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Episode 709 – Conservative Camry, GM’s “Hot” New Paint Process, Mazda Shoots to the Sky

August 24th, 2011 at 12:00pm

Runtime: 7:43

Toyota takes a major risk by sticking with “safe” styling on the new Camry. GM has a new painting process that reduces emissions using fire. Mazda’s Skyactiv-G engine improves fuel economy with an incredibly high compression ratio. How’d they do it? All that and more, plus John answers your comments and questions in another edition of “You Said It!”

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This is Autoline Daily for August 24, 2011. Here’s the latest.

CONSERVATIVE CAMRY
Toyota officially launched its redesign of the Camry yesterday. The car is better than the one it replaces by every single measure, except one. More on that in a minute. Depending on the model, Toyota reduced the prices anywhere from $200 to $2,000, except for the base model, which is nearly $2,000 more than before. The standard four-cylinder engine delivers slightly more power and fuel economy, the V-6 also gets slightly better fuel economy, while the hybrid version gets a 30 percent jump to 43 MPG in city driving. That’s 5.4 l/100 km. Even though this is a carry-over platform, Toyota managed to reduce the weight slightly and improve the interior packaging for more room. I got a chance for a brief test drive, and the Camry is impressively smooth, quiet, and roomy—the very characteristics that have made it one of the best selling cars in the world for years. But to my eye the styling is too conservative, especially when you look at the side profile. Most people will not realize this is a new car, and that will make it harder for Toyota to attract new buyers. This is a car that will look especially dated at the end of its design cycle four years from now. By trying to play it safe with the styling, Toyota has actually taken a very big risk.

GM’S NEW PAINT PROCESS
GM has come up with a more environmentally friendly way to paint plastic parts. Called a flame-surfacing process, it’s good for the environment and the bottom line. It eliminates the need for primer, which saves time by cutting a step out of the painting process, plus it dramatically reduces the use of solvents, cutting emissions. Paint shops are the number one source of noxious fumes at automotive plants. Like its name suggests, the flame-surfacing process treats plastic pieces with a robotically controlled torch. This prepares the surface of the parts for painting without requiring primer. Right now this technology is being used on the Chevy Cruze, Sonic and Volt. GM estimates that using flame surfacing on the Cruze can reduce air pollutants from 810 tons per year to just 80! The company also estimates it can reduce paint-related waste from 25 tons annually to almost zero.

MAZDA SHOOTS TO THE SKY (subscription required)
Downsizing, forced-induction and direct injection are some of the hottest automotive fads right now. But Mazda thinks there’s more than one way to skin the fuel economy cat. The company’s new Skyactiv-G gasoline engine features an incredibly high 13:1 compression ratio. That’s practically diesel territory! A high CR is good for efficiency and power output, but bad for other things, like knocking. Engineers managed to deliver this in a mass-market engine that does not run on high-octane fuel with a four-into-two-into-one exhaust manifold. This free-flowing design reduces backpressure, keeping hot gasses from being forced back into the combustion chambers. It also has special piston cavities and a shorter overall combustion cycle. All told, the 2.0-liter version of this engine should deliver 155 horsepower with 148 pound-feet of torque, plus around 40 miles per gallon on the highway. Look for the Skyactiv-G to debut on the 2012 Mazda3.

Coming up next, it’s time for You Said It!

And now it’s time for some of your feedback.

Chuck Grenci sure is puzzled over why Ford would team up with Toyota to make hybrid systems for trucks.

“Why would Ford share their superior lead in full-size trucks? I wouldn’t think Ford would want to give the Tundra any ‘traction’ in the last bastion of strength still held by the U.S. automakers.”

Chuck, this is all about splitting the cost of developing a hybrid system. There’s plenty of reason to suspect these things will not sell very well, so why not split the cost. They’re not going to share truck platforms or anything like that, just the hybrid system.

Salvador G. didn’t like everyone criticizing the Cadillac Ciel concept car.

“What’s wrong with you people? That is a wonderful design, very classy looking car, very nice.
And obviously, it is Not going to be built.”

Actually, Salvador, they tell me that concept is going to be very close to the flagship sedan that Cadillac is working on which will be out in about three years.

john787 has a question about the name of the Caddy.

“I thought the French word Ciel meant heaven, not sky. Correct me if I’m wrong.”
John787, depending on the context of how its used, ciel can mean either sky or heaven.

602goliath saw that demonstration of the worker with the leaf blower showing how quiet the interior of the new Buick Verano is, but he has a good observation.

“I’m really liking how sound proof that Buick is. Do you know if you can still hear emergency sirens from the cabin of the car?”

