AD #2271 – Saudi Oil Company Backs Achates Engine, AVs Produce a Lot of Data, Mazda Sees Opportunity for Rotary Engine
January 18th, 2018 at 11:54am
Runtime: 7:47
0:28 Achates Claims Engine Delivers 37 MPG in F-150
1:33 GAC’s Trumpchi Brand Not for the U.S.
2:51 AVs Produce Unprecedented Amount of Data
3:38 Mazda Still Sees Opportunities for Rotary Engine
4:59 Big Truck Sales Soar in America
5:54 PSA Outlines EV, AV & U.S. Plans
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On today’s show… PSA outlines plans to return to the U.S. and electrify its entire line-up… big truck sales continue to soar in the U.S… and Mazda still isn’t giving up on the rotary engine. All that and more coming right up on Autoline Daily.
This is Autoline Daily, your source for the latest news in the global automotive industry.
SAUDI OIL COMPANY HELPS PROMOTE ACHATES ENGINE
Well, here’s something we didn’t expect to see at the Detroit auto show. Aramco, the Saudi Arabian oil company has a display on the floor. And it’s promoting the Achates engine, mounted in a Ford F-150. It’s a 3-cylinder engine that uses 2 opposed pistons in each cylinder, so it’s actually a 3-cylinder, 6-piston engine. It also has a compression ratio of 18:1, does not have any spark plugs and runs on gasoline. Achates claims that in the F-150 it will deliver 37 miles to the gallon, combined, with highway fuel economy around 42 MPGs. And that’s based on the EPA test cycle. Achates says a major north American OEM is interested in the the 2.7 liter engine, which delivers 270 horsepower and 480 pound feet of torque. How interesting that with so much talk about electrification, here’s a Saudi Arabian oil company promoting an American-design that could be a breakthrough with the internal combustion engine.
TRUMPCHI BRAND NOT FOR THE U.S.
Speaking of the Detroit auto show, here’s an amusing juxtaposition of floor displays. Chinese automaker GAC is located right across the aisle from GMC. GAC, GMC– gee–only one letter apart. And the GAC stand is full of SUVs that will probably be priced at least $5,000 cheaper than anything from GMC. Just to add to the confusion, GAC has a van called the GM8. It also sells cars under a brand name called Trumpchi, which you can see at the end of the headlights. But GAC just announced it will not use the Trumpchi brand in the American market. Smart move. People who hate President Trump would never buy a car with that name. And the people who love Trump will never buy a Chinese car.
Still to come… Mazda says there’s still life left in the rotary engine.
THAT’S A LOT OF DATA
Want to know how much data a car can generate? Twitter’s 270 million users generate about 100 gigabytes of data a day. But a single autonomous car produces 3,000-times that, about 30 terabytes of data a day. But where do you store all this data? That’s a dilemma that automakers face, according to Wards Auto. Some of that data will be deleted, but automakers will have to hold on to a portion of data if only for liability reasons. Data storage requirements are going to be different for every company, but it is going to take time to figure out how to mine what’s useful and where to put it. And we point this out because there’s going to be a real opportunity to make a lot of money for anyone who figures out how to solve this problem.
ROTARY ENGINE COMEBACK?
Could the rotary engine make a comeback? Mazda’s still not giving up on the idea. Masahiro Moro, the president and CEO of Mazda North America says there’s a lot of opportunity for the engine. He expects a rotary range-extender will be used in Toyota’s e-Palette autonomous concept vehicle it debuted at CES. As Mazda continues to improve efficiency and quality of the engine, it could be used as generator to produce electricity or in fuel cell applications because it would only emit water. But Mazda’s not hanging its hat completely on internal combustion vehicles. Moro says the company is working on its own EV and that it will come to the U.S. around 2020.
Coming up next, Peugeot says Opel engineers will be key in its return to the U.S. market.
BIG TRUCK SALES SOAR
Even though sales of light vehicles declined slightly last month in the American market, big trucks ended the year with a bang. WardsAuto reports that medium and heavy-duty truck sales soared nearly 25% in December in the U.S. Class 4 through 7 were up 6% last month and the segment posted a 7% gain for all of 2017. Sales of the big Class 8 trucks skyrocketed 50% in December but due to a slow start to the year, they were down slightly overall in 2017. Medium and heavy truck sales topped 415,000 units for all of 2017, which is a 3.5% gain compared to 2016. And the story was the same north of the border. Big truck sales in Canada soared 45% in December and overall in 2017 medium and heavy duty sales were up a strong 17%.
