Episode 809 – January Sales Up, Honda Delivers 1st Fit EV, New Device Blocks Calls in Car

January 23rd, 2012 at 11:30am

Runtime: 7:17

Ward’s Auto is forecasting that car sales this month in the U.S. market will jump nearly 10 percent compared to a year ago, which translates to a SAAR of 13.9 million vehicles. Honda delivered its first Fit EV as part of its Electric Vehicle Demonstration Program. Scosche, a company that sells electronic accessories, just introduced a device that can block mobile phones while in the car. All that and more, plus find out why Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne says the Jeep Liberty is the most important product the company is investing in.

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This is Autoline Daily for January 23. And as we all get back in gear to start a new week, here’s what’s happening in the automotive industry.

Ward’s Auto is forecasting that car sales this month in the U.S. market will jump nearly 10 percent compared to a year ago. And that will result in a Seasonally Adjusted Annual Rate, or SAAR of 13.9 million vehicles. That’s still a low number by historical standards, but it’s the best rate since June of 2008, not counting Cash for Clunkers. Chrysler is expected to have a fantastic month. Ford, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai are expected to be up strong. The outlook is cloudy for Honda. But GM, which ran heavy retail incentives a year ago, is expected to see sales fall 8 percent.

In another sign things are turning around in Detroit, the auto show just posted its best attendance in years. Close to 771,000 people over nine days went to the show, the highest total in five years. And during press week, close to 5,200 members of the media from 61 counties came to Detroit. The Detroit News reports this year’s show had a $400 million impact to the Detroit area which was better than when the city hosted the Super Bowl a few years ago.

Honda delivered its first Fit EV to the city of Torrance, California as part of its Electric Vehicle Demonstration Program. Google and Stanford University are also participants and will provide Honda with real-world feedback of the Fit EV before it goes public. It launches this summer in California and Oregon and has a combined range of 76 miles.

Scosche is a company that sells all kinds of electronic accessories from iPhone cases, to power adapters and screen protectors. Their latest product is aimed at drivers who want to prevent themselves from talking on the phone in the car. cellCONTROL is a little black box that plugs into a vehicle’s OBD-II port and can block mobile phones while a vehicle is underway. This means no calls, text messages or data can get through. BUT there’s a caveat, and it’s a BIG one. You have to have a corresponding application installed on your handset. This limits its functionality to smartphones PLUS, if you ever wanted to circumvent the system all you’d have to do is uninstall the app. Pretty stupid. The price for all this nonsense? About 130 bucks. If you’re that worried why don’t you just turn the phone off when you get in the car?

Ok, back to the good stuff. Ford versus Chevy, Mustang versus Camaro, we’re talking mega-powered ponycars. The Camaro ZL1 packs a 580 horsepower punch, with 556 pound-feet of torque. The 2013 Shelby GT500 is set to parry Chevy’s blow with 650 horsepower and an earth-shattering 600 pound-feet of twist. With more oomph and a lighter curb weight the Ford should be the quicker car, but Al Oppenheiser, the Camaro’s chief engineer says they’ve done simulations, and the ZL1 should be quicker from zero to 60 and around the Nürburgring. Is he right or is this just trash talk? We’ll have to wait until both cars are available to find out.

Sergio Marchionne says the most important investment that Chrysler is making in new product is with the new Jeep Liberty. Why does he say that? We’ll get into it, right after the break.

Sergio Marchionne believes they have an awful lot riding on the next generation Jeep Liberty. In fact, he says it’s going to redefine the SUV, as well as move the Jeep brand to a brand new level. And when the Liberty comes out, look for the Patriot and Compass to go away.

We’ll be webcasting live from the Washington DC auto show this coming Thursday at noon, with a strong line-up. If you want to know what the regulators, environmentalists, suppliers and electric car manufacturers are talking about, join us then, right here at Autoline.tv

And that wraps up this show, thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

68 Comments to “Episode 809 – January Sales Up, Honda Delivers 1st Fit EV, New Device Blocks Calls in Car”

  1. motorman Says:

    If the cell phone blocker is cell phone specific as far as off and on goes that means that the parents could shut off the cell phone of jr and he could not turn it back on with his cell phone ,correct ???

