AD #3536 – Toyota Developing Auto PHEV Charger; Tesla & CATL Want U.S. Plant; Senator Threatens IRA Lawsuit
March 31st, 2023 at 12:05pm
Listen to “AD #3536 – Toyota Developing Auto PHEV Charger; Tesla And CATL Want U.S. Plant; Senator Threatens IRA Lawsuit” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 11:29
0:00 Senator Manchin Threatens IRA Lawsuit
0:50 Tesla & CATL Want U.S. Battery Plant
1:52 Average American Can’t Afford a New Car
3:50 Lamborghini PHEV Specs
5:13 Cadillac House to Pamper Celestiq Customers
6:11 Kia EV9 Powertrain Specs
8:22 Ford Raises Lightning Prices Again
8:55 Toyota Developing Automated PHEV Charger
10:01 Tesla Launches Beer Brand
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SEN. MANCHIN THREATENS IRA LAWSUIT
Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia is so mad he’s threatening to sue his own government. Manchin is angry that the U.S. Treasury Department is going to allow foreign made electric cars using foreign made batteries to get $7,500 U.S. tax subsidies. Manchin says that was never the intent of the law and calls it a betrayal. Those EV subsidies are part of the Inflation Reduction Act, which was written to generate EV manufacturing in the United States. The Treasury is expected to release its final rulings on the subsidies today. And then we’ll find out if Manchin is really going to go on the warpath.
TESLA & CATL WANT US BATTERY PLANT
Tesla is looking to build yet another battery plant in the U.S. And this time it could partner with Chinese battery maker CATL. Bloomberg reports it will be similar to the deal CATL has with Ford, where Tesla would own and operate the plant while licensing technology from CATL. It could be built in Texas but a location hasn’t been finalized yet. If the deal goes through, look for a political backlash in both the US and China. Several members in the U.S. Congress criticized Ford because they say it allows Chinese companies to benefit from U.S. subsidies. And China’s Xi Juin Ping recently criticized CATL for growing too quickly. Maybe that’s why Elon Musk is reportedly going to meet with Chinese Premier Li Qiang next month. Mr. Musk seems to have a knack of getting what he wants from the Chinese government.
AVERAGE AMERICAN CAN’T AFFORD A NEW CAR
The average American pretty much can’t afford a new car anymore. Historically, it always took about 24 weeks of income for the average person to buy a new car, or just under half a year’s income. Today, after the massive runup in prices from Covid shutdowns and the chip shortage, that stands at nearly 44 weeks. That’s 84% of the average worker’s annual pay. Per capita income in the US is $68,000 according to the U.S. Census Bureau. So, under the old 24 weeks formula, the average car should cost $34,000. Instead it costs $49,000. And it’s expected to top $50,000 sometime this year. Worse still, used car prices are going back up again. They shot up $700 just last month alone to $27,000 according to Black Book, and they’re expected to keep on climbing. The reason? With new car sales down so much over the last three years, there are about 3 million fewer cars coming off lease this year, which means there are fewer used cars in the used car market. By the way, affordability was the main topic on Autoline After Hours yesterday and if you’d like to know more about this crisis, be sure to watch that show.
LAMBORGHINI PHEV SPECS
Lamborghini has been teasing its first plug-in hybrid for the last couple of weeks and now it’s finally showing it off. Called the Revuelto, it’s powered by a 6.5L, 12-cylinder engine that’s paired with an 8-speed dual-clutch transmission and three electric motors. Two of the motors control each of the front wheels and the third motor is integrated into the transmission that supplies power to the rear. The setup combines for 1,001 horsepower, a 0 to 100 km/h time of just 2.5 seconds and a top speed of 350 km/h or 217 MPH. The entire monocoque as well as the roof and front structure are made from 100% carbon fiber. The rear structure, which surrounds the engine and suspension, is made from aluminum. Inside, it features three display screens, a 12.3-inch instrument cluster, an 8.4-inch center screen and a 9.1-inch display on the passenger side. Info can be switched between the displays just by swiping with your fingers like with a smartphone. The Revuelto goes on sale next year but we still don’t know what it’s going to cost. Of course, you know the old saying, “If you have to ask…..”