PSA OUTLINES EV, AV & U.S. PLANS
It seems like every day, an automaker announces plans to electrify its line-up. Yesterday it was Infiniti and today its French automaker PSA, the parent company of Peugeot and Citroen. According to Reuters, CEO Carlos Tavares announced that by 2025 every model in the PSA Group will have an electric or hybrid variant. He also revealed that by 2030, 80% of its models will have semi-autonomous capabilities and 10% will be fully self-driving. Tavares also shared more details about Peugeot’s return to the U.S. The company is currently offering ride sharing services in the country through its Free2Move app. The next step is to add Peugeot vehicles to the service. And the final step, is to sell Peugeot vehicles in the U.S. created by Opel engineers. PSA acquired the German automaker from General Motors last year and Tavares says the engineers are familiar with U.S. regulations and customer tastes, having worked for GM. And he thinks this will help Peugeot with its return to the American market.
And a quick programming note, there will not be a new Autoline After Hours this afternoon. But John and Gary will be back next Thursday, with some of the best insider talk in the automotive industry.
And if you haven’t done so yet, be sure to check out our coverage of the Detroit auto show. We talked to automakers and suppliers about their latest reveals, newest technology and how new trends are impacting the industry. Look for that on our website or on our YouTube channel.
But that wraps up today’s show, thanks for watching and please join us again tomorrow.
Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com
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Comments (25)
January 18th, 2018 at 12:23 pm
We sold lots of trucks in Canada but they were metric big rigs so it’s not the same.
January 18th, 2018 at 12:39 pm
@1
Metric big rigs also use metric fuel injectors so they are way more efficient
January 18th, 2018 at 12:53 pm
Achates engine sounds almost too good to be true. Maybe big oil is a bit concerned with all this electrification? So raise the bar a little higher making that EV struggle to compete, especially at 480 ftlbs of TQ.
Its no secret what US OEM is interested in this technology seeing how they placed it in an F150.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:00 pm
A bit surprised at the spread in fuel economy on the Achates engine. Assuming the combined is equally split between city and Hwy. The city would be 32 with Hwy 42.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:02 pm
Cheers for the Achates engine design! New methods to achieve better fuel economy is the future of engines. Its good to see someone is moving foward with technology to balance the electric powering of cars and trucks.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
The Achates engine has always sounded intriguing, but after 10+ years with no real evidence that it works, I had about decided that it is vaporware. Maybe we will now find out, with some real money behind the engine.
They claim that it is simple, which it is in come ways, not having a valve train, but having two crankshafts and all of those gears connecting them, and the supercharger, doesn’t seem so simple.
John and Sean, let us know if the truck actually runs, and moves under its own power at the show. If so, what does it sound like? The engine is basically a two stroke triple, so it might sound like a 1970′s Kawasaki 500 bike.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:08 pm
The automakers should look over the NASA program “Big Data” that is tasked with the receiving, storage, and “searchable cataloging” of the space data that is returned to earth. The data program requirements vastly exceed what you are talking about for autos. And it funded by taxpayer money!
January 18th, 2018 at 1:13 pm
I was just reading the comments on yesterdays show debating diesel/ICE range extenders. I was going to ask what you all thought about a small rotary engine for that purpose since there was previous Autoline talk of improving the seals and efficiency of them. Looks like Mazda was already thinking the same thing. The link on my name shows an odd spherical engine proposed for hybrids that could have the generator (rotor & stator) connected directly to the motor element.
That Achates display makes me wonder what’s going on with that OPOC modular engine that was on here a few years ago? (Its also mentioned in my link.)
Looks like people may think outside the box to come up with engines designed around the needs of generators/range extenders rather than the slightly different demands of moving an entire vehicle as more electrics hit the road.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:17 pm
Big data – I can see it opening up big problems. So if the police want to know if you were in the area of a crime will they be able to download the data to use against you ?
January 18th, 2018 at 1:29 pm
Planning a big robbery buzzard? lol
I believe the biggest obstacle for the Achates engine is emissions. Notice the animation doesnt really show the intake and exhaust ports. Being as Kit mentioned basically a two stroke the emissions have always been a problem.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:31 pm
I like to keep my options open :]
January 18th, 2018 at 1:47 pm
#8 A rotary engine should be good for an “occasional use” range extender, in a car like an i3, because rotaries are small and light for their power. They were never very efficient, but if the engine is only used for a few per cent of the car’s driving, that wouldn’t matter much.
