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I read with curious amusement about the modular build that Tesla is proposing just remembering the 1980's and 1990's fascination with modular build. Modularity has been a quest for sometime. 

There have been some experiments to move it from a concept to reality. GM Gavatai assembly plant proved to be one of the better executed plans. The size of the plant decreased with the building of modular assemblies on the plant site and transported to the assembly line with JIT. The Toyota body shops have shown that there is a balance between the increase use of automation and flexibility. With them flexibility is achieved by strategically utilizing operators to handle the complexities and utilize automation to handle the rest. We will see if Tesla's approach doesn't limit it self with complexity and overburden with capitalization of assets. Kudos if they can.

You also mentioned the performance of Stellantis vs. Ford and GM. Does Stellantis utilize the International Financial  Reporting Standards or the one used by Ford/ GM Genrally Accepted Accountin Principles. There are some differences that can impact the final numbers. A summary of the differences is outlined at this site 



Good info. Thanks for sending. We’ll publish this in Viewer Mail.

Greetings John and Sean, 
Th[is] article by Tasha Keeney does a good job of explaining how Tesla will cut vehicle costs by 50%.  
We already know this stuff from Investor Day, but it is nice to see her perspective on it. 
Perhaps Tasha would make a good guest on your show.  She is an articulate woman with a clear understanding of Tesla’s innovation history and innovation plans.     
Here is a link and an excerpt from her recent article:
“This is a roadmap for continuous cost declines, and scaling production.
Tesla is likely to reduce vehicle costs by ~50% during the next five years. 
• First, it will produce 100% of the controllers on its next generation vehicle. 
• Second, it will switch to a 48-volt battery architecture that should reduce power losses by 16-fold. 
• Third, it will use local ethernet-connected controllers to reduce the complexity of the wiring harness. 
These electrical architecture changes should cut costs and give Tesla more control over its supply chain at the component level. 
They also will enable Tesla to transition its manufacturing to a parallel assembly process, slashing its manufacturing footprint and wasted time by 40% and 30%, respectively.
By reducing its factory footprint, Tesla will be able to accelerate Gigafactory production.”

In my opinion, the people who were disappointed on Investor Day were expecting cake and ice cream.  Tesla served a prime rib dinner instead.  
I hope this is helpful.  
I am always looking forward to your next broadcast. 
All the Best, 
Las Vegas, NV

Thanks for sending, much appreciated.

John McElroy

John and Sean,
This great news! The world has an endless supply of salt and its cheap. Also, the batteries don't burn like lithium-ion do.

These so-called salt batteries, also known as flow cells, seem to be better suited for stationary storage than for cars. Here’s a link to a Swiss company that’s been working on them for several years.

John McElroy
No, it’s eliminating a lot of waste, a lot of non-value-added time. It will have a much smaller manufacturing footprint, which will lower investment costs. The modular approach will allow for a lot more automation, which will slash labor costs..

John McElroy

Greetings John:

I have spent an entire career in the manufacturing sector, and what I see happening now in the electrical vehicle industry is so exciting!

I am a longtime viewer, and I loved your recent segment on Tesla‘s new assembly line and the history of Ford’s assembly line. I share your videos with my family and friends, to explain what is going on with Tesla‘s recent innovations.

Please do future segments explaining Tesla’s new 48 V low voltage architecture and their new permanent magnet motors.

If you and Sandy Monroe ever write a book about the recent changes in the global automotive industry, I will buy it!

Tesla’s investor day is so full of topics that you can be sure that I will continue watching Sean’s daily shows and your weekly shows, as we learn about and support these changes.

Keep up the great work,

Brian, thanks for the great feedback! Sandy Munro will be on After Hours on March 16.

John McElroy

Hello Autoline!

Love your videos guys!

I was recently watching the one on the revolutionized assembly line.
At the start of the video John goes on to say "Tesla is going to assemble cars in a way no one else has ever done before!"
and my colleague jumps in and proceeds to claim that Toyota had been doing the modular thing for years now and referenced this link

Obviously I'm a complete car novice, but maybe my colleague is confused and talking about a different type of 'modular' production?
Best as always!


Toyota’s TNGA platform uses a few modules, but it is not a car made from modules like Tesla is going to do. Toyota assembles its cars one part at a time on a conventional assembly line, while Tesla is not doing it that way at all.

John McElroy

I thought you were take the analogy further as for instance what are four horsemen facing the industry?
What do war, pestilence, famine, and death. appear to the declining ICE vehicle industry.
Perhaps demand, regulation, high interest rates, and BEV for example.
I like Gary with his sober yet sly comment on auto enjoying their fat year for this year will be a lean one; Similar to the dream of joseph, but for legacy auto the store houses are bare.
For GM a giant cruise ship which is sinking, slowly. More pumps are put on, but the ship is rotten. and needs refitting to stay afloat, but you can't do that in the middle of the ocean. They sold fewer vehicles for more money, and it looks good on paper, but it won't last.
If I hear once more about the small percentage BEVs are relative to all cars, I will scream.
I think the Model Y was no 4 in the World. last year +88% in sales with all most all others down in sales.
The handwriting is on the wall, but people refuse to read it. Or maybe they need glasses.
Good Show!
WORLD 2022
1.    Toyota Corolla: 1.12 million (-2.2%)
2.    Toyota RAV4: 869,955 (-13.8%)
3.    Ford F-Series: 786,757 (-8.8%)
4.    Tesla Model Y: 758,605 (+88%)
5.    Toyota Camry: 675,272 (-3.0%)
6.    Honda CR-V: 600,679 (-18.1%)
7.    Chevrolet Silverado: 591,758 (+1.8%)
8.    Hyundai Tucson: 565,100 (+1.2%)
"With 252,000 units sold in the United States in 2022, the Tesla Model Y was the sixth-best-selling vehicle in the American automotive market. Data firm Motor Intelligence stated the Tesla Model Y saw a 32.4 percent sales increase last year compared to 2021". teslarati

We have seen all the problems manufacturers such as Ford and GM have had with their dealerships marking up high demand EVs.
How bad is it going to be for Toyota when they have a high demand EV? They have to deal with regional distributors who have long interfered with Toyota’s plans. It is the distributors who appear to control the packages and trim levels for Toyotas sold in their regions.
Maybe Toyota has issues with its distributors, but it sure does sell a lot of vehicles in the US market.

John McElroy

John---love your show btw.
Your show has inspired me to think about SDVs (Software Defined Vehicles

I've been struggling to wrap my head around what exactly a software-defined vehicle is, but it finally hit me last night. After chatting with ChatGPT, I came to the realization that it's essentially a car with a centralized operating system and a powerful microchip controlling all its functions, as opposed to the decentralized systems and physical mechanisms of a traditional Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicle.

What makes the software-defined vehicle unique is that it uses software to manage and control various aspects of the car, from the engine and transmission to the brakes and other critical systems. The central operating system is designed to coordinate all of the vehicle's subsystems, sensors, and controllers, making it easier to integrate new features and functionalities. The OS communicates with the vehicle's sensors, collects data, and sends commands to the microchip, which then controls the various systems and functions.

One of the major advantages of a software-defined vehicle is its ability to offer improved fuel efficiency, reduced emissions, enhanced safety features, and better overall performance. Plus, since the car's systems are controlled by software, they can be updated and improved over time, providing more advanced features and functionality.

All in all, the software-defined vehicle is the future of transportation, offering a more efficient, safer, and sustainable way to travel. It's exciting to think about what this technology could mean for the way we get around in the years to come.

What do you think?

I think you’ve got it right. A software defined vehicle allows everything in the car to be controlled and operated by software. That also means that everything can be tested and verified before any hardware is built. And that will greatly reduce the time it takes to develop a new vehicle.

John McElroy

John and Sean,
It looks like California is allowing the gross vehicle weight of Zero emission Seim Trucks to be 82,0000 pounds instead of the normal 80,000 pounds to compensate for the extra weight of alternative fuels.

Pepsi said the Tesla Semi is currently used for deliveries of Frito-Lay products within a 400-mile radius and for routes that require up to 425 miles of travel. Pepsi products on daily routes of 100 miles to stores and 300 to 400 mile run to other warehouses. 
The Tesla Semi can charge up to 400 miles of range in about an hour, thanks to the company's innovative Mega Charger, which charges at about 750kW.                                                                                     
The battery packs each weigh about 1,100 pounds in parallel configuration. Their combined 753 kilowatt hours of power results in 300 to 350 miles of driving range with up to an 82,000-pound gross weight. The camouflaged Alpha truck in the demonstration run weighed in at 65,000 pounds. The nine battery packs and the cab together weighted about 29,500 pounds, according to Damon Owens, director of product marketing. 

Greetings from Maryland!

Reading about Nikola’s announcement that they will be using Plus Inc system for ADAS in their Tre trucks prompted me to look at the autonomy in that space (as opposed to the consumer side).  The Plus approach seems very different from Tesla. 

I’d love to see an After Hours program exploring ADAS in the commercial realm.

I appreciate what you guys are doing!  I do miss the in-studio give and take, as well as the (much better) sound quality.     I guess that the studio days are gone, but I do think your producer could give better guidance to your guests regarding sound quality and connectivity.


