AD #3446 – End of ICE Age Sales Frenzy; Geely’s $25,000 EV Pickup; VW’s New Type of Fuel Cell
November 10th, 2022 at 11:56am
Listen to “AD #3446 – End of ICE Age Sales Frenzy; Geely's $25,000 EV Pickup; VW's New Type of Fuel Cell” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:06
0:00 End of ICE Age Sales Frenzy
0:50 Alfa Tops JD Power Sales Satisfaction Index
1:52 Rivian’s Losses Growing
3:18 Volvo Adds Big EV SUV to Lineup
4:29 Honda Launches All-New Accord
5:32 Green Metals a Priority at Ford & Volvo
6:42 VW’s New Type of Fuel Cell
7:37 Geely’s $25,000 Pickup
8:37 Tesla Goes Zoom-Zoom-Zoom
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END OF ICE AGE SALES FRENZY
EVs are the fastest growing segment in the auto industry, and analysts expect them to really rocket forward from about the middle of 2024 until the end of 2027, as more and more EVs hit the market. But that could also trigger a surge in sales of ICE vehicles, or at least of certain models. Analyst Jeff Schuster from LMC Automotive says it’s entirely possible that as anti-EV consumers realize that their favorite internal combustion car or truck will be going out of production, they’ll race out to buy the last ones as fast as they can. And so piston powered cars and trucks could see a sales surge towards the end of the decade.
ALFA TOPS JD POWER SALES SATISFACTION INDEX
Alfa Romeo makes beautiful cars, but they haven’t sold that well because they don’t have a good reputation when it comes to reliability. But Alfa is starting to show signs of improvements, at least in the U.S. market. Alfa just topped J.D. Power’s Sales Satisfaction Index for the first time. The SSI, as it’s known, measures how well the dealer handled the sales process, so that doesn’t address the reliability issue. But even so, that’s a big win for Alfa. It beat out Porsche and Lexus. Buick topped the list among the mass market brands, ranking ahead of Dodge and Subaru. Two interesting findings from the SSI study: J.D. Power says buyers who special order a vehicle rather than buying what’s on the lot are a lot more satisfied; and dealers need to do a better job with EV customers. They reported lower satisfaction with the sales experience than people who bought gas powered vehicles.
RIVIAN’S LOSSES GROWING
Rivian posted its Q3 earnings and they show how hard it is to launch a new car company. It sold only 6,584 vehicles, bringing in $536 million in revenue. It lost $1.7 billion, which was 40% worse than a year ago. And it’s burning through roughly $1 billion in cash every quarter. Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says they still have enough cash on hand to last until the end of 2025. But Reuters cites an analyst from CFRA Research who says Rivian desperately needs to build up its production volume. He says Rivian’s cost of goods per vehicle is $220,000, but its trucks are selling for an average of $81,000.
VOLVO ADDS BIG EV SUV TO LINEUP
Volvo revealed its newest electric vehicle, the EX90. The 7-seater SUV features a 111 kWh battery paired with a two motor AWD system that generates 380 kW or 517 horsepower. The setup provides an estimated 600 kilometers of range on the WLTP cycle, which is roughly 372 miles. Other highlights include a large 14.5 display screen laid in portrait mode on the dash, bi-directional charging, Plug & Charge capability and assisted driving technology. Autonomous driving will be available in the future, which we think will be unlocked with an OTA update. The EX90 will first be made in the U.S. starting sometime next year and then later on in China as well. Depending on the market, customers will be able to buy it, lease it or subscribe to it and they’ll be able to do that both at the dealer and online. Volvo says with the introduction of the EX90, it will introduce one new fully electric car each year.
HONDA LAUNCHES ALL-NEW ACCORD
Speaking of new vehicles, Honda pulled the wraps off the new Accord. It’s longer by nearly 3 inches, slightly wider in the rear and sleeker than the outgoing model. We think the styling is a little more sophisticated as well. The interior takes inspiration from the new Civic, highlighted by the horizontal air vents that stretch across the middle of the dash, the three HVAC control knobs and a high-mounted, floating display screen. Higher end versions get a 12.3 inch unit, which is the largest Honda has ever offered. Under the hood is the option for two powertrains. The base is still a 1.5L turbo engine mated to a CVT, but both have been upgraded to reduce engine noise. The other is Honda’s dual-motor hybrid setup that pairs a 2.0L 4-cylinder engine with those motors and combines to produce just over 200 horsepower. I didn’t see anything in the press release about when the new Accord will be available, but it will continue to be made in the U.S.
