AD #3551 – BYD, CATL Unveil Sodium-Ion Batteries; Li Auto 800V = 400KM in 10 Min; Farley: Ford Needs to Rethink China

April 21st, 2023 at 12:10pm

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Listen to “AD #3551 – BYD, CATL Unveil Sodium-Ion Batteries; Li Auto 800V = 400KM in 10 Min; Farley: Ford Needs to Rethink China” on Spreaker.

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0:00 Shanghai Auto Show is Jam Packed
0:36 BYD, CATL Unveil Sodium-Ion Batteries
1:27 Get ~250 Miles of Range in 10 Minutes
2:11 Farley: Ford Needs to Rethink China
3:39 Hyundai Testing Curbside Charging
4:47 Stellantis Testing E-Fuels
5:55 Porsche Tests V2X at 200+ KM/H
7:39 VW’s EV Sales Up Globally, Down in China
8:38 Canada Offers Big Incentives for VW Battery Plant
9:08 Developing Countries Nationalize EV Raw Materials
9:58 Schaeffler Making Hub Motors for 3 Chinese Companies

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11 Comments to “AD #3551 – BYD, CATL Unveil Sodium-Ion Batteries; Li Auto 800V = 400KM in 10 Min; Farley: Ford Needs to Rethink China”

  1. wmb Says:

    So the countries that want to nationalize their rare earth materials and ban together to control distribution, are looking to become the new OPEC of the EV world! I guess the thought/work on sodium ion batteries can’t come fast enough.

  2. Drew Says:

    Hmmm. Ford has reduced its commitment to Australia, South America, and India. It is shrinking in Europe. It abandoned sedans in NA, saying customers prefer SUVs, yet is walking away from core 2-row SUVs (Edge and Escape). Now, it is frustrated with the competition in China.

    At some point, Ford’s shrinking global market share will result in such a large overhead cost burden that F-Series and commercial trucks can’t handle. Niche Mustangs and Broncos won’t help. And it’s hard to imagine Ford can win in the ensuing BEV price wars given its overhead cost issues and quality reputation issues. Sorry, but I here the play of taps here.

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I wonder what cost/kWh will be from the Itselectric/Hyundai chargers. I’ve said too many times here that apartment and condo dwellers need home charging, but it needs to be at close to utility rates. If it’s ~3x utility rates like most public charging, you have about the same fuel cost as a gas vehicle.

  4. Roger T Says:

    Fast charger, 480kW would mean a Tesla Plaid battery in less than 15 minutes. Charger capability is easy to ramp up, but batteries ability to take that is far behind I think.
    If only we (in the US) could have chargers that consistently work, it would be a great start. High capacity charger options would be cherry on top.

  5. merv Says:

    battery tech keeps amazing me. how much its changed in just the last few years

  6. Drew Says:

    Sometime in the future we will know the effect of high volt super-charging on battery life and range.

  7. Sean Wagner Says:

    How are hub motors ideal for autonomous driving?

    Regarding super-fast charging, it doesn’t even have to be suitable for the daily routine to vastly improve the usefulness of EVs. Say for everyone going on a handful of extended trips per year.

    It’s Tesla’s core mission to make EVs both more enticing, and more accessible. Part of that is pushing the competition to improve. No comfort zones outside their vehicles.

    6 Drew – no need to wait. The instruments and methodologies for how to test, measure, and predict degradation within a useful range have been in use for a while.

    I had the displeasure of driving Seat’s racier version of VW’s ID.3 yesterday, and once again realized the controls/interface are some of the worst I’ve ever been forced to use, mainly due to the sorry software, and terrible excuse for buttons implemented.

  8. Bob Wilson Says:

    #6 – With 104,000 miles on my 2019 Tesla Model 3, the consensus and my experience, ~9% battery degradation, is to keep the NMC cells charged to under 70-80%. At the higher voltages found with higher states of charge (SOC) this causes more irreversible chemical changes that lock up the lithium ions in the SEI layer.

    Other cell chemistries, like LiFePO, have a much lower rate, 1/3d, of lithium fixation compared to NMC chemistry. But battery chemistry is not fixed as we learn what works and how to make them.

    So I am amused to read of kleptomaniac politicians who try to nationalize a future ‘gravy train’ today’s battery minerals. Sodium and silicon cathodes and anodes will soon enough make NMC cells like the old carbon zinc and lead acid battery a dead end found in museums.

    The best resource a country has are the willing brains of their best and brightest. The very brains the USA has been harvesting from the world … inspite of lazy, anti-alien idiots.

  9. Sean Wagner Says:

    Fascinating AAH. BYD is present in 51 countries, IIRC. EVs with green license plates taking over Shanghai. The digital natives not much interested in old-fashioned cars. Chinese manufacturers coming back strong. How are Toyota and VW going to stay on top, if their sales in the world’s largest market are anaemic?

  10. Lambo2015 Says:

    3 Might as well face it Kit the cost is no longer an EV incentive. Soon enough charging will be on par with the cost of gas per mile and everyone will except it because its about the environment not saving the consumer money.
    That was just part of the initial attraction to EVs was, “hey look I never have to get gas”! Which conjures up $$$ savings. You’ll notice not one manufacturer out there touts an annual savings of driving there EV over a gas vehicle. One because its not an apples to apples comparison and two because that savings is marginal at best and wont last and they know it.
    So just face it, if you used to spend about $1500 a year in gas I am willing to bet you’ll be spending $1500-2000 a year in electricity.
    However I dont expect it to fluctuate like gas does on a daily basis.

  11. George Ricci Says:

    On the surface curb side charging sounds like a great idea, but in San Francisco those charging cords will be vandalized in less than 24 hours. Fully detachable charging cords just make easier and quicker to steal them.