AD #3330 – Battery Swapping Hits Tipping Point in China; Lucid Says Rivian Needs to Raise Prices; Two Neat Features on Niro EV

May 23rd, 2022 at 11:43am

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Listen to “AD #3330 – Battery Swapping Hits Tipping Point in China; Lucid Says Rivian Needs to Raise Prices; Two Neat Features on Niro EV” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 11:22

0:08 Lucid Says Rivian Needs to Raise Prices
1:05 BMW Seeks Alternatives to Russian Gas
1:46 Auto Suppliers Rate Stellantis Poorly
2:48 American Axle Denies It’s Up for Sale
4:07 Battery Swapping Hits Tipping Point in China
5:02 BYD To Launch Super Lux Brand
5:32 Hummer SUV Turns Tighter Than Honda Civic
6:13 Einride Semi Trailer for EV Power
7:06 Average U.S. Car Now 12.2 Years Old
8:25 Two Neat Features on Kia Niro EV

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30 Comments to “AD #3330 – Battery Swapping Hits Tipping Point in China; Lucid Says Rivian Needs to Raise Prices; Two Neat Features on Niro EV”

  1. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I think that they should go ahead with battery swapping, but start with fleet vehicles, taxi’s, delivery vehicles, police cars, etc. If it works out great, then the public would see that it works well (or not) and will clamor for it (or pass).

  2. bwellis Says:

    John, what is old is new again, check out a 67 Ford wagon to see the D pillar aero blade 55 years ago…..

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Sean or John, do you have any videos showing how the battery swapping works, like how the batteries are held in place on the car, the batteries are accurate lined up to attach, how the connectors work, etc.?

  4. Lex Says:

    I think Tesla should buy up Charge Point and other EV recharging companies in North America to diversify and expand it’s ability to provide charging locations to all brands of EV’s.

    I personally would not want my vehicle put through the EV battery swapping process. As charging times shorten that battery swapping technology will become obsolete IMHO.

  5. Lambo2015 Says:

    So the already expensive EV truck and SUV from Lucid will lose money? Just not looking good for EVs.

    American Axle is like any other company. Not up for sale unless a good enough offer comes along. If they are not diversified to prepare for this shift to EVs they may want to cash out before the tombstone is carved.

    Battery swapping does seem like a good option for fleets but what works in China isn’t always a great fit for the rest of the world. I honestly don’t see it being a viable option here in the US for the average consumer.

    On the Einride trailer. Seems like the most important part of that story was left out and I’m guessing it was intentional. What does this trailer weigh? Also they should probably look at where most trailers are damaged and they may realize the below frame mid section may not be a great place for batteries.

  6. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    2) Your post made me instantly think about liability. Who gets to be held liable if a swap caused a problem where a vehicle was destroyed or a customer hurt/injured? I am sure a battery swap shop will be named in a lawsuit along with everyone else that lawyers typically pull into law suits after accidents.

    Liability may not be very strong in China, but it sure is in the USA.

  7. GM Veteran Says:

    Seems that Peter Rawlinson has his hands full getting more Lucid cars built. I am very surprised that he has the time to comment on a competitor. Also, we should all take it with a big grain of salt since his comments are based on a number of assumptions. After all, he does not work at Rivian or have access to their internal documents or purchasing records.

  8. John McElroy Says:

    #2. We’ve run several clips. Here’s the most recent from Autoline Daily that starts around the 2:52 mark.

    http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=80745

  9. GM Veteran Says:

    No one I know that works in the industry will be a bit surprised at Stellantis anchoring the bottom of these survey rankings. I have seen them pull more dirty tricks on suppliers than I ever thought corporate ethics would allow. It is surprising that any suppliers still want to bid on their business.

  10. motorman Says:

    trump warned them what could happen with the gas supply from russia. trump was right again.

  11. GM Veteran Says:

    John, thank you for the Kia Niro piece. Always cool to learn about new vehicle features! And getting a volume knob back is a nice step in the right direction. Seems to me like the Niro strikes a nice balance with that double-duty control panel.

  12. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    9) The ones who bid on Stellantis business just charge them more money than they would the other OEMs who know what they are doing. You simply account for the added complication of working with Stellantis in piece price. I am certain that this is why their buyer got fired. Their buyer did not save them money with these rules. These rules did not result in increased quality. In fact, the very opposite was happening. Lower quality for a higher price was the result of these backwards rules from their buyer. Had these rules resulted in savings/quality, that buyer would still be employed and most likely promoted by Stellantis.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 Thanks, John. I guess I should watch the show more often, rather than reading the transcript as I often do.