Nope, 602goliath, it would be really hard to hear any sirens. Especially if you have the radio on. You raise a really good point. Automakers need to get a warning system inside their cars that tell you where and when an emergency vehicle is barreling down the street.

HtG learned that Bob Hall, brother of Jim Hall, who made appearances last week on Autoline Daily, Autoline After Hours, and RoundAbout, played a big role in the design of the original Mazda Miata.

He writes, “Picture this Bob and Jim. Today my favorite on-ramp was repaved. You enter downhill, 90 degree right in 2nd gear, exit for a straight and go into 3rd, flat out till the banked left, short straight leading into negative camber 40 degree right, trail the throttle and get back on it so you enter traffic at 70+mph. If you did all this in my 96 Montego Blue Miata with the tires squealing (and I mean it), you just want to shake Bob Hall’s hand and never let go. Bob, you will live forever, even if it’s only as spare parts.”

Join us tomorrow night for Autoline After Hours, when our guest will be Mark Trostle, the new head of design at Roush.

And that’s today’s report, thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

76 Comments to “Episode 709 – Conservative Camry, GM’s “Hot” New Paint Process, Mazda Shoots to the Sky”

  1. Tony Gray Says:

    So, Chris Bangle now works the paint line at Lordstown coating Cruzes? (Reference the flame surfacing)…

  2. tj Martin Says:

    Ciel = Sky , Heaven or Open , Out of Doors , in Mid Air etc

    Everybody seems to miss out on the ‘Open’ definition , which I’ll bet is what the pretentious marketing focus group were thinking of when they stuck the this RR pastiche with the moniker . Especially since there isn’t any Sky in the thing and it sure as heck isn’t Heaven by anyones standards .

    ALD , you’re in dire need of a Linguistic Consultant . And no the Mrs aint volunteering

    :o

    The French . Their language is as convoluted as their politics . But I loves em anyway .

  3. pedro fernandez Says:

    Disagree with the Camry styling critique, while it should remain fresh for a few years, the Sonata will instead grow stale in no time.

  4. RS Says:

    Aaah – the French and their language. Do you know of any other language group that has a “language police” committee to make sure their mother tongue is kept “pure?” They can export words like “croissants” but don’t use “fax” because it is really a “télécopieur.”

  5. pedro fernandez Says:

    Ciel in Spanish is cielo and it also can mean either heaven or sky, when you die, you don’t go to the sky and when you fly you don’t go to heaven, at least you hope not to.

  6. RS Says:

    @ pedro

    Agreed, the Sonata is going to look dated – eventually. But in the meantime, Hyundai is going to clean up in the marketplace. It will be very difficult to bring buyers back to Toyota and Honda once they have moved away. Just look at the problems the Detroit 3 are having. Good product is not enough. Super competitive price, equipment, economy, reliability – everyone is expected to have all that. So…what have you done for me lately? Once buyers have made the move to Hyundai/Kia, there is the same product loyalty that recent Honda owners have exhibited – even though Honda seems to have lost its way.

  7. MJB Says:

    You know John, I feel like the biggest sucker on this forum right now. Up until today’s “You Said It” piece, I actually thought that Jim Hall and Bob Hall were the same person.

    I just KNEW that Jim and his crazy self was just using the magic of green-screening and pre-recorded television to super-impose himself in double-exposure and make it look as if he was his own “evil twin”. I just KNEW he was pulling our leg with another of his shenanigans!

    Heck, even after this “You Said It” I still didn’t buy it that Jim really did have a twin. So I went and Googled them both and low-and-behold…There really ARE two of them!

    Dohhh!

    http://newsliteimgs.s3.amazonaws.com/100325_simpsons.jpg

  8. pedro fernandez Says:

    It has taken a long time and it will take even longer to convince lots of folks that the Koreans are as good as the Japanese brands, not just the public, but techs and informed folks that make a living in the auto repair field, I get it all the time, from tire shops to transmission to general repair shops, they still say the Koreans have some catching up to do, specially in the long term reliability and durability dept. # 7 don’t feel bad, I thought the same, I even said, wow!!! I cant believe they spend that money on special effects!

  9. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Even though I was rebuked by John, re Ford/Toyota sharing hybrid research (on the feedback portion of today’s show; and maybe correctly), I still think Ford needs to be careful; Toyota seems always to be the bigger winner when it teams up with others (I’m thinking GM/Toyota joint venture in California).

    The new Camry, not exciting but better than the previous one; sure bet if transportation is your primary reason to buy a vehicle. (but the competition is right there, now; not getting closer, as it was in the past)

  10. pedro fernandez Says:

    #6 the problem as I see it is that ALL their cars have been made to look the same, just on a smaller scale. The new Accent 4 door looks like the Sonata as a baby, the Elantra the teen and the Sonata the adult.

