AD #3345 – Environmentalists Turning Against Toyota; BMW Tests Innovative Battery; Could Silverado Outsell F-150?
June 14th, 2022 at 11:57am
Listen to “AD #3345 – Environmentalists Turning Against Toyota; BMW Tests Innovative Battery; Could Silverado Outsell F-150?” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:14
0:07 OEMs Want Congress to Lift Cap for EV Incentives
0:42 China Considers Extending EV Incentives
1:26 Environmentalists Turning Against Toyota
2:12 Could Silverado Outsell F-150?
3:46 Michigan Approves Digital License Plates
4:32 Chevrolet Teases Blazer EV
5:03 Geely to Launch Luxury EV Pickup
5:39 BMW Tests Innovative Battery
7:12 Stellantis Leaving the ACEA
8:28 Porsche Cayenne Could Have Been a Mercedes
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
OEMs WANT US CONGRESS TO LIFT EV INCENTIVE CAP
Automakers are making massive investments in electric vehicles. And while publicly they’re gung-ho on EVs, behind the scenes they’re worried about selling enough of them. General Motors, Ford, Stellantis and Toyota want Congress to lift the cap on EV tax credits that gives consumers up to a $7,500 incentive to buy an electric vehicle. But that phases out once a manufacturer sells 200,000 EVs. GM and Tesla already hit the cap and Toyota and Ford are expected to hit it soon.
CHINA CONSIDERS EXTENDING EV INCENTIVES
Same goes for China. Even though it leads the world in EV sales, the government is worried they could slow down. So the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology is looking at extending tax exemptions for new energy vehicles or NEVs. China classifies battery electric, plug-in hybrid and fuel cell vehicles as NEVs. The tax exemption is set to expire at the end of the year. It was implemented in 2014 and has already been extended twice, after it was supposed to be eliminated. Thanks in part to those incentives sales of NEVs are up 111% compared to a year ago.
MORE ENVIRONMENTALISTS TURN AGAINST TOYOTA
Poor Toyota. It used to be the darling of the environmental community, what with all the pioneering work it did with hybrids. At one point the Prius was the go-to car for anyone who wanted to show off their environmental street cred. Not anymore. Now environmentalists are blasting the company for dragging its feet on electric cars. And that criticism is moving from the public arena to the financial arena. Reuters reports that European pension funds are criticizing Toyota for lobbying against regulations to fight climate change. And that led some investors to head for the exits. Toyota’s stock is down nearly 6% this week.
COULD SILVERADO OUTSELL F-150?
The Ford F-150 has been the best selling model in the American market for 41 straight years. But could this be the year it loses that title? GM CEO Mary Barra told shareholders that it’s selling every truck it can make. In fact, GM is increasing production to meet demand. Meanwhile, Ford seems to be struggling to get the chips it needs. And an industry source tells us that the light duty Chevy Silverado outsold the Ford F-150 the past three months. We don’t have the official numbers because GM only reports sales on a quarterly basis. But we will have the numbers at the end of this quarter and then we’ll know which truck is out in front.
MICHIGAN GOES WITH DIGITAL LICENSE PLATES
Everything is going digital and that includes license plates. Michigan just became the third state, behind California and Arizona, to approve digital plates. Some of the benefits include GPS location and customization. But while you’ll own the physical plate, the message and plate number are owned by the state. And a subscription is required to display the number. It’s not cheap either. The cheaper, battery-powered version is $215 per year or it can be leased for just under $20 a month. These plates are made by a company called Reviver. We talked with them 4 years ago and we’ll provide a link to that video if you’d like to learn more.
CHEVROLET TEASES BLAZER EV
Here’s our best look yet at the new Chevy Blazer EV. While it’s only providing this one image, we can see the front end looks like an evolution of the current Blazer and that it has a fairly shapely body. This is the SS model, so some features might not be seen on other versions, like scalloped out air vent behind the front wheels. The Blazer EV will be fully revealed in a little over a month and will be available in the spring of next year.