Thanks for your feedback and suggestions.

We hope to get back in the studio later this year.

John McElroy

Hello John I have a question regarding the Thursdays show 2/23/23. If the EU is gonna preserve their V12 and high end clientele multi million investments after 2035. Can’t the US or better yet shouldn’t the USA homologate the V8 for the big 3? But under more stricter sales mandate a EV/ICE 80/20 split. The argument can be made the USA it was was built on its V8’s as well. 
I think GM, Ford and Stellantis are planning to phase out their V8s sometime in the next decade and it’s unlikely they’re going to ask the government to help keep them in production.

John McElroy

Saw this and thought you might be interested. Looks like they are finally ramping up some.  
Thx for all your shows. Watch them almost every day. I am local and I think it would be fun to be part of a studio audience someday if you ever decide to do that.  

It’s good to see production ramping up, but now it comes down to deliveries. According to the GM Authority, GM made 8,195 Cadillac Lyriq’s last year, but only delivered 120 of them to customers. What is going on?

John McElroy

Your daily newsletter/reminder headline hit a bit different today :" The IRA Threatens a Half Dozen Automakers". To me, the IRA is the Irish Republican Army, the terrorist group/freedom fighters that oppose British rule of Northern Ireland. I know you meant the Inflation Reduction Act. And the Biden administration should have picked a different name so that the TLA wasn't IRA. But even then ... maybe you could have gone with different wording?
Take care
Gee, and here I thought you were going to complain about Individual Retirement Accounts!

John McElroy

Gary asking if he's wrong about the ICE is like the preacher asking the choir, (autoline panel) what is wrong with his sermon. But while legacy auto has been quiet about their continuing efforts in the ICE space, they have been loud, excessively so,.concerning their BEV plans and endeavors.
One thing has been quiet and will remain so is the value of their stock.
You’re right. Unless legacy OEMs start growing their top lines by a lot more every year their stock prices will languish where they’ve been for years.

John McElroy

Great topic for you Thursday show with Sandy as guest.
How is the RV industry going to survive.
Hydrogen powered tow vehicles ?
London, Ontario 
Here is a summary of our first real world trip with the Tesla. 
In August I finally got a chance to take an actual real world trip with the Tesla and the 27’ Tommy Bahama we are customizing to mate with it. The roof is finished along with the tire and wheel change but we still have the awning arms, LP cover and undercarriage left to optimize. When Covid hit we pulled it out of the shop, customers units have been more urgent than mine. 
We took it on a trip 148 miles from home to a boondocking spot 70 miles from a supercharger. 
We left Saturday morning and headed east out of London into a 12 mph headwind driving 55 MPH I had an 80% charge since I was only going 78 miles to the supercharger. 25 miles out though the screen showed we would only have 10 mile reserve. No problem we stopped in Woodstock at the supercharger and in 12 minutes added 40 miles of reserve. 
In Waterloo we had stopped again. This was an expensive stop because there was a shoe store across the street and Heather has been on months of shopping withdrawal. 2 pairs of shoes later the car was charged and we headed north to our destination. 
There was no way I would make it to our destination and then back to Waterloo on a charge but part way there was a ChargePoint station where I planned to top up but alas it was out of order. So no problem 18 miles past our destination was another supercharger I would just run up there over the weekend and charge it. However we met the farmer across the road and he let me just plug it in there for a couple of days. So when we left to head back to Waterloo we had an 75% charge. 
Driving back to Waterloo we went through an hour of thunderstorms with lots of wind and heavy downpours. With the Tesla there is absolutely no feel like a gas engine as to how hard the car is working I was watching what I could see of the road not the screen. Between the wind and driving through the rain and running defogger we used more power than I expected but still made it to Waterloo with 15 miles of leeway. 
At Waterloo I thought I won’t make it 80 miles home in these conditions so I’ll just pop in 80% and plan to top up in Woodstock again. However the wind was calm and the 80% charge took us all the way home with 30 miles of range left over. 
This Tommy is considerably heavier than the 22’ Bambi we towed to shows in February but the weight difference is impossible to perceive towing. There is just so much power you simply can’t tell. 
Easily the most stable solid on the road vehicle I have towed just a delight to drive even in sideways rain, nothing just totally planted. 
I can’t get over how much I love this car. Hopefully we’ll get some more mods done to the trailer before a longer trip in September.
Andy Thomson

John McElroy:  Was watching one of After Hours and the hydrogen storage problems.  This technology to me means that large trucks, trains, container boats cold use this as well as Hydrogen fuel cell cars.  Perhaps could be used in peak storage applications for the grid.  Vic
As Spock would say, “Fascinating.” Thanks for sending!

John McElroy

As Sean has repeated his request for comments on the CATL plant location being rejected by Governor Youngkin.
The VA location is near Navy facilities, NC and VA research institutions, and N.E. pipeline supply, not where their product would be used.  
Also, there is no major rail or highway access at the site.
It is the same M.O. as the purchase of land tracts next to Air Force bases.
VA and NC does not need chicom money or farmland pollution.
Not everyone is a whore.

...Is GM (or gm) a chicom company...
I think so
I don’t think so. GM makes way more profit in the US than in China. All the top management are Americans. And GM’s Defense unit must make the Chinese Communist Party uncomfortable.

It is strange how the things of old keep creeping up and causing problems.
Henry Ford early V8 had a Mono-rod bearing that served 2 rods. It was a floating bushing type which enlarged the bore of the rod due to like of oil. They found by splitting the bearing and using a tab to prevent the bearing from spinning in the rod that the life of the engine was much greater. BMW found that by not using the tabs on the bearing that cost could be reduced. But the problem is that the crush of the bearing and the friction isn't enough to hold the rod and main bearings tight. When the main bearing spins it cuts off the oil to the rod and wham-o.
Rumor has it! Just ask Ford on their early 6.7 engine how much they saved or what the replace cost of a replacement engine is.

On the question is GM using Ultium batteries in the Lyric in China? Check out this article. Also, check this one out 
talks between GM and LG for the fourth battery factory broke down when LG learned that GM was pursuing cylindrical batteries”. 
It sounds like there are issues with LG Chem pouch batteries and GM wants alternatives.

Great info, thanks for sending!

John McElroy

We engineer types have questions regarding the EV cabin heating system you described today. My friend bought a Kia Niro with a "cold weather option," a heat pump for heating (and AC), which he says gives him cabin heat by the end of his driveway. That seems like a simple and elegant solution, but I wonder how it compares with that fancy control system you described today. Does it still use resistance heat, which can't compete with a heat pump for efficiency. Cabin heat is not divided by the number of passengers. 70% saving is based on how many people being heated?

The key to Gentherm’s Climate Sense is an algorithm. It can work with any HVAC system in any car, but they add features to optimize it. Check out this link.

John McElroy

Hi  John
I’m hoping you can give me some insight on the Mazda lineup?
I’ve read that the CX50’s underpinning are from Toyota and that it rides rougher than a vehicle with Mazda underpinning.
The CX5 rides better than the CX50.
Do you know if the CX70 and CX90 are Toyota, or Mazda underpinning??
I’m looking at the CX70 possibly, but if it’s sitting on a Toyota chassis, I’ll pass.
Our 2010 Mazda 3 has been a great car.
Thanks for any info,  that you may know or can find out on these vehicle.

I sent your question to Mazda about the platform on the CX-90 and here’s what they had to say:

It’s an all-new large platform from Mazda. The CX-60 in Europe is based on this platform as well. The new platform is being used for the all-new 2024 CX-90.

The CX-70 will be based on this new large platform as well. We will have more details on the CX-70 later this year.

It is not a platform from Toyota. It’s an all-new rear-biased large platform from Mazda.

Thanks for the question, this helped us out, too.

John McElroy

What happened to the Nobe 3 wheel car that Sandy Munro had been helping with and had invested in?  If one had showed up in my neighborhood lightly used, might have become my first EV. 

Sandy says they’re struggling to raise money, like most EV startups. He did not exactly invest in them. They paid him in stock because they don’t have enough money. But Sandy says the car has been well received in Japan.

John McElroy

John, General Motors went from 9.2 million/2012 to 5.9 million/2022 in 10 years... What is GM'S endgame ??
Remember, GM pulled out of Europe and a bunch of other countries because it couldn’t make money those markets. Now, with EVs, it’s hinting it may return to Europe. We’ll see if that actually happens.

Better to sell fewer vehicles and be very profitable than to sell a bunch more cars and not make much money.

