Episode 438 – Toyota And Paice Settle, Watch Out Tesla, Transmission Arms Race
July 20th, 2010 at 12:00pm
Runtime 7:19
Toyota and Paice LLC have settled their patent dispute over hybrid technology. Nissan is said to be working on an electric sports car that uses parts from its LEAF EV. The dealerships GM and Chrysler were forced to close when they went through bankruptcy are, not surprisingly, making unemployment numbers worse. All that and more, plus a look at how the luxury-vehicle sales race in the U.S. is heating up and how BMW plans to stay on top.
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Transcript and Story Links after the jump . . .
This is Autoline Daily for Tuesday, July 20, 2010, and now the news.
TOYOTA AND PAICE SETTLE
For over a year now we’ve been following the story of a small company called Paice LLC that held some of the most basic patents on hybrids, and had sued Toyota for patent infringement. It even filed suit with the International Trade Commission to block Toyota from importing hybrids into the American market. Well, now Toyota has decided it better not take any more risks with lawsuits, so yesterday it agreed to settle-up with Paice. Bloomberg reports that the terms of the settlement were not divulged, but Toyota will pay Paice more royalties for its patents. Earlier this month, the Ford Motor Company also agreed to pay royalties to Paice for the hybrids that it builds.
MORE HYBRID TRUCKS WILL BE NEEDED
And speaking of hybrids, a top engineer at GM says that they’re going to play a big role to meet fuel economy standards for light trucks in the U.S. According to Ward’s, Gary Smyth, the executive director of North American Science Labs for GM, says that hitting the 35.5 MPG average by 2016 “will be a challenge with trucks” and that GM is “looking at significant hybridization to make it happen.” He says that even if the 2016 standards can be met without using hybrids, going forward they’ll still be important because the EPA and NHTSA are already looking at tougher standards beyond 2016. Currently GM is the only automaker that offers a hybrid truck, but a base hybrid Silverado costs $10,000 more than a base Silverado without hybrid technology.
WATCH OUT, TESLA
And sticking with green cars for the moment, on the heels of hearing comedian Jay Leno criticize the Chevy Volt for not being cool looking; Edmunds Inside Line reports that Nissan will make an electric sports car using technology from the LEAF. No other details to report but Edmunds speculates that the car could either be based on the 370Z or the Infiniti Essence concept.
FANNING THE UNEMPLOYMENT FLAMES
The Detroit News reports that all those dealers that GM and Chrysler closed down as part of their bankruptcy proceedings made the unemployment numbers worse, according to a report from a federal watchdog. When the automotive task force dictated that the automakers get rid of around 2,000 dealers, it did not take into account the impact that would have on unemployment, the report says. But Congress stepped in and allowed those dealers to appeal their terminations. About 700 of them will be reinstated. I would remind our viewers that GM and Chrysler were dictated the terms of bankruptcy, to get it done in record time. They were literally told how many dealers they had to close, but I would also add, they were very eager to close them.
TRANSMISSION ARMS RACE
Six-speed transmissions really started spreading throughout the market a few years ago. Today, these advanced gearboxes are in everything from midsize family sedans to heavy-duty pickup trucks. Taking the numbers game one-step further – literally – Mercedes-Benz trumped the trend with a seven-speed automatic. Lexus followed suit, topping them with an eight. Now BMW and Audi both offer eight-speed automatic transmissions, but Autocar reports that Mercedes is working on a nine! The new gearbox would be used with large-displacement engines, supposedly offering huge improvements in fuel economy and C02 emissions. Interestingly, Mercedes engineers say nine ratios are the most that’s technically possible and the most that customers will be able to cope with. Anybody remember the Twin Stick transmission that Mitsubishi sold back in the early 80’s? Didn’t that thing have the equivalent of 10 different ratios?
