. It’s so fast you can do it without a moment’s hesitation. With 1,000 horses on tap, the Lucid Air is the automotive equivalent of air superiority. You’re in command of the road, and there’s nothing that anyone else can do about it.
That’s going to sell cars. People are going to want to experience this. It takes performance to a whole new level, and people get excited about that.
Now, that doesn’t mean that Lucid the car company is an automatic success. It’s way too early to make that call. But first impressions count for a lot, and Lucid just put everyone on notice that it’s here to play hardball.
And with that we wrap up a week of Autoline Dailies. Thanks for watching and remember, we’ll be right back here again on Monday.
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Comments (37)
November 12th, 2021 at 12:28 pm
Sean, Why would gm offer new products to plants that have constant union troubles? You told us that many many plants are going to close as EV production increases. Wouldn’t each OEM keep the plants that have the fewest issues?
November 12th, 2021 at 12:30 pm
As much as I’d love to see a Taycan coupe, I suspect the business experts will give us an Outback-like variant for 3 reasons – lower investment, higher revenue, and it won’t tread on the 911.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:37 pm
Drew’s logic makes sense but I’d also love to see a real coupe, cut down to 2 seats, 2 doors and minimal overhangs. Too bad it isn’t going to happen.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:42 pm
I find the behavior of the major automotive “pledge makers” akin to behavior observed over the years when I worked industry where some managers would promise anything and everything to curry favor among the company leaders, in hopes that when those promises were due, those leaders would be either gone or have short memories. Over-optimism at best, in most cases simply pandering.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:51 pm
I’m going out on a limb here, but I think John liked the Lucid!
November 12th, 2021 at 12:57 pm
First thing that popped into my mind when the picture of the Hyundai Grandeur popped onto my screen was: K-car!
November 12th, 2021 at 12:58 pm
Historically the best automotive technology is available on the worst vehicle in 10 years hence if we look at the best technology today like in Lucid, Tesla, Porsche, Ferrari it will be available on everything in 2031 the world is a changing
November 12th, 2021 at 12:58 pm
@5 yes, and the video and John’s report were great. I am wondering how quick a 0-60 mph is with a 1,000 hp. It was not mentioned in teh segment. John, do you know? Or are you still dizzy from the acceleration?
November 12th, 2021 at 12:58 pm
Automotive News has reported on the new Taycan variants in today’s article on the upcoming LA Auto Show:
“Porsche will show two new variants of the Taycan, including a wagon-style electric sedan. Unlike the Cross Turismo model, the long-roof Sport Turismo version will not offer off-road capabilities.
Porsche will also show a GTS variant that will slot just below the Taycan Turbo. It will be powered by a 93.4-kWh battery and have sporty styling and handling.”
November 12th, 2021 at 12:59 pm
@4 exactly. If you would sponsor me now I will be Nascar champion in 2040.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:23 pm
John, the Lucid is a beautiful car, but I wish you would have mentioned the price, $169,000. At that price its easier to get the budget to work on every detail to perfection. But how many are you going to sell at that price? Yes, I know there are cheaper models coming, but they will not be a nice or as capable. Also with big advances in batteries coming in the next few years this car will have huge deprecation.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:25 pm
At 170K do you really expect a car to not be spectacular, but no real sales impact on real people who need a car.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:25 pm
I vote for a wagon version of the Taycan. Easier to convince the family that you’re getting a practical family car…
November 12th, 2021 at 1:32 pm
Lucid will likely be sold out for quite a while. You need one outstanding feature for selling. With them having the longest range along with ok/unique interior/exterior styling and crazy speed (like Tesla Plaid). Folks with crazy money will gobble them up.
In the medium term we need to watch their reliability and see the volume increase. Not sure if we will see them on TURO for a while though
November 12th, 2021 at 1:38 pm
Wow John, with all the vehicles that you have test drove, your exuberance and excitement for this vehicle speaks volumes! That’s why I don’t understand when people say that BEVs will be uninteresting and lacking character. Yes, I do get that ICE vehicles, especially sports cars, have engine and exhaust noise that EV will not have and weight may/will be an issue. Yet, that’s not to say there are other things to enjoy and appreciate when it comes to driving EVs. Sure, just having speed may get old for some! But the end of the ICE does not have to be the end of automotive excellence and the freedom and joy of driving, just because we move around in BEVs.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:40 pm
2 Isn’t the current Cross Turismo kind of an Outback variant?
November 12th, 2021 at 1:48 pm
No one really knows what market share EVs will have in 15-20 years, or if there will even be enough batteries, power electronics, or other things available to completely phase out ICEs. The car companies are just making, or not making “pledges” based on their current tentative plans, with some politics thrown it.
November 12th, 2021 at 2:05 pm
Great 1100 HP in a street car. people can’t handle 250 HP without causing a catastrophe. The old saying still holds true a High performance car in the hands of a low performance driver equals tragedy.
November 12th, 2021 at 2:30 pm
@16 – The Cross Turismo is more like a shooting brake… a sporty wagon-ish car. An “Outback” variant would raise the ride height for easier ingress/egress (to accommodate Porsche’s aging Baby Boomer clientele) and claim a CUV price premium (on top of Porsche’s brand cache premium).