GREEN METALS A PRIORITY AT FORD & VOLVO TRUCKS
Automakers are focusing more and more on creating a green, sustainable supply chain. And Ford and Volvo Trucks are the latest to make progress in sustainability. Ford is pledging that at least 10% of its aluminum and steel purchases by 2030 will have near zero-level carbon emissions. And Volvo Trucks is now delivering heavy-duty electric trucks to customers made with fossil free steel. The metal is produced by Swedish steel manufacturer SSAB using a new process with fossil-free electricity and hydrogen.
VW’S NEW TYPE OF FUEL CELL
Volkswagen is making huge investments in EVs, but it is also developing fuel cells with a German company called Kraftwerk Group. The unique thing about their stack is that it uses ceramic membranes, as opposed to polymer membranes like Hyundai and Toyota use. The ceramic membranes are cheaper to produce because they don’t require platinum. And the stack produces heat that can be used to run the HVAC system, making it even more efficient. The fuel cell is estimated to deliver an astonishing 2,000 kilometers of range. That’s more than 1,240 miles! Kraftwerk’s CEO says the fuel cell isn’t exclusive to Volkswagen and it plans on launching a model in 2026 “regardless of the manufacturer.” It wants to produce 10,000 vehicles spread across several brands.
GEELY’S $25,000 EV PICKUP
Pickup trucks have never been all that popular in China, but that could be about to change. Geely is launching an electric pickup called the RD6 that’s sold under the Radar brand name. It starts at less than $25,000 and tops out at $37,000. It sits on a dedicated EV platform with the top line trim offering a 140 kilowatt hour battery pack that will deliver 380 miles of range. It’s available in 2-wheel and 4-wheel drive. Max power is 536 horsepower with 566 pound feet of torque. It can haul a 1,700 pound payload and tow over 6,600 pounds. Those are pretty impressive specs with a very impressive price and it’s products like this that could get Chinese consumers interested in pickup trucks. That’s why Geely is considering doing an IPO with Radar.
TESLA GOES ZOOM-ZOOM-ZOOM
Ever had to deal with the stress of being stuck in traffic and late for a work meeting? Not anymore, at least not if you’re a Tesla owner. All new Tesla models will soon be able to handle Zoom calls. So, whether it’s an interview, work call or just chatting with friends, you’ll be able to video conference from inside your vehicle.
What are legacy automakers going to do with their ICE operations as the market transitions to electric vehicles? Volvo and Renault are already spinning off their ICE operations. So will the others do that too, or what? That’s the topic on Autoline After Hours today. We’ve also got Christian Steinmann, the CEO of a company called Clear Motion that developed a revolutionary suspension system for cars and trucks. You’re not going to believe how it works. Jack Nerad, the automotive writer and consultant will also be on the show. So join John and Gary to get some of the best insights into what’s happening in the automotive industry.
And that’s it for today. Thanks for tuning in.
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Comments (38)
November 10th, 2022 at 12:10 pm
“J.D. Power says buyers who special order a vehicle rather than buying what’s on the lot are a lot more satisfied”
That is certainly the case with me. My “sales satisfaction” is much lower with Toyota than with Chevy, MINI, and Porsche, because Toyota won’t even allow me to order a car. I’ve ordered from the others, and tend to be very satisfied, even though it can take a while to get the car.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:21 pm
Zoom calls in vehicles to participate in a meeting. What else can we do to fully distract drivers. Maybe OK if on the side of the road with vehicle in Park.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:26 pm
Honda drops the ball again on the Accord. Very disappointed that there is no plug in Hybrid option.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:33 pm
Metal has always been produced using fossil free means. Fossils are mineralized remains of ancient plants and animals. Actual fossils have nothing to do with any of the fuels. The reference to Coal, NG, and Oil as fossil fuels was started in order to make them appear scarce and help drive up the price. They really need to let people know the common well-known name was made up.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:35 pm
I’m sorry, but there is absolutely no way that Alfa will be a viable brand in the United States until it addresses its quality issues. Until then, this J D Power survey has about as much to do with its ability to stay in the US as does the quality of the food at the assembly line cafe in Milano.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:35 pm
The new Accord looks nice, inside and out. The exterior styling reminds me a lot of the last version of the Buick Regal.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:36 pm
It’s no wonder that Rivian is not selling! It is BUTT UGLY! Most wouldn’t even be seen driving the ugly duckling much less give it garage space! Phew!
My last dealer experience was a slap in the face! Not only did I spend 5 hours at the FORD dealership where the FORD dealer was attempting to back out of an advertised deal, had my trade in sold and sold me a alleged NEW FORD vehicle that had been damaged somewhere between the factory and the FORD dealership, with no advisory. That was in 2013! I’ve not been back to any dealer much less this FORD dealership! Did I mention it was a FORD? LOL
November 10th, 2022 at 12:38 pm
If EV adoption causes an ICE frenzy that tells me they have not let free market win out, but regulated us into using a product.