  11. pedro fernandez Says:

    Chuck the reason the Corolla outsold the Prizm was mostly price, When folks went to the Chevy dealer they got the Cavalier instead because the Prizm was almost as expensive as the old Malibu Classic. Which was fine for GM, cause I believed they made more profit with the Cavalier.

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Pedro, I’m with you. The new Camry will kick butt. It sounds like it will be best-in-class, and people who buy these cars aren’t after styling. The want quiet, comfortable, reliable, fuel efficient “transportation appliances,” and from what I’ve read so far, it looks like the new Camry will be the best one out there.

  13. MW Says:

    So, Cadillac is really going to build a sedan similar to the Ciel – you know, a sedan with a big grille stuck on the front end and something that looks like tail fins on the backend. So what’s new about that on a Caddillac? Those design features date back to the 1950s.

  14. pedro fernandez Says:

    #12 Kit, I have actually heard from some Camry owners that the primary reason they got the Camry over the Accord was a quieter, smoother driving experience at a lower price. Honda has to get their cars to be quieter, even the Cruze is more hush inside than the more expensive Accord.

  15. SalvadorG. Says:

    - Thank you JohnMc. for the news,
    - the Cadillac Ciel is a beautiful car
    - and I only hope the real thing comes 99.9 percent close to the concept (if not better).

    - And on a side note.
    - Is it just me or the new Camry’s front design looks awfully a lot like a Subaru?
    - specially the Impreza’s front.
    - I mean, seriously; except for the Toyota emblem that does look like a Subaru’s front design.

  16. tj Martin Says:

    Camry Styling ;

    Its a Toyota . It works . All the time ( unlike a lot of its Korean pretenders out there ) Its a conservative car , built for folks with conservative tastes , with I might add the money to afford one . Unlike its Korean competitors .

    And it’ll sell like hot cakes at a County Fair

    Whereas the Ciel if GM is foolish enough to make it , will like its VOLT cousin , fly off the showroom floor for about six months till the thrill wears off . Which will be quickly

    And then like the Allante before it , the Ciel will sit rusting on the showroom floors till the dealers Blue Light em to get them off the lot .

    QUOTE of the DAY

    Read this on another site from someone reacting to the CR review of the Honda Civic ;

    ” Yeah I’ll bet all the current as well as soon to be Civic owners out there are taking Consumer Reports review of the new Civic about as seriously as they’re taking the CR reviews of the iPhone . e.g Not Recommended by Consumer Report ”

    Couldn’t agree more . Certainly both Honda and Toyota have taken a bit of a beating lately , but champs that they are they’ll come out of the corner swinging and kicking butt once again

    And to be honest Consumer Report reviews outside the auto industry has never impressed me , and lately I’m finding their Auto reviews , customer services etc to be less than reliable or accurate . Not to mention the constant email harassment that I can’t seem to unsubscribe to .

    QUESTION ( to all)

    Am I the only one here lately thats noticed ADL having a bit of a bias AGAINST Toyota and Honda ?

    They’ve completely ignored Honda’s recent statements as to the ” New ” new Civic they’re releasing next year , as well as the reasons for its delay and why we’re dealing with the current less than perfect new Civic for the moment

    Not to mention cuddling up to GM with the Ciel while condemning the #1 best selling car , the Camry’s , new updating .

    Bit odd if you ask me .

    FYI ( for T.Bejima :o ) I personally don’t want a Camry , But I do understand why many do .

  17. tj Martin Says:

    @ SalvadorG

    Name one single model of Subaru , past or present that even vaguely resembles the new updated Camry .

    If anything the grill looks a little like the SAAB ( story ) 9-5′s grill

    Barely , Vaguely .

    Whereas the Ciel ? Try this on your laptop assuming you’re proficient with Photoshop

    First lay down a Rolls Royce Phantom Drop Head

    Then… lay over the fiddly bits ( headlights tail lights Stealth lines and grill ) from any of the current Cadillacs , especially the CTS

    Then voila ! You’ve got yourself a Cadillac Ciel ( pronounced C-L )

    Yeah thats original all right . The Caddy Ciel designers must of been apprenticing with Hyundai/KIA of late e.g. Carbon Copy rip offs

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Maybe they’ll sell Camry wagons again sometime, when gas gets expensive. Too bad they didn’t make a wagon instead of that Venza, but they couldn’t resist the temptation to do a semi-SUV, with its compromised gas mileage and handling.