November 12th, 2021 at 2:50 pm
19 The Cross Turismo is lifted, but only slightly, .8 inch from the regular Taycan, and no RWD version is sold.
November 12th, 2021 at 3:08 pm
Hey John I concur with others here who say 1100 horsepower in the hands of a low performance driver will be catastrophic. I watch driver now cutting across lanes and driving in the breakdown lane to use their powerful ICE vehicles, what does 1100 horsepower and instantaneous acceleration hold for the future. My prediction is a lot of rear end collisions where the driver stepped on the “power” (can’t call it a “gas” pedal can we?) and was blown away and drove right through a car in front of them. Especially some 16 year old kid driving his parents super cool car with no experience.
November 12th, 2021 at 3:12 pm
best show ever,that was fun
November 12th, 2021 at 4:10 pm
@21: ever heard of brake assist, which is a standard feature/cheap option on most higher end cars? It is even a standard feature on my wife’s Mustang Mach-e.
I am not alleging that it is impossible to crash a 1,000 hp Lucid, but the potential damage is small based on the low number of those vehicles that will be sold and the few miles those will actually be driven. I am not aware of “traffic fatalities because of Ferraris and Lamborghinis” being a significant part of our annual 30,000 deaths. Are you?
Any of the 300 million vehicles in the country in the hands of a bad driver or an impaired driver is a deadly weapon.
November 12th, 2021 at 4:18 pm
@20 – Back when Subaru sold both Legacy wagons and Outbacks, the Outback had slightly more the 2-1/2 of more ground clearance. I’s say that is is absolute minimum ride height increase to claim a derivative is a CUV.
November 12th, 2021 at 4:21 pm
@23 – Brake assist is not very effective at high delta Vs.
November 12th, 2021 at 4:41 pm
24 Yeah, they’d need more lift, and more black plastic to do a true Outback version.
Years ago, I was considering a Legacy wagon, but I reconsidered when they made 4wd mandatory in the early 1990s.
November 12th, 2021 at 5:47 pm
What tires are they putting on a1000hp car that will hold? I had to upgrade to serious summer performance tires to handle 355hp in a 5,000lb truck!
November 12th, 2021 at 6:20 pm
27 The Lucid will use some specially developed tires from Pirelli. I doubt that hard cornering will be a strong point.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132928_lucid-air-ev-focused-pirelli-tires-help-enable-range-performance-refinement
November 12th, 2021 at 7:55 pm
Hyundai Grandeur looks like an old LTD!!
November 12th, 2021 at 8:16 pm
Car manufacturers are discovering that every serious EV they make gets sold in spite of dealers. So let us have them all from EV supercars to basic people carriers. Just no more of those low quality compliance cars … a waste of labor and material.
November 13th, 2021 at 8:24 am
29 It reminded me more of a mid-’80s Chrysler LeBaron, the top-of-the-line K-car.
November 13th, 2021 at 2:50 pm
Now that the proverbial “cat is out of the bag” with 1111hp BEV, the question will be ‘how quickly can someone produce a compact/midsize vehicle, with one third the hp, with 400 to 500 miles of range, for less then $50K’! Most everyday drivers do not care about zero to 60 times, but even with 20-to-80% recharges times lasted 20 minutes, I believe this would be acceptable for many for this new technology! That would be the game changer the market needs!
There is a lot of talk of the crucial materials needed to build batteries for EVs and there not being enough to meet future demands. Yet, remember, EVs are less then 5% of the market now and they have a loooong way to go before they are mainstream, well after 2030! So to put the brakes of this type of development now because of potential shortages of the future, would be like telling OEMs of the 60s,70s and 80s, to stop developing ICE engines due to the oil crisis! It was that crisis that spurred better development. Yes, there needs to be concern and focus on the availability of materials to build future BEVs, but that should be tempered with work on making the batteries and motors of today more efficient and easily reusable, as they explore more options for the future. Just a thought.
November 13th, 2021 at 4:01 pm
I’ve had my Corvette almost 3 weeks, have never tested the 0-60 time, and may never test it. The Lucid Air is impressive, but at 2 1/2 times the price of the Corvette, it seems kind of pricey. Yeah, the Lucid is roomier and, presumably quieter, but a Corvette is much better for driving 1100 miles in 17 hours, as long as you don’t want to take to many people or too much stuff.
I can’t help but think it will be a big reach to increase the global supply of batteries for EVs 20-fold in 15-20 years, both for raw material supplies, and manufacturing capacity. It seems to be hard to even increase silicon IC production by 20% in a year or two.
November 14th, 2021 at 9:15 pm
A side note: you may have covered Plasma Technologies already, but if not, they’ve been showcased on various Youtube channels for their new “solid state Hydrogen” storage system (using film cylinders). Their tech’s still in development but once ironed out would greatly simplify Hydrogen storage on board a vehicle.
November 15th, 2021 at 7:42 am
Excellent Autoline This Week: “Can The U.S. Compete With China?” Some of this will probably make it to “Autoline Daily” but it’s worth the time to see it in its entirety.
To: John McElroy; good one, this!
November 15th, 2021 at 7:48 am
I like the Lucid Air sedan way more than the Tesla Model S. The interior is actually designed for real humans and has actual luxury features and style for the luxury price you are paying for this car. Hopefully this means that the Model S will get some actual interior style and luxury features to justify its steep price. Something more than a cheap looking video screen at least.
November 17th, 2021 at 1:58 pm
I love your show, but is it necessary to keep using the term “piss” as in “pissed” or “pissed off”? VERY UNPROFESSIONAL! I’m no prude, but if I used this word in my line of work when dealing with the public, I’d be reprimanded the first time and fired the second time. I don’t believe it’s too much to ask for you as the host and announcer to be professional in your delivery.