Episode 653 – GM and Ford to Close More Plants, SLS AMG Roadster, VW Targeting MAN

May 31st, 2011 at 12:13pm

Runtime 6:45

Even though GM and Ford are recovering quickly in the American market they still want to close more assembly plants where they have slow-selling models.  Mercedes is introducing another lust-worthy supercar, a drop-top version of its SLS AMG.  Volkswagen announced it wants to completely take over MAN, the German commercial-vehicle maker.  All that and more, plus John shares some of his thoughts on the 2011 Kia Optima SX.


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This is Autoline Daily for May 31, 2011. And now, the news.

Even though GM and Ford are recovering quickly in the American market, making billions in profits and hiring back thousands of workers, they still want to close more assembly plants where they have slow-selling models. Bloomberg reports GM wants to close its plants in Shreveport, Louisiana, where it makes the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon . . . and its plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, where it makes midsize trucks . . . as well as the Saturn plant in Tennessee, which is sitting empty. Ford wants to close a plant in Minnesota where it makes the Ranger as well as the Flat Rock plant in Michigan that makes the Mustang and a plant in Ohio that makes the Econoline vans. Presumably Ford would move the Mustang and Econoline to other plants. And it’s entirely likely GM will move some other production into the former Saturn plant.  And you can be sure that the fact this information has come out now has to do with the UAW contract negotiations that will start this summer. Ford and GM done laid down some bargainin’ chips.

Renault just made it official, naming Carlos Tavares COO. Tavares was born in Portugal, is a motorsports racing fanatic, and even races himself. It’s his hobby. He was also on the LEAF electric car team early in its development. He had been the head of Nissan in North and South America and now Colin Dodge will fill that position.

There’s a battle going on in China over the best way to keep electric vehicles charged. According to China Auto Web, one government-owned company along with several Chinese automakers say battery-swapping stations are the best way to go, just like the company Better Place is arguing. However, the China Automotive Technology and Research Center doubts the viability of battery-swapping stations and says focusing on fast-recharging facilities is the best way to keep EVs juiced. It points out that with battery-swapping stations they would need to produce three to five battery packs for every EV on the road. It also says that it would be difficult to run a centralized network in an orderly and efficient way.

2012 MERCEDES-BENZ SLS AMG ROADSTER (login required)
Mercedes is introducing another lust-worthy supercar, the SLS AMG.  High performance is a given with this machine.  It’s built around a light-weight aluminum structure and features a 563 horsepower V-8 engine paired with a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission.   With a fabric top, gullwing doors are out of the question, so the roadster version makes do with front-hinged conventional units.  The retractable roof is available in three colors – beige, black and red, and can be operated at speeds up to 31 miles an hour.  Impressively, the drop-top’s curb weight is only 88 pounds more than the SLS coupe’s.  Pricing for this AMG monster is still unknown, but I can guarantee it will be A LOT.

The heavy-truck sector is seeing a lot of action these days as global sales soar. And now Volkswagen says it wants to completely take over MAN, the German commercial vehicle maker. VW currently has a 30 percent stake in MAN. VW plans to merge MAN with Scania and its other commercial-vehicle operations into one unit. However, VW is running into anti-trust issues from the German government.

Well, this qualifies as a REALLY BAD day at the office.  Autoblog found this little gem on YouTube.  For one reason or another, this presumably Russian car-transporter ended up on its side; its precious cargo definitely worse for wear.  Rescuers on the scene are working to right the stricken hauler, but comically things go from bad to, well, still bad as they flip it over.  The truck bounces a little as they pull it back up and then it tips over again, landing 180 degrees on its opposite side!  I hope they’ve got insurance!

It wasn’t all that long ago that Kias were something of a joke. Not anymore they’re not. Coming up next, my Instant Impression of the Kia Optiima.

One of the most amazing turnaround stories in the automotive industry, from a product standpoint, has to do with Kia. Just a few years ago it was hard to take the brand seriously. But now the company is a real player as I found out in a recent test drive of the Optima.

So far this year, sales of the Optima are up a staggering 97 percent.

And that’s today’s report on the top news in the global automotive industry. Thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

58 Comments to “Episode 653 – GM and Ford to Close More Plants, SLS AMG Roadster, VW Targeting MAN”

  1. tj Martin Says:

    Mercedes AMG SLS ;

    All those poor folks that’ll be spending their hard earned on the re-badged 2012 Viper be it convertible or coupe .