  19. Lex Says:

    The New Camry from the side looks like a Super Sized Corolla. Toyota is heading down the same disapointing road just like Honda!

    I agree with Salvador G. that the New Camry’s front design sure looks like a Subaru look.

    The Cadillac Ciel looks like a cross between the Batmobile and the Black Beauty.
    It is styled for the Joker, Ha Ha Ha!

    Will the local Body Shop be able to repair and repaint these plastic parts that have been treated with this new GM Painting Process?

  20. MJB Says:

    But tj, I really liked that Allante.

    No, seriously. I’ve always liked that car.

  21. pedro fernandez Says:

    The current Camry was supposedly growing “stale” yet continued being the #1 seller in its class, the new WILL attract more buyers. My Toyota insider tells me his manager compared the new Camry V6 with the first gen LS in the smoothness and quiet dept.

  22. shan Says:

    I got to see the unveiling of the new 2012 Toyota Camry in person, because I work there…lol. It’s a home-run. Once people sit inside, test drive and kick the tires, they will be impressed. If you only knew the effort going into building this new model, you would be amazed.

    The Sonata still has a way to go as far as ride and handling quality.

  23. SalvadorG. Says:

    - Shut Up tj,
    - isn’t there a world conspiracy to keep you busy?

    - and I didn’t say ‘exactly like a Subaru
    - and I did not meant the entire car
    - and I know I probably should have said, the front grill only
    - and where that heck you figure SAAB is a wonder
    - but the new Camry did remind me of the Subaru
    - And I am willing to accept I was wrong, is not the end of the world.

    - or maybe it’s a conspiracy.

  24. jesse Says:

    Are they serious with that CAMRY RE DO??Does anybody have a PULSE at TOYOTA?? Can you say STILL BORRRRRRRRRRRING?!!!

  25. pedro fernandez Says:

    #22 specially when you’re building off the same platform, not easy. I was surprised to learn there have only been 3 all-new platforms for the Camry/ ES since its inception in 1983. BTW there is a likeness to the Legacy front end, is it just coincidence or the fact that Subie and Yota are now partners?

  26. pedro fernandez Says:

    how does Toyota relieve boredom? with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ coming in.

  27. Aliisdad Says:

    I think the new Camry is the right way to go for this kind of car…Sometimes, “wow” styled cars don’t age very well and really show their age as time passes…Not very exciting, maybe, but I’ll bet it will be a good car that will still look good a few years from now, too…
    As far as GM’s new paint process…Hope it works better than the last “new paint process” a few years ago when almost new cars began “shedding” their paint…I still see old trucks and cars from that era with peeling paint…AND, I remember that the car makers refused to fix it in most cases!!

  28. Buzzerd Says:

    Say John therre is already a warning device in most cars that alerts you of emergency vehicles, it’s called a review mirror, also known as a make-up mirror by some.
    Camry=boooooorrrrrinnnnnng

  29. vrmchris Says:

    hello to all.

    2012 toyota camry. keep in mind toyota is an ultra conservative company still. you do not mess with your biggest profit maker by going radical. see volkswagen golf from mark 1 to mark 6. still, i believe they could have gone further yet retained familiarity to reassure those who are loyal to the camry.

    gm’s paint process for plastic parts. sounds quite logical. heat the plastic parts so that the primer is the heated surface. which would allow the paint to be embedded in the part itself.

    mazda skyactiv g. a detuned race motor perhaps? get all of the benefits of a smaller di turbo engine without the expense that goes with it. sounds good to me.

    ford and toyota joint venture in hybrid system. in this case for rwd vehicles, why not split the cost of the system? especially when the volumes may be limited. and also, rare earths will be available from the usa and australia within a few years.

    cadillac ciel concept car. the first thing i thought of is chris craft boats. some of the exteriors details can be ignored as this is an exercise. rather the idea is to be examined. and it is a good one. when the german luxury makers are making more than 1 million units per annum, cadillac has a chance to sell american luxury and exclusivity. and have 3 years to refine the design for their flagship sedan.

    buick verano. a sound idea (pun intended). small and quiet. quiet is a part of the luxury definition. good for a daily driver.

    bob hall. yes, it has been know for many years that he was the product planner at mazda for the original miata. man and horse as one.

    ladies and gentlemen, have a great day, afternoon, or evening.

    regards,
    vrmchris

  30. tj Martin Says:

    SalvadorG

    Why don’t you try READING my post before sticking your foot square into your mouth for the umpteenth time SG ?

    I said , and I quote ” ….. vaguely resembles …… ” not exactly oh addled one .

