AD #3490 – Honda Creates New BEV Division; Ford Backs Away from EVs with VW; Nissan Eyes Electric Mid-Size Pickup
January 24th, 2023 at 11:55am
Listen to “AD #3490 – Honda Creates New BEV Division; Ford Backs Away from EVs with VW; Nissan Eyes Electric Mid-Size Pickup” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 9:35
0:00 Ford Backs Away from EVs with VW
1:26 Ford Could Shrink Footprint in Europe
1:59 Honda Creates New Division to Make BEVs
3:26 Aptera Surrenders, Agrees to DCFC
4:39 Renault to Sell Used Cars Globally
5:13 Nissan Eyes Electric Mid-Size Pickup
6:06 Russia Revives 1963 V8 Engine
7:30 Lightyear Favors Affordable Model
8:05 California Dominates U.S. EV Market
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FORD BACKS AWAY FROM EVs WITH VW
The high cost of manufacturing EVs, Tesla’s price war, and weakening economic conditions are forcing legacy automakers to start taking drastic actions. Let’s start with Ford. It’s backing away from its EV partnership with Volkswagen. In fact, it looks like Ford is going to shrink its footprint in Europe altogether. In 2020 Ford and VW announced a partnership to make several electric models using VW’s MEB platform, as well as develop autonomous vehicles with Argo AI. But last October they both gave up on Argo. And now Ford says that its next generation of EVs will switch from VW’s MEB platform to its own. We’ve seen this happen before. In 2019 Ford and Rivian were going to jointly develop an electric truck, but Ford backed out when it believed it could develop a better platform on its own. Another factor in Ford’s thinking may be that electric cars wearing the VW logo haven’t exactly set the market on fire, especially in China. And over the weekend VW removed its head of design, Jozef Kaban, and replaced him with Andreas Mindt, the chief designer from Bentley.
FORD SHRINKS FOOTPRINT IN EUROPE
And since Ford’s EV platforms are developed in the U.S., it’s going to slash its product development work in Europe, mainly in Cologne, Germany. Reuters reports it will cut 3,200 jobs, mostly in product development, which will probably save the company anywhere from $400 million to $500 million a year. But Germany’s powerful union IG Metal promises it will take actions that will seriously impact Ford throughout Europe if it actually axes those jobs.
HONDA CREATES NEW DIVISION TO MAKE BEVs
But union threats or not, legacy automakers still have to figure out how to slash costs if they hope to be profitable with electric vehicles. Honda is creating a whole new division to only develop BEVs including cars, motorcycles and power products. Honda is also consolidating its operations from 6 regions in the world to only 3: North America, China and everything else including Japan. It’s also carving its strategy group out of its administrative operations to move faster on its strategic plans. Just like Ford split off its EV operations called Model E and Renault split off its EV ops under Ampere, legacy automakers are starting to face up to the fact that the old way of doing business isn’t going to work anymore.
APTERA SURRENDERS, AGREES TO DCFC
A lot of you complained in the comments section yesterday that Aptera did not offer DC charging. Well, it looks like Aptera heard your complaints. Due to overwhelming criticism that its 3-wheeled solar EV would not have DC fast charging capability, Aptera quickly reversed course and said, yes, it will have it. For a refresher on the timeline. It said no DCFC on Friday the 20th and yes to DCFC a few days later. Aptera says it had been working on the capability for over a year, but paused the program because it didn’t have approval for the Tesla plug yet. So, with all the feedback, it’s starting the program back up again. However, its fast charging capability is on the low end. Aptera says it will for sure be able to charge at 40kW and hopes to go as high as 60kW. It’s also working on a future 100 kW version, but says that requires an upgrade to the power electronics, which adds weight and cost. Aptera does not give any charge times using a DC fast charger.
RENAULT TO SELL USED CARS GLOBALLY
Remember how we told you Renault was going to refurbish used cars and sell them? Well, now it’s taking that effort global. This year it will start selling second-hand vehicles from a range of brands around the world under the name Renew. Not only does this include gas and diesel vehicles but also refurbished and certified hybrids and electrics. Renew says it wants to become the leader in used EV sales. Demand for used vehicles is up and so are prices, so it could be a good source of revenue.
NISSAN EYES ELECTRIC MID-SIZE PICKUP
We think Nissan is probably working on a mid-size electric pickup. Its chairman of the company’s advisory board, Tyler Slade, told Automotive News “it’s logical to bring an electric version… ” of the Frontier. He added that dealers are asking for one and that EV pickups offer lower cost of ownership compared to ICE. You don’t typically hear an executive make comments like that unless something is already in the works. And you better bet Nissan is not the only one. GM, Ford, Stellantis are all likely eyeing the mid-size EV truck segment and company’s like Radar, which is part of Geely, could have early mover success with its RD6 that has roughly 250-400 miles of range on the Chinese cycle and starts at under $25,000.