John McElroy

Thanks for asking Don Sherman my question about the E-Ray battery charging.  
I guess I'm in the minority about Corvette as a "brand."  Don seems to be ok with it, and people continue to compare it with Porsche's selling CUVs.  The big difference to me, is that Cayenne and Macan are Porsche CUVs, not 911 CUVs.  Porsche is the brand.  Using Corvette as brand for CUVs would be like if 911, rather than Porsche, were the brand for Cayenne and Macan.  I've probably bought my last Corvette, so their annoyance to me probably won't matter in lost sales to me. 
Anyway, great AAH.  Thanks.
Kit Gerhart

You are right John. It will be many years before GM, and others, are in volume production of EV's.
It reminds me of the mid 1970's gas crisis. Carmakers re-purposed their V8 production lines to make 90 degree V6's. They were terrible. It took many years for the big three to make a decent V6 or 4-cylinder engine. The Japanese had a 10 year head start.
I believe the same thing is happening again, only this time it's Tesla that has the 10 year head start.
Grants Pass, Oregon

John, Just put up $2,500 deposit on a new Tesla, not on the internet, but @ Edward Jones; I bought a few weeks ago: 25 shares in Tesla Stock *Interestinly: Edward Jones the next day promogated and upgraded Tesla Stock to a buy... It is now already at $4,500 which I knew was coming, when production numbers were released... Lol When the Stock value hits the retail amount of a new Tesla; I will purchase one... !!        Is it better to own the car company right now, then the car?... ;) ;) Debate.         JBOND 

Great timing with that investment. I hope it works out for you.

John McElroy

Just fan mail. Still the best place to go to for the skinny. Autoline.
Congratulations, where almost everyone is going crazy, you keep a tight rein on your mercurial temperament, you've learned to control, that Irish temper, and come through after hearing from all sides, to indicate where we really stand. 
Things are not looking too good for GM, as you say, for instance.
Have a good year, as every year at this point is good, even if bad, if you know what I mean. 
Is it the end of dealerships, will Tesla take over, will legacy auto crumble? Too easy, give us some difficult questions to answer.
Great feedback, thanks for sending.

John McElroy

Hello John and Sean,

I just read an article on how many Lincoln dealers did or did not sign up to invest in selling and servicing EV models.  The article referenced Cadillac and Buick's plans and outcomes with their dealer body as well.  You may think I am crazy but I think they are making a  big mistake.  I know some execs at GM and at Ford, and privately they will admit that this was a golden opportunity to thin their dealer numbers, especially getting rid of their smallest sales points.  I wonder how much strategic thought went into these initiatives. 

In my mind, one of the few advantages Cadillac and Lincoln have had versus their European, Korean and Japanese luxury brand competition is that they had a much larger retail footprint, giving them representation in many areas that the imports felt were irrelevant.  And, while the sales numbers did not add up to a big edge, it also gave them the ability to conveniently service customers that live there as well as owners that may be visiting the area.  Since I grew up there, I am very familiar with the franchise histories in the UP and it makes for an interesting illustration of the companies' strategy.  Losing a few smaller dealers may have been desirable.  Losing all of them and leaving large areas with no representation seems short-sighted.  

Two years ago there were four Cadillac dealers spread around the UP, providing service to tourists and residents alike.  Today there are NO Cadillac dealers in the Upper Peninsula.  And, while its not a large population area, its not deserted.  And tourism in the area is off the charts.  The dealer in Marquette also had Buick and GMC and that gave the dealer the ability to offer vehicles of all price points.  It also gave him the ability to make a decent living with the combination of the three franchises.  Now, I think that dealer will sell to the local Chevy dealer and its likely that GM will have a Chevy-GMC dealer in Marquette and nothing else.  A pretty sad state of affairs.

Marquette, MI - population 20,629 

Marquette County - population 66,103

Upper Peninsula - population 301,609

Marquette is the largest city in the UP, and  Marquette County is by far the largest population center in the UP.  The closest Cadillac dealer to Marquette is now in Rhinelander, WI, 113 miles away.  Next closest is in Green Bay, WI, 142 miles away.  And third closest is in Traverse City, MI, 152 miles away, with this caveat - the Cadillac website dealer locator provides this distance, but that is in a straight line.  So, unless Cadillacs can now cruise over the waters of Lake Michigan, owners would have to drive over the Mackinac Bridge and then over to Traverse City, a distance of 282 miles according to Google Maps.  

Until last year, there had been a dealership in Marquette with the Cadillac franchise for at least 60 years (that is as far back as I can remember).   There was one on the southern border of the peninsula in Escanaba.  There was also one in Iron Mountain, which is along the direct route to Green Bay. 

This means that the two closest Cadillac franchises that remain are 394 miles apart, approximately 6 hours and 48 minutes driving time.  In fact, if you have a nice cabin in the northern lower peninsula and drive your Cadillac up for a week at the lake and need service on your vehicle, your only dealership option north of Bay City is Serra Cadillac in Traverse City.   The same situation exists in Wisconsin, where many residents have a cabin in the northern portion of the state. 

During my family's time in Marquette, we owned six Cadillacs.  What this means to me is that residents of the area will now buy a different brand.  Probably a really nice Chevy or GMC.  They don't want to own something that they have to drive so far to get serviced.  I know some GM dealers will do warranty work on GM brands they don't carry, but that is rare.  And, if its a recall or a repair that involves special tools, you will have to make the drive to the Cadillac dealer.  I am fairly certain that the Lincoln dealer in Marquette will follow the same path as the Cadillac dealer did.  He did half the business that the Cadillac dealer did. 

I have heard the two main arguments for reducing the dealer body and I don't buy either of them.  It will save the OEM money.  Dealers don't cost the OEM anything.  In fact, they eliminate the carrying cost of inventory, so the more the better as long as they are spread out in reasonable market areas.

The other one is that smaller dealers can't or won't provide the customer experience that the brand wants for their customers.  The reality is that people that live in areas like this have lower expectations for customer treatment and don't want to be bothered with the niceties.  They just want their luxury vehicle serviced correctly.   They are just fine sitting on the couch next to the Chevy customer while they wait for their vehicle.  Its probably their neighbor anyway.  Small volume dealers have historically had much better CSI scores than the larger metro dealers where shady sales practices are much more common.  I saw this first hand for years calling on dealers across the country as a sales rep for GM.  

Well, its time for me to get off my soapbox.  Time will tell if I am right, I suppose.  

As always, I'm interested in your take on issues like these.  You always have very good insights.

All the best,
GM Veteran
GM Veteran,

You are spot on. Getting rid of dealers (unless they’re bad) in rural areas is not going to help any automaker sell more cars or make more money. It may make sense in urban areas where there are too many dealers and who just hurt each other’s profitability. But in remote or rural areas it doesn’t make sense.

John McElroy

Hi Guys, 
I just love your show...I know it costs money, but will you ever start the live show in your studio again? 
Just miss the live action...
Cheers, Des

We will get back in the studio as some point, but right now we can get just about anyone we want on the show. They no longer have to be in Southeast Michigan to come to our studio. Some of the people who came on the show had a 40 minute drive one way, so coming on the show became a 3-hour commitment for them. It’s hard to get top executives to make that kind of a time commitment. Doing the show virtually is so much easier. Even so, we do want to get back to the studio. Stay tuned.

John McElroy

Hi, John

Comments on Autoline about Tesla FSD Causing a lot deaths was disturbing to me as Tesla actually Net saves a lot of lives. It is hard to commit Suicide in your Garage with a Tesla. Look at YouTube video of "Whole Mars Catalog" recent driving 31 miles with no interventions or Local Tesla driver Dirty Tesla who uses FSD BETA on his daily drives from Fenton to Ann Arbor for three + years. He I believe is accident free and I have driven 70K miles mostly on AutoPilot accident free. Tesla tells all of us to pay attention at all times. Slowing down Tesla's ADAS system development according to Sandy Munro will cause more deaths. Invite him to your show to discuss this Topic. It will attract a lot of viewers. A person does not really understand EV's and Charging unless they own one and drove it daily. 
 I have a Driving Tesla Safety Score of 99%. Do you have a vehicle that has a similar feature? I think all cars should have it as it is likely to reduce reckless driving. I still sense anti EV sentiments from you and Gary. Have you had discussions on the California Devils Slide accident? All cars should be this safe with a strong glass roof vs. an easy to bend tim roof. 

Take Care, Frank

Hi John and Sean,

I have started to be a snowbird and am considering buying my first electric car that would stay in Michigan for five months or so during the winter and maybe another one down the road that would stay in Florida in the summer months.  I know about care for ICE vehicles when they are stored, but how about EV's?  Do the batteries get damaged when they are not used?  Can you trickle charge an EV or leave them plugged into a source in your garage safely?  How would prolonged heat or cold affect the vehicles?  What about the mechanical components?

I hope you can work this into an After Hours or Daily program some day.

John, by the way, I recently talked with someone who remembered my appearance on your show Autoline Detroit with Csabe Csere about the rights in event data recorders.  That must have been 20 years ago!

Thanks.  Michael

We finally got some answers on storing EVs. You should keep the battery at 70% state of charge, or higher. Other than that it’s no different than storing an ICE car.

John McElroy

Good day,
Very interesting to hear about Mercedes plans to open charging stations. I thought the big oil companies would be the ones to make this move. Once ICE's are gone so will the gas station. 
Mr. Dana
Gas stations will be around well into this century. It takes the US about 22 years to completely turn over its fleet of vehicles. Let’s assume no new ICE vehicles are sold after 2035. That means the last of them will come off the road around 2057.

