AD #1479 – Pick-Up Truck MPG Comparo, Autonomous Ass-Hauling, 2015 F-150 Pros & Cons
October 15th, 2014 at 12:07pm
Runtime: 9:09
- Tesla Could Slash Battery Costs
- Pick-Up Truck MPG Comparo
- Ford & NextEnergy LED Challenge
- Kiekert Creates LED Door Latch
- Autonomous Ass-Hauling
- 2015 Ford F-150 – Seat Time
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Tesla could cut battery costs by $12,000, LEDs are starting to show up everywhere on cars, and diesels easily beat out lightweighting and downsizing.
CHEAPER BATTERIES
Several years ago the U.S. Department of Energy set a goal for EV battery makers to hit a cost of $125 per kilowatt hour. No one is anywhere close to that goal. Some estimate that Tesla is around $240 and MIT estimates that most EV batteries cost over $400 per kilowatt hour. But in an interview I did this past weekend with Elon Musk, he reiterated his prediction that his gigafactory will drive down costs to $100 per kilowatt hour. That would put the cost of Tesla’s biggest 85 kWh battery pack at about $8,500. That’s still pretty pricey, but would be $12,000 cheaper than they cost right now.
DIESELS UBER ALLES
I’m on the jury for the North American Car & Truck of the Year awards and this week most of the jury is testing the vehicles that made the short list. We all meet in Hell, Michigan. (I’m not making that up, and we all love telling everyone that we’re going to Hell.) Yesterday I spent my time driving pickup trucks on a 12.2 mile course that includes a good variety of driving situations. And the fuel economy numbers that I generated are very interesting. First up was a Ford F-150 4×4 Supercrew with the 3.5 liter V-6 Ecoboost engine. It delivered 17.3 miles per gallon on my test route. Then I got in a GMC Canyon Crew Cab All Terrain with the 3.6 liter V-6 and got 18.9. Next up was a Ford F-150 with the new 2.7 liter V-6 which also got 18.9. Then I got in a Chevy Colorado 4×4 with the 2.5 liter 4-cylinder which delivered 22.1. So that prompted me to try out a Ram 1500 diesel that beat them all at 24.5 miles per gallon, or 11% better than the 4-cylinder Chevy. So in this war of boosting pickup fuel economy it sure looks like diesels handily beat out lightweighting or downsizing.
GET THE LEDS OUT
Ford and NextEnergy are challenging suppliers to create advanced LEDs. They’re looking for lightweight LEDs, LEDs that can be integrated into car structures, recyclable LEDs and more. And you can win money doing this. Prizes from the Michigan Economic Development Corporation and NextEnergy can be as much as $40,000.
KIEKERT CREATES LED LATCH
And speaking of LEDs, German supplier Kiekert has created a door latch with an LED integrated into it. The idea is to replace the warning light located on the side door paneling. This may not seem like a big deal but it’s packaged more efficiently, reduces weight and assembly time. Plus the LED uses less energy than a conventional light and customers can choose different colors.
AUTONOMOUS ASS-HAULING
We’ve seen plenty of autonomous driving video, but those vehicles always look like they’re driving at a snails pace. Not this time. Audi just tested an autonomous RS 7 at a racetrack in Germany that hit speeds of 190 miles-per-hour. The vehicle was only given a map of the track with left and right boundaries and it had to determine the proper line for itself. Audi believes the first piloted driving systems could come to market in just a few years if authorities allow the self-driving features.
Coming up next, we’ll share how the new 2015 F-150 is better than the competition and where it still lags behind.
2015 FORD F-150
The 2015 Ford F-150 is a full size pickup that competes against other trucks like the Chevy Silverado, Ram 1500 and Toyota Tundra. The first example I drove was a XLT 4X2 SuperCrew that was priced a little over $42,000, including destination charges. My second ride was in a Lariat 4X4 SuperCrew with a price tag of over $51,500. Both trucks were powered by the all-new 2.7L V6 EcoBoost engine mated to a 6-speed automatic transmission. No EPA ratings have been released for the new F-150 yet, but I’ll share my observed fuel economy in just a moment.
