Episode 1072 – All-New SEAT Leon SC, Ram 1500 Gets a Diesel, UAW Lacks Salesmanship

February 15th, 2013 at 11:49am

Runtime: 8:50

SEAT, the Spanish automaker owned by Volkswagen, is set to introduce the all-new Leon SC at the Geneva Motor Show next month. In the third quarter, Ram will offer a diesel package in its 1500 pickup. The UAW has been spectacularly unsuccessful in organizing any of the foreign transplants in the US, but could fix that by changing its sales pitch. All that and more, plus we reveal the identity of our Barn Find, the little blue British-made sports car we showed you on Wednesday.

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Whoo-hoo, it’s the end of the workweek. But before it’s officially over, we’ve got some news to get to here.

SEAT, the Spanish automaker owned by Volkswagen, is set to introduce the all-new Leon SC at the Geneva Motor Show next month. The three-door compact is powered by a variety of gasoline and diesel engines with displacements that range from 1.2 to 2.0 Liters which also feature direct injection and turbocharging. The engines can be mated to a five or six speed manual or a dual clutch transmission. Some unique features for an entry level compact include optional full LED headlights and standard safety technology like drowsy driver detection and Lane Assist, which nudges the steering to keep you in your lane.

Here’s yet another pre-show reveal before Geneva. It’s the global debut of a new Chinese brand called Qoros, which is a joint venture between Chery Automobile and the Israel Corporation, a global industrial holding company. The Qoros 3 Sedan, which will be sold in China and Europe, is powered by two 1.6 Liter four-cylinder gasoline engines, a naturally aspirated version and a turbo. Each comes standard with a six-speed manual, and a six-speed dual clutch transmission is also available. The Qoros 3 Sedan goes on sale later in the year. And judging from the pictures, it looks like a decent product.

Last night on Autoline After Hours our guest was John Davis the Chief Program Engineer for the C-MAX, Focus and Fiesta. He gave us some more insight into the Fiesta ST, which will be hitting showrooms later this summer. Guess what? He likes it better than the much-praised Focus ST! The Fiesta’s 1.6 Liter EcoBoost engine pumps out 197 horsepower through a 6-speed manual transmission, and it has a better power-to-weight ratio than the Focus ST. Being lighter, he says it’s nimbler and more responsive and, Davis hints, it may even be faster than the Focus. You can watch that entire show right now at our website Autoline.tv by clicking on the After Hours link.

I keep saying that 2013 is the Year Of The Diesel in the American market. Jeep, Chevrolet, Mazda are bringing diesels to the market this year. And, in the 3rd quarter, now Ram will offer a diesel package in its 1500 pickup built by VM Motori, which is a subsidiary of Fiat. It’s a 3.0 Liter V-6 mated to an 8-speed automatic, presumably the same package going in the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Ram claims it will have best-in-class fuel efficiency, best-in-class torque and impressive capabilities. Obviously Ford and Chevy will watch this development intensely. GM has its own V-6 diesel developed and I’ve got to believe that Ford has some sort of Plan B, because if Ram is even moderately successful they are going to have to be fast followers.

The UAW has been spectacularly unsuccessful in organizing any of the foreign transplants in the US. I think a key reason for the failure is how the union tries to sell itself. It accuses foreign automakers of being greedy, unfair, and that they violate human rights. That line may have worked in the 1930’s but not today. Meanwhile, UAW members are collectively collecting $750 million in profit sharing checks from GM, Ford and Chrysler. Now that’s how you sell the benefits of being a member of the union. You show the workers how you’re going help them share in the profits they help generate. So my advice to the union is drop all the socialist rhetoric, and change your sales pitch. Like they teach you in Marketing 101, don’t just sell the steak, sell the sizzle.

Earlier this week, we showed you this royal blue sports car spotted by Gary Magarian in Nova Scotia. We asked you to take your best guesses as to what it was. Well, we couldn’t stump you gearheads. The vast majority of you got it right. This is the British-made Jensen C-V8, produced between 1962 and 1966. Did you know the body was almost all-fiberglass, and that the V8 was a Chrysler big block? OK, I admit it, I didn’t know either. We had to look it up. If you think you’ve got a good Barn Find for a future show, send an e-mail to viewermail@autoline.tv. We look forward to seeing what other fine motor cars you unearth!

The automotive business sure has changed since I started covering it. In fact, automotive journalism has changed even more than the industry, and that’s what’s coming up next.

As most of you know I host a weekly television program called Autoline This Week. Except that this week I’m not the host of the program. Instead, we invited Carol Cain to host the show, and I’m actually a guest on my own program. That’s because this week’s show is all about how the automotive industry and automotive journalism have changed over the last 30 years. Also joining me for this show are my colleagues Tony Swan from Car And Driver and Edward Lapham from Automotive News. It’s a pretty interesting conversation, check this out.

(Our preview for Autoline This Week can only be viewed in the video version of today’s show.)

Of course you can see that entire show on our website, or check your local public television listings since Autoline This Week is seen on many of those stations across the United States and Canada.

But that wraps up this weeks reports. Thanks for making Autoline part of your workday and please join us back here again on Monday.

Thanks to our Partners for embedding Autoline Daily on their websites: Autoblog and WardsAuto.com

144 Comments to “Episode 1072 – All-New SEAT Leon SC, Ram 1500 Gets a Diesel, UAW Lacks Salesmanship”

  1. ColoradoKid Says:

    Lithium Ion Battery Wake Up Call ;

    As reported today Airbus will be taking any and all Li batteries out of their new planes due to Li’s inherit instabilities : This news along with the recent exposure of the TESLA S’s Li failings ‘ should ‘ be a wake up call for the entire automotive industry as well . Somehow though … I doubt it

    ( btw did anyone else watch the Dan Rather report on how difficult it is to extinguish an Li fire ? Its … horrific even when tackled by the pros with all the right equipment )


    Year of the Diesel ;

    The question is ‘ If they build it ( and it looks like they are ) Will they ( the paying customers ) come ?

    Other than P/U’s and JEEP’s I kind of doubt it … assuming diesel prices and availability remain as is . But only time will tell .


    I for one will be watching the episode on Automotive Journalism quite closely …. especially since recently watching first hand the demise ( quality and substance wise ) of one of my formerly favorite automotive print magazines

  2. pedro fernandez Says:

    A Dodge truck with a Fiat diesel? I suspect GA is running to his nearest Dodge dealer to put a deposit down on one of these, or maybe not!

  3. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The news I’ve heard about Airbus, is that Boeing’s experience with the 787 is why they will stick with NiCad batteries. At least that is what I heard on NPR. I wonder if they really will use NiCads, though. NiCad batteries have long since been replaced by NiMH batteries in most applications where they were once used.