RUSSIA REVIVES 1963 V8
Chinese brands will probably grab 70% of the Russian car market unless things change, says Russia’s auto dealer association. It hopes to turn that around with a strategy that includes updating an old V8 engine, and onshoring materials and components that were cut off after Russia invaded Ukraine. And when we say old, we mean old. That V8 engine came out in 1963 and only developed a maximum of 138 horsepower. Today, we have four cylinder engines with half the displacement that produce more power. That Russian V8 will likely be used in a local car with up to 80% domestic content, but it won’t be out until 2025 at the earliest.
LIGHTYEAR GOES WITH AFFORDABLE MODEL
Affordability is a big issue with electric vehicles, so Lightyear, the startup developing solar powered electric vehicles, is suspending production of the 250,000 euro Lightyear 0 to shift its focus to the more affordable 40,000 euro Lightyear 2. Production of the 0 kicked off last year but only at a rate of one per week. Lightyear says it received more than 40,000 orders for the Lightyear 2 from individual customers, in addition to the 20,000 orders it had from fleet owners.
CALIFORNIA DOMINATES U.S. EV MARKET
California is a huge market for electric vehicles and last year the state accounted for 40% of all zero-emission vehicle sales in the U.S. According to California’s Energy Commission, 346,000 ZEVs were sold in the state in 2022, which is about 19% of all vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 and Y were the best selling zero emission models, with 95,000 and 94,000 sold respectively.
DEVELOPING CAR WITH ZERO PROTOTYPES
Automakers spend a fortune building prototypes when they develop new cars and trucks. They have to smash, bash and crash them to make sure they meet their design specs. But what if you could get rid of prototypes through simulation? That’s the topic on Autoline After Hours Thursday with Michael Hoffmann from VI-grade, which has some of the coolest driving simulators in the world. Their goal is zero prototypes. So, can it be done? Tune in Thursday when the show gets going live at 3 pm eastern time.
But that’s a wrap for today’s show. Thanks for tuning in.
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Comments (19)
January 24th, 2023 at 12:11 pm
How are electric cars zero emissions and the state that has the most blackouts has the most electric cars fully checks all the boxes
January 24th, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Mid-size or full size the truck market seems to be a good place to go electric. They have the space for battery storage and can pull the kind of money needed to make an EV profitable.
The question to be answered will be, if consumers are happy with the range if they actually use them as trucks. Because there is a large majority of truck buyers that don’t tow or haul very often it could be a very successful segment.
January 24th, 2023 at 12:18 pm
Interesting how we get all the positive OEM news from the likes of GM and Ford, then shortly after we get revised information. Like GM limiting its partnership with LG and Ford having second and third thoughts about tying up with VW and its place in Europe.
I think these new announcements are much closer to the reality. Why a large company with multi-year outlook and planning ever made the earlier announcements is a puzzle.
January 24th, 2023 at 12:27 pm
It’s too bad that AV technology isn’t further along than it is. If we could prevent most accidents, we could start to lighten vehicles up and remove some of that mass. This would help provide range to EVs and ICE vehicles. But AV would need to be so widely used that crashes were a rarity. That Aptera looks light, and I suppose due to its three wheeled configuration it isn’t required to meet much of the same crash requirements of a 4 wheeled vehicle.
January 24th, 2023 at 12:42 pm
It should be easy to design cars without prototypes, using today’s technology. The Boeing 777 was designed entirely using CAD, and the first one built was close to the final production design. I guess one thing different with airplanes, though, is that they don’t need to survive crash tests.
January 24th, 2023 at 12:58 pm
Aptera’s quick change of mind doesn’t really matter. That would only come into play if they were actually going to produce vehicles. And, like Elio, they won’t. No one is going to invest the money necessary to bring this pipe dream to reality. If 3-wheeled vehicles were such a good idea, the major automakers would have started offering them years ago. We all know that reservations are very different from buyers. If Aptera has not been able to sell a vehicle after being around for 20 years, they really have no shot at success.
January 24th, 2023 at 1:10 pm
Its really a shame that Putin has torpedoed his country’s economy over his dream of remaking the USSR. From 2011 to 2017, the Russian auto market was growing rapidly, on track to become the 2nd largest in Europe behind Germany. Once the sanctions started to really bite as a result of the 2014 Crimea invasion, their auto market started shrinking faster than it had been growing. Today it is a joke. Ironically, the Chinese will be able to sell them pretty decent cars. But few will be made in Russia. I have to imagine that other industries in Russia experienced the same boom and bust scenario. That is tough to come back from, especially if most of the rest of the world shuns you.