CADILLAC HOUSE TO PAMPER CELESTIQ CUSTOMERS
Cadillac is going to pamper customers who want to buy its $300,000-plus hand-built Celestiq with a special purchasing experience. It refurbished one of the buildings at the GM Tech Center in Warren, Michigan that was designed by world renown architect Eero Saarinen. They call it the Cadillac House at Vanderbilt, named after Suzanne Vanderbilt, who worked at GM starting in 1955 and was one of the few women in automotive design at that time. A concierge will meet customers and take them through the design process. Or, if they can’t make the trip to the Cadillac House at Vanderbilt, they’ll go through a virtual experience to customize and personalize their car with a Cadillac designer who is assigned to them. The facility opens at the end of this summer and deliveries of the first models will start in late-spring of 2024.
KIV EV9 POWERTRAIN SPECS
Kia revealed images of its upcoming EV9 electric SUV earlier this month and now it’s giving us more details about the powertrain. Two battery packs are available. The standard Rear-Wheel Drive model gets a 76.1-kWh battery paired to a 160-kW electric motor. The RWD Long Range and All-Wheel Drive versions get a 99.8-kWh battery. The RWD Long Range comes with a 150-kW electric motor, while the AWD model has two electric motors with a combined 283-kW. Kia only revealed the range of the RWD Long Range model–541 kilometers or 336 miles based on the WLTP cycle. And that’s with 19-inch wheels. 20 and 21-inch wheels are also available. It features an 800-volt charging system, which provides 239 kilometers or 148 miles of range in just 15 minutes. A GT-Line model is also available, with different front and rear fascias, different wheels and an exclusive design pattern for the grille lighting. The GT-Line also comes with Kia’s Highway Driving Pilot, which provides Level 3 autonomous driving where it is legal. Kia will start taking pre-orders for the EV9 in South Korea in the second quarter and will launch it in global markets in the second half of the year.
FORD RAISES LIGHTNING PRICES AGAIN
Ford is once again raising the price of the F-150 Lightning. The Pro model now costs just under $60,000, which is $4,000 more than before. The Lariat model gets a $1,500 price hike and now starts at about $76,000. And the Platinum version costs just over $98,000, a $1,200 increase. Ford said it raised prices because of “current material costs, market factors and supply chain constraints.”
TOYOTA DEVELOPING AUTOMATED PHEV CHARGER
Plug-in hybrids are a great bridge technology to pure battery electrics, as long as their owners plug them in. But research from the International Coalition on Clean Technology, found that in Europe, PHEV owners drive on electric power less than half the time they drive. In the US, it found that PHEVs actually consume 42% to 67% more gasoline than the EPA thought they would. That’s why Toyota, which is heavily committed to hybrids and PHEVs, is developing a an automated charging system for homeowners. That way, owners could just drive into their garages and the system would automatically start charging their cars. Toyota is researching whether it needs a wireless system, or whether it should physically contact the car. And it wants a system that provides robust reliability. Toyota is still trying to figure out what to do for apartment dwellers. No word yet on when this might be ready, but it’s developing this system for future models.
TESLA LAUNCHES BEER BRAND
One last item before we go. Tesla is expanding its brand with a brand new product. But this one isn’t a new car, it’s a beer. The company just launched its own beer in Europe called GigaBier, which is a pilsner brewed in Germany with a 5% ABV. The bottles have a sleek design inspired by the Cybertruck. And like most Tesla products, it isn’t cheap. It costs nearly $100 a 3-pack– three 11-ounce bottles. You only buy one pack at a time and it’s only available in Europe. And if any of our European viewers out there get a chance to knock one back, let us know what you think about it.
And on that high note, we wrap up today’s report. Have a great weekend and thanks for watching.