  4. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Ram and Cruze diesels should help tell the story about whether Americans want diesels, once reality sets in. While Fiat doesn’t have such a good reputation, their diesel that will be used in the Ram is probably ok. It is used in a number of mid-range trucks sold in various markets around the world.

    VW has a fairly high take rate of TDI’s in cars that offer them, but since VW are “the only game in town” with affordable diesel cars, the actual sales numbers are pretty low.

  5. ColoradoKid Says:

    Recall Update ;

    Uh oh C-tech ….


    …. truly I take no pleasure in placing this one up in light of C’s recent purchase . Sorry C. But thought you should know :(

    #3 This morning NPR reported No More Li’s For Airbus … with the NYtimes etc confirming .

  6. T. Bejma Says:

    This one ought to get CK’s feathers ruffled…

    Seems CK’s favorite CEO has proof that the NYT article beating up the Tesla for poor range was basically LIES and he has the data to substantiate his claim…


  7. G.A.Branigan Says:

    The fiat diesels are in fact VM Motori and are excellent,and I owned the 2.8L 4 bucket CRD.Excellent power and mpg.Do I want a ram diesel? Right now,no.I don’t care for their off road pkg,and as I’ve stated before,that in it’s self is a deal breaker for me.I am very specific in what I like in that area,and GM is the only OEM that ‘gets it’.I have had both ford and Dodge’s so I did compare through experience of ownership and use.I wait patiently to see what GM come up with for both the full size,and the up coming new Colorado,that does have the same off road pkg,just a wee bit smaller.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    C-tech’s X5 should be ok, since it is a six, or at least I think he mentioned it being a 3.0. The recall is for V8 X5′s.

  9. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Here’s more about that 3.0 diesel:


  10. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ T Bejma: I read that article this ayem and got a laugh out of it.This will end up in a nice brewhaha over a crappy car that was driven by a crappy reporter,lol.

  11. ColoradoKid Says:

    G.A. Branigan ;

    re; a response to your last post – episode 1071

    I couldn’t agree more with you if I tried G.A. Admittedly the closest I’ve come to P/U ownership was my 98 4Runner ( a truck most definitely … but not a P/U ) And unlike the stereotype Kit and others would like to portray I USED mine as intended . Narrow Gauge RR’s being a passion of both the wife and I .. exploring the many ghost towns and remains left behind in CO … Fly fishing in the Rockies ( and VT .. with no less than the likes of a Mr Brawn by my side… hint hint HtG ) … not to mention back country skiing and hiking … when in VT providing emergency transportation during the two blizzards we dealt with … including getting food and supplies for elderly neighbors and taking another’s wife to the Hospital when she went into labor etc etc etc .

    Certainly the stereotype of the American 4WD P/U SUV owner does exist … but like you G.A. I’m rapidly tiring of that stereotype being over exaggerated and blasted here on a regular basis by a few who for what ever reason hold a bias against the vehicles : by those in fact should know better !

    So once again G.A. I’ve got your back on this one as well .

  12. C-Tech Says:

    # @ % Thanks for the update C.K. but she does not have the X5 with the 4.4L V8 (that engine seems to have more problems than the six) which is being recalled.

  13. ColoradoKid Says:

    Seems to me more like all the evidence once again shows its CEO Elon Musk and his pretentious little toy thats in fact full of it ;


    Read all the other follow up articles the Times has published . The reporter was right . The tow company and its driver was right . Why gee …. it looks like once again ( just like Musk’s BBC debacle ) everyone’s right …. EXCEPT Elon Musk ! Even CNN’s attempt to contradict the Times article has fallen on deaf ears as err….. CNN drove the car when the temp was 40-50f ( Li’s become unstable below 32f and above 79 f and the Times reported drove it when 32f or below )

    Hint Mr Bejma . You might try reading ALL the news .. not just the parts that suit whatever your present agenda might be


  14. ColoradoKid Says:

    #12 Phew !!!

  15. C-Tech Says:

    That 3-door SEAT Leon SC looks great. I do wish the big 3 would bring back the hot hatch with 2 doors, not 4.

  16. T. Bejma Says:

    Hint Mr. Martin – That is why I did not include the response from the NYT (of course they will deny it).

    Actually AutoBlog probably had the MOST impartial analysis.


    No agenda here, I could care less what Tesla does and the Volt has a backup generator so range anxiety is non-existent…

  17. pedro fernandez Says:

    Is there one single freaking new vehicle that does not get a recall of one type or another? You gotta wait till they work out all the bugs or get an LS otherwise. In the Autoline show Tony reminded me of the chance that Toyota took pitting the LS against the Merc S and did not make asses of themselves in the process. At a bargain price to boot!

  18. HtG Says:

    11 you wouldn’t tease about RB, would you CK? One more month until everyone shows their colors.


    Is this Musk/NYT thing getting play on TV? anyone know?

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11, and posts yesterday.

    I never said that no one needs pickups, just that many, or most people who have them don’t need them. I’m not just talking about seeing them on the road, usually with an empty box and no trailer behind. I know a lot of people, especially in Indiana, who have them, just “because they like them.” The main reason I ever bought one was to see what I was missing, and, for my purposes, I found that I wasn’t missing much, so I sold it after a couple years.

    Sorry if I offended anyone, and I’m sure you, G.A., have a reason to have an serious off-road vehicle, whether a pickup, or something else.

  20. T. Bejma Says:


    Didn’t see a word about it on CNN this morning. How much does the auto industry get anyway, especially when there is a cesspool of a cruise ship unloading and several disgruntled customers clamoring for a mic in their face so they can be on TV…

  21. ColoradoKid Says:

    TESLA ; And then there’s this ;



    HtG – No I would not ( tease that is ) and yes it has ( NYTimes vs TESLA ) CNN has tried to rebut the Time’s reporters findings with a road trip of their own : with the likes of CNBC etc revealing the flaws in CNN’s findings .

    And so …. what is the big deal about March anyway HtG ????


    Kit – No offense taken by me . I’m just sayin . And btw in case the point was missed …. I needed ( and used ) my 4WD SUV as well .. for much more ( when in rural VT ) than my own persona pleasure’s /hobbies etc I might add .

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I haven’t seen anything either. I guess when you have cruise ship fires, famous runners charged with murder, popes quitting, SecDef appointees being filibustered, etc., a dispute about a niche car gets lost.