MAJOR MILESTONE
Speaking of numbers….Rolling 100,000 miles on the odometer is kind of a big deal. 200,000 is worth celebrating, and 300,000, well, it’s almost unheard of. But Irv Gordon smashes all of these scores with his 1966 Volvo P1800. According to the Detroit Free Press, this red two-door has – get this – 2.8-million miles on it! That’s 4.5 million kilometers. Making the feat even more impressive, the car has the same engine, the same axles, the same transmission and even the same radio. Gordon is a retired science teacher from New York who just turned 70 last week. He hopes to pass the 3-million mark by his 73rd birthday. He says he’s not sure what he’ll do with the car when it reaches that milestone, but he’d consider selling it … one dollar for every mile on the odometer, but something tells me he’ll keep on driving it.
Mercedes and Audi are in the sweet spot of their product cadence right now, but BMW says “just wait ‘til next year.” More on that, right after this.
U.S. LUXURY SALES RACE
BMW has clawed its way past Lexus to claim the top spot in the luxury segment in the American market. But Mercedes and Audi are now growing faster than BMW. But we recently caught up with Richard Brekus, the head of sales for BMW North America, who says they’re not worried. It all has to do with the product cycle of the competition. And while Mercedes and Audi are strong now, BMW likes what it has coming next year.
The race for sales leadership for luxury cars in the American market is really tight right now, with BMW, Lexus and Mercedes all vying for the top spot. But like I said, right now BMW is in the lead.
And that is it for the top news in today’s global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.
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Comments (28)
July 20th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
The older Volvos and Mercedes were famous for being able to put 100′s of thousands of miles on them with just normal maintaince. I have had Volvo 140 series and 240 DL’s with well over 200,000 miles.
I wonder how well the new models will do with all of the computer controls and electronic throttles, steering and such.
On a seperate note, WHO is going to be trying to restore the current cars in 25-30 years??
Congratulations Irv Gordon keep going strong…
July 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
These new multiple speed automatic transmissions can only help with the city cycle; afterall, the highway cycle is in top gear and no matter how many speeds a tranny has, you can only overdrive it so far.
July 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Hmmm, not sure I buy that 2.8 million mile story on the Volvo. 2.8 million miles divided by 44 years is over 63K miles per year or roughly 250 miles per day, Mon-Fri or 174 miles per day at seven days per week. That’s a lot of driving during the last 44 yrs.
July 20th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Great Job Irv Gordon! Keep our Volvo P1800 rolling. You must really love your car, but where do you drive on a daily basis to rack up all those miles?
Paice LLC and Peter Hofbauer of EcoMotors should team up to bring to market EcoMotor’s engine. Paice LLC has the electronics side and Ecomotors has the engine and casting side. Together these two companys could revolutionize the performance engine industry.
July 20th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Would BMW please do something about it’s customers’ driving. Hogging the left lane is not polite when you aren’t passing. Rolling through a Stop sign as I attempt to make a left is disrespects right-of-way. I’m afraid that as BMW sells to more people, some really crap drivers are buying the car just to show off their money. I used to make fun of what I called the Volvo Road Block, when white knucklers slowed highway traffic, but more and more it’s the Bimmers that are guilty.
Sudden acceleration crisis to come?
July 20th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
John,
My parents had a twin-stick Plymouth Champ around 1980 that was a four-speed plus low range/high range lever. I figured out how to shift it sequentially (some shifts required two hands) but two of the eight speeds were virtual duplicates of each other, so effectively it was a six-speed. Still pretty good for the day! (My folks thought I was nuts, by the way.)
July 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
On E/V sports cars . considering the abject flops the Tesla has had in each and everyone of their TV exposure Test Drives ( Top Gear the battery burned up , Jay Leno the brakes died etc. etc. ) Why in the heck does Nissan think its a good idea to make an E/V sports car of their own ?
HtG;
On BMW drivers . Well you know the ” Whats the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine ” joke don’t you ?
Too bad such a prestigious brand attracts so many ( not all mind you ) idiot arrogant drivers .
July 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
2.8 million miles
divided by 44 years
divided by 365 days
equals 175 miles
even @ 60 miles an hour
equals 3 hours driving a day
EVERY SINGLE DAY
Sorry , never happened
July 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Great show John I’m now reading Crash Course due to your show which has gave me new insight into how the industry works. I’m from New York and I think I see the Volvo with 2.4 million miles in my town.