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Comments (31)
March 31st, 2023 at 12:38 pm
I support Senator Manchin’s effort to maintain the merits in which the IRA was passed. They claimed it was to encourage US manufacturing and using tax payer money to do it. So to back-peddle because of a little pressure just shows again how weak and wishy washy this administration is.
I cant help but wonder if the rising costs of new cars isnt also part of a bigger picture to get consumers used to paying the increasing costs for vehicles. Not to mention it makes EVs a lot more competitive when the price is similar.
Which also raises the question if Ford has ever raised the price of any ICE as quickly as they seem to be raising the price of the Lightning.
March 31st, 2023 at 12:51 pm
#1 +++
March 31st, 2023 at 1:09 pm
Suspect the Lightning price hike is because
- No competition / nice demand
- Ford E results on red
I’d raise prices too if it was up to me
March 31st, 2023 at 1:38 pm
@1,2 TESLA will own and operate the new Texas-based battery plant while licensing technology from CATL. Which American technology do you suggest they license?
March 31st, 2023 at 1:43 pm
4 A Texas based battery plant using licensed technology from CATL is different than allowing foreign made electric cars using foreign made batteries to get $7,500 U.S. tax subsidies. Read the transcript.
March 31st, 2023 at 1:51 pm
most all of these price increases are due to govt.mandates. these pols listen to the people who donate to them not the voters.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:11 pm
@5 My bad, I misunderstood you.
I am with you that foreign-made batteries should not qualify for the IRA.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:11 pm
My personal opinion is there should be no taxpayer subsidies to basically bribe poeople to buy a product no matter what it is. Let the market decide for itself if it want to buy it or not. 2 paragraphs down states that the average American can’t afford a new car , but those that can’t are supposed to support those that can. What the hell kind of upside down thinking is that? Average price of a EV is about $66K from what I last saw. So if you can consider buying one why the hell should anyone help you pay for it that can’t even buy a new ICE that the average price is $50K ? It makes ZERO sense , but then what else should we expect from government. The age old bait and switch routine.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:18 pm
There are many products more expensive in Canada than in the U.S. and many that are less expensive. Suppliers try to match prices to the market they are selling into to maximize profit or market share.
If, instead of complaining, everyone voted with their pocketbook and stopped buying, suppliers would adjust. Like Tesla in China.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:21 pm
Part of why a person of average income can’t afford an “average” new car, is that “cars” in the US have become huge trucks and SUVs. You can get a well equipped actual car, like Camry or Accord, for the 24 weeks average pay.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:29 pm
I can’t image that Elon’s $33 a bottle beer will sell very well in Europe, or anywhere else. If they want to sell ridiculously expensive beer, you’d think it would be something other than a Pilsner, when you can get the real thing from Czech Republic cheap.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:36 pm
Ford has a months, or years of backlog orders for Lightning, so it makes sense to raise the price. When more competition arrives, things will be different, but for now, Lightning is essentially the only game in town if you want a big electric pickup truck.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:47 pm
8, The biggest problem is that Asia is well ahead of the rest of the world as even China had funded the growth of over 100 EV companies. Now they are moving into Europe as the politicians give away many percentage points of thier gross domestic product and eroded their manufacturing sector for good.
Once politicians let Asia into North America it is game over for many of our manufacturers unless we get established as a leader in at least converting ICE to EV’s. Mostly because aside from software these are essentially body on battery and make a almost 600 horsepower KIA as fast as a Porsche for $60k, rewriting the hierarchy of the past and where a $300,000 Cadillac EV will raise the bar. That’s why battery minerals sourcing, battery assembly, and car assembly, is so heavily scrutinized under IRA 2.0. to N.
A.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:54 pm
11 I don’t mind spending good $ on a good beer but at $33 I wouldn’t be doing much beer drinking.
March 31st, 2023 at 2:56 pm
1,2, yep, I’m on board with those statements. I don’t like the subsides to begin with, but don’t let the other manufacturers (not qualified), make our deficit higher off their backs as well.