GEELY TO LAUNCH EV PICKUP
Rivian says it needs to delay the production of its SUV because it can’t get parts. Well, it better hope to get its production back on track because it’s about to get some more competition. And no, we’re not talking about the F-150 Lightning or Cybertruck or Silverado EV, for that matter. Gasgoo reports that Geely is going to launch a new sub-brand, called RADAR, that will make high-end electric pickups. It’s said they’ll compete with the Rivian R1T, with the first model expected to launch sometime this year.
BMW TESTS INNOVATIVE EV BATTERY
BMW has partnered with a company that could nearly double the range of its new electric SUV, the iX. It signed an agreement with Our Next Energy or ONE to build a prototype of the vehicle equipped with its Gemini battery technology. We did an interview with ONE about a month ago where we learned that it’s using a hybrid battery system. Some of the modules are designed for the high demand of everyday driving, while the others are more suited for energy storage and cruising speeds. This helps provide more range. The iX is rated by the EPA at up to 324 miles of range. But BMW and ONE are shooting for 600 miles of range. The different cell chemistries also allow for a reduction in expensive materials, like lithium, graphite, nickel and cobalt. The prototype vehicle is scheduled to be done by the end of the year.
STELLANTIS LEAVING ACEA
Wow, here’s a weird one. Stellantis is leaving ACEA. That’s the European Automobile Manufacturers Association. It’s the lobbying group for the European auto industry that’s been around for over 30 years and all the car companies and truck manufacturers in Europe belong to it. That’s because there’s strength in numbers when the industry needs to make its voice known in political circles. But Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Stellantis, wants to set up his own lobbying forum. He calls it Freedom of Mobility. And once a year it’s going to hold a conference with various stakeholders to identify, and I quote, “how to bring clean, safe, and affordable freedom of mobility for society in the face of global warming implications.” End quote. Here’s our Autoline Insight. Carlos Tavares is openly critical of how Europe is pushing so hard and so fast to transition to electric cars. He wants more leeway and a longer runway to get there. And that’s what we think this conference is all about: getting the EU to ease off its EV mandate, and allow automakers to use more hybrids and plug-in hybrids.
PORSCHE CAYENNE COULD HAVE BEEN A MERCEDES
And this one is even weirder. Porsche is celebrating the 20th anniversary of the Cayenne, and it revealed that the project was originally going to be done with Mercedes-Benz. In fact, the Cayenne was going to be a derivative of the Mercedes M-Class. Even weirder, a minivan was seriously considered as an alternative to the SUV until Porsche USA shot that idea down. This was all happening around 1996. In the press release Porsche says it was working with Mercedes because it and Volkswagen were not yet part of the same group. But we need Porsche to explain that one because in 2011 Porsche became a subsidiary of Volkswagen AG. And that leads to another question. Why would Porsche talk now about how it came that close to developing a new car with Mercedes? Could it be because Porsche is likely to get spun off as a stand alone company and it wants to signal that it’s willing to work with other automakers who are not part of the Volkswagen Group? Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
And that brings us to the end of today’s show. Thanks for making Autoline a part of your day.
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Comments (50)
June 14th, 2022 at 12:24 pm
Will the Radar pickups sell in the US? The report was not specific. Its hard to imagine not hearing anything about this brand or vehicle till now if they are planning to start sales in the US market by the end of this year. Perhaps they will be sold through the fledgling retail network of sister brand Polestar?
June 14th, 2022 at 12:26 pm
I can think of many things I would spend additional money on for my vehicles, however the license plate is not one of them!
June 14th, 2022 at 12:29 pm
The styling changes to the Blazer in this EV SS model look great to me! (and I don’t say that about all GM products). Compared to the Model Y crossover, this one is the winner hands down.