For nearly a year now we have been reporting on the aluminum-intensive 2015 F-150 and during that time I’ve wondered, as I’m sure many of you have, what it’s like driving the new and lighter truck. We’ve heard from Ford executives and engineers how much of a difference the aluminum body makes and I finally got my chance to put those claims to the test. It was difficult to discern any difference during acceleration, but the handling and braking is where this truck really shines. In fact, I think it’s better than any of its competitors in those areas. In turns it felt nice and planted thanks in part to the reduced weight but also to some new suspension tricks, like moving the rear shocks outside of the frame rails and mounting them in opposite directions. The brake response was impressive, slowing or coming to a stop quicker than I would have expected.
But let’s move along to what moves the truck along down the road. The 3.5L V6 EcoBoost and 5.0L V8 engines that are currently available carry over to the new model. There’s also a 3.5L V6 non-turbo engine, but the real highlight is the brand new 2.7L V6 EcoBoost option. And if you’re wondering what the truck drives like with this engine, let me tell you it’s pretty amazing, I was thoroughly impressed. It’s very smooth and with 325 horsepower and 375 pound-feet of torque there’s more than enough power on hand to pass slow moving traffic. While at these vehicle events I always try to drive like I would in the real world, getting up to speed in a pretty economical manner and only accelerating hard when needed. That netted me an average fuel economy of 22.7 miles-per-gallon with little stop and go driving in the XLT 4X2 SuperCrew model, but my more heavy-footed driving partner only returned around 15-16 miles-per-gallon.
There’s significant changes to the interior and content in the new truck as well. The dash layout has been reworked and I like it better than the current model. To me it just seems more robust. A much larger sunroof lets in loads of natural light and a seamless sliding rear window that can be opened and closed with the touch of a button. New technology includes a 360-degree camera view to aid parking as well as a new rearview camera feature that helps when hooking up a trailer, just to name a few. The rear tailgate now opens with just the touch of a button on the key fob and the step assist is now housed inside of the tailgate rather than being mounted on top.
Overall it’s a really good truck and I think it only really lacks behind GM’s full-size trucks in refinement because the new motor and body mounts in those trucks really make a big difference, but I can’t wait to see how the actual customers respond.
Thanks for that report Sean. And check out the Seat Time section on our website because we have a ton more information about the all-new F-150 that was not in the video.
(Full Seat Time review will be available later today.)
Dont’ forget that Mat Haggart, the chief engineer of the all-new Acura TLX will be here with one of his cars in the studio for Autoline After Hours. They’ve done some pretty interesting things with this car and here’s your chance to get a first hand view.
But that wraps up today’s report. thanks for watching, we’ll see you tomorrow.
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Comments (35)
October 15th, 2014 at 12:24 pm
Diesels are the way to go for power/economy/and longevity.Overstuffing small displacement gassers will get expensive in the long run,and might end up hurting the used truck market for those oem’s.And,I may be wrong here,but doesn’t ford recommend using premium gas for towing with the egoboosts?
October 15th, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Great review Sean!
Once Tesla is able to product lower cost (not cheaper) batteries for their vehicles and other OEM’s the movement towards electrification will become move attractive. The only other factor that may disrupt this movement is the further
improvement and adoption of diesel technology.
October 15th, 2014 at 12:32 pm
So, here is a question for you: with all the work that has been done on Diesel in Europe over the last 20 years you would think that turn key solutions are on the shelf. What is holding up the diesel bandwagon?
October 15th, 2014 at 12:32 pm
LED’s done right, I’m a fan of, some of the ‘treatments’ I’ve seen though almost look like neon, which on a vehicle (to me) starts looking a little gaudy. I’m all for the LED technology (but keep it clean and tidy).
Diesel fuel (inherently) has approximately 15% more energy per volume than gasoline so it isn’t hard to believe that economy-wise it can do better (than gasoline); problem is that the price differential almost reflects this same ratio, so a lot of times it is ‘net’ zero (for savings).
October 15th, 2014 at 12:33 pm
@ Lex: I don’t think so.I believe that some folks,(such as myself) are predisposed toward diesels,while others lean more towards electric.For me,I need the range and the towing power/economy that a diesel gives.
October 15th, 2014 at 12:40 pm
I would like to see a comparo between Ecoboost and small diesel with a full load in the bed or towing a trailer at maximum rating. Trying to figure out real world fuel economy of these things when empty is like watching Gilligan’s Island on an HDTV. Doesn’t really make sense.
October 15th, 2014 at 12:49 pm
@John Mc.