John McElroy

Hello John, Sean, and Gary,
Could you tell me whether unionization makes GM, Ford, and Stellantis more competitive or less so than non-unionized car manufacturers?
Thank you.
Uncle Bob
With work rules and lines of demarcation, the Detroit Three generally face a more restrictive work environment than non-union automakers.

John McElroy

Let’s hope they’re successful. It’s one thing to announce you’re bringing back the AC Cobra, it’s another thing to get it in production and sell enough to be profitable.

John McElroy


Thanks so much for the kind words. We’re really excited about what we can do this year!


John McElroy


I’ve been watching your reporting on the Chevy Bolt and I share your interest in it being an affordable vehicle. It looks like the $7500 tax credit will stick from January through mid March until the Treasury makes up the rules. I’ve decided to put a deposit down on one since my daughter will be driving soon and a third car will be handy for around town.  Hopefully I’ll get one in the next couple of months before the tax credit gets chopped in half. I’ll keep you posted on my experience.

Stow, Ohio

You’re getting a screaming deal. Let us know how it goes.


John McElroy

John and Sean,
This article does the best job I have found to describe how the eFuel is actually made. I think it would have been much easier and more efficient to capture CO2 directly from a current manufacturing facility that is generate CO2 then trying to capture CO2 from the atmosphere. I would use a combination of solar, wind, and battery storage to power the eFuel plant.  


Thanks for sending this our way, it’s a good article.

While you’re probably right that it would be easier to use CO2 from a current manufacturing source, capturing CO2 from the atmosphere sure has a nice environmental ring to it. No doubt Porsche favored that approach as it tries to save the IC engine.

John McElroy

Long time listener to your podcast and videos. I came across this Ted TAlk about electric vehicles. I think Toyota has it right. This is why my next purchase will be a hybrid. 

Claude Savard

That new Prius looks terrific!

John McElroy

Regarding Jim Morrison, SVP & Head of Jeep North America being a Guest on a recent Episode of Autoline After Hours; the main reason I like both Jeeps and Land Rovers is because of their earlier usage as Agricultural, Commercial, and Industrial vehicles with the availability of Power Take-Off Units, their earlier ability to be used as substitutes for Agricultural and Construction Equipment (such as a Tractor), both Jeep and Land Rover having a history of mixing and matching parts from other vehicles (such as the Buick/Rover V8 that the British had purchased from the Buick Division from GM, and the related Buick V6 that Jeep while under the ownership of Kaiser had purchased, and once AMC had purchased Jeep and had their own Inline-6 Engines to use in Jeeps, they sold this V6 back to General Motors); and the history of both Jeep and Land Rover, including the AMC Eagle being a Jeep product, the XJ Cherokee and the MJ Comanche both being developed mostly by Renault when they held a stake in AMC, influences from the Concord/Hornet/Eagle being included in the development in the XJ and MJ, it being Renault that converted the AMC 242 cubic inch Inline-6 into the widely-known and Fuel-Injected 4.0 liter Inline-6, the parts the CJ line had shared with other Willys and Kaiser products, the parts the J-Series Pickup and original SJ Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer had shared with other Kaiser, AMC, and even General Motors vehicles, the parts that the XJ and MJ had shared with other Renault and AMC vehicles, in addition to the GM 2.8 liter V6; the parts that the original Land Rover Series I/II/III/Defender had shared with the Rover P3 and P4 Passenger Cars, and the parts that the original Range Rover had shared with the Rover P5, P6, and SD1 Passenger Cars.

Hello Autoline Folks

Love your shows. Watch autoline daily and after hours and most anything you put out there.

My issue is those zoom shows you have been doing since Covid. I really miss the in studio shows. They were much better than the zoom or whatever it is you use. I know it is much cheaper I would imagine but zoom calls really suck. I really hope you get back in studio soon. Just my opinion/wish.

Thanks with your feedback.

We grapple with this all the time. Having people in the studio is best, but they have to be in Southeast Michigan or we can’t get them. And even those who are located here can’t often break free to drive to the studio and back. So that’ why we’re still doing the show virtually.

John McElroy

I completely disagree with your news story that EPA market stats should take account of the type/size/power of each OEM fleet before raring them as high or low pollution.
Reason: the rest of the world manages without full size pickups so if Americans continue to buy these in combustion form then of course their emissions are the only relevant measure.

Either make less or change to EV powerchain, then we can congratulate Stellantus (etc) for reducing fleet emissions.  Under your proposal, buyers and sellers will be more inclined to get bigger vehicles than they need, thus increasing US pollution. As we share the atmosphere to breathe, very much prefer if your incentives (and stats measured) helped reduce emissions rather than encourage more!
Worcester, UK

(personally driven 105,000 car miles on electricity and changed jobs to bring large freight trucks in EV form to market ASAP)

Hello AD
As a long time viewer of your daily & weekly shows, 
i see an upcoming issues with new cars (ICE & EV's). That
car electronics will be the new costs of new car owners. Not
so much the engines, trans, tires etc but the gadgets that
is causing costs & as you said Friday's episode Lives. 
Why do we need heated steering wheel, why do we need
more than one computer screen that distracts drivers. 
Why do we need both front seat electric motors or
so many buttons on the steering wheels that would make
our parents shake their heads. 
Maybe you can discuss this on your Thursday show.  
Anyways my 2 cents worth. 
Thank you much
waynesville, NC

Any info you know about Zoox automotive? I've seen them in Las Vegas on three occasions. I guess they are testing here.
Have you ever covered on them?
Thanks. Happy Thanksgiving.
Grateful for all of you.
Been a fan for several years.
Zoox was bought by Amazon and continues to be one of the contenders to take autonomous technology into production.

John McElroy

Good day Mr. J. McElroy. In December 2021, on Autoline, you discussed the revolutionary Omega One engine.

Of course, the simplicity of the design, the absence of oscillatory movements, the separation of cold and hot processes, the high degree of air compression and the large torque lever give it advantages over other engines. However, only when hydrogen is used, it can provide the declared characteristics. But this is dangerous technology. And when using benzine, its performance will be less high. Although better than others. Because with the expansion of the combustion chamber and the pressure drop in the chamber, the combustion process quickly stops. And a significant part of the fuel flies out into the pipe. This is shown by the practice of operating traditional engines. Complete combustion of fuel is possible only at a constant volume of the chamber. Also, the reliable operation of an engine in which the operating temperature of the interacting parts is very different and this is not compensated by anything is very problematic. I would like to suggest some improvements for the Omega One engine that, in my opinion, would provide a more stable operation of this engine and the ability to use simpler technologies in its manufacture. Please pass on my suggestions to Astron Aerospace. I appeal to you because you are open for communication. It would be necessary to patent it, but I do not have such a possibility (I am a disabled-pensioner). And I would like this idea to be applied and I would get something. Since Astron Aerospace is busy fine-tuning its engine, it is unlikely that they will take on another. Maybe with your help someone will be interested in this constructive idea??

With respect Iuri. 

John, have you had any shows about Tesla’s new painting processes? My question is whether body shops will be able to adequately duplicate the paint?

New Haven, CT

I have not heard about this new painting system. The article calls it revolutionary but doesn’t provide any details as to why that is so.

John McElroy

Any info you know about Zoox automotive? I've seen them in Las Vegas on three occasions. I guess they are testing here.
Have you ever covered on them?
Thanks. Happy Thanksgiving.
Grateful for all of you.
Been a fan for several years.
Zoox was bought by Amazon and continues to be one of the contenders to take autonomous technology into production.

John McElroy

Hi John,
I'm curious about the Autoline take on what appears to be the introduction of a North American Fiat 500E at the L.A. auto show on the 17th of this month.  I know that the 500E has been a top EV seller in Europe for several months but is this too little, too late for the NA market?  With virtually no advertising/marketing in the US, the Fiat brand seems to be present in name only and I just don't see how this could be anything other than a Hail Mary attempt at penetrating the entry level, low cost EV market in NA.  What do you guys think?

100%. Small cars like the 500 just don’t sell well in the US. It will give the dealers something new. And it will have a relatively low price. But sales will probably be very modest at best.

John McElroy

I'm sorry John but once again you are completely full of shit.  The Celestiq is an ugly, overpriced piece of shit.  Cadillac has never been or ever will be the standard of the world.  Not to mention who, with half a brain, would ever pay 300k for a caddy?  No one.  The thing you don't understand is GM has NEVER listened to what they customer wants in it's entire history.  They just ram their own garbage down people's throat, telling them what they want.  They also make up awards and give them to themselves.  Let's not forget the bailout.  Stop sucking GM's flaccid dick you hack.  


We are going to cheerfully publish your letter so that others can read it too. That way, everybody will know what an uncultured, vulgar, no-nothing you are.

All the best,

John McElroy

I'm curious about Autoline's opinion. As several OEMs chase (or avoid) the latest woke trends, are they risking associating their brands with a political ideology? Are they looking at Tesla and saying "maybe polarization is good for sales".
I'm reading the news about brands suspending their Twitter advertising, and it has me wondering about this risk.
Thanks Autoline!
Automakers are loathe to take political positions unless it’s something that directly affects their business, like fuel economy standards. They know that if they take a position on something, they’ll alienate half of their customers. So they avoid political statements altogether.