And on Ford’s increase of Lightning pricing, read market factors, as others are charging more, so we will as well, plus, they’re getting in on ‘dealer mark-up’ before their product gets to the dealer.
Pent up demand, or not, there will be a day when buyers will start to dry up due to the astronomical prices for used and new cars. As the AAH title states, the middle class is being priced out of the car buying market.
March 31st, 2023 at 3:10 pm
#1.) I agree 1000% on the squishiness of leaders and bending to pressure! Remember, the original promise was to union shops that supported nomination and election of the current administration! Once elected, the fight to get the IRA on the books, required it to some allow transplant, OEMs in non-union shops, in states that both the governmental and legislative bodies actively fight against unionized organization! That being said, one could expect that type of craziness, it that, if the senators and representatives, that have to approve the IRA, can’t bring some of those benefits to their constituents in their home market, then they wouldn’t support it. So that was a given, as hypocritical as they may sound. Yet, as has been said, for world leaders to pressure another country, to allow the billions companies in their home market to take advantage of tax incentives in another country, is ridiculous, and might be considered disgusting! They’re taking up for multi billion dollar company’s, not getting together to pressure another country on human rights violations, human trafficking, corruption, drug cartels, immigration reform, hunger, malnutrition or none of the other world crisis around the globe, but they are you taking up for multibillion dollar companies and corporations, to support the bottom lines! I’m not here to make a political point, but it just boggles the mind and these leaders would get together pressure a foreign government, to make their residents tax funds available to businesses that operate in their countries?! These same countries seem to have no interest in seriously creating something similar to the IRA in their country’s, nor do them seem interested in addressing the trade deficit between the US and many of their countries either! It’s craziness!
#1 & 3.) Again I agree with the both of you! I do also believe what Ford is try as true as well, but they are indeed making the most of the situation too! When you look at it, the Lightning is a full-size pickup and the Rivian R1T is a bit of a tweener, in that, bigger then the current midsize pickup, but smaller the a full-size truck. It may be said that the R1T is more of a premium vehicle and the Lightning is a mainstream offering. When, though, you consider the size advantage and therefore, arguably, greater usable capacity offered by the Lightning over the R1T, yet, these two vehicles cost about the same, even with the Lightning’s current price increase! So may see an inherent art value in that proposition, especially, as mentioned, the two vehicles currently have competition and can therefore set their own prices! Here is the thing, once serious competition for these vehicles to hit the market, I don’t think there’s gonna be much of a price rollback as we might expect. The Chevy Silverado WT is supposed to start at $40K, but I don’t think you’re going to be able to find one at that price point once it does hit the road, with the same going for the Ram REV! I would not also be surprise if the price increase for the Lightning, is because Ford is also going to be introducing a Ranger BEV and they are providing space under the Lightning for that vehicle to occupy. If this is true, I don’t see Ford doing a Ranger EV for much less then $40K, with most transaction prices being in the mid $50K, easily!
While the EV9 is an impressive vehicle, I just find it hard to what the higher trim prices make be asking for, from what I’ve lead to believe from their current offerings. While not a brand snob, from reading reports from other news outlets, it’s suggested that the EV9, may be asking $60-80K for their top trims! That’s X5, GLE and Q7 kind of money! Now, if the EV9 is offering that type of fit and finish, interior appointments, material quality, design and appeal, then it’s more well spent and well worth it! You know the level of quality your getting for that money with the German Three and that’s not to say the EV9 will not provide it, but with the Volvo EX90 (and maybe a Lexus and a few other brands coming online soon) also in that price range, where will this Kia find itself among both the EV and ICE competition?
That said and the EV9, what amazes me is that Kia can build an incredible, road going, midsize SUV/CUV BEV, that looks more like a Land Rover, the JLR can put out a serious EV concept! What was the point of Land Rover’s sister brand, rushing to be the first legacy OEM to produce a electric SUV several years ago, for Land Rover to just now be flirting with hybrids for most of their vehicle portfolio?!? Head scratcher!