  14. DFord Says:

    Cars getting older? My newest car is an ’03. I also have an ’02 and an ’01. My truck is a ’91.

  15. merv Says:

    those were 2 very cool features on that Kia. It always reminds me how clever some of these people are

  16. Frank Bohanan Says:

    Some Infiniti and Nissan models have had similar buttons/switches to the Kia which allow you to toggle between the HVAC, audio, and other functions for a while. My 2014 Infiniti Q50 Hybrid even has dual screens to allow even more flexibility/capability in selecting features.

  17. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Niro EVs have the same fire prone batteries as the Chevy Bolt, but didn’t get the bad publicity. That may be because they don’t sell many in the US, or at least didn’t sell many.

  18. ArtG Says:

    2. WRT liability, I’d guess the same rules would apply that are currently in place. Cars do fall off conventional lifts. You can Google it. I’d also think that customers might not be allowed to place the cars onto the battery changing platform.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    18 I haven’t personally seen a battery swapping station but I would think the idea would not require the driver to exit the vehicle. No need to place it on a hoist. There would be little risk of damage as the car would never move. All swapping is underground. Either way I believe what Merkur was referring to was improper installation. Like if there would be a battery fire, certainly the swapping station could be at fault.
    Personally I think Americans view there vehicles in a more personal manner than other countries. Not sure battery swapping will be very attractive. Its changing though and as vehicles become more appliance like have less style and human connection they will become less important.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It would seem like battery swapping would add weight and complexity, and sacrifice space efficiency and structural stiffness of the vehicle. In addition to cost reduction, the reason most smart phones no longer have easily swappable batteries, is so a larger battery will fit in a device of the same size, space efficiency, as it were.

  21. Lambo2015 Says:

    20 Good point! Funny how one industry goes through the learning curve and ends up with battery specific to the device and now the Auto industry needs to go through the same curve.
    Yea I think for all the advantages of swapping there are just as many if not more disadvantages. In about the time it takes to put in enough swapping stations battery tech will figure out how to do a quick charge and make them obsolete. Would be a risky investment I would think.

  22. Albemarle Says:

    17. Small correction: Kona’s have the same LG batteries but Niro’s have a different battery.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 Thanks for info. I thought both Kona and Niro had that battery.

  24. JoeS Says:

    Call me an old curmudgeon but I think one of the worst “advances” on new cars are the touchscreens. Making a touchscreen do double duty seems like a bad idea. Buttons and dials please! My ‘15 Silverado wt has no touchscreen and all the radio, HVAC controls are easy to use by feel. My wife’s TourX has a touchscreen that I feel is slow to get started and cumbersome to use. Maybe we have not made use of some of the programming features that might make it better.

  25. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I’m wondering what a battery swap would cost; just the charge for the electricity used and some nominal exchange fee or an inflated electricity charge with free exchange. How do they gauge your trade-in battery; capacity left, age of battery unit, can you get a half charge or other percentage. Wonder what the flexibility is (or isn’t).

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 I assume the batteries they install are full, but do you get credit for turning in a battery with 40% rather than 10% charge?

    I wouldn’t want battery swapping, no matter how they do it. I don’t trust places to change oil, and the idea of having a thousand pound battery changed every few days doesn’t sound appealing at all.

  27. Bobby T Says:

    @24: couldn’t agree more. I have to stop my car just to change radio stations. There are so many features on todays cars that I suspect many people just don’t bother to use them. I’m certainly in that category.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    24,27 My GM and Toyota cars both have volume knobs. The Toyota has a tuning knob as well. Both have steering wheel buttons for volume, and steering wheel controls to go through radio presets. Both work pretty well, but they are different, something to deal with when switching between cars. I usually use the rotary knobs for volume, and the touch screen “buttons” for presets. If I had only one of the cars, I’d probably use the steering wheel controls more.

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    24-27 I think the infotainment systems are getting better however I still find the connection apps like Apple carplay and Android auto need a bit more refining. I understand they are trying to avoid distracted driving but its super frustration when you have your phone connected on a trip. You’ve synced your phone so the map is showing on the display screen and you decide you want to search for a gas station, restaurant or just something along the way. System wont allow my passenger to modify anything while the car is in motion so you need to disconnect make your changes and then reconnect. I also don’t like that my display screen doesn’t return to the radio as a default. Just silly annoyances like that.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 I find that I rarely use android auto in my Toyota, because it is wired, rather than wireless as in the Corvette. I don’t know if all GM cars have wireless android auto and apple car play, or just more expensive ones like Corvette. Also, I don’t know about Toyota. Maybe higher trim Highlanders have it, or what. I suspect within a couple years, nearly all new vehicles will have wireless android auto and apple car play.