Most OEMs are temporarily pausing their advertising on Twitter, probably for two reasons. First, Elon could be about to make Twitter politically radioactive. So they’ll wait to see if that actually happens. Second, why would they spend millions on Twitter and help out Elon? Imagine if General Motors bought CNN, or Fox. Every other automaker would instantly suspend their advertising with those media outlets.

John McElroy

Hi John,
Today's speaker at our Chrysler retiree's breakfast (retired from Powertrain) declared that each Tesla consumes such quantities of rare materials for its batteries that could instead be used in many hybrid vehicles.
He implied that if the goal is lowest impact on the environment, a fleet of hybrids in USA would give a better net impact than a fleet of BEV's.
Has Autoline heard this argument before?  Should I be asking folks at CAR this question or Sandy Munro's guys?
Thank you,

This is exactly the argument that Toyota has made.

Great subject for your show... Netflix: Fugitive: The Curious Case of Carlos Ghosn.
- A
Saw it, it’s excellent! Required viewing for anyone interested in the auto industry.

Most telling moment, when Louis Schweitzer says Ghosn’s excuses were bullshit.

John McElroy

John -

I’m a long time listener and avid fan of your show. I want to make it clear that I’m a 55 years old white haired owner of two hearing aids driving an ICE vehicle kind of guy.

I very much enjoyed the recent podcast with John Smith and talking about his history with GM/Cadillac. I was amazed however when the discussion came to the future viability and future business viability of EV Vehicles how you once again missed an important point.

When John looked back at his career and his love for the Cadillac brand he often talked about the emotional cues of buyers.

However when you discussed the business liability of EV‘s you never once mentioned the environment. Young people are energized by this so dramatically that it’s amazing you continually miss this salient and so obvious fact.

People want to buy great vehicles but they also want to live in A world with less pollution and they feel that this is how they differentiate from old folks who “don’t get it “. When you talk about legislation it’s always about the dollars and cents of it and never about the necessity of it in terms of fighting climate change.

Even if you strongly believe that climate change is a hoax and that it’s all a liberal left-wing conspiracy, the business case is still incredibly clear but that the environment is a very important driver for this market.

Keep doing what you do, but get ahead on this issue even if it’s not what you grew up with in the industry



Thanks for your feedback. We’ll publish your letter in Viewer Mail so others can read it too.

John McElroy

Why was the Model T So Successful?
Most people attribute its success to the price but there were other cars that were initially in the same price range. The Model T was by far the best designed and with the extensive use of high strength steel the most durable and reliable of the low priced cars.
There were other significant issues that contributed to its success: 
1. Ford had the most dealerships 
2. It was simple to repair and a significant number of people in those times could do it themselves. Unlike other companies Ford insisted that all dealers have a service department available to repair cars for the customer who chose not to repair it themselves.
3. Ford developed a dealership and parts system that no one else could compete with.
4. Ford’s strategy that any design changed part must also fit the existing Ford cars was brilliant! He did not need vast warehouses of obsolete parts so the customer could keep their car running. The dealers were obligated to keep a supply of all parts on hand and Ford had District Representatives that would keep track of dealer compliance. If a dealer ordered a part he got the latest version fresh off of production tooling.
There are dozens of companies today designing leading edge electric vehicles with no plan of how to keep them running. You will buy your car from some palace-like showroom and drive off into the sunset and nothing will go wrong, go wrong!! Tesla, and I truly respect Musk, was able to survive their lack of service because early adopters will typically tolerate this to prove to the world they are smarter!!
Subsequent new entrants will not have this customer tolerance! There is going to be as big a fall out of auto companies as there was in the early 1900s. The survivors will not necessarily be the latest whizbang but the companies that can keep their customers' cars running. This will require some new service concepts, and not necessarily created by the people currently with the most service experience! 
Just Remember: Once upon a time, Henry Ford was an inexperienced upstart!!     
Don L

I really enjoyed hearing John Smith — but my view is that he is out of touch with up and coming car buyers.   

My 30+ yo daughters and their friends really want electric cars. They can’t afford them, but they certainly want them.


I don’t think that John Smith is out of touch, but I do think events will prove him wrong and that EVs will sell well.

John McElroy

Is there anyway you guys could talk about EV vs ICE efficiency? For example, the wiper blades on a Tesla are mostly tucked under the hood to reduce drag. The bumper barely has any pockets/gaps where air could get held up at such as a fake grill or emblem/logo. They could build or indent the logo into the hood. 
They maximized aerodynamic performance, and the old fashioned automakers don't seem to grasp the idea of designing a vehicle that slips through the air with ease. Furthermore, ICE vehicles look like the were designed without efficiency in mind.. it's like they didn't care. It's common sense! Land or water, a round ball will travel with less resistance than a square cube. Duh! 
ICE vehicles could be much more efficient if designers held this as a top priority, but they choose not to.. why?! 
Two problems that affect efficiency, #1weight and #2 aero. If we can help push this enough, then ICE vehicles won't have a chance. Lets hit them where it hurts! Gas companies will be fine in the end anyway, our planet won't.
And Sandy Munro needs to be on for this talk as well!! It's a must.
Btw, I'm taking an online course on electric vehicles. It covers business, policy, and technology when switching to EVs. 
Thank you, I really hope you make this conversation happen! 
Hopkins Minnesota.
Automotive Mechanic

Thanks for your feedback, good topic.

We’re also going to publish your letter in Viewer Mail so others can read it too.


John McElroy

Hi John, still listening and enjoying the autoline after hours podcast, one of my favorite parts is after the main guest segment is over. When your panel discusses recent news, annoucements and trends, i think you could do a whole show just doing that (once a month or quarter for example), its nice to hear the panel interacting and hearing different opinions and insights …anywho keep up the great work ..thanks Mike

Whenever someone claims Tesla needs a low cost EV, the bitter memories of a 1980 Chevette come to mind. It so spoiled our impressions that my wife forbid me from even looking at another GM vehicle. Besides, Tesla does not need to steal sales from the wildly successful, profitable, low cost EV leaders, the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt.

Thanks to a combination of manufacturing, procurement, and design improvements, inflation is making the Model 3 into the entry EV. BTW, trade-in of my last Toyota Prius Prime, meant my 2019 Model cost $24,000. Is that low enough to be an entry EV?

Retired Engineer
Huntsville, AL

Hello John,
I just finished watching the discussion with Bob Hall.  He has experienced a lot during his automotive journey.  I like; Marketing is hard, they make you buy something you don’t want.  Sales are easy, they sell you something you do want… good storyteller!
Thanks for the Miata story,

I see all these new 'battery factories' are going to green fields away from city populations.
It looks like an economic and environmental disaster in the making, 'in the name of the environment'.  
Does government propaganda dictats extend to the auto press?
r work
Battery plants are quite clean, cleaner than assembly plants for example.

Maybe you’re referring to the mining and processing of raw materials for batteries. That’s an issue. But ICE vehicles also require a tremendous amount of mining for that platinum, palladium and rhodium that are needed for the catalytic converter. These are very expensive and rare materials that require extensive earth-removal to get to them.

John McElroy

Just want to send a quick comment on the new Flagship Caddy: love 99% of it. Only problem I have is that it'd look much better as a sedan. You can even see the 'hidden' sedan in some of the angles. Too bad they sacrificed the styling for aero.
If the Celestiq was an ICE car, maybe they would have gone with a more 3-box sedan shape. But in the EV era, aerodynamics rules the day.

John McElroy

Hello I recently purchased a Mach-E2022 it has had problems since day one I have the car for 11 days before it malfunctioned. I want to get for to buy the car back, please advise?
Sorry to hear you’re having problems with your car. If you want to have Ford buy it back you’ll need to see if you qualify for the Lemon Law which varies from state to state.

You’ll need to show that you gave the dealer and Ford ample warning with a written notice that you had a problem with the car. You have to show you gave them the opportunity to fix it. You need to be able to show they were not able to fix it.

We recommend that you contact the Better Business Bureau’s auto line. It has helped millions of customers with the Lemon Law.

John McElroy

This is all you can do here  - do you do this in US?   
Kind Regards

There are hill climbs in the US, but with the exception of Pike’s Peak, you don’t hear much about them.

However, there is a tremendous amount of 4x4 off-roading which is very popular on our side of the pond.

John McElroy

Hey guys,
With car designers now able to focus on content / design details that could potentially make each model a home run, instead of having to share development dollars  with expensive / complicated ICE drivetrains, are we in the second Golden Age of car design?
S10 Baja
BEV powertrains eat up more development dollars than ICE powertrains. But BEVs give designers more flexibility, so we will see a Golden Age of car design. In fact, it’s already started.

John McElroy

Just a thought!
Perhaps a metric we should begin to look at is a “Convenience Parity” or the difference between gasoline and electric auto issues like:
1 Time to charge versus time to fill
2 Cost to fill vs cost to charge  
3 Availability of charge points vs # of gas pumps
4 Repair site availability
5 Cost and time to repair
6 Cost and availability to tow 


Those are good metrics. But the charge time and # of chargers is changing so fast it would have to be constantly updated!