I know the GM is proud of the Cadillac Celestiq and I figure that most of the owners of the new vehicle will be past and present top exects of the brand and leaders of GM, but to have individuals outside of the company, come to the tech center to make their selections on their vehicle, seems a little odd, IMHO. For this vehicle to be taken seriously as a competitors and Rolls-Royce, Bentley and Maserati and their buyers, for that matter, I would have thought they would have headquartered purchases for that vehicle in Manhattan, or maybe some other exotic locale, not Michigan! If Michigan were to be to destinations, perhaps someplace like Mackinac Island, or some other place where the rich and famous retreat here in the state, not Warren Michigan! While a suburb of Detroit, and therefore more premium then its sister Michigan City, it’s hard to imagine potential buyers would want to come to Warren, as great as a place as it is, to make choices on their next $300K+ purchase?
March 31st, 2023 at 3:41 pm
13 It’s a completely different story in China compared to here when they governments either owns or partly owns those companies. They can do as they wish .
March 31st, 2023 at 3:42 pm
@8 Like you I am against government subsidies, but that is not feasible: above and beyond the normal government subsidies of the oil and gas sector (the annual multi-billion dollar tax breaks) the American O&G companies have received a $60 billion bail-out in 2009/2010, and another $60 billion bail-out in 2020/2021. The oil and gas business has been so risky and volatile since 2008 that it is not even sustainable without continuous and incidental government subsidies. We have 279 million vehicles in the U.S., of which probably only 7 million electrified (EV plus hybrid), so we have over 270 million gasoline/diesel powered vehicles and cannot function without steady supply of oil and refined products. The O&G companies have to be kept alive.
March 31st, 2023 at 3:47 pm
The Ford dealers probably don’t like the Lightning price increases, because they won’t be able to get by with charging as much extra dealer profit.
One way or another, markets adjust. If the “average” car costs more weeks of work, people will keep their vehicles longer, buy used, and at some point, more people will buy what they need, rather than what makes them feel good. There is a lot out there for well under the $49K average. If you need to carry 7 people, a base Chevy Traverse is about $35K, and if you don’t need as much room, there are a bunch of smaller, and less expensive crossovers, and, of course a few sedans still around. Then, for the millions who want a pickup truck but don’t tow or haul anything, the Maverick is a bargain, especially the hybrid that gets great mpg.
March 31st, 2023 at 5:15 pm
Isn’t this “average price” thing a little like if a third of cars sold in the ’50s were Cadillacs and Lincolns? Now, all of the early adopter pricey EVs, along with the expensive pickups and big SUVs run up the average.
March 31st, 2023 at 5:46 pm
Nice to see AD back w/ John and best wishes to Sean! Future AAH topic: automakers abandoning Apple Carplay/Android Auto for their own “phone” subscription services (ala GM’s recent announcement). Good? Bad? Future implications
April 1st, 2023 at 7:45 am
I agree as well with the senator and what so many have already said. To think that, originally, to gain the votes of union workers, while campaigning, the current administration promised the tax incentives to EVs they were to assemble. Then governors and congress members applied pressure, that transplant automakers in their states couldn’t get the incentives, even though many of them actively discourage unionizing in the states they represent! That, though, was expected, for you can’t expect them to sign off on something, that they can’t figured out a way be of benefit to their constituents. Yet, to yield to pressure from outside government?! So that the multibillion companies can benefit from the tax dollars spend here, is crazy talk! These world leaders aren’t talking about world peace, human rights, human trafficking, or some other things that leaders of the free world should be discussing, but they are coming to pressure this government to allow billion dollar companies build products in their home market and sell in this country with, with US tax dollars, and at furious at the thought that leadership here is hesitant to do it! Yet, how many vehicles made here are sold in some of these same countries? And if they were, how many would be allowed to be purchased, using some of the tax dollars of their citizenship?! It’s mind blowing!