    Bet they’ll be moaning when they realize next year they could of spent half as much for the same car and …

    They Could a Had a V10 !

    Instead of of a measly V8

    That nose just needs a V10-V12 to justify the length

  2. pedro fernandez Says:

    Is the Chinese Auto Tech and Research Center their own version of our CIA? John, when do we get to see a full report on the Optima, looks are one thing, but driving is the MOST important. And yes in today’s market a well equipped car like that can easily go for over $30k.

  3. T. Bejma Says:


    Couple of clarifications on the GM plant closings…

    1. Shreveport is actually part of the “Old” GM and not part of the post Bankruptcy “New” GM, so technically closing that plant will have no affect on the “New” GM. They were already written off, probably to go with whomever bought Hummer (since they did make the H3 there).
    2. Janesville was a Full Size SUV plant and has been closed since late 2008.
    3. The Saturn Plant in Tennessee, although not building a vehicle, does do some component manufacturing for GM.

  4. T. Bejma Says:

    Have to admit that KIA and big brother Hyundai are putting out some very physically attractive offerings, however, my experience working with several Korean suppliers is that quality and durability still leave much to be desired. It seems to be a culture in Korea that it is acceptable to falisfy test results and lie to the customer. Very similar to the attitudes of North American suppliers 10 – 15 years ago. I’ve got to believe that these practices will start affecting warranty and reliability as soon as any of the new cars start getting some miles on them…

  5. pedro fernandez Says:

    On the factory front I wouldn’t be surprised that the Mexican-built Mustang will be coming our way in a few years, might as well change the name to Ford Burro.

  6. tj Martin Says:

    KIA ( not so ) Optima

    NYTimes – ” engine is rough , handling is unsettled ”

    AutoWeek – ” even over the smallest of expansion joints on the Freeway , the Optima jerked from side to side ….. interior feels cheap … braking was unstable ”

    Ultimately Looks add up to a flat zero when the content and quality is poor .

  7. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    Or they could build the Mustang in China and call it the Ford Muskox . Sad thought . Especially when its only Ford thats making reliable cars amongst the Big Three .

  8. tj Martin Says:

    @ T Bejima

    We need your input on KIA/Hyundai more regularly .

    I got the Gripes , but you got the Facts . Both are needed to make a clear case on the ( not so ) Dynamic Kimchi Duo

  9. pedro fernandez Says:

    I don’t understand why John does not provide us with more complete test drives, any new car looks and smells nice, but how does it drive? In the viewer mail portion of this website someone wrote to say that the reason Malibu has not done as well as it was expected to, boils down to the fact that the GM 4 banger engine pales in comparison to the Asian brands.

  10. Artimus77 Says:

    Ford has been trying to close the St. Paul plant for years, but they’ve been having a hard time of it since the Ranger got so popular again. I still don’t know why they would close a plant with it’s own hydro-electric dam.

  11. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    Good question , so I second the motion to ask John about this ( #9)

    Honestly I’d rather have no test drive reports than quickie test drive reports .

    If I’d of based my opinions about the SRX from the first 20 miles I’d of bought the thing . It was the rest of the 600 miles I put on it that Told the Tale .

    Everything and Anything can look good initially .

  12. SalvadorG. Says:

    What do you say, when a guy named Dodge is running Nissan?

    Nevermind the swapping, considering the Chinese government plans for the future number of hybrids in China.. I can’t imagine how big a station will have to be to keep all the batteries it will need (if it needs at least 3 for every car)?

    Man, I truly like Germans; they always want to take over something. RESPECT!

    pedro fernandez Says:
    May 31st, 2011 at 12:55 pm
    On the factory front I wouldn’t be surprised that the Mexican-built Mustang will be coming our way in a few years, might as well change the name to Ford Burro.

    - Good Idea, love the name LOL, although; and if you think about it, the Ford Mustang still uses a solid rear axle. So yeah! EL Ford Burro.

    2011 KIA OPTIMA SX
    JohnMc. very nice first view and nice leather stitching but, was that covering (what looks like) a cheap plastic console!??

  13. tj Martin Says:

    So I thought , being an American ( of European descent SG ) I’d have one last look at what the Big Three might have to offer in the range I’m looking at . We know what my opinion of the SRX is . JEEP is a reliability nightmare waiting to happen , so I thought I’d read what Edmunds.com etc. has to say about the Ford Edge/Lincoln MKS.

    OUCH !!!