January 18th, 2018 at 1:50 pm
OP engines have been in use for decades in ships,and a WWII german bomber that could fly non stop from germany to south america. Not vaporware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq4lp2Lbi10
January 18th, 2018 at 1:54 pm
10 The Achates engine is lubricated without oil in the fuel, so it wouldn’t have one of the emissions issues of a regular two stroke. It seems that overall emissions would depend on how complete the combustion is, and how much NOx the engine would generate. If I understand it right, the supercharger blows air in the ports at one end of the cylinder, purging the exhaust out the other end. Maybe we will find out one of these years.
The concept is interesting, and some of the claims seem valid, especially the low combustion chamber surface area/volume ratio, generally a good thing for thermal efficiency.
January 18th, 2018 at 2:01 pm
#4. Lambo, EPA fuel economy figures are based on 55% city driving, 45% highway.
January 18th, 2018 at 2:08 pm
13, G.A.
Interesting video. I bet there was a lot of noise in that area.
In #6, I didn’t mean vaporware as in not working at all, but in not having any advantage over other engine designs. Generally, if a particular design for something as mature as a gasoline engine is the best, it would have become the “standard” years ago. Surely almost every car company in the world hasn’t been completely wrong for 80 years, in making all of these Otto cycle engines with poppet valves, have they? Maybe we’ll find out.
January 18th, 2018 at 4:20 pm
I like Mazda cars a lot, but I think the company is not thinking straight. As recent as 6 months ago, they were spouting the “no need to even consider electric” line. No sooner than they acknowledge their error and start talking about some electrification than they start thinking their Wankel engine is part of a solution. They have a death wish.
I didn’t know they had so much extra cash. So, which Chinese company does Mazda go to? Who has vehicles almost ready for the NA market that wants an established dealer network? GAC?
January 18th, 2018 at 4:40 pm
I don’t get it with Mazda and Wankel engines. Unless things have changed, their main virtue is small physical size, for their power output. On the other hand, they are thirsty, dirty, and no one knows how to work on them. Also, I’ve heard that they don’t last too long, but that could be bad, or old info.
January 18th, 2018 at 4:51 pm
Base on the info provided on the Achates engine, this could be an ideal engine for marine applications due to a very low center of gravity if the engine were rotated 90 degrees – same as Porsche and Subaru “pancakes.”
As for the Mazda Rotary – “Who Cares?”
Low torque-high RPM design good for one race (if it did not blow the seals). Mazda needs to spend their development money on making sure their SHCCI (?) engine will last – Mazda does not need to waste eng. & development money on the rotary. They cannot afford another flop like the rotary!
January 18th, 2018 at 5:29 pm
@ Kit: The later OP marine diesels were actually pretty quiet. It’s the diesel powered hydro pumps,generators,air compressors etc.I think some of our Coast Guard ice breakers still use the OP’s for main power.
January 18th, 2018 at 10:48 pm
#1 & #2…Up there in Canada they’re soon using metric money. They’re not getting caught up on that Bitcom stuff.
January 19th, 2018 at 8:18 am
#19 Bruce I agree that the rotary engine news just seems like a distraction to keep people talking about Mazda . I mean it has a fan base but reliability and emissions are its greatest issues. It has low thermal efficiency and would be like trying to bring back the carburetor.
January 19th, 2018 at 9:17 am
@19 Bruce. I don’t consider the rotary engine a “flop” at all. Yes, it was very thirsty and quite the emission producer, but it had it’s place. Compact with a lot of HP (no torque) lent itself to smaller sports cars. Was always surprised that Mazda never offered it as a high performance option in the MX-5. I don’t think it would be the engine to power a generator though. We’ll see what the engineers come up with. Remember, it’s the only Japanese car/engine to win overall at Le Mans.
January 19th, 2018 at 9:49 am
A Wankel engine has one main virtue. It is small and light for its lower output. Mazda should not waste their money on it.
January 19th, 2018 at 10:37 am
With no way to oil a rotary’s seals (without introducing polluting hydrocarbons), I don’t see a future for the engine. Mileage and power may be areas of improvement but at this point they are fairly far behind other technologies in economy, power, pollution and longevity, it seems a waste to revisit, at least in the automotive industry.