John McElroy

Hi John,
I'm surprised you have not covered the Nord Stream Pipelines feeding Germany being taken out.
How will this affect the German Auto manufactures including Tesla?
Grants Pass, Oregon

Since Russia already cut off all gas supplies to Germany and those pipelines were not being used, the sabotage is not going to affect automotive production. But the gas shortage has every automaker in Germany scrambling for alternatives.

John McElroy

Hi Sean,
I have really enjoyed the show over the years. I am a big fan of old American muscle cars and EV‘s. (Odd mix, I know)
My question for Tim Kuniskis (Head of Dodge)
Q: Why are two of the most popular Muscle cars from Dodge, (Charger and Challenger) being made in Canada? 
(If Tesla can do it in high cost, California, why can’t the Big 2 1/2 do it in Michigan.)

Thank you!


Sorry we didn’t get to your question on the show, but here’s the answer.

Stellantis (even FiatChrysler previously) allocates vehicles to assembly plants based on its product cadence and which plant is available for retooling. So products move from plant to plant over the years.

The only plants that don’t change are the main Jeep plant in Toledo, OH that makes the Wrangler, and the truck plant in Warren, MI probably due to its big size.

John McElroy

I've been meaning to respond to John's YouTube video that asserted that legacy automakers use far more CPUs and that this puts them at a competitive disadvantage relative to Tesla.

I'm not in the automotive industry, but I am an EE and have been employed to design electronics for several decades now.

This 'fewer CPU' notion is a recurring topic on Autoline, so much so that it prompted me to undertake a comparison between Tesla and Mazda(SkyActiv) that I posted in a tiny corner of the Internet last year.

The summary of the above link is that Tesla has quite a few CPUs.... more than a recent Mazda.

Moreover, a centralized CPU doesn't help with reducing wiring
complexity. Bosch's CANbus was a major innovation when it was first introduced (late 1980s if I my memory serves) because it allowed fewer wires between several 'islands', each with its CPU. Running discrete wires to an entire car from a centralized point is not efficient; that's why modern automakers segment designs into 'front body control' and 'rear body control', for example.

Moreover, a centralized CPU doesn't help with reducing wiring
complexity.  Bosch's CANbus was a major innovation when it was first introduced (late 1980s if I my memory serves) because it allowed fewer wires between several 'islands', each with its CPU.

It wasn't that many months ago that Tesla fanbois were claiming how creative Tesla was to "replace microchips with microcontrollers" due to chip shortages. Microcontrollers are CPUs, so if Tesla's superiority is due to having fewer CPUs, surely this would have been a huge step backwards.

This is not intended as criticism; I enjoy Autoline immensely.  I'm just a bit skeptical of this fewer CPU notion.


Great feedback. We’ll publish this in Viewer Mail so others can read it too.

John McElroy

I wish that Charger EV design would have been an earlier ICE redesign a few years ago,
BUT, this new model does demonstrate what 'legs' that second gen Charger (around '69?) design had in terms of form purity that could endlessly be reinterpreted.
AND, I don't like EV's for the long distance recharge issues.  So, If I could, would not buy one.
r work

Dear John & Sean
Watched after hours last night ( airs here 8.00pm- 9.30pm)
Oh dear  new cars are getting dreary , faceless and plain ugly - far too big far too heavy .
Here in UK all land is privately owned - you cannot go off road anywhere at all unless you own the field . Range Rovers are only bought in order to impress others that you own a country estate - in reality most drivers  live on a modern housing estate in a tiny modern box . London now has a 20mph blanket speed limit  enforced by number plate recognition cameras  - each time  3 points on your licence (12 gets you disqualified for a year ) and £100 fine . Many motorways have already been lowered from 70mph to 60mph  - in Portsmouth  city the speed limit is 10mph . So you do not need 500BHP  or even 200bhp 
 Pick ups are of no interest to UK drivers at all  - they are a vehicle that would mark you out as a builder.
 Charging points in UK are a total nightmare  and totally hopeless way to get around the country  - a 3 hr journey turns in to  a 6 hr journey hunting for a charger that fits your car  and is in working order -  most are not,   two cars in front of you might add 3 hrs to the wait . Electricity cost in UK is already up by 300% in the last 12  months  and public chargers double that cost again - now as expensive as petrol.
Anyway what I am interested in is the 2022 Delorean  - you gave it the briefest of mentions last night 
Texas-based DeLorean Motor Company – formed by British engineer Stephen Wynne, who acquired the rights to the original firm’s name and branding in 1995 – earlier previewed its modern-day take on the mid-engined DeLorean DMC in a cryptic tweet confirming limited details.
Perhaps you could do a piece on what is going on there .
In the early 1980s John Z Delorean  got a grant of £80million  from UK taxpayers    - £350million in todays money  to build the plant in the middle of the terrorist zone in Northern Ireland 
As you no doubt recall  it is likely the  breaches of law etc resulted in Colin Chapman having a heart attack and dying  in December 1982 at 54 years old  very nearly 40 years ago now 
Incidentally here is 5 min film  I shot this past Saturday at a Lotus gathering   

Keep up the good work  - never miss it 

Kind Regards


Your last AAH episode on EV logistics got me to thinking.  Right now I see new charging stations popping up.  They are usually one to six units sometimes in front of retail but more often now at the remote areas of large parking areas.  The latter would be a red flag for me.  I would not want to be exposed for a half hour sitting in a higher end electric vehicle waiting for a charge.  Persons doing this would be too easy a mark in this time with rising crime rates.

VinFast has quietly updated their website for each vehicle, the VF8 and the VF9, with battery inclusive pricing. The FAQ has also been updated, with the specific question "Do you have options to buy the vehicle and battery to avoid the Battery Subscription?" now having the answer of "Yes, it is the customer's choice to purchase their VinFast vehicle inclusive of the battery at the full retail price or to purchase at a lower price by enrolling in a battery subscription program with a fixed monthly payment"
My assumption is there has been so much 'hate' about the battery subscription initially being the only option that they listened to the criticism and decided to change their minds and offer pricing for the entire vehicle purchase. Thought this was newsworthy. My son and I watch Autoline Daily everyday on YouTube after work/school. Keep up the good work.
Mike from NC

Back to 1965. That was the year my dad bought the only new truck he ever had.  A Ford F100 Base model.  He would never consider an automatic transmission or power anything.  "Too much to go wrong" he said.  The only reason he got the optional rear bumper is the dealer threw it in with the Dealership name cut into it via a hot wrench.  No peeling that off!  Over my lifetime I was fortunate to be able to afford luxury, sports, specialty and aspirational cars. Whether foreign or domestic, the thrill of ownership was often dulled by the frequency of needed repairs or hassles of pot hole blow outs of low profile tires for these complex vehicles.  So in the golden years of driving Nan and have chosen to eschew such vehicles and in particular avoid range anxiety of electrics.  We will ride off into the sunset in our base models with non-turbo engines and proven powertrains. No turbo, multiple drive & self leveling suspensions with auto park and auto steer ever again.  "Too much to go wrong".  Dad was right.


After hearing about the car seat heaters and remote start using your key fob, from BMW and Toyota, what are your thoughts on this? Are there features that you would be fine paying a subscription as a service for?
Is there a way that this can work out without it feeling predatory? Say for instance all cars come from the factory with all options but they are locked until either paid for or subscribed to.
Might some sort of economy of scale be beneficial to said car companies?
I think there will be loads of backlash and many might opt for trim lines that might have those features that we may be forced to pay for, but all the companies need to do is just stop offering these.
I'm all for companies to make a profit but at what cost to their band are they willing to go?
Thanks again
Fairbanks Alaska

I currently subscribe to four different newspapers, two streaming services, and have a monthly charge for my phone, for an internet connection and for cable. I’m sick of paying for “subscription services” and I think that automakers are going to face a consumer backlash unless they have something mighty good to offer.

John McElroy

Hey John 
Here’s my question for you, what are your thoughts on this …
Since every car that is made is selling out due to supply chain issues, are there some conclusions the manufacturers are making that are flawed and will trip them up in the near future?
Best example is, what is the terminal limit on consumer interest or people’s logistical  ability to have an electric car?
If all the manufacturers go to 100% electric but the ability or interest is capped at even 60% then what happens??
Will used ICE vehicles end up having a vastly increased demand and thereby keeping their prices much higher?
What will happen to the people who used to be the third or more owner of a car (at the 7-10 year mark of life) that need the ICE because they can’t support EVs (live in apartments  and don’t have overnight charging ability for example) and they are used to buying those vehicles in the $10,000 or less range but that market dries up because all ICEs retain values higher and out of their price point? Will we end up with a Cuba-like car subculture of used ICE vehicles?
And as a result would used EVs not really have a market for the third or more owner of a car and as a result those would have a much lower value at the 7-10 year mark ??
Would love to have an Afterhours discussing the future of the used ICE and Ev market 
Thanks so much for all you and your team do 
Macon Ga 

All automakers say their “goal” is to eventually go full electric. But if enough customers stick with ICE, that’s what automakers will build for them.