    Seriously SalvadorG , would you like a bit of Ketchup , Mustard or perhaps a bottle of Brown Sauce to help that foot go down a little easier ? Things gotta be tasting awfully stale of late .

    Oh and as to the SAAB and the Ciel/ RR similarities ? Well I guess like READING , careful and critical observations aren’t in your Skill Set either .

    Thats OK though SG . We’ll find something you’re good at . Someday . Somewhere .

    Maybe not :(

  31. tj Martin Says:

    @vrmchris

    May I say that without the proper capitals , grammar inclusions , punctuation , paragraphs as well as coherent sentence structure the overly polite Routine seems a bit …… OK an awfully lot out of place .

    Your first few posts , whether I agreed or disagreed were at the very least very readable . Whereas of late they’re becoming a bit jumbled , incoherent , inconsistent and stilted

    Just an observation .

  32. tj Martin Says:

    @ pedro

    So I’d assume all those here that are critiquing the Camry probably also think each and every Porsche 911 variants are boring as well

    I guess the concept of Evolution must of escaped their understanding ……. which may or may not say something about their status in the Evolutionary chain

    Ohhhh ….. thats a cruel one . But what the heck ! Its mid week and a bit of cruelty might just be in order .

  33. tj Martin Says:

    @ MJB

    #20

    Thats OK . We all have our moments .

    I’ve got a real thing for the Alfa Romeo TZ and RZ myself

    We’ve all got our guilty pleasures when it comes to design

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    To some of you, regarding the new GM painting process, if you had read the the article, it’s for PLASTIC PARTS, not steel car bodies. It makes pretty good sense to me.

  35. HtG Says:

    license plate sighting of the day. I-80 westbound, a Saab convertible with North Carolina vanity plates read as such; SAAB$TRY.

    My worthless 2 cents on Camry…yet another Toyota model I will take pains not to drive behind.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    re. #29,
    I thought the post made a very good case that proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization is totally unnecessary for writing to be easily understood. I could tell exactly what vrmchris was intending to convey in his/her post.

  37. HtG Says:

    Sur le sujet du Ciel. Je voudrais vous montrer cette voiture, Le Cadillac Eldorado de 1976.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://vintage-cadillacs.com/photos/76eldorado/IMG_0574.jpg&imgrefurl=http://vintage-cadillacs.com/1976eldorado.html&h=1000&w=1500&sz=436&tbnid=buIsmcEkP9u9hM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dvintage%2Bcadillacs%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=vintage+cadillacs&docid=f6dkhQ0FywTcIM&sa=X&ei=u1pVTs22OYXEgAflns09&ved=0CDMQ9QEwAg&dur=4440

    En garde, tayjay!

  38. SalvadorG. Says:

    tj Martin Says:

    @ SalvadorG

    Name one single model of Subaru , past or present that even vaguely resembles the new updated Camry .

    If anything the grill looks a little like the SAAB ( story ) 9-5’s grill

    Barely , Vaguely .

    ____________________

    - I assume that was meant as a question
    - I know it doesn’t have a question mark (?)
    - but it seems clearly like a question
    - and it does mention SAAB/Camry comparison
    - or IF it wasn’t, you need to learn Your own English language

    - or at least you could have a look at the new Subaru Impreza front grill
    - and see what I mean, before start trying to impose your view on others.

  39. vrmchris Says:

    hello to all.

    #31. you are who you are and i am who i am. thank you very much.

    #36. thank you for letting me know that you could easily understand what i was trying to convey.

    regards,
    vrmchris

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    re. #16, Consumer Reports,
    While CR is not an end-all for buying decisions, there is a lot of good information there. You just need to read the whole article to find out what matters to you. For example, they don’t recommend the i-phone because of signal loss problems other phones don’t have. If you are normally in a strong signal area with the carrier and like i-phones, buy one. If you tend to be in weak signal areas, you’d be better off with something else.

    They don’t recommend the new Civic because it is noisy, has long stopping distances, etce. compared to some of the competition. If you don’t care about those things, and just like Honda, you will be happy with a Civic. Even though CR isn’t perfect, they have a lot of good information, especially a second set of gas mileage numbers to use, along with EPA numbers when comparing cars.

  41. pedro fernandez Says:

    Ah yes that 76 Eldorado, had the pleasure to drive one from Hudson County, NJ to Atlantic City for a delivery, it was winter, however and kept the top up. Plushness to the max.

  42. tj Martin Says:

    @ SalvadorG

    Oh dear . Oh my . Twice in one day ! Goodness that foot has got to be getting worn down to the bone . And still no ketchup , mustard or brown sauce to make it a bit more ….. palatable .

    READ the post there SG . Once again READ IT . Don’t skim over it like so many like yourself are want to do . READ it !