    Words like Sub Par , Not comparable to its competition , cheap materials , no advantage over the Edge ( MKS ) etc etc .

    Nary a good word to be said .

    So much for that little look see .

    Back to square one ( GLK )

  14. tj Martin Says:


    If you hadn’t noticed , VW has been targeting everything of late including Alfa Romeo . The term is GREED not Respect .

    Seeing as how you may have missed that , you’re also most likely unaware that VW’s current debt is staggering , with no end in sight …… Which means like so many others over the last ten years VW is another ” House of Cards ” just waiting to fall over .

    Just wait and see

    Winterkorn and Marchionne ; Disasters in the making . Just give them both enough rope and time . They’ll hang themselves along with anyone else who’s hitched onto their Wagon heading straight to Hades

  15. pedro fernandez Says:

    TJ re #11 if anyone is really serious about buying a car and don’t have money to burn, you need at least 3 or days with a given vehicle, highway, traffic, rain, hot weather and then ask your self: is this gonna be good enough for me in the long run? a 5 or 10 min test drive is useless.

  16. john787 Says:

    The increase in sales of the Kia Optima is a staggering 97%. But, how many were sold the previous year? It’s not uncommon to double the amount when to start with, not many were sold the previous year.

  17. HtG Says:

    John, I hope you keep the labor relations news and commentary on the front burner.

    On John’s test drives, I take John’s reviews as highlights of what he found after driving a given car for about a week. We hear him and guests chatting before AAH about what cars they’re driving for the week. I saw a red KIA forte sedan on the highway today; very sharp looking.

  18. tj Martin Says:

    The Epic Battle of the Monarchs ;

    In this corner . Kaiser Winterkorn . Hell Bent on World domination at any cost ( including the German Publics financial well being ) Buying up anything anyone will sell him . Driving VW’s debt to stratospheric proportions while bilking the German Tax Payers for billions of € in subsidies and Union , what amounts to bribes .

    In this corner . The very pretentious Emperor Marchionne . Just as Hell Bent if not more than Winterkorn on World Domination . Buying up Chrysler shares as if his pockets were deep , when it fact he’s getting FIAT’s Debt up to VW’s levels . All while condemning , lying , and making false promises to every Union he deals with . Again with Italian Tax Payers money subsidizing each and every one of his Greed Driven moves

    And all the while the Kaiser and the Emperor are circling one another , just waiting for the other to blink , so’s to take over the others assets . With all that non existent money they both have on hand . Raising their debt to even higher heights .

    So who will win this Epic Battle of the Monarchs ?

    No One .

    Who will lose ?

    Well that’d be the Tax Payers and Workers of the US . Italy and Germany as well as all the other countries FIAT & VW do business in .

  19. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    Money to burn or not , 10 – 20 minute test drives as you say tell you nothing .

    You need to take the car on the highways , in traffic , in town , as well as the mountains to get a feel for what a car can really do as well as its overall quality . I think you need at least 100 miles to judge a car .

    Most Cars today , like their brochures are designed for the immediate WOW factor .

    Problem is , like the Super Model who has all the WOW factor more often than not there’s nothing upstairs ( brains ) and zero substance for the long run ( yes that comment is from experience )

    Once the WOW is over …. well you’re stuck with a lemon . Make that a rotten lemon .

  20. pedro fernandez Says:

    Tj you’re forgetting our commie friends (not) the Chinese trying to buy EVERY Thing, next thing you know they’ll buy Disney World and rename it Mao World.

  21. tj Martin Says:


    Has anyone else noticed that Germany is now planning on closing ALL of their Nuclear Plants , while the US and the Obama Administration are considering building more ?

    To ahhh ……… charge all those E/V’s they’re trying to shove down our throats .

    @pedro – The way I see it , China is on the verge of Financial Implosion . They won’t need anyone to compete with in order to accomplish their self destruction . They’re already well on their way by themselves . Just give em time . They’ve already got enough rope on hand .

  22. HtG Says:

    Germany will still be using nuclear energy that they buy from France and Poland. Some new plants are already in the works in P. I think this piece in WSJ is free.


  23. DBCooper Says:

    Pedro, in true BYD fashion, China made a crappy replica already: http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/05/02/disneyland-in-china/

    On another note, why do European trucks look so un-aerodynamic? You’d think that with gas prices so high down there, you’d do everything possible to maximize gas efficiency.