However, as emission and fuel economy regs get tighter, the cost of ICE vehicles will go up. And as their sales volume goes down the cost of making them will also go up, and that will be passed on to customers. Meanwhile, the cost of making EVs is going to be going down. We’ll likely see a crossover point by the end of the decade where BEVs cost less to make than ICE cars.

As for used ICE values, let’s see what the market decides. If there’s enough demand for a shrinking number of used ICE vehicles, prices will go up. But it’s also possible that IC vehicles will lose their residual value as more consumers decide they want an electric.

Great topic, thanks for suggesting we do a show about this on Autoline After Hours.

John McElroy

Hi John, could you please ask Tim if the U.S. market will see a small to midsized truck. Could Dodge send the trucks in the South American and Mexico plants to the U.S.  Thank you from a longtime viewer Joe K.

Tim is the wrong guy to ask about this. He runs Dodge.

Mike Koval runs Ram, which handles the truck side of the business.

John McElroy

Hi Sean,
What is up with so many videos of electric cars doing smokey burnouts? Emission free huh? I am already down on them because they require 8 times more mining mother earth to build and they last about 8 years then there must be a whole bunch more mining to produce another battery. And since they are heavier they produce more tire particulates, which is 1000 times more toxic than the particulates coming out of an ICE car tailpipe. And now smokey burnouts seem to be a sales pitch! That is disgraceful.

Here are a couple of things you may not know.  
1.  Do you know that in California some of the best charging stations are at boat marinas?  Boaters use them to charge up their boat batteries and other appliances.
2.  Google "liquid speed bumps".  
Thanks for listening.

Car companies are rushing headlong into EV production. Governments are pushing the move, often for political reasons driven by CC activists. We've drunk the EV Kool Aid, and are we headed for disaster?

1. We are still largely fossil fuel based in generation (60% in the US). Wind and solar don't match the demand load to charge EV's at night so we need huge storage that we don't have.  

2. We dream about the perfect battery, but we can barely meet the demand for batteries now and we will need to fix generation, transmission, resource mining, manufacturing, electricity storage, charging infrastructure and probably a bunch of other things that we don't know about. We're pretending this will work.

3. Governments are usually wrong and car company executives will say whatever will garner them favor.

4. While we fiddle with EV's the problems get bigger. In the past we have ignored nuclear generation which could have given large amounts of electricity free of CO2. In the same way we now ignore PHEV's because they have an ICE component, but that approach would give a gradual transition to electric transportation. It would give the infrastructure time to build. Also, why lug around 1,200 lbs of scarce batteries in an EV for the odd time we drive 300 miles when we could get away with 120 lbs in a hybrid and build ten vehicles that could run electric for the average daily drive?   
We need some sober second thought here and we need to look very hard at what we can do.  We've repeatedly failed to meet CO2 reduction goals so why keep doing the same thing?  Yes we can build an EV, but does it make any sense in the real world?
Tony H

Thanks for writing to us and being so detailed.

We’ll publish your letter in Viewer Mail so others can read it too.

John McElroy

Hi John,
I listened to After Hours Thursday and was surprised that you as such a motorhead did not recognize Paul Gentilozzi. He was/is a racer that found support from Oldsmobile in Trans Am via his team then called Rocketsports racing a Cutlass bodied car.
In 1991 GM decided to consolidate all auto racing under one group headed by Herb Fishel as part of Profit Improvement Initiative 14 of the 26 key actions they needed to reduce cash burn. We had a group VP as our champion. I think it was Mike Mutchler.
Anyway, Herb was much disliked by the other division chiefs, but he got the assignment to create what at that time became known as the GM Motorsports Technology Group. As one of my assignments I got to add being Herb's 'bag man'. My job was to figure out the budgets and manpower each division devoted to racing programs. Only Chevy and Buick had much dedicated staff. Pontiac and Oldsmobile used mostly contractors, some with questionable ethics.
One of those programs was Rocketsports and Paul Gentilozzi. Another one was Irv Heorr. We were able to up their game with an all new Olds Aurora race engine and purpose built race car bodied as an Aurora for IMSA GTS. About that time I left to become manager of Design, Mockup and Dimensional Management for the soon to be produced EV1. You will recall that the original IRL engine offered in 1997 was an Oldsmobile Aurora somewhat different than the road race version.
Having worked for Herb since 1986 I can tell you stories that even Herb does not know and will probably never be told.
Now, my own motorhead as been spun 180 degrees since buying two Teslas and I am all about EVs. If you ever want to hear some old racing tales from inside Chevy and GM i'd welcome to chance to squeeze in a lunch. I live in Rochester Hills not far from Sandy Munro's shop.
BTW - If Michelle Krebs wants, I will drive her to Cincinnati in my Tesla and show her how easy it is Matt DeLorenzo made some really good points about affordable EVs, too.
I listen to Sean everyday and After Hours Thursday by podcast.
Dick A

Thanks so much for sending this. Lots of great information! And it’s always the best when you hear things like this from someone who was on the inside.

If I ever find myself with some free time, I’d love to hear some of the war stories of GM Racing.


John McElroy

Did you ever give an explanation/tour of your updated Autoline Daily automotive memorabilia?  Maybe I missed it?  Is the “centerpiece” an artists interpretation of a Citroen DS-21?  A Citroen, really? LOL!  How about some automotive “royalty”, maybe a 1963 Ferrari 250 GTO…

That painting you refer to is a water color of my 1968 Citroen DS that a GM designer, Christos Roustemis, did for me.

John McElroy

Would like to suggest a more comprehensive review TESLA SCRAPS PLANS TO BUILD BATTERIES IN GERMANYon the product mentioned in the July 28th episode. The two companies working together Siemens and ConnectDER. Main question is it possible nation wide home charger electrician company Qmerit install the devices. City codes and regulations for home and apartment owners could make this more viable option. This would serve the personal charger Level (2) we need at home more affordable. This could make for a great episode on "Autoline After Hours".
Rick K

Dear John and Gary;
A couple of questions / comments
My Bolt EUV has three separate cooling systems. Where is the waste heat supposed to be dumped if not through a radiator and “grill”?
(FYI The three are Cabin HVAC, Traction Battery environmental controls, and electronics cooling.)
From Sandy Munro’s POV, which is more important, building a car with a couple of castings or being able to repair the car after a “minor” accident? Should a vehicle be designed for the ease of fabrication or the ease of repair? Can you have both?
Speaking of repairs, How do you think the current dealership model will continue when the shops no longer have any work to do except rotate tires and change the cabin air filters? (The only time my i3, or Bolt, or Bolt EUV have been back to the dealers were for recalls)
On charging EVs. “Folks” keep singing the praises of the Tesla charging “network”.  If their network is so great why are there Teslas charging at Chargepoint and Volta stations?  When asked how long does it take to charge my car I say a minute to plug it in. I have to drive to a gas station for my other car which once connected to the pump can get 500 miles of range in less than 10 min. I doubt I’ll ever see the day any EV will be able to match that.
I’ve been driving BEVs since 2015. I take a trip trough the western US almost every year (except the COVID ones) and only this year have I seen any EVs out on the open road miles from the nearest city or town. For many years the most Teslas I saw “on the road” were all on car carriers. From casual observation the most popular car on the roads here are Semi’s and Subaru Outbacks.
Something else to think about. With all of the automation being installed in today’s cars what are the manufacturers proposing for those vehicles where cell carriers decided to turn off service? E.g. 3G is gone so none of the original BMW i3’s telematics work. None of the Chargepoint stations near my house show up on the Chargepoint app due to the 3g sunsetting. My current Bolt is 4G but when that goes bye bye what replacement path is there short of buying a new car?
Enjoy your shows,
Lee W

Thanks for your letter and all the great questions you raise.

We’re going to publish this in Viewer Mail so others can read it too.

John McElroy

John and Gary,
I watched your interview with Sandy Munro last week again and as always with great interest with your YouTube presentations.
I was first introduced to Sandy on your show some years back and when he started his presentations, I have been a avid follower as I have been of Autoline Daily + your weekly shows.
As always, I found Sandy’s input of GREAT value even though he can go off script.
Sandy is a strait shooter and appears to not suffer fools lightly and he is my type of person with unbelievable experience who will admit if he is wrong.
Regarding the discussion around the demographics of BEV and TESLA take up I found interesting.
I am the HAPPY owner of a Right-Hand Drive TESLA 2021 model 3 [ with FSD – yet to arrive ] which I purchased in December 2020. I believe it was the or one of the first shipments out of Shanghai.
I am 82 years young the TESLA M3 is the SMARTEST and SAFEST vehicle I have ever owned. The Me does much of the driving for me. Not sure how many persons in my age group drive TESLA’s but I cannot be the only one.
I still run a SMALL BUSINESS @ but might consider retirement in the next few years.
Is the TESLA 2021 model 3 the best or most luxurious car I have ever owned or driven. NO, it is not.
My previous vehicle was a 2012 Chrysler 300C Diesel which was a much larger & more luxurious vehicle & in my estimation the best car I have owned or drive,
I have driven a Mercedes, Cadillac but both disappointed. I drove a Buick Electra as a Chauffeur in San Francisco in 1966 and it was the second-best car I have driven or owned. I also had two GM Australia V8 Statesmen which I enjoyed but the 2012 Chrysler 300C Diesel. Was the best in my opinion.
Will I ever go back to a ICE vehicle . A BIG NO. Why? I have 23 Solar panes on my unit and a TESLA PowerWall2 and I power my TESLA 2021 model 3 at night at a special tariff rate after 11:00pm. *0% of my power for my unit and TESLA 2021 model 3 come form the SUN so the TESLA operating cost are NIL to ZERO.
Keep up the EXCELLENT work that you & Gary do as it is most appreciated even here DOWNUNDER.
Regards, Laurie

Excellent feedback, thanks for sending.