  2. Jonathan Says:

    PLEASE DO A STORY ON THIS NEWS !!! Jamaica Queens is a real pit and the NY auto show needs to stay in NYC…..

    If you guys think Detroit or NY city are tough…Jamaica Queens is so bad….even though I’ve lived here my whole life I wouldn’t be heading over to the relocated show…

    I still remember the good old days the NY auto show was at the collisum (SP) Now that was a charismatic show…but Jamaica queens??? BOOOHISS! Please report this story so the Governor can hear the complaints before this relocation effort goes too far.

    Governor plans to tear down newly renovated Jacob Javits Center, NY Auto Show home
    New York Governor Andrew M. Cuomo has big plans for the Jacob K. Javits Center. The politician recently announced plans to tear down the convention hall to make way for housing, hotels and museums. The remainder of the land would then be leased to developers as an additional source of income for the state. That comes as a shock to architect Bruce S. Fowle, who has been renovating the structure for the past six years, working to turn the 25-year-old structure into a brighter space with a smaller environmental footprint.

    While the proposed demolition is still years away if it occurs at all, the plan brings into question the future of the New York Auto Show. Cuomo says the conventions like the auto show that are currently hosted by the Jacob K. Javits Center will be relocated to a new $4 billion center at the Aqueduct racetrack in Jamaica, Queens. The funds will reportedly come from Genting, a Malaysian gambling company, according to The New York Times.

  3. David Sprowl Says:

    So Honda jumps on the EV band wagon. During the NAIAS I heard the Nissan group claim this is a zero emission vehicle. Really? Since 60% of this country’s electric generation comes from the burning of fossil fuel (coal) it is a bit disingenuous to suggest that electric cars are zero emissions. That would be like me claiming that Hostess Twinkies are zero calories! So long as they remain in the wrapper on the table!

  4. Ron Paris Says:

    “If you want to know what the regulators, environmentalists, suppliers and electric car manufacturers are talking about…”

    Gee, it’s hard to imagine a more UNINTERESTING group to spend time with!

  5. tj Martin Says:

    Here’s what Chevy Dealers think of the VOLT ;


  6. LS ford Says:

    I will hand it SM. This is the first time I have heard him be so down to earth about a new product and potentially correct. His comments about the segment and the anchor are probably dead on. I am actually curious to see what they define as the core of the SUV brand and what are the key priciples of the market. So many auto OEMS have tried to tell us what this market is, I am curious to see what people outside the US would define as the segments core values.

  7. Autos101 Says:

    #3 I second that

  8. LS ford Says:

    Outside of the “cool minivan” that most people are using SUVs as, and that 80% of them never go off road. What is the segment really all about. And if it is not outdoor enthusiast type of buyers, is that not in direct contrast with the values of the Jeep brand???

  9. Autos101 Says:

    “If you want to know what the regulators, environmentalists, suppliers and electric car manufacturers are talking about…”

    What I want to know is when these damned fools will retire, or drop dead, whichever comes first.

  10. tj Martin Says:

    @ Jonathan

    Methinks you’re getting a little too worked up over nothing there my good man

    Jamaica Queens in fact isn’t 1/10th as bad as all of NYC was not more than twenty years ago … and anyway the move is still conjecture not established fact

    And hey . A little ‘ reality check ‘ for the greater NYC tourist isn’t such a bad thing IMHO . All that ‘ Gentrification ‘ business is a little OTT Disneyland Fairy Tale after all 8)

  11. tj Martin Says:

    @ LS ford

    If Marchionne says it you can be guaranteed that either ;

    A) He’s dead wrong


    B) He’ll change his mind in about five minutes or so


    C) He’s lying thru his teeth about his future plans for JEEP or what ever else he’s going on about