  24. pedro fernandez Says:

    Thanks Mr Cooper, why buy Disney when they can just copy it? the top photo that appears to be snow white looks like The Korean dictator Kim Jon Il in drag LOL!! Good observation on the EU trucks from the front they look like bus-based Rv’s

  25. pedro fernandez Says:

    Tj when the Chinese market becomes over-saturated with cars, they will have to consolidate all those OEM’s and turn West to peddle their stuff here, underpricing everyone. And if their products are half-way decent, they will succeed.

  26. HtG Says:

    let’s see if India wants to import from their ‘good buddies’ in the Middle Kingdom.(sarcasm on)

  27. shan Says:

    Though I’m impressed with how far Kia/Hyundai have progressed, I’m still skeptical. I have had a few friends who bought various models and had major mechanical issues with them. One friend bought a new 2009 Sonata and was left stranded on the interstate due to a bad crankshaft. Another friend had a Kia Optima and the valve train went belly up. As far as the Chinese automakers are concerned, I have no faith in anything they make or promise. They are years behind the Korean automakers.

  28. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    So Germany is about to become another California , not producing any energy of their own , but rather purchasing it from in Germany’s case , another Country . France .

    Like CA I’m betting that’ll work out real well . Especially in light of the fact that Germany and France , deep down , hate each others guts ! Making our North / South ongoing antagonism look like a Disney Movie .

  29. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    What China needs to be concerned about is the growing unrest amongst the Millions of extremely poor watching the very few get filthy sinking rich while they grow ever poorer .

    Guaranteed there’s another Cultural Revolution in the making China way . And this one will most likely get real ugly once it takes root .

  30. HtG Says:

    I thought the social contract in China was rising wealth for the masses in return for political control for the mandarins. If I’m in the Party, foreign manufacturers better be making Chinese industry stronger, and giving my little prince a nice job in the bargain.

  31. len simpson Says:

    If I were king, all new car testing would be
    performed by a board of retired old wrenches who
    had spent their lifetime in general auto repair,
    and would need only expenses because there is nothing in this world they would rather do.

  32. pedro fernandez Says:

    China has the West to thank for their economic rise to power, the morons who thought it was a good idea to turn our backs to the one thing that made us an economic powerhouse, our industries and our ability to take raw material and turn it into products that the whole world wanted to buy simply because there was non better.

  33. SalvadorG. Says:

    OK :)

    1. Maybe (as someone else put it) is the internets, but you seem to write with a grudge.

    2. Last time I check, neither you nor I; owned a car company. So! Whatever future VW (and its debt) holds, that’s for VW and the Germans to worry about.

    3. VW RESPECT – Meant that more as a Joke, remember VW ownes like nine other car companies and the news was about another VW take over.
    TAKE A CHILL PILL. (and why not respect, they’ve earned it)

    4. Well yes, it’s obviously Greed, LOL; not my business.

  34. cwolf Says:

    Boy, you guys are crazy today! I like it.

    John Mc was wise to end the Kia review at the interior because he would look rather foolish driving that POS with the camera mic. picking up every flaw. Sure hope the money is good,John,to keep idolizing this brand.

    Sit back and watch the Big3 show as they position themselves for the contract talks. Many of you were quick to clearify the plant closings;the only viable plant makes the Ranger and whatever happens will come out in the wash. The sub-wage VW plant is the real kick-in-the -pan that has any teeth! As of now,I still think UAW gains will be pretty much a flat line. Second tier wages may go a bit higher and a few bucks for prior sacrifices,plus profit sharing to some degree. If too much is given to the Big3,the UAW suppliers will surely let them know. And the game commences! When the transplants become targeted,then watch the sparks fly! This should really fire up DeLorenzo and his union bashing.

  35. tj Martin Says:

    @ SalvadorG

    1)No grudge . Just disgust at what the Automotive World is evolving into .

    2) When your neighbors lose their jobs because of Marchionne’s madness with Chrysler and Winterkorn’s plans for World Domination , it’ll be yours and my business whether either of us wants it to be or not

    3) Missed the joke , but thats the weakness of online communications . As far as respecting it though , thats kind of hard to do when your German friends are getting financially raked across the coals by VW’s antics

    4) One again , it all becomes our business , like it or not . Corporations of this size ( FIAT and VW ) do nothing that doesn’t have either a direct or indirect effect on you and I .

  36. tj Martin Says:


    OUCH ! ( # 34 )

    Spot on but …. OUCH !

  37. tj Martin Says:

    Hi there !

    BobLutzaiSmoke here .