It sets up a real opportunity for China to become Russia’s economic and material lifeline. Not a great position for Putin to put his country in. It could end up as a country that is basically controlled by China. A sad prospect for the Russian people.
January 24th, 2023 at 2:26 pm
From what I found, it appears that those Russian V8s will be used mostly for buses, both new ones and as repair parts.
January 24th, 2023 at 3:14 pm
@1 try to write a coherent sentence. Not one starting with a question and continuing with rambling.
January 24th, 2023 at 3:18 pm
@Russian V8: can anyone read the Russian text on the blue sign on 6 m 23 s? Does it say 6.5 million units built?
January 24th, 2023 at 3:24 pm
@10 it seems to be the 4.2 L V8 ZMZ-53 engine.
January 24th, 2023 at 3:28 pm
Thanks Sean. I am wondering how the media will cover the decline of the car sales. Especially as soon as a plant is closed. Jeep just did and the only blip was the union. I wonder how the coverage was when the steel mills started closing in PA. It is sad but in the next three years the plants will start closing. What you reported today on Ford is kinda the trickle that will turn into a river.
January 24th, 2023 at 3:43 pm
I don’t think GM, Ford, or Stellantis should worry about midsized EV pickups until they can make and sell the full sized ones they’ve been advertising. Only 15,000 Ford Lightnings all of last year isn’t a strong start (in a truck market)… Whether its supply issues or others, there’s a reason why only a few were built.
January 24th, 2023 at 3:45 pm
10 From this, about a third of the way down, it looks like there were, in fact, 6,531,101 of the engines made. The number may include the ZMZ-53, and the new, improved ZMZ-523/524. That sounds like a lot of bus engines, but maybe they were used in some of Khrushchev’s limos too.
https://socialbites.ca/automobile/133038.html
January 24th, 2023 at 4:17 pm
Maybe some of the Russian engines are also in 1958 Buicks in Cuba.
January 24th, 2023 at 4:19 pm
I take it that Nissan’s mid-size pickup EV, will be on a version of the Frontier’s ICE platform and not a new, purpose built EV architecture. This would make it a bit smaller then the R1T and a long way from any direct competition to the full size pickups that will be on the market, when it gets here! Yet, IMHO, Nissan show look into building a compact BEV pickup as well. The compact pickup market only has two vehicles in the US. Most of them in the US will not be used like full-size, or even mid-size pickups, but mainly for light duty, active life style stuff. So range may not really be an issue, yet the could from time-to-time be called on to haul a few things in a pinch. With an average transaction price in the mid $30K, they could have a run away success in the making.
January 24th, 2023 at 4:27 pm
@4 – The present AV technology path is a very long one and unlikely to be robust for adverse weather.
I fully appreciate the desire to reduce crashes due to human error. But replacing human error with machine error isn’t a good solution either.
The most reliable technology is DSRC… dedicated short range communication… wherein each vehicle and road user (bikes, pedestrians, et.a.) communicate their existence. The technology to transmit, receive and process the information is very cheap… particularly in comparison to the myriad of lidars, radars, and cameras needed to do a fraction of the work of DSRC. Newer vehicles with the system integrated will be able to autonomously brake and steer clear. Non-integrated vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians will be warned about impending collision threats.
The key for DSRC effectiveness is market saturation, which is easily achievable via retrofit black boxes on existing vehicles… or apps on a cell phone… with benefits to cyclists and pedestrians. Just as we successfully transitioned to HDTV with retro fit black boxes, such a transition for traffic safety should be a piece of cake with government, auto industry, and insurance industry cooperation.
January 25th, 2023 at 7:36 am
17 Thats actually a pretty good idea. I’m not sure how accurate the DSRC tech is for avoiding another vehicle, but it would likely stop the hwy pile ups that happen when everyone comes to a sudden stop.
A quick search for the main causes of accidents and the top 6 are.
1)Distracted driving
2)Speeding
3)Drunk driving
4)Reckless Driving
5)Rain
6)Running red lights or stop signs
AV tech like auto braking and lane assist can help with some of those causes. And I agree with you that the path to full AV is a very long path. Beyond the very limited locations of an inner city set location in good weather, I don’t see full autonomy being capable for a good 10-20 years at the earliest.
January 25th, 2023 at 10:44 am
Interesting story and no so happy Tesla owners. The price reductions could really upset buyers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-tesla-buyer-says-she-effectively-lost-10-810-overnight-after-the-carmaker-slashed-prices/ar-AA16ICav?cvid=7e2d62e0861047bc94acc1b1456fdb5e