    Such is Stronzetto Marchinonne’s standard M/O


  12. Lex Says:

    @2 – Jonathan

    As a New Yorker, What you are saying does not surprise me! If Gov. Cuomo Jr wants to create jobs and more living space near the Island of Manhattan then why doesn’t work to revitalize the South Bronx? There is plenty of open space available for additonal housing or sports arenas / complexes. Look what they did with the New Yankee Stadium. I would go to a venue for the Auto Show in the South Bronx that has secure parking like Yankee Stadium. Otherwise we should do like Japan and use the Cities garbage as landfill along the coast of Manahattan on the Hudson River side. This would extend the coastal area for construction and reduce the width of the river causing the river to run faster. Why stop there! We can put a hydro electic plant / dam across the Hudson where the Tappan Zee Bridge is located. Cars and Truck can drive over it, while the rushing waters of the Hudson River produce cheap electric power for NYC. This would allow the Indian Point Nuclear Plant to be closed, especially since it sits on a geological fault line. HA-HA-HA!

    John McElroy you are right about the whole issue regarding Cell Phone Usage in Vehicles: “If you’re that worried why don’t you just turn the phone off when you get in the car?” Well Said!

  13. Lex Says:

    @7 LS Ford

    When I suggested to Honda that they should offer the Odyssey in AWD, they told me to buy a Pilot! I already owned a Pilot! I needed the additional space offered by a minivan for weekend ski trips. The new styling of the AWD Toyota Sienna does not appeal to me. Honda does not listen to it’s buyers. If Hyundai / Kia want to grab some of the Minivan and SUV market from competitors it should reintroduce the Sedona as a Hyundai with Fluidic Design and AWD.

  14. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Wonder what Marchionne has up his sleeve (if anything), however, Jeep could use a better small SUV; the Grand Cherokee, is well, too grand for some. Like the ‘original’ Cherokee, that sure fit well with a whole lot of buyers back in the day.

  15. tj Martin Says:

    JEEP & Sergio

    Funny that Marchionne is making such a big deal about the future of the Liberty , when in fact its the Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee that are the sales stars , with the Liberty collecting dust on the dealers lots .

    Hmmmmn . Could it be ? Marchionne’s Madness Marching ever onward ? Nahhhh.

    Or …. could it ? ;-)

  16. tj Martin Says:

    @ Lex

    re; #12

    Sorry Lex but NO ONE in manufacturing ( of any kind ) listens to the consumer these days , including Hyundai/KIA .

    You figures out what ya needs . Finds a manufacture that makes what you wants ….. and hopefully …. assuming you can afford it ….

    ….. you buy it

    Thats how I wound up with my current ride . Any other strategy these days is a study in abject frustration .

    Trust me on this one . I know this all too well ;-)

  17. tj Martin Says:



  18. tj Martin Says:

    @ Lex

    Or as an option , get yourself one of these built ( the white one)


  19. LS ford Says:

    @ #17

    TJ, that is one cool looking van! How do you come up with all these references!

    I still think SM is closer to honesty in talking about the wieght of the platform. And that the current market does not represent what customers would want.

    Now, to everyones point, I am not sure he can or will deliver on his promises. But, I am glad at least that he is saying it is up to them to fail.

  20. C-Tech Says:

    I’ll be picking up my new / used 2000 Jeep Cherokee limited (4×4 plus leather seats) this spring.

  21. C-Tech Says:

    John please ask the regulators about their desire to see more “alternative fuel” cars yet why do they think the variety availible seem to sell in few numbers? Why are so many regulators seem to be against Diesel powered cars and trucks, constantly raising the bar for these fuel efficient vehicles which can run on somewhat renewable bio-Diesel?

  22. tj Martin Says:

    @ C-Tech

    re; #20

    The problem is , in fact that the Democrats and Obama specifically are heavily , personally invested into E/V’s , regardless of their viability and/or consumer desire , therefore cutting all funding for any type of alternative fuel vehicle other than E/V’s so’s to hopefully pad their back pockets .

    Why do you think it is Obama’s administration is giving so much of our Tax Dollars to the likes of Fisker and TESLA ( both who are DOA ) as well as towards the VOLT along with suppressing a multitude of articles , etc that show E/V’s in a negative light ?

    Profit my good man . Greed and personal profit . Not that the Democrats would ever place personal wealth above the best interests of the general public .