While I think that there is truth in what Ford has said about the reason for the price increases on the Lightning, as so many have already commented, with no real direct competition, they are are taking advantage of the situation! Yet, when you look at its two closest competitors, the R1T and Hummer SUT, even with the latest increases, it’s bigger then the R1T (which is more of a premium vehicle), yet they cost about the same and it’s still less expensive then the SUT. All three vehicles are setting the price for the market now and until there is more direct competition, they will continue to do so. I wonder too, if Ford were going to introduce a Ranger EV, if they were raise the price of the Lightning, to provide more run for the electric Ranger? If they did, in can’t see the Ranger starting at no less the $50K!
The EV9 I shaping up to be an outstanding vehicle, but from reading other outlets, it’s suggested that the top trim versions may run $70-80K, which is X5, GLE and Q7 money! While in no way a brand snob, one knows what they are getting from the German Three and if the EV9 can match them at that price for interior appointments, fit and finish, materials and the like, good deal and money well spent! Yet, with a Volvo EX90, a Lexus and several others BEVs coming to market and a host of updated ICE vehicles in that price range coming out soon, Kia may have an uphill battle in proving that the EV9 is the vehicle to take home!
The Cadillac Celestiq is going to set new standards to the brand! While I am sure that past and present GM and Cadillac executives will be among the first to take possession of the vehicle, I would have though that GM/Cadillac would have chosen Manhattan New York, or some exotic locale as the headquarters to purchase their new flagship. As great as Warren Michigan is, I find in hard to believe that those outside of the auto industry and have the disposable income to purchase Rolls-Royce’s, Bentleys and other high end merchandise, will be able to appreciate all that is great with the City of Warren Michigan, fly in and pick out what they want in their Celestiq, in person. I seems that more would be needed to make it more of a destination, to attract that type of clientele to an ‘in person’ selection process in lieu of purchase.
April 1st, 2023 at 7:46 am
I agree as well with the senator and what so many have already said. To think that, originally, to gain the votes of union workers, while campaigning, the current administration promised the tax incentives to EVs they were to assemble. Then governors and congress members applied pressure, that transplant automakers in their states couldn’t get the incentives, even though many of them actively discourage unionizing in the states they represent! That, though, was expected, for you can’t expect them to sign off on something, that they can’t figured out a way be of benefit to their constituents. Yet, to yield to pressure from outside government?! So that the multibillion companies can benefit from the tax dollars spend here, is crazy talk! These world leaders aren’t talking about world peace, human rights, human trafficking, or some other things that leaders of the free world should be discussing, but they are coming to pressure this government to allow billion dollar companies build products in their home market and sell in this country with, with US tax dollars, and at furious at the thought that leadership here is hesitant to do it! Yet, how many vehicles made here are sold in some of these same countries? And if they were, how many would be allowed to be purchased, using some of the tax dollars of their citizenship?! It’s mind blowing!
While I think that there is truth in what Ford has said about the reason for the price increases on the Lightning, as so many have already commented, with no real direct competition, they are are taking advantage of the situation! Yet, when you look at its two closest competitors, the R1T and Hummer SUT, even with the latest increases, it’s bigger then the R1T (which is more of a premium vehicle), yet they cost about the same and it’s still less expensive then the SUT. All three vehicles are setting the price for the market now and until there is more direct competition, they will continue to do so. I wonder too, if Ford were going to introduce a Ranger EV, if they were raise the price of the Lightning, to provide more run for the electric Ranger? If they did, in can’t see the Ranger starting at no less the $50K!
April 1st, 2023 at 7:48 am
The EV9 I shaping up to be an outstanding vehicle, but from reading other outlets, it’s suggested that the top trim versions may run $70-80K, which is X5, GLE and Q7 money! While in no way a brand snob, one knows what they are getting from the German Three and if the EV9 can match them at that price for interior appointments, fit and finish, materials and the like, good deal and money well spent! Yet, with a Volvo EX90, a Lexus and several others BEVs coming to market and a host of updated ICE vehicles in that price range coming out soon, Kia may have an uphill battle in proving that the EV9 is the vehicle to take home!