June 14th, 2022 at 12:36 pm
It’s a bit hard to feel sorry for Toyota. Their arrogance is coming back to haunt them. I understand their workforce concerns but they could have at least pursued some electric vehicles as part of their fleet. They squandered their position of environmental leadership.
June 14th, 2022 at 1:06 pm
i agree with gm vetern. very smart and modern design. if it drives as nice as it looks they may have a winner.
June 14th, 2022 at 1:06 pm
i agree with gm vetern. very smart and modern design. if it drives as nice as it looks they may have a winner.
June 14th, 2022 at 1:06 pm
Digital license plate? Seems to me that this is a high-tech answer to a question that no one asked. Am I missing some compelling advantage?
June 14th, 2022 at 1:28 pm
Toyota is making a lot of great “interim” vehicles for those of us who can’t use an EV, because of lack of home charging, but want efficiency. I’m getting ~38 mpg in mixed, local driving with my Highlander hybrid, about twice what a friend is getting with his Enclave in similar driving.
Toyota hybrids are an interim solution for North America, though, more than Europe, which is on a much steeper trajectory with EVs. North America is Toyota’s biggest market, with Europe a distant 4th.
June 14th, 2022 at 1:37 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If it’s not a K5, it’s not a Blazer!
June 14th, 2022 at 1:41 pm
7 Digital plate advantage in the story says GPS location and customization. Which I think you can already get personalized plates. So only real advantage is another way for the state to track your vehicle. Not anything I would be interested in.
Toyota wont look so silly if BEV’s peak in the next couple years when people start to realize the disadvantages of BEV ownership and start clamoring for more HBEVs.
How do we know that EV incentives don’t just generate revenue for the OEM’s? If EVs can be sold for 30K but because there is a Gov incentive the OEM raises the price to 34K knowing the incentive still brings it down to 27K. Of course they are in favor of extending the incentives.
I say if they cannot be competitive on their own merit too bad.
June 14th, 2022 at 1:47 pm
i do like the new cars today with all the angles creases in the sides, i was at a red light and the car ahead of me looked like it had a big dent, when i got closer i seen it was not, i think toyota is smart to hold back, i have said this this ev thing is going to fast, that’s my 1 cent worth
June 14th, 2022 at 1:49 pm
i ment to say i do not like the new cars today
June 14th, 2022 at 2:03 pm
Lambo at #10 EXACTLY. Big Brother already watches our every move I won’t make it easier for them.
June 14th, 2022 at 2:06 pm
9 The K5 Blazer is now called Tahoe, but it has 4 doors.
June 14th, 2022 at 2:15 pm
I was watching The Fast Lane Truck Youtube channel. They picked up their new Lightning and are road tripping it from Michigan to Colorado 1300 miles . The stated range is 301 miles and so far they are getting about 10% less than that. They figure that the charging stops are going to add 6 hours minimum to the travel time. My old 98 F150 gets at least 375 miles to a tank . So it would take 4 fuel stops totaling less than a 1/2 hour. So does adding 5-1/2 hours to a trip sound good to anyone? Oh and the truck costs 80K as they ordered it. But us good old tax payers that can’t afford a new 40K car get to foot $7500 of the bill. I’m sorry but if you can consider buying something that expensive you shouldn’t get help to afford it. If you have to bribe somebody to buy something it obviously isn’t that attractive on it’s own merits.
June 14th, 2022 at 2:16 pm
I don’t particularly like EV tax incentives, but if they continue, they should be rebates, not “tax credits,” so everyone would be eligible, not just people with high enough income that they pay $7500 in income tax. Many, or most of those people don’t need the incentive anyway.
June 14th, 2022 at 2:30 pm
15 I wouldn’t like adding 6 hours to a 1300 mile road trip. I like going 400-500 miles per 5 minute stop, like with a Corvette or Highlander hybrid. The Lightning would be good for local use with home charging, for people who have some spare money to buy an $80K vehicle.