We’re so glad you liked our show with Sandy Munro, and congratulate you on your Model 3 purchase.

John McElroy

Just heard your Daily episode from the other day where you were talking about how many people who paid a mark-up wouldn't ever go back to that dealer to buy another car or get their car serviced there. Implication being that they were very unhappy with the transaction. But there is another explanation: people buying from non-local dealers.
It's not unusual for enthusiasts to go well out of their way to get the car they want, even going out of state. If it is an in-demand model, it's easy to think that the 10 or 20 closest dealers to them might not have one in the right color/trim combo or any allocation slots to order one in the couple weeks. But someone, somewhere probably does. So they buy that, pay through the nose for the privilege. Since it's so far away, they have no intention of getting their car serviced there and it's unlikely that they'll buy a new car from there either. So they can be perfectly happy with the transaction & not plan on interacting with that dealer ever again.
I doubt that would be the case for everyone, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't represent a significant chunk of over-MSRP buyers.

My question is:
When did people start thinking it is ok to walk into traffic?
We were not brought up that way.
Even in bright sun, glare can hide pedestrians.  Get back to training traffic avoidance!
r work


How long is it going to take for people to realize that electric cars
are NOT going to save the planet?

When I see that electric cars are your main topics I just DELETE the
email and go on to the next.

Between the mining for materials to make batteries and on down the line
from there they are NOT any better than ICE'S.

This is just another plan by the globalist elites to control how much we
travel and how far we travel.

Our country has been taken control of by IDIOTS!

Glen Martin

PS: Being a retired welder then welding inspector it reminds me of coal fired power plants. after installing scrubbers on the coal fired furnace's and getting the Stack output down to zero particulates and only some steam on cool days they decide to close them down because they are harmful to the planet. So our tax dollars pay for wind generators (that don't work in subzero weather) and then we have to pay for the electricity they generate!

We cover EVs and everything related to them because that’s what the auto industry is investing so heavily in. If the industry gets into something different from that, then we’ll cover it too.

I respectfully disagree that BEVs are not cleaner than ICEs. Take a look at the life-cycle analyses from independent companies such as Riccardo, AVL and even the IEA, the International Energy Agency. They all show that EVs are significantly cleaner than ICEs, including everything.

John McElroy

Mike Ramsey is not Sandy Munro by his Tesla comment that "those [Tesla rjw] cars definitively won't become autonomous." If he had provided any engineering or technical data to support his denial of Tesla capabilities, I would have been interested and enlightened. Instead, he made a flat statement that my 2019 Tesla Model 3 is incapable of autonomous driving. Yet in the past four weeks, I completed four, 720+ mile, 17-18 hour trips between Huntsville AL and Coffeyville KS and have 'fingerprint' evidence that it does work.
Mike violated Dr. Deming's rule that you must bring data or otherwise it is just idle speculation. He did not bring data to support his condemnation of Tesla self-driving efforts. I'm in the Sandy Munro / Dr. Deming camp ... 'show me the data' as I have recent, ~3,000 mi., +76 hours of AutoPilot butt time. 
Bob Wilson

A price of a base EV could be below the latest US rebate threshold. But add in optional equipment, it could be above. What if you purchase a base model to keep the price below, and then buy the options afterwards? Buy the vehicle without the fancy wheels to keep the price down. When you take delivery, swap for the optional ones. Battery swapping is designed into Chinese Nio's. Buy with the short range batteries and swap to long range. Tesla's FSD is another example. Buy the vehicle without, and then install it via OTA.
Neil G.
Normal, IL

No doubt automakers, dealers and customers are going to try every trick they can think of to qualify for the EV credits.

John McElroy

Hi John and Sean,
Regards to episode AD 3387, traffic accident segment. "Why are fatalities and accidents going up with modern auto technology"? A thought that crossed my mind and I would be interested to know, what model year of vehicles are these accidents happening with? If the data is available, maybe break it down by decade. If the majority or large portion of the accidents are happening with vehicles w/o driver safety tech, that could explain a lot. Along with; speeding, distracted, and impaired driving. Thanks for your time.
Mr. Dana 

Sounds like ArgoAI didn't make it. When that came out, I thought, if you do it in Pittsburgh, you can do it anywhere.
Argo is still going strong, It’s testing Ford AVs in Miami, Washington DC and Austin. In 2025 it plans to open an AV service with VW in Germany.

John McElroy

Dear John:
Thank you for having Sandy Munro on your show (again) this week.   Unfortunately he was very talkative and did not give you and Gary a chance to ask the questions that you wanted.   I have not see him that talkative in a long, long time.   You must be old friends.
for having Sandy Munro on your show (again) this weekI have an interesting GM video that I would like your thoughts about  the plan and future.
It really gives good focus on how to manage new products and reach the SCALE that is required for profit.
As you have seen the refresh every year and new model every 5 or so is now looking very outdated.   As cars become more electronic, the updates have to happen monthly with the over the air updates.
Marion NC
A loyal viewer.

I disagree with the conclusions of this video. Legacy costs killed GM, not its model range. In 1965 when GM had nearly 50% of the US market, its model range was more complicated and overlapping than it was in 2008 when GM went bankrupt. In fact, no automaker can achieve 50% market share without a degree of overlap and inefficiency. That’s the price you pay to achieve such market dominance.

Also, the point that GM’s global sales fell from 2017 to 2021 ignores the fact that GM got rid of Opel, and pulled out of Europe, Russia, India and Indonesia, and ignores the impact of Covid and the chip shortage that brought down sales of every car company in the world.

John McElroy

I don’t believe in Consumer reports anymore; It has changed hands 3 times and seems like pay off is the menu. I even cancelled their subscription

Hi, I just thought you might want to hear about a recent experience my father just had when picking up his new Ford mustang Mach-E at Sunrise Ford in North Hollywood California. 
Back in February 2022 I surprised my father by placing a pre-order for the new Ford mustang Mach-E premium. 
  Several months later, 6 to be exact when my father’s new Mach-E arrived at the dealership and he got a call from his sales rep at Sunrise Ford that his car had just arrived. My father then told the sales rep that that he was going to pay cash for the car and was eager to pick it up right away.  The sales rep then ask my father to give him a few days to get the car ready for him and then arranged a day and time for the pickup. When my father arrived to pick up his car a few days later they approached him with additional paperwork right away and told him that they added and additional cost to the sales price of $1,500.00 for a new LowJack system that they had just installed on it. They totally did this without his permission or his knowledge! This extra cost was in addition to the already added 1,000 dealership ordering fee. 
   When my father told the dealership that he did not want, wish for or need that LowJack system on his New Mach-E and would like them to now please remove it, they said they would not do it. They told him that he could either pay the $1,500.00 for the LowJack system on the car or just walk away from the deal. They told him he could Quote; “Take it or leave it!”
  Also my father learned that this LowJack system installed on his new Mach-E came with a control box that was mounted to the cars dash panel right next to the steering wheel. This keypad had several buttons on it and it was also used as a combination keypad that he would need to enter every time he got into the car otherwise his car would not start. 
  My father then asked them to please turn that feature off as it was to much of a hassle for him to use. My father is 88 years old and this would just not be easy for him every time he got into his car and wanted to use it. So the dealer did show him how to disable that combination key entry feature by putting the LowJack system into Valet mode he said. Additionally the dealership refused to remove that LowJack control keypad mounted to his new Mach-E’s dash panel. 
   My father is understandably concerned that the dealership may have drilled holes through his Mach-E’s dash to mount that LowJack control box but the dealership would not tell him if they did that or not. 
  Overall my father’s experience was just horrible they made him an 88 year old man feel like he wasn’t valued at all and that in fact they didn’t even wish to sell him the car. After hearing about this experience at Sunrise Ford I will personally think twice before ever purchasing a car through a Ford dealership for myself, especially at Sunrise Ford. 


Thanks for your story. This just makes you scratch your head and wonder why any establishment would treat a customer this way. Car dealers will regret how they’ve taken advantage of their customers. This is going to come back to haunt them.

John McElroy

Sandy is magic for honesty.  Thanks.
There appears to be a major disconnect between automakers and the availability of charging.  How can so many models be out but without a sufficient charging network?  There is zero charging where we are at in semi-rural areas.
When does Sandy feel inductive charging will happen with vehicles?  This would be the game changer, as many rant about how to charge when in cities and condo/townhome areas.
love the show!

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