The Cadillac Celestiq is going to set new standards to the brand! While I am sure that past and present GM and Cadillac executives will be among the first to take possession of the vehicle, I would have though that GM/Cadillac would have chosen Manhattan New York, or some exotic locale as the headquarters to purchase their new flagship. As great as Warren Michigan is, I find in hard to believe that those outside of the auto industry and have the disposable income to purchase Rolls-Royce’s, Bentleys and other high end merchandise, will be able to appreciate all that is great with the City of Warren Michigan, fly in and pick out what they want in their Celestiq, in person. I seems that more would be needed to make it more of a destination, to attract that type of clientele to an ‘in person’ selection process in lieu of purchase.
April 1st, 2023 at 7:56 am
The Cadillac Celestiq is going to set new standards to the brand! While I am sure that past and present GM and Cadillac executives will be among the first to take possession of the vehicle, I would have though that GM/Cadillac would have chosen Manhattan New York, or some exotic locale as the headquarters to purchase their new flagship. As great as Warren Michigan is, I find in hard to believe that those outside of the auto industry and have the disposable income to purchase Rolls-Royce’s, Bentleys and other high end merchandise, will be able to appreciate all that is great with the City of Warren Michigan, fly in and pick out what they want in their Celestiq, in person. I seems that more would be needed to make it more of a destination, to attract that type of clientele to an ‘in person’ selection process in lieu of purchase.
April 1st, 2023 at 8:30 am
…while I have already had a lot to say, one more thing. The EV9 I shaping up to be an outstanding vehicle, but from reading other outlets, it’s suggested that the top trim versions may run $70-80K, which is X5, GLE and Q7 money! While in no way a brand snob, one knows what they are getting from the German Three and if the EV9 can match them at that price for interior appointments, fit and finish, materials and the like, good deal and money well spent! Yet, with a Volvo EX90, a Lexus and several others BEVs coming to market and a host of updated ICE vehicles in that price range coming out soon, Kia may have an uphill battle in proving that the EV9 is the vehicle to take home! Only time will tell.
April 1st, 2023 at 11:27 am
I still don’t see the point of Celestiq. Will even a few hundred people want to pay Rolls-Royce prices for what will probably be a single generation, and have little support when 10 years old?
April 2nd, 2023 at 7:06 am
23 Kit – I doubt anyone buying a Celestique (sic) is thinking 10 years ahead – when it comes to road-bound transportation, at least.
Champagne houses sell special cuvees at exorbitant prices, to make the normal bottles seem like a reasonable expense.
And it works too, when you can actually buy delicious and real Champagne for 15-20 USD in France.
The Celestique is probably aimed squarely at the Chinese market, except that His Holiness Xi has been targeting visible excess, if I remember correctly. I don’t like the car at all, but am not in the market, and hope it works out for Cadillaq. Er, Cadillac.
April 2nd, 2023 at 1:46 pm
24 Yeah, that all makes sense.
The Celestique doesn’t appeal much to me either, but I hope they can sell enough of them to limit the loss. For tens of thousands less, you can get a Bentley Flying Spur which is a pretty nice sedan.
I’ve never had any cheapish Champagne in France, but I’ve had really cheap cabernet there that was surprisingly good.
April 2nd, 2023 at 2:52 pm
All bar one of the major Champagne producers are in the hands of big corporations. It’s the small, independent houses that make the stuff that’s both good and affordable. Any decent Paris wineshop should have some (definitely remember seeing such bottles) – I can even buy it in Switzerland.
Just please don’t use Calvados as E-fuel.
April 3rd, 2023 at 11:25 am
23) They will find a few hundred buyers but the main point of the Celestiq is Halo Marketing. They are out to show that Cadillac can do rolls royce levels of design/quality/and most importantly panache. If they can build credibility as a high end luxury maker, it should sell a few more of their cheaper models.