    It was not a question . It was in fact a REQUEST ! Directed at you ( guess you’ve also got a subtlety deficiency going on ) And the request that you’ve yet to answer was ;

    Name one Subaru past or present that even VAGUELY ( that clear enough for you ) resembles the new Camry

    So chew on that a bit .

    Also when I I today DENIED that I made the comparison between the SAAB 9-5 and the new Camry ?

    But in the mean time , do get some kind of condiment to go with that foot . Especially if you’re going to swallow it twice in less than 5 hours .

    As to the ” know your own English language ” comment . Perhaps its you needing an intensive ESL crash course .

    Ahh but maybe that’s your problem SG . Perhaps its you not being an English as a First Language speaker that things like subtlety , questions vs requests etc keep going over your head .

    But why bother . Just get that case of condiment before you make yourself ill

  43. tj Martin Says:

    @ Kit Gerhart

    Bad Grammar , incorrect punctuation , poor sentence structure are never acceptable anywhere

    A bobble here and there due to our inability to correct our posts is one thing

    But blatant laziness and lack of desire to communicate in a clear manner is inexcusable as well as being part in parcel , part of what is wrong with todays Society in general as well as specifically todays youth .

    Pure unadulterated laziness as well as a complete lack of respect for ones fellow man .

  44. tj Martin Says:

    #37

    Eeeeech !!!

    Now you’ve gone and given me indigestion !

    Hope that wasn’t an attempt to explain the Ciel . Cause its still more Rolls than ( urp ) Eldorado .

    Know what we call those things in my circles /

    CattleCraps

    :o

  45. tj Martin Says:

    #35

    Love it !

  46. GPL Says:

    re: the Eldo…

    Thanks for posting that, HtG. I posted previously that I thought the Ciel looked like the late 60′s/early 70′s DeVille, but the Eldorado was actually the image I had in my head.

  47. cwolf Says:

    hello everone.
    i have been very busy of late,both, at work and home,but i have read the daily comments. many times i wanted to respond,but someone already said what i wanted to say—so thanks a lot butt-heads! i like the ciel styling,in a way,kinda,almost. i also favor what toyota has attempted with the new camry by placing efforts in making it a better car to drive for the average person. how many times have i listened to you guys bitch that not enough effort was put into a car to make it a better over-all car. usually,all you get is cosmetic hyundai eye candy.now that camry took this route, your still bitch’en whats up! i applaude your efforts shan.too bad it’s for the japanese. vrmchris,you gotta be out of your freekin mind to write like this!
    thanks for attension,
    wolf

  48. GPL Says:

    tj,

    If you can take criticism as well as you can give it, you’re becoming the new Sybil/HS here – internet tough-guy, long strings of strongly opinionated commentary, always in conflict with someone, and an apparent belief that your opinion is indisputable.

    Okay, you have a distinguished CV. Hooray for you. Your experience may give you a different perspective on things than that of others here, but it doesn’t make it any more valuable or welcome, especially if, like Sybil, you make claims but aren’t willing to identify yourself or otherwise sustatiate that CV.

    I believe this began right around the time you got that GLK. Really, you claim to have fretted over the assumptions of ego that people might make from you driving a Benz, yet since then you seem to be making great effort to be “that guy”.

    I miss old tj. I would welcome him back any time.

    Just an observation.

  49. Donfromnaples Says:

    Volkswagen Passat = Major Competition for the Toyota Camry

  50. HtG Says:

    no no no. Everybody take two steps back. There’s a new sheriff in town. Let’s just sit down and start pouring before one of the beloved kanipshins himself.

  51. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I recently saw the ’76 Eldorado convertible on a list of “worst collector car investments.” The reason is that the car was billed as the “last ever American convertible,” or something similar. As a result, a lot of people bought them and never drove them. When there are a lot of a certain 35 year old car in existance with 0.1 original miles on the odometer, it really drives prices down.

  52. cwolf Says:

    This time Alliisdad took the wind out of my sails,….Geesh! I,too,question the new GM paint process due to past adhesion problems. The use of a flame would burn off contaminates,as well as open pores to promote adhesion. But,since a surface may be comprised of various thicknesses and curvatures,which may vary the surface temp.,I suspect the adhesiveness would vary as well. Then again, I only know enough to be dangerous. After all, I’m not a pro driver,never owned or had access to a bunch of slick cars,had a thought of driving a wonderful GLK,lived abroad,or had any driving pashion for music. By the way tj,my pal,you’re always short of a word,but noticed you being rather testy of late. Ms.tj clip your wings a little short? I have surmissed that she is truely the REAL boss in your family! Must say you scare me at times: I can’t invission you a Alfa Romeo fan. I have always been captivated with many of their styles!