  23. HtG Says:

    19 Unlike Kit, I think I was being a bit provocative on purpose. But I did spend some years using these work vehicles(there’s a blooper reel in a vault of me driving a fork lift). Love ‘em and like seeing them on the roads. I guess I get a little wound up about image displays by unworthies. Ask me about what I used to think about people that wouldn’t wash off their race numbers after triathlons(former national championships racer).

  24. ColoradoKid Says:

    Sorry TB but the NYTimes has third party confirmation on each and every one of their claims as well as the entire article . Even Jalopnik : who were TESLA supporters I might add : are admitting as much

    Just because , much like the Times review of the ATS , you cannot handle the truth ( not to mention feel a need to raise my ire despite every attempt making you look a bit …. poorly ) no matter how clearly it is stated or how well documented it might be doesn’t make it any less true .

    BTW Just HTH did you miss CNN’s report anyway TB ?

  25. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: Even those people who drive fullsize pickups without ‘needing’ said big truck,why is that a problem for you? Why do you care what anybody spends their money on in terms of vehicles? Why do people drive super expensive luxury cars when even basic shitboxes come with ac? For a couple of bux more they can get cruise and maybe xm.It’s what they want is the reason why.Does anybody need a ferrari? Of course not,but no one says squat when they see one tooling down the road.If someone wants to own/drive/and feed a fullsize bigass 4 door 4×4 pickup with a hemi,or any other gas guzzling big v8,all the power to them.You’ll never see me owning a barge like that.Way too big and because of it’s size,it would be completely useless to me,yet that same truck would comfortably tow a 2 horse trailer to their nearest trailhead so it has some utility.Stuff we don’t see……

  26. GM Veteran Says:

    Love the claim of best power in the segment, related to the Ram with the diesel. Let’s see, how many other light duty pickups are available with a diesel? Hmmmm, if its a segment of one, I guess the Ram would be best! What a ridiculous claim!

  27. Lex Says:


    I have a name for that new type of spark plug.
    Federal Mogul should call it a “Fusion Plug”.

    If they do not like than “Flux Capacitor” may still be available!

    Didn’t I tell you all yesterday that the front grill on the European Ford’s are better looking!
    Look at that picture of that red Euro Spec Ford Fiests ST.

  28. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ CK: I can see some of that scenery in my minds eye having been around Colorado a bit years ago.That 98 4runner you had is/was a very capable machine.I would like to use a suv type of vehicle but my mining equipment is wet and dirty…real dirty and real wet,so that is out.I tried in fact with our 06 CRD Liberty.Just wouldn’t get it and pulling a small utility trailer I have is not really what I want to do since my new better half wants a camper now.Anything made by jeep is totally out of the question as well.I know what works,and works well so I’ll stay my course….

  29. pedro fernandez Says:

    A very busy shopping center here in So Miami is opening a Tesla store, WHY? WHY? this is like opening an igloo building service, no one will need it. There are zero EV recharging stations around these parts.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I was ready to end this discussion, but I’ll partly answer your question about why I’d like it better if there were fewer big pickups (and SUV’s) on the road.

    1) They block my view of the road.
    2) They make driving more dangerous for other road users because of their mass, and high “bumpers” which would impact the “soft” side of a car in a crash.
    3) For the same reason, you have a high risk of damage to a car when parallel parked in front of, or behind a vehicle with bumpers higher than those of a car.
    4) They waste limited resources that we all have to share.

    As far as exotic sports cars, I like seeing them, partly because, yeah, I like them, but also because Ferraris and such are a rare sight on the road. That also applies to Rollers and, to a lesser extent, Bentleys. If I only saw a jacked up pickup truck once every two years, I might like seeing them too, though maybe not. Yes, other people feel differently about it.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Here is what NPR had to say about the NYT/Musk thing:


  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It would work for people who don’t go too far from home, and have lots of spare money. It wouldn’t work for most people in condos, like myself. That cord out of my third floor window, and across the parking lot, might be a problem.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The article I linked in #9 said that GM might use the VM Motori diesel in their trucks. Have you heard anything about that?

  34. HtG Says:

    29 You got to go check it out, Pedro. What store is the Tesla store next to? Do they have charging stations in the parking lot? I think you’ll like the interior of the car.

  35. pedro fernandez Says:

    There is a Mexican and a Thai joint there, so plenty of gas, just no charging stations.

  36. ColoradoKid Says:


    #25 +1

    FYI . I ordered my 98 w/TRD off road package and minimal goodies ( no leather – sunroof etc ) Fact is I ordered it spec’d out exactly how C&D recommended when they did their 4runner vs Land Rover Defender vs Mercedes M-Class comparison …. which a year later Toyota adapted as their 4Runner Sport model … because so many like myself were following C&D’s recommends and loving it ( Toyota .. at least sometimes … listens ) The beast ( Odie ) was a champ on and off road – 2 ft of snow – VT mud season – Class 4 trails etc .

    And I still regret ever selling the thing … much as I enjoyed the MINI I traded it for ( when we moved to KCMO ) or despite how much we both love the GLK . Simple . Straight forward . comfortable enough sums up my 4Runner experience . The new 4Runners though are much too wide and long to consider any longer and the FJ’s blind spots kind of disqualifies them as good ( IMO ) off road vehicles . So methinks a P/U may be your best bet …. unless someone lets something outta the bag we don’t know about yet .

  37. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: I know what your talking about with LIFTED trucks,but stock height trucks are not a problem.There are bumber height laws in some states,but not all.I have never in my life seen a lifted full size pickup off road anywhere near where I go.I personally don’t think they can do,what they look like they can do,if you get my meaning.

    I was told just this morning by a jeep dealer that GM no longer owns any part of VM Motori.I haven’t seen anything that confirms that,quite the contrary in fact.Maybe the renewed Izsusu (sp) affiliation will provide a diesel?

  38. ColoradoKid Says:


    The TESLA store fronts nearest me are all in very suburban Semi and Upscale Malls . Nary a charging station to be seen . Nary a person working the floor over the age of 25 in either of them ( w/most in a provocative dress I might add ) I got the full run down ( w/wife by my side ) and drove home with an armload of propaganda ( guess the Benz being my daily driver – yes they asked – got me some special treatment )

    Can’t tell you how many of the so called ” reviews ” of the TESLA S in the automotive press ( print ) are : with the addition of a couple of landmarks and road names/numbers , in fact TESLA propaganda quoted verbatim . So much for investigative journalism and unbiased reporting in the automotive print media these days ;-)

  39. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The 4Runner isn’t as wide as today’s pickups, but it’s pretty long, 190 inches. Still, even the standard cab, short box Silverado is about 15 inches longer than the 4Runner.

  40. Kit Gerhart Says:

    37, You’d have to be careful to keep the rubber side down if doing serious off-roading with the lifted trucks.