    Well …. yes they have ….. are and will continue to do as long as they can get away with it .


    A ‘ Fit ” E/V . An oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one

  23. tj Martin Says:

    @ LS ford


    A) I’s a bona fide Gearhead

    B) I’ve done more than my fair share of off road adventuring

    c) There’s an Iceland trip in the works should a certain volcano go ballistic , so I keep up with the options

    D) I’m a little bit ( OK a whole lot ) weird :o

    As to Stronzetto I’ve come to the point where its easier to not believe anything he says or promises , especially when he isn’t making sense

    A brandy spankin new JEEP Cherokee would make a ton of sense if done right . The Liberty on the other hand has been a bit of a JEEP bad joke , so why update that ?

  24. tj Martin Says:


    Since LS ford liked my van link so much , here is by far the coolest car , custom or otherwise of the 2012′s so far

    This is the proper use of a classic BMW


    FYI Cole Foster is cooler than all of us combined , he’s a heck of a builder and this is one baaaaad Bimmer . I’m all over 356 Outlaws but this Bimmer Outlaw may make a convert of me yet

    The Mrs is thrilled I didn’t see this before buying my current ride : because if I saw this first …… well ……… an 840i might of found its way to Mr Foster’s doorstep for him to work his magic on .

    Then again my license is thrilled I didn’t see CF’s Bimmer as well as now it gets to stay in my possession ;-)

  25. LS ford Says:

    at TJ

    How did you know I was a BMW nut!! I just sold my 98 540 m sport. Because it does not maintain as good as it ran. I loved the car, but tired of paying for it. I think I still would go after a 3.0 csl or this one….


  26. LS ford Says:

    And here is my dream car…


  27. Phoenix Mark Says:

    Listen to what Sergio said. He would not change and inch of the Liberty. He is talking about the platform and engines.

  28. Autos101 Says:

    John McElroy,

    Are you planning to do a “Larry King” when you interview these clowns in Wash DC, and ask them if they like baby seals, a Barbara Walters (and ask them, if they were a tree, what kind of tree would they be) or do you plan to just smile knowingly while they throw a heap of BS spin upon all of us?

    Or, as I would hope, are you willing to CHALLENGE their nonsensical ideas?

  29. Phoenix Mark Says:

    Listen to what Sergio said. He would not change an inch of the Liberty. He is talking about the platform and engines.

  30. Lex Says:

    @ tj Martin # 17

    That is some white van. I wonder if I can rent it for my future trip to Alaska or the Artic Circle.

  31. Autos101 Says:

    LS ford Says:
    January 23rd, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “I just sold my 98 540 m sport.”

    You mean a 6-speed manual or an M fiver? I assume the first. Did you buy it new? If used, it might have been abused on the track.

    I was actually looking for a 97-03 5-series, preferably the 540 manual, or a (very different vehicle) 91-99 S-class or E class (various models), but I ended up finding a bargain 740iL 98 close to home, test drove it twice, took the risk and bought it, and am in the seventh year of a very satisfying experience, and it is much, much more reliable as some may think.

  32. LS ford Says:

    The engine was strong, tranny was great. It was a one owner car, never tracked. I put some 150k miles on it, but I had to part with it. Just the little electrical nuannces kept driving me nuts. I kept the 99 528 as it was much easier on the pocket. The six is very reliable compared to the 8. I thought about a 7 but I figured it would be the same issues as I was having. SO, I would go vintage with less electronics in the future.

    @ PHX Mark –

    I think SM is saying that he would not change an inch of the NEW liberty. So if i think it means that the new truck is a departure and they will not change anything about it. Not the current vehicle. Unless I took that the wrong way

  33. Autos101 Says:

    #31 My 98 V8 has been fautless and so has the transmission. I bought it with all kinds of options for 10% of what the 750iL 4.0 lt costs new now. Mine had more than one owner, but he drove it 60 miles each way to his job, so I assumed (right) that he kept it in excellent shape or he would be fired if he had to miss work every now and then.

  34. Autos101 Says:

    “I thought about a 7 but I figured it would be the same issues as I was having.”