June 14th, 2022 at 2:58 pm
15 I feel they should use a sliding scale for Ev tax incentive if they do offer one. 35K and under gets 100% of the $7500rebate. 35-45K you get 75%, 45-55K 50% 55-65K you get 25% and over 65K you don’t need a rebate from tax payers.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:01 pm
15 I just watched some of the video, and a charger they showed cost 43 cents/kWh, more than 3 times most utility rates. That’s 21.5 cents a mile at the 2 miles/kWh they said they were getting. I know pickup trucks are gas hogs, but don’t modern ones get 23 mpg on the highway? If so, the fuel cost of a gas pickup would be would be about the same as the Lightning, using the commercial charger. Again, EVs make sense only you have home charging, and use it for most of your driving.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:04 pm
19 That is with $5/gallon gas. When gas is cheaper, the gas truck would be less expensive to run than the EV, using the commercial charger.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:10 pm
To me the credit needs to apply to vehicles under $35000 and then slide downwards to vehicles under $25000 after 5 years. Make the OEMs compete for the incentive. Right now it is just handing the OEM $7500 of tax payer money. All this to offset the purchase only the rich can afford and don’t really need. We should not be incentivizing $80,000 pickup trucks.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:10 pm
To me the credit needs to apply to vehicles under $35000 and then slide downwards to vehicles under $25000 after 5 years. Make the OEMs compete for the incentive. Right now it is just handing the OEM $7500 of tax payer money. All this to offset the purchase only the rich can afford and don’t really need. We should not be incentivizing $80,000 pickup trucks.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:13 pm
That hybrid battery is amazing. Its fun watching how all these things are developed.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:16 pm
After 41 years Chevy trucks could outsell Ford trucks. Lots of people at Chevrolet will be patting them selves on the back if that happens.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:40 pm
19 If anyone thought going electric was going to be a cost savings they’re a fool. An EV may have an advantage right now with a home charger and high gas prices. But just like anything else, once people switch over to electric the cost to charge will be as much if not more than we currently pay for gas. That tax on gas pays for things like road repair those things will still be needed. Going electric is only to get away from oil and improve air quality.
This was never about being a cost benefit to the consumer they just tried to push that as an advantage, because for now there is but it wont last.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:50 pm
@25 it will last because the oil reserves will continue to decrease and gasoline and diesel fuel will continue to rise. We have 1.8% of proven global oil reserves and our production amounts to 20% of global crude oil production. Pretty simple to understand that we will run out of oil ten time faster than the world average. Also pretty simple to understand what that will mean for gasoline prices over time.
We need to urgently get our electrical powergrid in order: with a shift of part of the energy needed for transportation to electricity and hopefully many vehicles charged overnight, we get a better balance between base load and peak load, so we can increase the importance of base load power which is cheaper and more reliable than peak load power generation. So we should build as many nuclear power plants as needed.
June 14th, 2022 at 3:57 pm
@26 so the future price for transportation boils down to the long term price increases of electricity versus oil based transportation fuels. I know as little as the next guy, but I bet on the price increase of electric power.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:04 pm
Kit @ 19 Yeah and I believe they it is a 150KW pack. So if you ran that all the way down it would cost $64.50 to completely top off the pack and at 301 miles per charge that means it is .21 cents a mile. So at $5 a gallon if you get 23 MPG it comes out to .21 a mile. exactly the same and your fueled up and gone in 10 minutes or less.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:15 pm
@28 when you charge during a rare road trip for which an EV is not suited, yet, at a charge rate which more than three times the rate you get at your home charging station.
That is not a pragmatic comparison. EVs are great for driving less than the range per day and charged overnight. My wife and I put 15,000 miles per year on her EV, drive an ICE vehicle for longer road trips. We save $0.18 per mile for those 15,000 miles per year by doing that and never have to spend any time at a gas station.