  41. ColoradoKid Says:

    38 correction ;

    Ooops ! My bad ! Hadn’t noticed the Cherry Creek TESLA store had closed ( show’s how long its been since going to that Mall ) with now only the one nearest me ( Greenwood Village if you must know HtG ) in Park Meadows Mall remaining . The real ‘shocker ‘ ( pun intended ) being TESLA closing down their Boulder store front . Really ? Closing down an E/V store in the Peoples Republic of Boulder in favor of placing it in the SUV- Soccer Mom – Suburban Stereotype personified Park Meadows Mall ? Oh wait . Its Mr Musk pulling the strings . Common sense and business logic playing no part in his thinking .

  42. ColoradoKid Says:


    Correct good sir . 11 -12″ ( 14″ max ) being the recommended ground clearance for all but the truly absurd trails . e.g. the ones you drive only to prove how macho you/your vehicle is … something I never subscribed to .

  43. C-Tech Says:

    I guess I am an in-between truck owner. When I was newly married and needed a car quickly, a 1996 S-10 p/u with the 4.3L and 5spd stick was available from a business owner that needed a bigger truck after a year. I bought it for the low cost and better fuel economy than my Mustang GT. It became clear that having a bed was great for the weekend projects the new (old) house demanded.

  44. ColoradoKid Says:

    For G.A. and anyone else interested ;


  45. HtG Says:

    41 You think maybe Tesla moves the stores on purpose to get different customers walking by? These stores are only displays like at an auto show, if I understood what I heard here in NY.

  46. Feldman Says:

    Somebody claimed here that that NYT reporter actually “lied” about his test of the Tesla that left it on a towtruck.

    If he really, actually lied, whether it was a little white lie or a lie that makes a difference, he should be fired immediately

    and the NYT should apologize to Tesla on page One, not Seventeen.

    From what I have seen, I strongly doubt that he lied at all. When I read his review last Sat at the NYT, it was obvious, however, that this would not be some kind of softball Larry King interview type evaluation, but a test of the limits of this car’s abilities.

    Apparently Mr Musk prefers to be intervied by the likes of Baba Wawa and asked instead

    “If you were a tree, Mr Musk (here Baba is gushing admiringly), what kind of a tree would you be?”

  47. Feldman Says:

    If you regularly read Autoblog, a good source of news and discussion, you frequently also get to see posts copied from “Autoblog Green”, usually about EVs. And now with the Tesla test debacle, the insanity and fanaticism of the delusional “green” Jihadists there is something to see!

  48. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Mr Musk answering…why a pussy willow of course Baba….

  49. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ 41: musk’s answer: “why a pussywillow of course Baba”.

  50. Feldman Says:

    I am now watching Autoline this Week. I was expecting a great show, but I am already dissappointed at the choice of moderator, who is a local TV anchorwoman or something, who can’t even correctly say “pundit” (it’s not “pundint!!!”) and does not seem to be an auto enthusiast.

    It was also ridiculous that the photo of (the otherwise great) Ed Lapham was one taken 40 years ago where his curent white hair was thick as a brush and black as pitch!

  51. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ 44: got it bookmarked,thanx ;}>

  52. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ 46: Musk’s answer, “why a pussywillow of course”.

  53. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ 46: Musk’s answer,” why a pussiewillow of course”.

  54. Ivan Sears Says:

    John, I think much of you commentary on the UAW. If you have actually been in, worked in, a transplant, younaremaware that the people there work hard, play hard and contribute to product and process enhancement everyday. They already feel that they are a part of the business. True, there is little tolerance for slack work efforts and absentees ism, but they remain great places to work. It is not work for everybody, however, and you have to pull your weight everyday. But there is nothing wrong with working for your paycheck. So, yes, the UAW must sell themselves as more than just organized labor. They must truly answer the question of “what’s in it for me to every associate. A daunting task for folks in states that are not supportive of unions in the first place.

  55. Feldman Says:

    @50 Alternatively, if Mr Musk turns out to be a horse (‘s a$$), he should be interviwed by

    Frau Blucher (not Bluecher, HtG. Blucher is the precise word for “Glue” in German, hence the perceptive horses’ terrified reaction)

  56. G.A.Branigan Says:

    With violin music in the backround….

  57. Feldman Says:

    Just finished that Sunday show. I really did not like that moderator, she seemed clueless and too scripted, even after she would ask a question of one of the panelists and would be corrected by him, she would, like if she was deaf or did not get it, proceed to ask the same flawed question of the second and third panelist.

  58. Feldman Says:

    PS John, Tony and Ed were all great, but IMHO a poor moderator really ruined a potentially great show.

  59. HtG Says:

    52 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blucher

    ‘THERE, I touched it’

  60. HtG Says:

    ‘Happy, now?’

  61. Feldman Says:


    Yes. I am allergic to typos as others are to singing out of tune.

  62. Feldman Says:

    PS I hope that you noted that even tho it may have been named after Mr. (or Gen.) “Bluecher”, the word for “Glue” in German, which was the obvious inspiration for that scene in “Young Frank.” was always “Blucher” without the umlaut “e” in it.

  63. Feldman Says:

    But I must confess that when I saw tha tmovie for the first time, when my knowledge of German was or of the ingredients of glue was not that good, I assumed the good Frau was named after the old General BluEcher of Waterloo fame.

  64. HtG Says:

    Seriously off topic

    If you want to hear Mel Brooks talk about YF, listen at WTFPod. Hint, he doesn’t his umlauts from his essets.

  65. HtG Says:

    Sorry, John et al. but it’s a matter of hönör



  66. C-Tech Says:

    Has anyone heard of Evolution Auto? They are supposed to be like CarMax.

  67. pedro fernandez Says:

    Used car dealer in Sanford, fl, most likely going against CarMax since AutoNation their big competitor now has new cars.

  68. HtG Says:

    A weekend film about the Monaco Grand Prix from SKY. 50min


  69. Cliff Says:

    Thanks for the news on the SEAT. Now can you get them to sell it here? I go to Tijuana, Mexico to the SEAT-VW dealership every year just to looks at those Spanish beauties. I wish I could bring one home!!

  70. Chuck Grenci Says:

    While still ‘way’ off topic, since it’s Saturday and the daily news is old already, I’ll comment on the “Blücher” reference. Two sources claim the reference to glue and horses is totally incorrect; makes a great story though. And agreeing with most here; love the movie.

  71. Feldman Says:

    Once more, with feeling:

    Glue in German It is BlUcher, not “BlUEcher”.

    And, surprisingly, it was correctly pronounced in the movie!