    7 drivers would be expected to be more conservative and also, due to the higher cost, more careful with their cars, than one with a 540 manual or esp an M5.

    ” SO, I would go vintage with less electronics in the future. ”

    I read somewhere the 7 just before mine (mine is a 95-01 series) had a far more unreliable and complex ‘bus’ electrical-electronics system, which they replaced with some thing much more efficient, reliable and quite different in my 7.

  35. tj Martin Says:

    @ LS ford – I didn’t ( know you was a Bimmer guy ) I just love what Cole’s done to the CS . I’m definitely more ‘ Kit Basher ‘ than ‘ numbers matching ‘ when it comes to Classic cars so as much as I love the ‘ Batmobile ‘ Bimmer I’d take Cole’s version over it


    @ Phoenix Mark – What does it matter what Sergio say he’s gonna change – the Libery is and has been a flop . But ….. in light of his plans for the Wrangler ( body on frame FIAT based platform ) I wouldn’t bet on anything with Stronzetto


    @ HtG

    A) Figured it out ( cryptographs before my first cup or two never sink in till later

    B) Did some reading . Impressive ! Too bad we’re otherwise engaged

    C) If you’ve relations in Joisey we may have even less degrees of separation than you or i thought .

  36. LS ford Says:

    Yeah, you heard right on the older 7, and typically true similarily the old 80′s 635.

    I was thinking 70′s 3.0csl or the first M5. Very raw, and fruegal as well. I have too many toys and too little income to support all these
    “project thoroughbreds”.

  37. tj Martin Says:

    @ Lex

    Talk to the guys at Overland Journal Magazine . They’ve got the inside skinny on anything having to do with Overland ( Adventure ) Off Roading / rentals / tours etc

    If they don’t know , they’ll know who will

  38. LS ford Says:


    I is b a collector of under appreciated toys. That is under appreciated by the household… :)

    I think I would have one car for each company out there. IE one car per brand…really the best way to understand the DNA of each car company is to really drive (often) a car from each company. To understand an Alfa is to own one….to get smart is to sell it after a few years! :o

  39. Chuck Grenci Says:

    Agreeing with ‘LS’; Sergio meant that the new replacement is spot on (in his opinion) and doesn’t need any changes before coming to market.

  40. tj Martin Says:

    LS ford

    Having been the proud owner of a 77 Alfetta GT which i later ‘ Kit Bashed ‘ into a streetable version of the AutoDelta Alfetta GT Corsica Rally car , I’d have to agree with the last statement of # 37 completely

    I can also assure you had I gone the Cole Foster 840i route instead of the Benz there’d of been hell to pay in the Tj household . The Mrs was none to sad when i let go of my last under appreciated ( that became very appreciated considering the profit I made ) ‘ Classic ( which I did not Kit Bash thank goodness )

    Her attitude when I was considering our lawyers Beck 550 replica last week , to morph into a 550 Outlaw was …….. errr……. non too positive …. so I passed

  41. Autos101 Says:

    840s and 850s are way overpriced (largely because they are 2-door coupes and not conservative 4-doors), they really are a poor value, and their interiors are far less luxurious and too “80s” looking (gauges etc) than the 97-03 5 or my 98 7.

  42. HtG Says:

    Non auto post

    34 tj. funny story? Hamburg asked what he’d like to play. He said anything but JB. They came back to him asking for JB.

  43. LS ford Says:


    A fellow alfetta owner!! Mine was a ’79 Mille Miglia. Sold it to a friend of mine…. Loved the car, and hated it… Here is the link from his sale of the car.


    At times I miss that car. But I am after a 74 2000 GTV now.

  44. motorman Says:

    C Tech, diesel is a carbon based fuel and that is a NO NO!!! the regulators are not trying to get you more MPG they want to outlaw carbon based fuels.

  45. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG- Of course they did ! And why wouldn’t they , knowing that side of the bizz as I do , where even the biggest of stars is still considered an indentured servant by the money bags in charge . I’m sure he’s told you that . Yes ?


    @ motorman – This wouldn’t by any chance be my UK mate from CAR motorman … would it ?