If EVs are so great everyone should want them and be able to afford them.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:41 pm
3 There was a Clarity plug-in hybrid which has been dropped, at least in the U.S. market. Will there be a “next generation” Clarity?
November 10th, 2022 at 12:41 pm
As popular as midsize four-door pickups are in many other developing countries, its kind of amazing that they are not popular in China. Perhaps it has to do with vehicle taxes or something. Sure seems like they would be the vehicle of choice in rural areas. Perhaps reliable access to fuel is an issue, which may also be an issue with an EV pickup.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:55 pm
I think Zoom calls while I’m driving my Tesla is a great idea. I can look at my sexy secretary while I’m driving at 70 on the freeway. Talk about safe driving technology I think the NHTSA will give this a 5 star rating or maybe 6 stars.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:56 pm
Rivian produced just over 7,200 vehicles last quarter. That includes the pickup and the Amazon delivery van, and maybe a few of the SUVs. For as long as that factory has been open, that is a very small quantity of vehicles produced for the capacity of the plant. Its hard to imagine that its all due to reduced availability of chips. Seems like there is more to the story. Perhaps the vehicles were engineered to be great EVs and they did not pay much attention to making them easy or efficient to build.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:58 pm
Congrats to the Alfa Romeo dealerships and field sales force for their impressive score! I am very interested to see how their vehicle initial quality scores come out.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:59 pm
2, Yup, hope Zoom is locked out when the vehicle is in motion.
4, Yup again; fossil fuels just relates to when the oil was forming and is made up of mostly microorganisms, heat and time. (technically, oil is still being produced now)
6, Confirmed; I always thought Rivian made an ugly vehicle but was reserving my judgement till when I saw one in real life. It’s still ugly, at least in my mind’s eye.
So, this is the second electric car company having problems that were and are highly touted as being very good vehicles. While the future may still be electric, it remains murky too.
That Geely pickup sure looks like the right size, looks attractive and is affordable, but count me out; not willing to give China anymore help taking over manufacturing.
November 10th, 2022 at 1:06 pm
10 Maybe people in China don’t buy many pickups, because they have no need for them, but don’t just “buy them anyway” like many Americans do.
November 10th, 2022 at 1:27 pm
I’m with ChuckGrenci on this Zoom thing. I bet it doesn’t work while the vehicle is in motion.
November 10th, 2022 at 1:28 pm
@Phil Googin – Rivian’s issues don’t have to do with design. It has reservations, it just can build vehicles fast enough.
November 10th, 2022 at 1:33 pm
14 So another EV company struggling, which to be honest isnt that surprising. I mean most everyone knew that not all these start-ups would survive and many are finding out just how difficult the auto industry is. I have seen so many battery fires in the last month too. Dewalt just had an EV mover burn up at a convention. One of the displays at SEMA caught fire and had to be pushed outside. Wonder how those Amazon vehicles are serviced if Rivian goes under? Not only ugly but I wouldnt want to buy an 80K vehicle from a company that may not be around before its warranty is expired.
15 Maybe in China they should bring back an ElCamino type vehicle.
November 10th, 2022 at 1:40 pm
18 El Camino type vehicles have been popular in Australia, but I don’t know if new ones are available from anyone, since Holden and Ford Australia shut down.
November 10th, 2022 at 2:07 pm
Kit at 19 ,to my knowledge no one is making a 2 door unibody UTE any where. Everything even close is 4 door . I keep seeing rumors of Ford reviving the Ranchero due to the popularity of the Maverick. I’ll believe if I see it.
November 10th, 2022 at 2:18 pm
Interesting that Kraftwerk is back. Around 2015 they promoted a butane powered cell phone charger on Kickstarter. They got into a pissing contest with the band of the same name. They raised a bunch of money and then screwed over everyone that contributed. Yes, I was one of them! They currently show that charger on their website, though, I don’t see it for sale anywhere. I think I’d still buy one. Would be a great off grid backup.
November 10th, 2022 at 2:20 pm
Honda drops 2.0T from Accord along with no more 6-speed manual option with any engine. So the new Accord is a just a Malibu RS…
November 10th, 2022 at 2:51 pm
22 I you want more performance, you can still get a V6 Camry. I think the Accord manual went away for the 2022 model year.
As with the Camry, though, the best version of the Accord is the hybrid, with similar performance to the non-hybrid 4, but about twice the city mpg. From the tests I’ve seen, the V6 Camry is only about a second quicker 0-60 than the hybrid. The Accord 2.0t was quicker than any of them, so it’s too bad they are dropping it. I suppose they didn’t sell enough of them to be worth the bother, or maybe there is a similar 2.0t Acura they can get a lot more money for.