How did you measure the mpg of the pickups? Did you use, and believe the on-board readouts, or was calibrated instrumentation installed on the vehicles for the test? TIA for info.
October 15th, 2014 at 1:11 pm
My wife and I purchased a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0 L Diesel option. We have been getting 30 MPG on trips, and around 24-25 around town driving. This vehicle has Gobs of power!
October 15th, 2014 at 1:19 pm
Tesla
I hope Musk broke out how much of his battery cost is accounted for by favorable tax breaks.
October 15th, 2014 at 1:29 pm
If the real cost of batteries comes down to $100/kWh, EV’s in general will become much more affordable, and battery cost will be a non-issue for hybrids. A regular Prius battery is only 1.3 kWh, so would cost $130.
October 15th, 2014 at 1:41 pm
@ Wayne: Climbs the hills pretty easy too doesn’t it.My last diesel was an 06 Liberty Limited with the VM 2.8L crd.Easily 32mpg hwy,and high 20′s around town,”with gobs of power”..
October 15th, 2014 at 2:01 pm
Most trucks are running around town with an empty box and no trailer. So, I believe the f.e. should be reported that way. Then do a confirmatory capability test for power to handle a load/trailer.
For more serious trailer tow users, I suspect they are in the 2500/250 and 3500/350 class.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:15 pm
@ Drew:Not all towing needs a hd truck to do the job.In fact in most cases any hd truck would be,and is for my needs mega overkill.A 1/2 ton pickup tows a 20 ft camper with no problem,other then the camper itself is a comparative lightweight brick,and that gobbles up the gas.Take the same size pickup with a small diesel and it does get much better towing mpg,that is a fact.Unhook the trailer and enjoy even better mpg with a lot less downshifting going up hills,which I have to do all the time here in my state.Also,any diesel offering is as an option,not mandatory.I will gladly pay the extra cost for a diesel in the Colorado,no problem at all.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:56 pm
Htg. Lets ask the oil company’s then to do the same with the billions they receive from the U.S. federal government
October 15th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
TTAC has a piece on Saudis lowering the price of crude to compete with the US, if this brings down the cost of gas, then I’m all for it.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:25 pm
14 I don’t know how one would calculate the value of the 5th Fleet stationed in Bahrain. But I agree with your point, let Musk grasp any advantage he can.
(Hi Elon, when will deliveries of the new car begin?)
——
15 Took those ttac turkeys long enough to cover this story, Pedro. Did they say an intention of the Saudis is use low prices to shut in our fracking production?
October 15th, 2014 at 3:26 pm
@ GA #13. I thoroughly agree the only engine for frequent hauling/towing is a diesel. But policy makers in CA and DC don’t understand your world and continue to create regulations that choke the life out of compression and ignition engines (all pun intended).
October 15th, 2014 at 3:27 pm
16 inre 15 cont’d
Did I mention I just adore free market lovers?
October 15th, 2014 at 3:32 pm
#6 RumNCoke:
Although the new F150 is not available to most testers yet, and (I agree) mpg is just one factor in why one chooses one vehicle over another, here are a couple preliminary ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1mBaEu-DVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAjEkrS-HWs
I guess that it all depends on one’s use/needs. I know a guy that bought a Ram HD (diesel) because he tows regularly. But he also puts on a lot of miles (not towing).
It turns out that he really didn’t calculate what the percentage of miles that he was actually towing (before purchasing the HD) and after about a year and half, he traded it on a EB V6 F150 (due to referral experiences).
He still can tow and get the job done but his savings in fuel overall was a significant portion of his monthly payment. That was almost 2 yrs ago, and the last time I talked with him, he was very happy. He is one of those people that keeping more money in his pocket – is important to him – and doesn’t care what type of engine powers his truck as long as it gets the job done.
Personally, I think brand loyalty will still play a huge role but there will be conquest purchasing. Who knows in what direction.
There is one other factor. Unless the refineries convert to more diesel production domestically, if too many buy diesel power, and the demand rises too significantly – it is going to be tough to calculate pay back as it will remain at a premium price.
But then, some guys are just partial to diesels and fore go those considerations (including long-term maintenance costs). Just like John did not disclose what the trucks that he compared cost in purchase price, comparos often leave lots of important factors out.
For decades, one manufacturer has one-upped another in one factor (like HP, or towing, etc) – but more often than not, it is the overall “package” that determines the purchase – IME.