    Just wanted to remind you all Bob Lutz’s new book ” Car Guys vs Bean Counters ” will be on the shelves June 9th .

    Don’t be shy . Just buy it . I’ll bet within two weeks of anyone here reading it , they’ll be sounding at least as Cynical as I appear to be when it comes to the Auto Industry . Even SalvadorG ! :o

    ( I’m really gonna hate myself when this is finally over . Schilling for Bob with zero compensation )

    @ John !

    Get Bob on the show for a pre-release interview !!!!

  38. tj Martin Says:


    Re; #32

    Read up on some Roman Empire History . It’ll look awfully familiar as one of the main things that brought them down was when they shifted from Producer/Consumer to strictly Consumer . Seems like History is about to repeat itself if someone doesn’t get a clue and start turning things around .

  39. cwolf Says:

    tj: Happy that your testing the many vehicles you’re interested in. In a way, I’m glad the GLK is tops on your list. From my prespective, if you have the cash to treat yourself to something special or different from your norm, the GLK is the least often seen on the road, yet is quick to capture ones attention. As far as reliability is concerned,I ask, how much worse or better can this car be from the other you have chosen to review? Pretty close,huh?
    You seem not to like the new Edge;nor am I that excited, but my wife loves hers. The blind spots,fuel econo. and the hard seats turn me off. I’ve always admired the Suberu from afar,so tell me what you think after your exploration.

  40. tj Martin Says:

    Housing prices drop 33 1/3 % since 2006

    And thats before the next 2.5 Million homes hit Bankruptcy sales . Yes thats coming . By September .

    Didn’t somebody recently mention we were in an Economic Recovery ? Hmmmn .

    Wanna bet this has a dramatic affect on Car Sales ?

  41. tj Martin Says:


    With the GLK its gotten to the point of Mrs TJ and I ( she drove one this weekend ) asking the question ;

    Would we rather fix a car that we both love from time to time or would we rather have a more reliable car neither of us likes as much ?

    We’re leaning hard towards fixing the car we both love . The GLK . Have to say our backs loved it as much as we do .

    I’ll check into the Subie just to cover the bases , but I’m thinking its the GLK . Nothing else has felt and driven , for what we want at this point in our lives , nearly as well .

    Some mighty fine cars out there mind you . They just don’t do the trick for us is all .

  42. tj Martin Says:


    re; Ford Edge / Lincoln MKS

    The saddest thing about this twosome to me is that they both come this …. close to being right ! This …. close !

    Had Ford taken an extra minute . thought twice about that MyDrive debacle , spent a $ or two more and just pushed it a little bit forward they’d both be brilliant cars . But no .

    Sigh !

  43. pedro fernandez Says:

    Tj # 38 I just don’t see how this could happen, it would take a mammoth effort from both govt and private entities and I just don’t hear anyone talk of this, as if this is not the main reason for our economic woes. Besides are American willing to give up their $10 toasters and $120 DVD players from Wal-mart?

  44. pedro fernandez Says:

    TJ despite CR not recommending the Mini because of its reliability, you went for it and I’m sure not regretting it, so the GLK is a no-brainer.

  45. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    Actually CR gives the MINI Cooper ( not the S ) good ratings and recommends it . Which played a small role in my not buying an S . that and I really thought the S was a bit too rough feeling in town .

    But you’re right in saying the GLK has become pretty much a No Brainer .

    Honestly we’re just waiting for the right CPO GLK to come up or the dealer toss us a fantastic deal on a new one . I’ll bet CPO though .

    As to # 43 I agree whole heartedly . The UK is ahead of us in the race to become Consumer Only and the Piper is already demanding his payment . And they’re not even to the end of the process .

  46. cwolf Says:

    tj: MyDrive was in the cars I recently test drove and it did’nt botter me a bit. Of course I wasted little of my time playing around because I have little need of it. The extra cost would be the killer for me. But I am not a normal driver and have little need for this type of “bells and whistles.” Unfortunately this type of stuff can’t be avoided today. After all your work, I’m sure you and the Mrs. will make the right choice for you!

  47. tj Martin Says:


    RE; #43

    The one scenario I could see forcing the US back into being a producer would be a World Wide Economic Collapse .

    Which …. isn’t all that far fetched when you think about it .

    Question is .. if the poop did hit the fan that hard , do most Americans ( especially the Dyslexic Hummingbird generation ) still have the wherewithall to pick themselves up and get to it .