July 20th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
First the feds force the car makers to hastily close down too many dealers and now they keep wanting to shove those ev’s down our throats, well guess what? just like people vote with their ballots, they can also vote with their wallets and refuse to buy into those ev’s.
July 20th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
chevy volt
——————————————————————————–
i think GM should have made it a sporty 2 door coupe because most greens are not family oriented because they are too busy trying to get the rest of the sane people to think their way to raise a family. i have never seen a prius with more than 2 people in it as most of the drivers are old farts like me
July 20th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
JohnMc., What I don’t understand about the transmission arms race, is why Not- these cars makers just simply try to develop an alternative form of transmissions for their cars?… like CVTs, rather than just trying to fit another gear after gear.
-And this is what I found of Mitsu. twin stick… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Colt
-
NHTSA needs to take a break from putting theirs heads up theirs A’s.
And, I think Nissan is trying really hard to shoot themself on the foot.
July 20th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
I remember the days when I was driving double tankers here in the 11 western states.Mt last rig was a Peterbilt with a 350 Cummins Fuel Squeezer with a 5 and 4 trans combo.They were made by Spicer,it was a 5 & 4.That means for every gear you use on the 4 spd main box,you had to shift the brownie all 5 times.Oh yeah,they were all UNsyncronized.When climbing a steep hill one had to learn the art of “twin-stickin’”.If you screwed up and missed a change,you had to start all over again.20 forwards and 5 reverse.
Then Mack trucks decided they could do it with just 5 syncro forwards.They couldn’t pull worth a damn either.10 and 13 spd trannies with air shift seemed to be about the best combo overall and I guess they still use em.
July 20th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
If GM and other companies would offer the hybrid technology in base level trims and not just the fully loaded ones I think they may be able to make a dent. I think companies would consider spending the extra money if they believed they could see a significant cost savings in fuel over the life of the vehicle.
July 20th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Is it true that the new 3 Series BMW will be front wheel drive??
July 20th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Jim they have to sell loaded hybrids to cover the cost of the hybrid systems because no one would pay that price for a base car.
July 20th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Re transmission “arms race”: The reason we are seeing more and more speeds, is to approach closer and closer to the ideal: a continously variable transmission, which offers an infinite number of speeds. There are CVT’s out there, almost all of which work on the variable sheeve pulley principle. Unfortunately, for various technical reasons, they haven’t been able to replace non-CVT’s. So the next best thing is more and more discrete speeds.
In the 50′s and 60′s, the old Chevrolet Powerglide offered only two speeds. Then the GM turbohydramatic came along with 3 speeds. Then four (one of which was overdrive), five, and so on.
What I’d like to see is more transmissions of the “automatic manual” type, especially double-clutch automated countershaft transmissions. The reason: Non-planetary gears are less lossy than the planetary gears used with the Model T transmission and all automatics starting with the GM hydra-matic of the 1940 timeframe.
I’d also like to see more hybrid electric integration into these advanced transmission designs.
July 20th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Does anyone have any reliability data on these multi-gear wonders? it’s all fine and dandy, but then you get into the really expensive repair or replacement bills for them when they fail. your local friendly tech will not be able to touch them.
July 20th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Pedro, I recall the CEO of Autonation telling John that BMW understood very well that as their cars got more complex, they would increasingly be the only ones who could work on them. Maybe all these gears translates into future profits in the service dept.
ps Having just changed my Miata’s radiator over the weekend, let me tell you, that is one simple car. A quality of its own.
July 20th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
True, my friend and his son, shade tree mechanics, just finished their 1992 BMW 325 restoration and even then, the technology was beginning to get complicated, you could not even dream of doing this to a more recent model. I also long for the days of simpler machines, but I guess I’m just an old guy.