November 10th, 2022 at 3:06 pm
Jack NEE-RAD. not ne-rod
November 10th, 2022 at 3:06 pm
Jack NEE-RAD. not ne-rod
November 10th, 2022 at 3:41 pm
24 big fan of yours for a very long time
November 10th, 2022 at 3:50 pm
I guess zoom calls are ok in a Tesla, because the car drives itself. At one time I was a likely Tesla customer for when and if home charging is available at my condo. The reasons keep adding up to make me go elsewhere when in the market for an EV.
November 10th, 2022 at 4:04 pm
Geely should sell their pickup truck in the U.S. Even with the “chicken tax,” it would be a bargain, if it’s any good.
November 10th, 2022 at 4:29 pm
#28.) Your right! At that price, there might be a lot of interest here in the States, but they may have to sale them through/under one of the brands that they have purchased and not a new brand that has a direct connection to it being a Chinese product. US customers may have no problem buying a Volvo, Polestar (Swedish) or Lotus (UK), but the Geely/Radar, may not make it past potential buyers and their political views of the products point of origin! While it shouldn’t, since so many products people currently buy conform that corner of the world.
Regarding the Zoom conference calls in the Tesla, if I’m not mistaken, the video from todays report, while it show the female Tesla driver driving on the road originally, after she’s started the Zoom call/conference, they show her parked at a fast charging station. So it would seem that it is being suggested that such communication should be done while parked! Whether will happen though, is another question.
November 10th, 2022 at 7:55 pm
Yeah, call the Geely pickup Volvo. There are Volvo trucks, so why not a small one? Geely has nothing to do with big Volvo trucks, but most people don’t know that. Maybe there would be trademark issues, though.
November 10th, 2022 at 10:21 pm
22,23 I just found in a Car and Driver article that 2020 was the last year you could get a manual transmission in any Accord, at least in the U.S. market.
November 11th, 2022 at 7:10 am
I’m not sure if its still the case but I do know that back when many cars had CD players many were capable of playing DVD’s (@ 2008). In the US the car had to have the parking brake set for that function to work. Where vehicles sent to the UK did not have to be in park. There were and likely still are regulations restricting certain functions like programming your GPS while in motion. So I doubt a user can use the Zoom function on their Tesla while moving at least in the US.
November 11th, 2022 at 8:29 am
#30.) Yeah, calling the Geely/Radar pickup a Volvo could work and make the vehicle salable in the US! I’m sure they could probably would something out with Volvo Trucks, for it’s not like they are competitors in any way, shape or form. However, it’s that attractive price point that becomes an issue. Even with the “chicken tax”, it would probably cost less then the least expensive vehicle that Volvo currently sells. Simple fix, though, just give it Volvo interior appointments, raise the price, but bring it in well under the the Rivian R1T and the they may have a bother run away success!
November 11th, 2022 at 8:46 am
I just read the news release for the new Accord, and they have made some strange choices. Black 19 inch wheels are mandatory for the hybrid versions, while non-black 17 inch wheels come with the 1.5t versions. Generally, people who would buy the hybrid would care more about gas mileage, ride quality, and minimal road noise, not big, black wheels. Of course, there are a lot of aftermarket wheels available.
November 11th, 2022 at 9:58 am
34 That does seem strange. Like maybe Honda figured the hybrid is more up level so you get the bigger wheels as part of that higher price, even though it would make more sense to put the 17″ on the hybrid. I dont even try and understand what marketing folks are thinking.
One trend I am seeing lately is most automakers in order to cut costs are consolidating options and limiting the available packages. Yet high end manufacturers are starting to let consumers pick specific colors or interior trims. As vehicles become more and more alike and even closer in quality. The EV’s seem to make vehicles more appliance like and similar the options may be what makes the high end cars stand out.
November 13th, 2022 at 8:15 pm
Wow! Sooo disappointed in the exterior designs of the new Volvo Ex 90 and the Honda Accord.
I had so hoped that 75% of the Volvo Recharge concept would make it to the new 90 but everything seems the same or more boring except the rear which is a huge mis-mash of parts. It looks like the took the taillights from the S 90 and S60 they have left over and added some chunky cheap vertical lights to reference their current good looking XC 90.
The Accord looks like they thought the last generation was too good looking and Camry’s are to crazy so lets try the whole boring thing and see if we can get some scaps. While we are at it let’s take the cool rear from the Kia k-5 and make it uncool.
Both of these were on my next to consider list but now .. sorry not a chance.
November 13th, 2022 at 8:16 pm
Yep! I know my typing and spelling are horrible. I should know to proof before posting HA!
November 14th, 2022 at 12:17 pm
Wearing my critical thinking hat here: I’ve never heard waste heat billed as increasing the efficiency of the HVAC system.