  72. cwolf Says:

    There is some good news for the day. GM introduces the SS at Daytona! If it is based off the same architecture as the camero and other US cars, why is it imported from Aussie land? Unless it is more Holden than one is lead to believe.

  73. Chuck Grenci Says:

    I am not German, but now I have found three references that state (however you spell it) that the reference is not, to glue (last reference is from an interview with Mel Brooks). I will accept defeat if proven wrong, and of course this isn’t a matter of ‘national security’; just would love to know for sure. :)

  74. C-Tech Says:

    @ #72 The new Impala SS is based on the Holden and is built in Australia. it is not based on the Camaro platform. Think G8, Chevy style.

  75. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’m pretty sure the SS and current Camaro are based on the same “Zeta” platform. TB, can you confirm this?

  76. G.A.Branigan Says:

    @ Kit: Or will be?

  77. ColoradoKid Says:

    The ( cough sputter hack hack ) ‘ new ‘ Chevy SS

    Well it better drive and perform a whole lot better than it looks ( no manual btw )

    Otherwise ……..zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    And errr…… its a Holden . Thats been made clear from day one . A parts bin …. get rid of the RWD platforms one way or another cause we’re ( Holden ) discontinuing them… so lets see if we can dump a few of the remaining stock on an unsuspecting American public and make a couple o’ bob in the process … Holden .

    And that my fellow site mates …. is straight from the horses ( Holden engineer ) mouth . Believe it or not …. your choice ;-)

  78. T. Bejma Says:


    Yes Kit, you are correct.

    I am a little underwhelmed with the SS. Looks exactly like the new Holden and no manual…

  79. ColoradoKid Says:

    Blucher ( sorry , cant figure how to do the umlauts on the mac )

    Its a German idiom loosely translated as ;

    ” He or She that goes Hard at It ”

    Make of that what you will .

    ( say thank you to the multilingual wife [ x 9 ] and her multitude of resources )

    HtG – Monaco video – two thumbs up – great find

  80. HtG Says:

    79 x9? Holy Himmel, CK! That’s practically deific.

    Alternäte DE keyböärd fünctiön mäkes för the ödd umlaut.

  81. HtG Says:


    I just read D. Coulthard’s memoir, and he also said Monaco is enormously stressful. He contrasted it with Silverstone, where he got to know the place so well that he’d get bored enough on the Hanger Straight that he’d start looking at the advertising signage while waiting for the next turn.

  82. Chuck Grenci Says:

    The new “SS” is just another model; good or bad, to be determined. I kind of like the looks, which is going to be subjective anyway. To me it is going to be a updated G-8 (good or bad, maybe, but I think good). It may take sales from Camaro, but with the new Camaro more ‘refined’ (cousin to the ATS), maybe that leaves an opening for the SS; guess we’ll see.

  83. Cwolf Says:

    I would like to see how the SS performs, but any shifting is done by paddles on the wheel. Not providing a stick shift will be a big mistake.

  84. cwolf Says:

    I want to see how the SS performs. Since it will only have paddle shifters, I think many will be disappointed.

  85. Chuck Grenci Says:


    Yeah, but with a Vette engine.

  86. cwolf Says:

    #84 yeah! What a reason to take the family car on a Sunday drive with the gang. A floor shift would, still, be more funner…er….

  87. pedro fernandez Says:

    Well, well according to TTAC GM has hit a home run with this SS, UNDERSTATED ASS-KICKING is what I would call it w/o all the crap that they dumped on the new Vette, I guess they ran out of crap,cause this came too quickly after the intro of the C7 so there was no time for changes, I love a car that performs without calling attention to itself all over the place.Big thumbs up to GM on this one.

  88. G.A.Branigan Says:

    A sleeper with paddle shifters? What has this world come to….

  89. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I like manual transmissions, but seriously, how many would they sell in the SS, if they offered a manual? I doubt that it would be more than 5% of sales, which wouldn’t justify tooling for it.

  90. pedro fernandez Says:

    Just look at how few BMW 3 and 5 series are sold with manuals, even the M’s are now automatics.

  91. ColoradoKid Says:

    First off … the SS ..

    TTAC has jumped the gun ( again ) on their assessment of the SS seeing as how no one’s even driven one ( except the highly modified pace car ) ….. so lets not be giving GM any two thumbs up as of yet Pedro

    Second …. ‘ Sleeper ‘ in the SS’s case … looks wise might be better taken literally …. as in ;

    Its looks will put you to sleep

    Seems GM’s designers IMO are suffering from a bit of Over Polarization and the Pendulum Principal ..

    Either they’re full on OTT verging on the ridiculous as with the new C7

    Or they sink to the depths of Appliance Ware on Wheels vapid boredom with the SS and the ATS ( You know you’re in deep trouble when Toyota’s designs incite more excitement than your own )

    Speaking with a UK friend this weekend he came up with an interesting analogy when he said ;

    ” GM is seriously beginning to remind me of BMC in the late 60′s early 70′s …One vapid car after another in a vain attempt to stem the flood waters in a rapidly sinking ship ”


    As to #79 …. has no one figured that one out yet ? A hint as to Mel Brooks ‘ real ‘ inside joke …… Perhaps the horsey wasn’t expressing fear when Frau Blucher’s name was mentioned … but rather …. errr…… excitement ? Think about it !

    Believe me when it hits you you’ll be falling all over yourself in laughter so hard you might hurt yourself ;-)


    HtG – Ist no verkenin on mine computer thingy …. and ist das HausFrau vatin speakin and typen das German ( she’s a Goethe Institute graduate and certified Internationally ) …. so vas das I knowin about umlauts und das keyboard … Ja Vol ?

    ( and I aint about ta switch over to das German Keyboard for one silly word with …. errr…. rather questionable intentions [ I'll ask an Apple Genius how for future reference ] …. good ol’ Mel Brooks . Never short of a less than family oriented insider joke or two )

  92. ColoradoKid Says:

    DW’s assessment of the OPEL Adam ;

    “Not bad .. but not good ”

    ” A bit too much of a MINI – FIAT 500 lookalike ”

    ” Dull … but not bad driving dynamics .. but its horribly slow ”

    ” Barely 100 euros less than the 500 ”

    ” The fuel consumption is not as good as it should be for a sub-compact ”

    ” When we parked it on a University Square the young people ignored it while it was the aging professors that asked about it ”

    And anyone wonders why it is OPEL can’t get out of their own way ? ( see 1st part of # 90 and apply to OPEL as well )

  93. Kit Gerhart Says:

    “” GM is seriously beginning to remind me of BMC in the late 60’s early 70’s …One vapid car after another in a vain attempt to stem the flood waters in a rapidly sinking ship ”

    I was in the UK in 1970-71, and it seemed that BMC’s problems were not the “vapidity” of their cars, but the quality and reliability. Also, BMC was still building cars in factories that were outdated to the point that they were almost “museums,” even at that time. It’s hard to make money doing that. They were still making Morris Minors, probably the same was as when they started making them in the late 40′s.