    And no , they’re not trying to outlaw carbon based fuel , its just all your money is being spent on them making money from their investments in E/V’s .


    @ Autos101 – A better deal initially the 4 door Bimmer may be , but I can all but guarantee you it’ll be the 840/850 that’ll be worth the big $$$$$ in the end . But the 840i is the one to buy as its A) The cheapest and B) BMW’s V12′s aren’t exactly known for their reliability


    @ LS ford – The dink that got my Alfa put it back to stock and … well …… promtly stuffed it into a guard rail . I loved the car up and until around 45,000 when it suddenly morphed from never a problem to a problem a day .

    But …… for what its worth , my Audi S4 avant had ten times the problems with much less miles on the clock . The Alfa never left me stranded whereas the S4 did do twice in three years .

  46. tj Martin Says:

    @ Autos101

    BWTM on the 7 vs 8 debate

    The ladies . Try scoring in what is now by the trendaholics point of view :an ancient 4 door luxo barge Bimmer vs in the drivers seat of any 8 series .

    The 8 will win that one as well 10 times out of ten !

    Plus the 8 is a lot more fun to drive , by a long shot . Not that the 7 isn’t the more practical choice mind you but sometimes practicality needs to be tossed out the window for the sake of a bit of fun 8)

  47. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    Totally off topic !

    I’d like to hear his impressions of the hall afterwards .

    IMHO its too lifeless and dry ( my favorite of all time is St Martin’s in the Field ) Sort of like the comparison between a BOSE and an Audiophile system .

    The BOSE being so over averaged that everything sounds alike whereas each and every recording sounds different on the Audiophile system

    Crap I gotta get outta this damn city . Round ten of sirens today this one right at my door !

  48. HtG Says:

    WTH is it with Bose? I can’t stand that pile. And they shove their preciousness down our throats with tons of marketing. OOOOOh, Lordy, this car has a Bose SYSTEM!

    this outburst has concluded

  49. HtG Says:

    BWTM, tj! I’m driving him to the venue here in NY, and we’re listening to a raw track from a forthcoming CD, a Bruch piece, something Scottish and rarely performed. Guess what? The Honda Civic SYSTEM is fine. Even in the lousy loud Honda

  50. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    Phew !!! Now there’s a real confidence booster . One minute I’ve got the entirety of the KCFD at my front door , axes in hand etc etc so i drop everything and run outside to hear …….

    ” Damn , we’ve got the wrong block ”

    Yeah that makes me feel real good about where I live !

    BOSE -Without going into all the technology suffice it to say the reason their systems have the appearance of so much sound and deep bass , while in truth to the discerning ear they are lifeless flat and one dimensional ( the best description is one dimensional sound ) is because they are extremely digitally processed to compensate for their Acoustical lacks

    e.g. Everything comes out the same cause thats all the system is capable of doing . Pumping out the same frequencies regardless of what’s being inputed from your CD etc

  51. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    Too bad there isn’t a back room chat area here so’s we could connect as I’d show him a bit of KC hospitality while he’s here . Namely some killer BBQ !

  52. HtG Says:

    50 exactly. just nothing there. I get so wound up about it because of the marketing. “Such an honor to listen on their equipment” Yeesh, ya hit a nerve there tj.

    I need to calm down. Yesterday, the performance was at Purchase Performing Arts Center. An intimate space that gets used for recording work, but I thought a lot of the sound was escaping up the skyworks in the stage building. The volume wasn’t there. A board member I was chatting with didn’t like it too much when I offered my critique. Quick HtG, back up and say nice things!

  53. HtG Says:

    51 they all go into travel mode, tj. Barely get out of the hotel.

  54. tj Martin Says:


    You should hear Franzl’s system in full song . Even compared to my rather nice Audiophile set up its pretty darn excellent … for all types of music

    Which is what I listen to

    Ever told you what my single biggest influence is ? Back in the 60′ s 70′s there was a station in NYC ( WKRS I think ) who’s motto was ” We only play good music ” which for them ranged from Debussy to Dylan , Parker to the Band , Monroe to the Stones with a touch of philosophy / poetry and Fireside Theater on the side .