  53. SalvadorG. Says:

    - tj,
    - You make me laugh.

    Name one Subaru past or present that even VAGUELY ( that clear enough for you ) resembles the new Camry

    - Where that heck does that come from?
    - When did I ever said the Subaru resembles the new Camry?
    - Can I not make a simple comment like…
    - The new Camry front grill LOOKS like a Subaru Impreza’s.
    - Notice I never wrote:
    - Looks EXACTLY like a Subaru Impreza’s
    - I can’t help it
    - When I first saw the video of the new Camry
    - I thought, that grill design reminds me of the Subaru Impreza.
    - Honestly, what’s the big deal?
    - As for your comment about putting my foot in my mouth.
    - don’t worry I’m not angry

    - sorry, I can’t take seriously a guy who believes in a world conspiracy.

  54. Tony Gray Says:

    The first think I thought of from that one shot of the Camry was Subaru as well. Nothing in particular, just a quick glance caused that to pop into my head.

  55. XA351GT Says:

    Wait that was the new camry? I thought it was Corolla on steroids. Toyota=bland as hell = selling tons of them to people who want/need a reliable toaster with wheels. Why is this surprising the camry has never been anything but conservatively styled and it sells like crazy so someone must like it. Me? nope ,but millions of others do. To each his own.

  56. XA351GT Says:

    This new Mazda engine,are we supposed to be excited by a engine that makes 150HP and gets 40MPG highway? Ford’s V6 Mustang make 300+ HP and gets 30MPG highway.The V8 makes 400+HP and gets 26 MPG. So why should this excite me again??

  57. Kit Gerhart Says:

    XA351GT,
    We are supposed to get “excited” about the 40mpg, not the 150hp. After all, in the cars where Mazda will use the engine, the 150hp will be enough to go at least 30mph faster than any legal speed in the U.S.

  58. XA351GT Says:

    Kit don’t alot of cars now get the magic 40 MPG without resorting to building a high compression bomb?? Seems that this tech should be alot better than 40. Still vcan’t understand how we should get the warm fuzzys about 40 MPG when there were cars in the mid 80s getting near or at 50 MPG on antique designs.

  59. Kit Gerhart Says:

    What cars in the 80′s got near 50mpg, except the VW diesels which, at the time, were very slow, stinky, and noisy. I had a number of 4 cylinder 80′s cars, and the best of them were in the mid-high 30′s at highway speed.

    I agree that this Mazda sounds like it isn’t doing anything special, relative to the best of the current engines.

  60. SlimJim Says:

    Yes, this Camry is better in every way. And, it definitely looks better. Maybe I’m missing something, but this seems like a very nice looking car with 3 distinct models. One for luxury, one for performance and one for fuel economy. I’m glad they kept it clean, it will continue to age well.

  61. tj Martin Says:

    @ SalvadorG

    #53

    Well son you really stuck your foot in it this time young man

    Maybe the rest here would like to clue you in on Ford and GM’s multiple attempts at IN THEIR OWN WORDS to create a world car

    Because sonny boy they’ve been making that claim since the eighties . Tried multiple times and still are . VW lately as well

    God knows you are a TOTALY CLUELESS Fool when it comes to the auto industry .

    By the by , purchased that condiment yet ?

    @GPL – Perhaps when someone like SG comes up with a legitimate critique I’ll stand down as i have several times before here when I was proven wrong

    And don’t blame the GLK . Blame the one or two idiots of late who seem to think it their duty to put me down when in fact they’re the one who’s clueless

    My only regret was the argy bargy Kit and i got into

  62. pedro fernandez Says:

    BTW those lofty 40 mpg numbers are barely duplicated by drivers unless they make an effort to do so, but most don’t. A/C use, going too fast, accelerating too fast, all cut deeply into those mpg numbers.

  63. Kit Gerhart Says:

    To get 40mpg at sready speed, you have to hold the speed down to probably 65mph with the cars having 40mpg highway ratings. I still don’t understand why no one does a car with Prius-like aerodynamics and a conventional power train. A car like that should get over 40mph at 75+ mph.

  64. tj Martin Says:

    MYTH of the CEO ;

    So lets see what the general public actually understands about the current role of the CEO with what APPLE’s stock does today after Steve Jobs announcing he’s stepping down .

    Because in truth , SJ hasn’t been involved at all over the last 8 months and in fact has had little to do with decision making for the last 5 years due to his ongoing and tragic illness . He’s been more Talking Head and Spokesman than CEO with his hand picked team making the majority of all important decisions on product etc. And the newly chosen CEO is and has been in charge most of that time as well

    But we’ll see what Joe Public believes . I’ll bet Myth .