    Then, there was badge engineering run amock, worse than was ever the case with other car companies. There were a a zillion “brands” of Mini, Morris, Austin, Riley, Wolseley(sp?), and probably some I’ve forgotten. It was even worse with some of the bigger cars. Also, they seemed to be having one strike after another, even worse than with the other companies in the UK at the time.

    I don’t see that much similarity with today’s GM. GM has decent products. The plants are modern, and the quality is decent.

  94. pedro fernandez Says:

    Honestly, if I had to choose a domestic brand for my next car purchase, I would prefer GM over the other 2, I just don’t trust all these Ford turbos and their double clutch trannys, as far as Chrysler, they just have nothing that appeals to me in small car.

  95. cwolf Says:

    @ #90 The SS is a 4 door family car. Geesh!!!

  96. cwolf Says:

    The Opel Adam already has pre-order sales of over 20,000 and most from the germans. Sounds like a good way to start, to me!

  97. HtG Says:

    90 For Your Consideration; that’s what I thought was so funny 35 years ago! the world needs more pervs, I think. But if you must use odd characters, try searching for ‘special characters’ on your Mac. They’re universal.

    The G. man you say? Oh, you just wait

  98. Feldman Says:

    If you had to choose only among the so-called “domestics” (most of which are not even made in the USA, let alone have high US content)

    Then a few stand out.

    1. The Chevy Cruze. It has been a stellar success, and it figures, it sold half a million in a very short time already, looks conservative but high-quality, and 100 times better than the Dodge Fart (oops, Dart). Don’t get its lame hybrid, get the gas or the diesel (later)

    2. The Ford Fusion. Stellar looks, esp if they are in the right color, I test drove a grey hybrid, a terrible color, which had a black satin or whatever cloth inside which was awful. Get the damned leather, don’t be cheapskates. AND don’t get the hybrid, they had to ruin its trunk (that’s what I drove. Unacceptable) and you will not get the 47 MPG, but 39 (I got.. 30 in the short test drive)! BTW thanks FOrd, they gave me a $50 Am Ex gift certificate to bother test driving it.

    3. ANY big, 120″ wheelbase Chrysler, 300, CHallenger or Charger! Great looks, the only domestic sedan, even incl Caddys and Lincolns, which has understood that to be taken seriously you need RWD AND a Looong WHeelbase. 120″ is close to S class, 7 or A8 terrirory (the regular length versions)

    4. If you need an SUV, get the Equinox or the Terrain if the fake Hummer looks appeal to you. I don’t like the new Escape, nor did i like its boxy predecessor. The Ford Edge though looks good, but I have not considered it seriously.


    2. The

  99. Feldman Says:

    pedro fernandez Says:
    February 16th, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    “Just look at how few BMW 3 and 5 series are sold with manuals, even the M’s are now automatics.”

    BMWs auto transmissions, even the older 5-sp ones, are so outstanding, (plus even as early as in the 90s, they had this feature where you can ‘lock’ the current gear when you accel or decelerate, or can go up or down a gear simply pushing the “+” or the “-” button, making it essentially a clutchless manual, there is little need for the manual any more.

    Things have changed greatly over the last 25 or even 15 years in transmissions.

    It used to be that the manual had all the advantages, it was about $1k cheaper AND provided both better economy AND better acceleration when you needed it.

    But the autos of the time were very inferior compared to the autos today. I can remember a Ford Countour rental I had to drive in Phoenix in 1999, which must have had a 3-speed auto, it felt so terrible.

    And with the advent of the 7 and 8 speed autos, you can have the best of both worlds, stellar economy at high speed in 7th or 8th gear and great acceleration in 2nd and 3rd.

  100. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Cruze is not sold as a “lame hybrid.” That is the Malibu, and some Buicks that you are thinking of. I agree, though, the the mild hybrid doesn’t improve the mpg nearly enough to justify the price premium, at least in the Malibu.

    If you do a lot of city driving and care about gas mileage with the Fusion, you SHOULD at least “run the numbers” on price vs mpg for the hybrid, if the trunk will serve your purposes. It won’t get 47 mpg in normal driving, but it will get 50% better than the other versions in city driving.

  101. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Here’s CR’s take on the Tesla S in some cold weather driving:


    The article pretty well tells what to expect. It doesn’t get the 300 mile claimed range, but, if you learn how to use the readouts, you should be able to avoid calling the flat bed very often. The “S” is by far the best pure electric car on the market, but it is, or course, pricey.

  102. Feldman Says:

    #99 1. One of my colleagues, has a “Cruze Eco”. I believe this is also a very “mild hybrid” like in the case of the “Malibu Eco”.

    That is what i referred to as a “lame Hybrid”, which I am not impressed by at all, lousy MPG AND you sacrifice your *useful* trunk space (the fusion does not even have a flat trunk floor! really idiotic design)

    The bulky Cmax Hybrid looks less sleek than the Prius (if that’s possible) and has far, far inferior MPG.

    You are far better off with a non-hybrid Diesel if you want fuel economy, than with these Ford alleged 47 Hybrids who average 39 intead!

    While Hyundai admitted to cheating on the EPA MPG calc by a measly MPG so it can claim 40 MPG, FOrd did not cheat, but it is the idiotic,. voo doo methods that the EPA uses to “adjust” the raw MPGs John referred to the other time, that are not only grossly inaccurate, they are utterly biased against Diesels and (still, even after the 2008 revision) in favor of Hybrids.

    If I needed a hybrid, I’d get the current non-plug-in prius. If you want fuel economy, you really can’t beat it with the awkward looking Volt, the Leaf, or the Prius’s competition, all of which together sell less copies than ths excellent Prius by itself.

  103. Feldman Says:

    #99 Even if you do a lot of city miles, you still should n ot even bother with the Ford or other Hybrids, just get the prius, or, if you hwav time to waste, or curiosity, do the math and prove to yourself that the Prius is far superior MPG wise AND has more useful cargo space than the idiotic-shaped trunk of the Fusion Hybrid.

  104. Feldman Says:

    BTW I am not interested in any Hybrid or EV, I do very few city miles with my main auto and even fewer with a small car with low miles (but 20+ years old) we use in the summer home.