  55. tj Martin Says:


    Gee HtG I know that but i also know that one can sneak a quick run out the door for some good eats when one is ……. how shall we say this …. as devious as i and most of my associates were


    After all that famous violinist found the time to find and pursue me now didn’t she . And she was one of the top ten at the time

  56. tj Martin Says:

    Toodles HtG and tell the cuze to break a leg !

  57. HtG Says:

    55 I believe the deviousness. Once, we were at a practice in CH where the gal soloist was using a computing device to read her score on. Cuz suggested to me, while we’re sitting a few feet away, how funny it would be to have some porn flash on her screen at some point. Not a peep out of me, but I think I’ve still got a rip somewhere.

  58. tj Martin Says:

    @ HtG

    I think I know what of the two hotels he’ll be in ( attached to Crown Center/ Union Station

    And if I’m correct , tell him , downstairs in the Crown Center Food Court

    Three Pigs BBQ

    Not as good as Oklahoma Joe’s but a darn good second best


  59. tj Martin Says:

    Also tell him the Japanese restaurant isn’t bad . the italian one is terrible and avoid the hamburgers at all cost

  60. HtG Says:

    thx tj

  61. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The first Liberty was decent, except for being too thirsty, if you like SUV’s. The second Liberty was one of those rare cases of a new vehicle being worse than the one it replaced. The current Liberty is obese, has a substandard intrior, and is thirsty. Properly equipped, it is pretty good off road, but no one uses that capability.

    Sergio’s new Liberty will be a lot different, no doubt lighter, and we’ll have to wait and see what it’s like.

  62. Autos101 Says:

    #46 Dream on. The 8 is an OBSOLETE Dinosaur, com pared to the NEXT 7 series.

    No wonder BMW DISCONTINUED that loser 8.

    The cuurrent 6 is not much better, ridiculously overpriced and a back seat smaller than the… 3 series. Maybe they made it aq bit bigger in the brand new 6.

    What an effing ripoff that only an ostentatious fool would love.

    Get a 3 COUPE. FAR BETTER, at 1/3 of the price.

  63. Autos101 Says:

    The coupes I really liked were the Mercedes S class coupes until 1991. Very elegant and WITH A decent back seat. Their 91-99 successors were very heavy but still great cars. But now it is not practical to buy these very old cars. All thhese 80s-early 90s cars have little to none of the technology you NEED to drive such a car daily, esp in the snowbelt.

  64. Autos101 Says:

    and it is EXACTLY the opposite of what you say, TJ, it is the LADIES precicely that always prefer the smaller Merc SL and the 8 and 6 COupes, andc esp convertibles, very, very few of them ever buy the S class or the 7 series.

    But in any case a 2-door or a conv is a tgerrible deal used because they have far higher prices than the sedans, partly for the above reason and partly because collectibles are rarely 4 door conservative designs.

  65. Autos101 Says:

    Besides the S class coupes, I also liked very much the old E class coupe that was made until 1995 or so. Today there is a brand new E class coupe and Convertible, looks striking in white, but I have not driven it yet.

  66. tj Martin Says:


    Ahh the bain of Cluelessness !

    The 8 is ten times the driver your Old and In the Way 7 series is ….

    Has about 100% more collectable factor ……

    And sorry mate , but the ladies prefer a touch of danger in their men , not stability .

    How many Super Models , Prima Ballerina’s , Figure Skaters , Prima Donna World Class violinist you dated in the last three decades ? I’ll assume ….. None !

    Wrong car ……. and just maybe …… the wrong guy ( you )

    7 series – Staid but decent and for bankers lawyers n’ accountants

    8 Series – Rock and Classical musicians Artists and the odd doctor or two . Danger being written all over the 8

    3 Series – Other than the E30 M3 and the current M3 CS the ultimate poseur mobile for Hair Dressers , Wanna be’s and Wish they had enough money to buy better .. snobs

  67. HtG Says:

    Do you know the way to san jose?

    Doo ky banditttttoooosss

  68. HtG Says:

    -Do you know the way to san jose?

    -Doo ky banditttttoooosss