July 20th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
John,
What a difference a few weeks make, the tag line in a new Chevrolet commercial Ït’s what makes a Chevy, A Chevy!” For all of you who hate e/v’s and the Chevy Volt before they are introduced, please keep in mind that you have to start somewhere. The first Prius looks silly and drives funny compared to the latest generation. Give GM and Nissan a chance.
July 21st, 2010 at 2:04 am
Not sure how good a teach Irv Gordan was, he can’t have spent much time preparing lessons as he’s averaged 63,400 miles per year on his 1966 Volvo!!
July 21st, 2010 at 4:18 am
# PureMoose Says:
July 20th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Is it true that the new 3 Series BMW will be front wheel drive??”
NO. WHat is true is that BMW may offer a Mini-clone BMW which will of course be FWD. It may replace the current 1 Series.
July 21st, 2010 at 4:25 am
Why would it be difficult for any customer to handle a nine speed AUTOMATIC transmission? She will not have to DO anything more than she does with her current, noisy, rough, low-MPG, execrable 3 or 4 speed auto tranny!!!
I remember where only the Acura Legensd was offered with a 6 speed manual in the 90s, and the Corvette, which got an AMAZING 28 MPG highway from its sixth gear and its 0.50 very low gear ratio.
Manuals have stopped at 6 speed, but today a 5-speed manual in Top Gear or 5th Gear (what an unfortunate name, BTW!!!) tests draws the contempt and indeed the curses of the testers!!!
I STRONGLY approve of all the recent efficiency gains obtained by the 7, 8 and e3ven the coming 9 speed auto. When you go to 9 speeds, one has to wonder if a CVT would be appropriate.
But I doubt they will stop at a 9 speed. Which automaker would resist owning the Bragging Rights for the first 10 speed transmission?
And here in the Land of the Snail (the US), these extra gears may seem redundant, BUT on the AUTOBAHN, if your car can make 155 MPH or much more, they sure help IMPROVE wear and tear, VASTLY improve your MPG at high speeds, AND improve the all important Noise Vibration and HArshness.
So, do NOT knee-jerk react against every progress made in Auto Design and hardware, some is worth it!
July 21st, 2010 at 5:10 am
EVs of today have NO MERIT. They cannot compete with plug-ins and even non-plug in Hybrids. They are less economical overall than even regular gas or especially diesels. They were tried and FAILED in 1900-1910, when the gasoline engine replaced the stupid things. They are stuffed down our collective throats by the utter FOOLS and IDEOLOGUES, the ECON ILLITERATES in the WH and COngress.
The EVs already have cost the US taxpayers BILLIONS in Subsidies and loans that will never be repaid by the bankrupt Teslas of the world (Tesla ALONE gobbled half a billion all at once). The taxpayers will PAY for these fools’ errands by higher gas taxes, higher income taxes, a VAT, and most likely all of the above.
The solution has been around in EUROPE and it is called the MODERN DIESEL. The CEO of Peugeot recently UNDERSTOOD that such a kick-ass 60 MPG Modern Diesel Compact, aided by an inexpensive START-STOP system (not even a HYBRID NEEDED!) is more than adequatre to address any high oil prices in the future.
July 21st, 2010 at 5:49 am
@Nick: Big trucks have had nine, ten or more speeds in their transmissions for years. So we can’t rule out 10 speed gearboxes for pickup trucks or vans. Most likely they’d be automatically manipulated.
July 21st, 2010 at 8:32 am
I wrote, even before Alex’s interesting point about Trucks having more than 9 gears:
“But I doubt they will stop at a 9 speed. Which automaker would resist owning the Bragging Rights for the first 10 speed transmission?”
Even tho trucks sure need the high numbers of gears more than cars do.
July 21st, 2010 at 5:19 pm
An advantage of continuously variable transmissions, if they can be perfected, is that an automatic system could simultaneously and proactively manipulate throttle and transmission (along with other variables like valve cam phasing, spark timing, and whether to borrow electric power from or charge the battery pack (for hybrid electric vehicles), to bring about the most economical performance. Nine speeds (or ten, or whatever) will hopefully do if problems with CVT’s can’t be resolved.