  105. Feldman Says:

    But still the current $4 gas prices really bug me. It seems we make an error of perception, erroneously thinking that today’s worthless dollars have anything in common with the far stronger dollars of the 80s and even the 90s.

    If you realize the true value (or lack of) the $, then you are more receptive of the $4 gas (really $1.20 in 1982 dollars) or the $30k average transaction price of a new car today (I paid $7,300 for a brand new very fuel efficient domestic (Opel clone) back then) with a 5-sp manual and very few options.

  106. Feldman Says:

    #100 Thanks for the post, I just read it but waa rather disappointed, it was not a well-organized study like CR usually does.

    The Tesla is an impressive vehicle but it is prices in S-class Territory and I don’t think it has S-class luxury levels. There is some material in the Tesla S dash that looks like the fake woods of muscle cars in the 70s. If it is real wood, it does not look as good as it should.

    It is a big risk to buy such a car from a company that does not even have 1% of the experience of established Automakers who have made cars for over a century.

    (then there is the extra risk that Tesla will not make it and will go broke. And this may happen not only if Tesla itself is unprofitable, but also if some of its suppliers go broke!)

    As for CR, it should do a methodical series of runs at temperatures different by 5 or 10 degrees and give us an entire range-temp curve, instead of a few numbers at random temps. It is good at that sort of thing and I encourage them to do it.

    The Tesla S may work on the west coast between LA and an Diego and Santa Barbara, esp if they plant a few recharging stations along the way. also between LA and Las Vegas, and LA and SF later. But again, the buyer should have a different car for long trips, family vacations etc…

  107. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The Cruze Eco is not a mild hybrid. It has the 1.4 turbo, and the car is lightened up a little, and it has some special aero tweaks. It is sold with both a 6-speed manual and an automatic, but the manual is the one that gets the 40+ mpg highway rating.

    The Malibu “eAssist” is the mild hybrid. That system is used in some Buicks, but is not used in the Cruze.


  108. Kit Gerhart Says:

    re: 91,
    For anyone who might be interested, here is a DW video of the Opel Adam. It seems reasonably positive to me:


  109. G.A.Branigan Says:

    Some years ago we had several discussions on here about the batteries,range,and diminished capacity due to weather,running the heater or ac etc.Then there was a guest on Autoline,some lady if I remember.Anyways she was some sort of expert on the subject and if I remember correctly she said that after extensive testing that proved that the batteries would be okay,no loss of range/power.I think that was the jist of that particular show anyways.It seems she wasn’t so right after all.

  110. HtG Says:

    I guess it’s important for Musk to fight back hard in the media, because from what I saw at the mall, those posh old birds wandering into the store didn’t know much about the car at all. They’re not like car enthusiasts, so a vigorous fight with the NYT may be the way make an impression on them.

  111. Kit Gerhart Says:

    When the GM EV1 was leased, back in the 90′s, I’m pretty sure it was available only in warm weather areas. I suspect that was partly because even the lead-acid batteries it used lose capacity when cold, but maybe more importantly, cabin heat using resistance elements takes a huge amount of power.

  112. pedro fernandez Says:

    Why is anyone surprised about battery performance suffering due to cold weather, I still remember those mornings below 20 degrees and how hard it was to start the car, and how many cars needed jump starting because the cold really affected batteries unless they were pretty new. Plus batteries just did not last terribly long.

  113. Feldman Says:


    you are right. I was confused by GM’s poor labeling of both mild hybrids and non-hybrids as “ecos”.

  114. ColoradoKid Says:

    Doing Business in the 21st Century ;

    ( the Bernie Ecclestone method )


    To sum up . Viewer numbers down a bit ? Solution ? Make it Pay for View and charge more for it ! Yeah ….. that’ll work

    Sounds like Bernie’s getting his business cues from the automotive business of late .


    Pedro – 111 – No one thats spent even a moments time reading up on Li batteries specifically or any battery in general is in the least bit surprised …

    An interesting article showed up this weekend ( I think it was on Jalopnik ) showing how planning a trip in an E/V today ( TESLA S specifically ) takes as much if not more work than doing so back in the dawn of E/V’s …. e.g. the nineteen teens .

    Yeah we’ve come such a long way in the development of the E/V . More like SSDD with more junk on them to break


  115. Feldman Says:


    I don’t know who that “lady” was that said that batteries don’t perform differently in cold vs warm weather, but if she did, she does not have a clue what she is talking about.

    WHich does not totally surprise me, seeing who they choose for VPs at certain GM divisions these days. (obviously with criteria totally different than competence and auto literacy)

  116. Feldman Says:

    HtG Says:
    February 17th, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    “I guess it’s important for Musk to fight back hard in the media, ”

    He appears way too defensive to me. And by using the logs to counter the NYT guy, he revealed (unintentionally) that perhaps you will not have a whole lot of privacy if you buy a Tesla.

  117. ColoradoKid Says:

    Feldman – Get used to Musk’s antics . Its all to do with the reality he lives in wherein ;

    No matter what the facts – how well proven the claims – how scientific the data – regardless of how many engineers and scientists can prove otherwise ….

    If Elon Musk says its true …. then it is . End of Story

    e.g. The man is the ultimate in delusional ego maniacal automotive despots …. and needs to be sent back to the Vapor Ware reality he came out of .. not to mention be ‘ Unplugged ‘ from the US Tax Payers lifeline he and all his ventures subsist on ..

    Oh and here’s a hint ( look it up to confirm ) and an answer to Kit’s earlier question to me …

    Elon Musk DID NOT create PayPal nor was he even a major contributor either technology or marketing wise … he was one of the three … and the least of which I might add …. and was simply fortunate enough to of been in the right place at the right time

  118. T. Bejma Says:


    No one said it was a GM person who was the battery expert on the show, but you just have to get your digs in, huh?

    So what makes you an expert on automotive VP’s?

  119. T. Bejma Says:

    The Musk story on PayPal…

    “In March 2000, X.com [created by E. Musk] bought a company called Confinity, which had started an Internet money-transfer presence called PayPal. PayPal was originally set up to let users of handheld personal digital assistants, or PDAs, transfer money. It had only been in business a few months when X.com acquired it, and Musk believed that its online-transfer technology, which was known as “P2P” for “person-to-person,” had a promising future. He and Harris did not agree, and Harris resigned from X.com in May 2000. Five months later, Musk announced that X.com would abandon its original online bank and instead concentrate on turning itself into the leading global payment transfer provider. The X.com name was dropped in favor of PayPal.”