    I’m not sure . I’d hope so , but I’m not sure .

  48. SalvadorG. Says:

    LOL (That’s Laughing Out Loud)

    What the car industry has become.. !!!
    World domination!!
    Roman history!!!

    I’ll tell you what, if any of this causes the world to ACtually Stop. .. I’ll be worry and agree with you.
    – Other than that.

    Always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the bright side of life

    Some things in life are bad, they can really make you mad
    Other things just make you swear and curse
    When you’re chewing on life’s gristle, don’t grumble give a whistle
    This will help things turn out for the best

    Always look on the bright side of life
    Always look on the right side of life

    If life seems jolly rotten, there’s something you’ve forgotten
    And that’s to laugh and smile and dance and sing
    When you’re feeling in the dumps, don’t be silly, chumps
    Just purse your lips and whistle, that’s the thing

    So, always look on the bright side of death
    Just before you draw your terminal breath

    Life’s a counterfeit and when you look at it
    Life’s a laugh and death’s the joke, it’s true
    You see, it’s all a show, keep them laughing as you go
    Just remember the last laugh is on you

    Always look on the bright side of life
    And always look on the right side of life
    Always look on the bright side of life
    And always look on the right side of life

  49. pedro fernandez Says:

    Tj sorry for the CR error, I don’t really read it anymore but remember years ago they were not too fond of the Mini mostly because of the reliability issue. BTW did you see the article on the ultra luxurious Mini going for $67,000? I don’t think I would spend that kind of money on a Mini, no matter how much luxury they crammed into it.

  50. HtG Says:

    tj. I have two cents to spare.

    Drive the Imprezza hatchback. Surprising handling. Not so hot mileage. But then if in Colorado….

    On fixing. I have a Civic which I have no emotional attachment to, and a Miata that has my number. Guess which one I don’t mind paying to maintain and fix?

  51. cwolf Says:

    @Salvador: Cute poem, but you missed the point! US manufacturers have been relocating all of our technology to other countries for years for the sake of the dollar and now they are scratching their heads asking why this same technology is used against us-duh! We still have’nt learned our lesson in China because,as a pre-requisit,have to puke -up more secrets just to do buisiness there;bull-crap! Does 12,000 units sold to Japan,a drastic increase in exports,sound like a fair trade agreement to you? How about all those cars made in Mexico,where workers have a gov’t union who says it’s OK to make $25/day! I’m sure this pleases the stock-holders,but does nothing to encourage to relinquish the vast number of dollars in their coffers to help America(US) grow. Hell,Sal,You either need a slap to wise you up or are just going through PMS!

  52. HtG Says:

    Does anybody want to hear what Henry Kissinger has to say ‘On China.?’


  53. cwolf Says:

    Just read a part of DeLorenzo’s rant. This guy is now lauds the Audi brand and,yet, makes note of the many service visits by the buyer; as if they should be surprised! Talk about double talk! I’m sure Peter is well informed and followed by many,but,much too influenced by those around him.

  54. XA351GT Says:

    DB @#23The Euro big rigs are Cab overs so the drivers can see all those little turd cars that clog the roads in front of them. Plus with small roads compared to here it probably is easier to drive them there. Driving a conventional tractor there would more than likely be like scraping gum off your shoe with those small cars and maniac scooter pilots.

  55. XA351GT Says:

    Salvador G , the Mustang may have a solid axle but it still is killing the Camaro and Chally in performance comparisons . So how bad is it? With a well sorted rear suspension it does pretty well for itself and doesn’t cost a fortune.

  56. SalvadorG. Says:

    nope, I didn’t miss anything but, I’m not going to be mad all the time about it Or! when someone write something I don’t like or disagree with.

    – I let it GO -

    I’m like everyone else, I don’t like these free trade agreements, business with Communist China, Huge Monopolies whether is from a car company buying every other or G.E. or Rupert Murdoch or the Banks still screwing with us.
    BUT.. I’m not going to let it get to me EVERY Single Day.

  57. cwolf Says:

    Sal, I think I understand! I, too, prefer to be optomistic. No attack to your character. OK?

  58. SalvadorG. Says:

    XA351GT Says:
    Salvador G , the Mustang may have a solid axle but it still is killing the Camaro and Chally in performance comparisons . So how bad is it? With a well sorted rear suspension it does pretty well for itself and doesn’t cost a fortune.

    - XA,
    The Camaro is outselling the Mustang, let just leave it there.

    No problemo.