**********************************************
#16 Htg said,”. . .those ttac turkeys . . .”
HTHT (how true, how true)
October 15th, 2014 at 3:43 pm
The CAFE standards favor diesels, since mpg is what counts for the calculations, even though diesel has about 13% more energy per gallon than gas, and probably takes about 13% more crude per gallon to make.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:50 pm
15, If the price of crude is coming down, it seems time to raise fuel taxes to help fix the crumbling infrastructure. The bridge I’ll be on crossing the Ohio River in a couple weeks is kind of scary. It was found to have the same “deficiencies” as the one that fell in the river in Minnesota a while back.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:51 pm
You get the same amount of carbon dioxide out of the carbon in either fuel, no? It’s the compression that makes diesel more powerful. I wonder if it takes more energy at the refinery to make gasoline, which is cracked(they break the long chain hydrocarbon), than to make the distillate, diesel. The energy used to refine fuel just isn’t simple enough to excite people. Still, and sorry Kit, I can’t help wanting a red Colorado just to drive around in. Me like
October 15th, 2014 at 3:53 pm
20 You’re aware there’s a midterm election going on right now? And then after that, like pronto, the general?
October 15th, 2014 at 4:17 pm
21, Taking the burning of the fuel alone, diesels should better than gassers, as far as CO2 emission. The longer chain molecule of diesel fuel has a higher carbon/hydrogen ratio than gasoline, but properly sized diesels are efficient enough to more than make up for it. By properly sized, I mean VW TDI, Benz E250, GC and Ram 3.0, etc. The diesels in the HD pickups are way too large to be properly sized, except when towing 10,000 pounds.
I would think more energy would go into making gas than diesel, with the cracking, etc., but I can’t find info on that.
October 15th, 2014 at 4:21 pm
22, I wouldn’t mind being seen in a red Colorado, if they would make it with a regular cab. I’m old fashioned, but to me, a pickup truck has 2 doors, and one bench seat. Well, I’m ok with 2 bucket seats, especially in “smaller” trucks.
October 15th, 2014 at 4:27 pm
#25
The Extended Cab is not much bigger than a regular cab and you get some inside storage for golf clubs, luggage, groceries, small children, etc…
October 15th, 2014 at 4:27 pm
I can’t help but feel that Colorado is going to put a fire under buyers. I feeling it.
October 15th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
25 judging from the AAH show on the Colorado, it’s refinement that is the sweet spot for buyers. I’ve also seen TB’s link where the thing goes down a suburban street, and that looks really right.
October 15th, 2014 at 4:32 pm
@7. Kit, I zeroed out the mpg readout on each vehicle before I set out and took a reading at the end of the route. This is not the most scientific approach, but I believe that the results are note worthy. And this is how most “real world” customers will measure their fuel economy.
October 15th, 2014 at 5:51 pm
29, Thanks, John.
Most of the readouts on cars I’ve had have been “optimistic,” based on checking multiple fillups and dividing it out. The ones on my Prius and MINI are both about 5% high, I’m sure intentionally. The odometers on both cars are accurate, within 1%. An exception to the optimistic readouts is my ’96 Corvette, whose readout is actually slightly low. They probably figured people don’t buy Corvettes for gas mileage, so they didn’t deliberately cheat with the readout.
October 16th, 2014 at 8:57 am
I wish you’d return to your previous page format. I can’t get the ‘Show transcript’ link to work and have tried two different browsers. Why change in the first place?
October 16th, 2014 at 10:09 am
31, You should get the transcript by clicking/touching “continue reading” for the show you want after hitting the blue “autoline daily” at the top of the main autoline page. At least it works for me, whether using a Samsung or Chrome browser on an Android phone or tablet, or Safari on a Mac.
October 16th, 2014 at 11:00 am
I wonder about insurance costs. Will it be higher on an alum. truck?
October 16th, 2014 at 11:44 am
John,
How come when you tout diesels, as with your truck MPG comparo, you never mention that the price of a gallon of diesel is at least 20% higher than 87 octane? I won’t even mention the higher initial cost of the diesel motor…
Thanks – love your show.
October 16th, 2014 at 6:53 pm
“Autonomous A** Hauling”? Really, Autoline? Was that truly necessary? Are you so base? Clean it up, folks.