    Read more: http://www.notablebiographies.com/news/Li-Ou/Musk-Elon.html#b#ixzz2LGPbI2JE

  120. T. Bejma Says:

    Looks like there is still a possibility for the Chevy SS Wagon (Nomad?) coming to the U.S.A…


  121. Feldman Says:

    I sure am far more of an expert on Automotive VPs than you and your Cobalt will ever be.

    BTW, very predictable knee-jerk reaction..LOL. DO you really think that you have one ounce of credibility?

    You shot yourself in the foot, when you publicly admitted in these forums, that GM actually pays goons to go to auto forums and cheerlead for it.

    Do you really think you would still have a Job at GM if you became honest for a change and admitted to even a dozen of the hundreds of Monumental Blunders GM has committed over the years (and keeps at it now!)

    Blunders that changed it from the (by far!) dominant automaker in the US market with a 60% market share as late as in the late 60s or 70s,

    to just a bit player with less than…. 18% share???

    Give me a break.

  122. Feldman Says:

    (#120 obviously was in reply to TJ Bejma’s 117).

  123. Feldman Says:


    Why don’t you leave the silly SS and import the excellent CRUZE hatchback or wagon????

    Ten times more people will buy it.

  124. Feldman Says:

    In defense of Elon Musk, he could be ten times smarter than that Dan Akerson clueless person, who is RUINING GM…. AGAIN!

  125. Feldman Says:

    That’s what you get when you select as your CEO not somebody like the Great Mullaly, who not only is razor-sharp smart, but had an extensive MANUFACTURING background, with some… Phone operator exec like Akerson.

  126. Feldman Says:

    Or did the “great” Obama and his 36 “Czars” select him for u?

  127. Feldman Says:

    OK..got it out of my system.. sorry for the multiple posts, but at least they were one and two-liners, not 600 word essays like that Ms. (or Mr?) VmChris likes to post.

  128. T. Bejma Says:


    Yes, I would still have a job at GM because my job is as an Engineer and has nothing to do with what I say on a website.

    There have been several blunders that I am not one bit afraid of admitting, however, I do not live in the past and I see everyday how we are learning from them and changing for the better.

    The people that GM pays to go on forums are there for customer support and not pushing product. Do some investigation before you type.

  129. Feldman Says:

    #127 Well, I’m glad you will still have your job there. I’d hate to also pay for your unemployment!

    PS My time is far too valuable than to spy on GM’s marketing whizzes and/or the goons they send to the forums.

  130. Feldman Says:

    And BTW, in case you think I have any kind of anti-GM bias, my first car I bought new, and the only car I bought new since, was indeed a GM, from one of its deceased divisions (Pontiac), an ancient relative of your Cobalt too, but in 5-speed manual fuel efficient form, and I kept it for 11 years until it died at the early age of 65k miles.

    I still believe GM should have killed buick and not pontiac, and the current failure of Buick sales (despite the import of all these renadged Opel Styling exercises) prove my point

  131. Feldman Says:

    #129 rebadged, not renadged, Opels.

  132. G.A.Branigan Says:

    “Crucially though, he didn’t say the same thing for the Sportwagon, saying there is space for it to be sold at a premium above the sedan, which would make it more viable”.

    If it is RWD,I don’t think the market will be here for it.Yes,we could use a wagon,but most soccar moms would prefer fwd,or awd.And if it’s priced higher then the Impala sedan 9which it should be really)that will work against it too.Jmho.

    As for Buick,they should have let it go and kept Pontiac,no question about that.I just don’t understand GM’s leadership,or lack there of.It’s almost as if they are ‘shaving points’,ya know?

  133. Feldman Says:

    #114 who needs a wagon with 415 HP? It’s a totally silly idea. Families need a wagon with 50 MPG!

  134. Feldman Says:

    (And that would be the CRUZE DIESEL Hatch or wagon. I bet it can make Actual, not that “EPA” crap, 50+ HWY miles. Even if the fools at the EPA rate it as “42″ or whatever.

  135. T. Bejma Says:

    “Feldman Says:
    February 18th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    I sure am far more of an expert on Automotive VPs than you and your Cobalt will ever be.”

    Answering a question with an opinion still doesn’t answer the question…

    Making fun of someone’s vehicle, yeah, that will get you a lot of credibility…

  136. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I agree that no one needs a wagon with 415 hp, but a few people want them. A college friend has a Magnum SRT-8.

    As far as the SS, if they put the Corvette engine in all of them, it will be too much of a niche car, and will be too pricey, most likely $40K+. They should sell it with the 3.6, and with the 5.3 truck engine, and at Charger/300 prices. Cars like that would be a nice addition to the U.S. market, especially if they sell the wagon here.

  137. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Feldman, do you still have your “7″?

  138. Feldman Says:


    Of course a few people want them, I doubt GM will make a dime selling only a few, but it may use it as some kind of “halo” coolmobile.

    But these things are not mutually exclusive. They can offer the SS wagon if they think it is wise to do so, and the Diesel Cruze hatch or wagon because 200,000 others want one.

  139. Feldman Says:

    #137 My ‘main’ car is now 15 years old, 138,500 miles, driven winter and summer on all season tires in the midwest,never a problem in snow or ice despite the RWD, should give you the answer.

  140. Feldman Says:

    #136 the Charger-Challenger-300 look much better than the Impala, largely due to their smaller overhangs and much longer wheelbase, and would be my choice if I had to make one between the two

  141. Feldman Says:


    1. it is the Socratic method, look it up.

    2. I already mentioned that the only car I ever bothered to buy new was an ancestor of your Cobalt SS.

    So why would I make too much fun of it? It was crude and basic transport, or the same with less fuel efficiency and more pretend sportiness in your case.

    I liked my J2000 when I had it, then when I got my next car, a used Accord coupe 5-speed and sat in, it was day and night in terms of quality and refinement.

    And don’t forget the J2000s god-awful manual 5-speed, very crude to put it in 1st or 2nd gear, who made those pieces of junk? In comparison, the Accord’s was, yes, “like butter”

  142. T. Bejma Says:


    Yeah, still not getting it. Using the Socratic method you are supposed to be asking questions, not stating opinion…

    Pretend sportiness? 0-60 in 5.9 (stock – 5.0 and 13.5 second quarter mile in my modified car) will beat most cars made today.

  143. Feldman Says:

    #142 YOU are the one who really does not get it, if you believe performance just means 0-60. DOn’t make me laugh. the CObalt SS will never be an M3. Have you ever driven an M3?

    PS The Cobalt does not even have RWD. Please. This is NOT a serious vehicle as no other FWD little car with a nig engine will never be a serious sports vehicle. Give me a break and go buy a new Corvette. Or at least a used one. If you have to keep it within Chevy.

  144. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I think Isuzu made those transmissions.