Please feel free to continue to make pointless comparisons to prove that EVs are worthless. Have a good time at the gas stations. I hate to go to a gas station to fill up the diesel tank of my daily driver which we also use for longer road trips. To each his own, though.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:18 pm
Our dealership has a very active commercial sales team that can sell every van/truck they can get their hands on. The three electric vans in stock have been sitting for months with not much interest.
I watched a news interview recently that showed off electric vehicles at a local govt facility. The interviewer (who already knew the answer) asked the politician where does the electricity come from. She answered ‘well, this building’. No, he persued how is the elcetricity made. Another politician admitted ‘by using coal’, just as the interview was abruptly cut off.
You can’t make this stuff up.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:23 pm
24 Many of those 41 years, Chevy plus GMC trucks, which are the same thing, have outsold Ford.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:29 pm
26 Yeah we can probably count on gas prices to continue to also increase. That doesn’t justify that an EV will likely not be a cost advantage. My whole point was the average person going 15K miles a year at 30 mpg is going to use 500 gallons of gas times $5 a gallon is $2500.
So when its all said and done we will all continue to spend $2500 or more to use our vehicles regardless if your driving an EV or not. I guarantee it.
To your point. Yes EVs are best suited as a second vehicle to be used for within range driving and charging at home with a spare ICE to use for trips which they work better for. Either way when EVs become mainstream don’t plan on it being cheaper to drive your car. It wont be.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:35 pm
@30 coal amounts to 25% of U.S. electrical power generation, but nice story.
I look at this from a practical point of view: a partial transition from ICE powered transportation to EVs takes at least three decades. We could wait with developing EVs until the power grid has been cleaned up which will probably take three decades, too. So you could reduce oil consumption in thirty years or in sixty years. As I mentioned earlier, with 20% of world oil production from 2% of proven global oil reserves it is obvious to me that you have to go for the quicker route.
June 14th, 2022 at 4:38 pm
@32 I am not planning on that
June 14th, 2022 at 4:50 pm
Test
June 14th, 2022 at 5:25 pm
IMHO, I think the BEV “Blazer” looks good too! It seems to have a bit of the Lotus Eletra in the grill area as well, to my eye. It definitely looks like a newer version of the ICE version, but with the dash-to-front axel ratio being greater! What I like about it most, is that it doesn’t seem to have been designed (from the looks of that one image) by a wind tunnel, as if they were attempting to get the highest efficiency possible! Thats not to say that it isn’t, though. It’s just that new Blazer and Equinox look like modern vehicles of today and not the jellybean or weird shapes of the EQS and iX. While I LOVED the EQS concept, the actual vehicle was a bit of a letdown. And let’s not even BEGIN to talk about the looks, styling and design of the iX!!! If the interior of the new Blazer looks as good and the exterior, as some one else said, Chevy has a definite hit on their hands!
June 14th, 2022 at 5:38 pm
26) it isn’t like lithium, cobalt, and a host of other rare earth materials are plentiful. The price of BEVs will go up dramatically as these sources run out long before oil. The electricity rates in my area jumped a staggering 100% overnight. There is zero market controls on electricity and the government proves every single day that they won’t control electric rates but will make sure energy companies maintain a monopoly. Enjoy your BEV.
June 14th, 2022 at 5:43 pm
@29 I wouldn’t say EVs worthless, but they sure as hell are not ready to replace ICE like all these Green New Deal wackos want. You realize that many manufacturers are stating as fact they will cease to make new ICE vehicle after 2030-2035 . I think that is very short sighted and this proves that point. EVs can be very good when used in conjunction with ICE. Why does it have to be one or the other? In cities Evs make great sense . In large expanses like out west they make less sense . If you can charge it overnight that’s great , but what about those with on street parking? There is no guarantee you even get a spot let alone where you could charge the car. It’s only a matter of time until drug addicts are stealing charging cords off the street for the copper to buy dope. If they’ll bust your window to get the 62 cents on your console you know they’ll steal a heavy gauge charging cable.