    ——–

    Looks like M-B will be keeping my business no matter what gas prices do down the road with this coming over in AWD just in time .

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110825/FRANKFURT/110829922

    But ….. if prices stay stable it’ll be the GLK for me

    ————-

    Guess I’ll have to watch the Belgium F1 as Bruno Senna has taken over Heidfeld’s seat . Oh well … like I said it is Spa !

    ————-

    And ……. just to prove the point that I am not in any way either an H/S or Sybil personality as one so crass has accused me of being ………………………………………..

  65. HtG Says:

    tj, don’t kid about what happens when the fanboys get too far from their Reality Distortion Field. Not funny.

  66. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The B-Class will be interesting. I suppose we won’t get the good power train, the diesel/manual, and who knows what body styles. The B-Class is designed mainly to be a 5-door hatch/wagon, but we’ll probably get some kind of silly sedan, “designed for the U.S. market.” We shall see.

  67. pedro fernandez Says:

    Read the other day that Toyota won’t have a sedan version of the next Yaris, I was surprised by that, since they do sell quite a few of them to people that still want a small car but will just not get into a hatch. (don’t get that at all)

  68. pedro fernandez Says:

    They keep saying Americans don’t like hatchbacks, but I think things are slowly changing, thanks to Ford with the Fiesta and Focus, yet the Cruze outsells them both, perhaps it has to do with the 4 door sedan thing.

  69. Kit Gerhart Says:

    We’ll see how the hatch/sedan sales split out on Focus. Also, the upcoming Chevy Sonic will be sold as both hatch and sedan. I suspect the popularity of hatches in the U.S. will increase as more people replace their SUV’s with smaller cars, and see how much better hatches are than sedans for carrying “stuff.”

  70. pedro fernandez Says:

    Honestly I never saw much use for a tiny 4 door sedan, even the back seats are tiny with little trunk space and ZERO versatility if you need to carry anything bigger than a bread box. The only five door I ever had, the Chevette, came in very handy many times, even though it was crap, we kept the back seat down and used it as a 2 seater with extra cargo space in the back.

  71. GPL Says:

    tj, we can disagree civilly or we can rant, throw stones, name call, and declare our superiority. One approach allows us to have an open exchange of ideas and opinions. The other litters this page with unpleasantness.

    Whether or not anyones critique is legitimate, it isn’t necessary to respond with vitriol. It isn’t necessary that anyone agrees with our opinion. It isn’t necessary to “win”.

    We’ve disagreed in the past and had civil, interesting exchanges. We’ve also agreed, and that’s nice too. I’m just asking you try to tone it down some.

    You’re not HS or Sybil, but you seem to be the man of the moment. There are a lot of arguements around here lately, and the common denomenator seems more often than not to be you. Sorry if that’s difficult to hear, but I think it is true. You are just too quick to open fire on anyone that disagrees with you.

    You seem like an intelligent guy with some interesting experiences to share, and I’ve enjoyed your commentary up until recently (something I could never say of HS or Sybil), but lately you just seem to have a short fuse.

    That’s it. I’ve said my peace and will leave it at that. If you want to call me crass, fine. I’ll just agree to disagree.

  72. tj Martin Says:

    @ GPL

    Too little , too late , but thanks anyway . My minds made up ( subtle hint in my last post )

    But a little hint for the future ?

    Call someone over aggressive . Call them rude . Heck even call them an ____ if the moderators will let you get away with it .

    But NEVER on this site call anyone HyundaiSmoke or the Sybil Quintet .

    That is beyond an insult and completely uncalled for .

  73. GPL Says:

    tj, after a moment of contemplation, I have to agree. Any comparison to those two is over the line. For that I sincerely apologise. Consider this an olive branch.

  74. XA351GT Says:

    Kit,
    The 1st Gen CRX got 49 MPG the Geo Metro 3 cyl. was close to it as well. There are a few others that were mid 40s Hell the Ford Festiva was getting mid 40 MPG . All with old tech.

  75. Dwight Barnes Says:

    Is only me or is anyone else getting tired of tj’s condescending “bull spit”.
    We just got rid of someone who dominated this forum and now it seems we have another.

    -just pouring a little fuel on a smoldering fire !!

  76. Mitz Kaburaki Says:

    It is reported that the compression ratio of Skyactive-G, the gasoline engine, is 13 but I have been reading that it is 14 from many other souces in Japanese. Please clarify and if I am correct I guess Autoline daily should correct its report.