June 14th, 2022 at 6:06 pm
@37 There is a lot of lithium in the world, including in the U.S. Cobalt, Manganese and Nickel are the bottleneck and considered conflict metals.
An enormous amount of capital and human talent is allocated to new energy storage devices which will eliminate conflict metals from the equation. Among which the California based company Lyten, which has been featured by Autoline since a year: it is working on Lithium Sulfur batteries. Do not contain any conflict metals and would have a 2-3X energy density at the same price and weight. It has strong backing by venture capital funds, large private investors and with strong support by the U.S. Department of Defense. There are many other companies with developments free of conflict metals and with innovative recycling concepts.
I provide services to the advanced energy storage sector and therefore have had to put work into understanding the developments going on.
Declaring the advanced battery sector dependent on Ni, Co and Mn without actual knowledge and understanding of the market is shortsighted IMHO.
Fortunately, we the U.S., have the global frontrunner in EVs, have several frontrunners in energy storage technology, and have some of the major investors on our shores. Let’s be glad we do. If the investors and the executives of those companies would have been as ignorant and against change as most of the public, we as a country would have missed the boat again.
Now our market is just behind the rest of industrialized world, but at least we have several of the global industry leaders.
June 14th, 2022 at 6:10 pm
@38 who are those “all these Green New Deal wackos”?
June 14th, 2022 at 7:34 pm
AOC and company.
June 15th, 2022 at 4:57 am
The Chevrolet Blazer EV looks very nice.
Also, the minerals to supply batteries are quite abundant, but mines take years to get into gear.
LiFe based chemistries pose even less problems, and output is growing at a record pace.
Solar and wind power continue to be some of the cheapest electricity available. The output of installed generation capacity cannot simply rise.
Unlike that of natural gas set on the world market. Renewables actualy keep a lid on costs.
June 15th, 2022 at 4:59 am
Sigh. Apologies for being unintelligible in parts.
June 15th, 2022 at 7:57 am
Alrighty. What I meant to say is that the low costs of renewables compare even more favorably to natural gas now that the latter has doubled in price on the world market, which like oil dictates US prices.
June 15th, 2022 at 8:21 am
29 Yep, EVs work well now for most driving, for those with home charging. An EV would work for most of my driving in Florida, even using a 120v outlet, but even that is not available. Our board is looking into options.
June 15th, 2022 at 8:27 am
retest
June 15th, 2022 at 8:51 am
40 The wacko’s are the ones that want everyone to be driving EVs by 2030 without really thinking about the ramifications.
I believe most people can agree that EVs are promising and have a great future. They already work great for certain applications. What is very evident is they are not a viable 100% replacement for ICEs in all instances. Its finding that balance that is key. The amount of money being spent on energy storage is likely 100 times what it was 10 years ago. Everyone knows the man or (company) with the breakthrough battery will change everything. Until that time people need to understand that EVs have their place and that they do not work for everyone. It could many more years before its a viable option for some people in very remote locations. A breakthrough battery could change everything but until that time we need use common sense and not set ridiculous expectations to force people into a product that doesn’t work for them. All that will happen is people will hold onto the ICE vehicles causing used ICE prices to soar. Very short sighted of any OEM to say they wont produce anymore ICE on a given date at this point. How they all work together and fit into place is yet to be seen and will continue to change depending on battery technology. We are not at the place where they can fully replace ICEs yet and the wackos are ones that think they can.
June 15th, 2022 at 11:38 am
Shawn, this is not out of line for that period. Porsche built the wonderful 500E for Mercedes between 1990 and 1995.
June 15th, 2022 at 11:38 am
Shawn, this is not out of line for that period. Porsche built the wonderful 500E for Mercedes between 1990 and 1995.
June 15th, 2022 at 11:40 am
So essentially production of the 500E was coming to an end and Porsche was open to develop another product as a replacement in 1996.