AD #2702 – Tokyo Auto Show Reveals, How to Convert WLTP to EPA, Analysts Expect Tesla to Lose Money in Q3
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:01pm
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Runtime: 10:12
0:07 Final UAW Contract Results Due Friday
0:20 UAW VP Pleads Guilty
0:47 Analysts Expect Tesla to Lose Money in Q3
1:11 Traffic Deaths Down in U.S.
2:32 FCA Invests Millions to Assemble Battery Packs
3:22 How to Convert WLTP to EPA
4:26 Honda Debuts New Fit/Jazz
5:17 Mazda Unveils MX-30 EV
6:16 Nissan Shows Off Ariya Concept
7:15 Subaru Unveils Levorg Wagon “Prototype”
7:45 Mitsubishi Reveals Two Concepts
8:27 Lexus Unveils LF-30 Concept
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FINAL UAW CONTRACT RESULTS DUE FRIDAY
The strike at GM continues as UAW locals vote on whether or not to approve a new labor contract. Some locals are rejecting it, while others are approving it, but we will not have the final results until 4 pm on Friday.
UAW VP PLEADS GUILTY
Meanwhile, yet another UAW official pleaded guilty to accepting kickbacks and bribes. Jeff Pietrzyk was a top aide to former UAW Vice President Joe Ashton, and it sure looks like federal investigators will now go after Ashton. Pietrzyk is the 10th union official to be convicted in the scandal, and this investigation has no end in sight.
ANALYSTS EXPECT TESLA TO LOSE MONEY IN Q3
Tesla will report its third quarter earnings later this evening, and analysts are expecting the company to post record sales, but still lose money even though Elon Musk promised the company would break even. Analysts are concerned about falling sales of the Model X and S which bring in more revenue per vehicle than Model 3s.
TRAFFIC DEATHS DOWN IN U.S.
Are people driving more carefully? Traffic fatalities in the U.S. dropped 2.4% last year, with 36,560 people killed, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. So far this year, they’re down another 3.4%. And it’s an across the board drop, with fatalities involving cars, light trucks, heavy trucks and motorcycles all down. No one really knows why they’re dropping. Safety advocates claim it’s because of better safety technology. Police departments claim it’s because of better enforcement. And we say these numbers always vary from year to year. It’s better to look at the trend lines, not one year’s results. And the trend lines all point to fewer fatalities.
FCA INVESTS MILLIONS TO ASSEMBLE BATTERY PACKS
Make or buy? That’s a big decision for car companies when it comes to batteries for electric cars. Most OEMs plan to buy packs from suppliers, but some are looking at making them in-house. And that includes FCA, which is investing 50 million euros to assemble battery packs using co-bots at its manufacturing complex in Torino, Italy. FCA is going to build a new electric-powered Fiat 500 at its Mirafiori plant there next year, with a goal of making 80,000 a year. And it’s going to make electric versions of the Maserati GranTurismo and GranCabrio at a nearby assembly plant. FCA doesn’t sell any BEVs in Europe right now, so this is part of its plan to catch up.
HOW TO CONVERT WLTP TO EPA
We often cite the world harmonized light-duty vehicles test procedure or WLTP figures when reporting on the range of vehicles. It replaces the older, less accurate NEDC test, but the WLTP is still not as difficult as the EPA test. To clear up the confusion between the procedures here’s an easy conversion we like to use from InsideEVs. If you divide the WLTP number by 1.121, you’ll get a pretty good idea of what the EPA figure will be. For example, the Renault Master fuel cell we reported on yesterday has an estimated range of 350 kilometers. Divide that by 1.121 and you get 312.2 kilometers. Convert that to miles and you get about 194. So any time you hear someone quote WTLP, divide by 1.121 to get a better real world number.
HONDA DEBUTS NEW FIT
We have a lot of news from the Tokyo auto show. Honda showed off its all-new Fit and it’s hugely different from the outgoing model. Honda says it offers better driver and passenger comfort, with better visibility, better seats and ride comfort, and new tech. Honda is offering five different trim levels, like the standard run-of-the-mill BASIC model, to the CROSSTAR which has an adventurous look, good for city and off-road driving. Honda Sensing, which is what Honda calls its suite of safety technology, was updated with a front-facing camera which is now standard on all trim levels. The new Fit also has an optional hybrid model with two motors. The new Fit is expected to go on sale in February.
MAZDA UNVEILS MX-30 EV
Mazda officially unveiled its MX-30 electric vehicle which, to our surprise, has suicide doors and no B-pillar. Instead, the structure is built into the doors, and that allows for a much bigger door opening. The new EV also gets unusual but modern materials, like soft airy seats made from polyethylene bottles, or tray made from cork that’s under the floating center console. Even though the MX-30 is a new EV concept, it still retains Mazda’s Skyactiv driving technology, but it’s now called e-Skyactiv.
NISSAN SHOWS OFF ARIYA CONCEPT
OK, more news from Tokyo. Nissan is showing off a bit of the automaker’s future design direction with the Ariya concept. You’ll see it expands on several design elements from the IMx concept that was first shown in 2017. Some of the design language Nissan keys in on with the Ariya are the wide front fenders, thin LED headlights and the grille, which Nissan is calling a shield on its electric vehicle and has a subtle geometric pattern that reveals itself when light shines on it. As for the interior, Nissan said it was going for a pure, clean look. A large 12.3-inch display screen dominates the interior while the HVAC controls sit flush-mounted at the lower part of the dashboard. The Ariya also has twin electric motors for all-wheel drive, but Nissan does not talk about possible battery size or range.
SUBARU UNVEILS LEVORG WAGON “PROTOTYPE”
Subaru unveiled a new wagon called the Levorg Prototype. And while it’s called a prototype, this vehicle looks production ready to us. Powering the car is a new 1.8L horizontally opposed direct-injection turbo engine. The Levorg is equipped with the latest version of the company’s EyeSight advanced driver assistance system, which features hands-free driving in traffic jams. The production version of the Levorg goes on sale in Japan in the second half of 2020.
MITSUBISHI REVEALS TWO CONCEPTS
Mitsubishi showed off a couple of funky looking concepts. First up is the MI-TECH, which features dune buggy-like design. It’s a plug-in hybrid that comes with a gas turbine-engine, which can run on a number of different fuels including diesel, kerosene and alcohol. The powertrain also includes a four-motor electric 4WD system. The company also revealed a kei car called the SUPER-HEIGHT K-WAGON CONCEPT. It was designed for passenger space and the company claims it has the largest rear door opening and back seat legroom in its class. Mitsubishi will release a production version in Japan by the end of next March.
LEXUS UNVEILS LF-30 CONCEPT
And finally, here’s a vehicle you’re not going to see on sale, the Lexus LF-30 Electrified Concept. But like the Nissan Ariya Concept we are likely to see elements of the LF-30 in a future generation of electrified vehicles. The interior seems to split in two, with the driver and passenger having their own little area focused on them. Lexus also uses gesture control to command functions and augmented reality to provide information to the driver. Performance for the LF-30 would be quite impressive as well. It features 4 in-wheel electric motors, a 110-kWh battery pack that returns 500 kilometers of WLTP range or about 277 miles of EPA range and will move from 0 to 100 km/h in 3.8 seconds.
You’re not going to want to miss this week’s Autoline After Hours. We’ve got author Ted West here to talk about his book Closing Speed, which is a fictionalized account of the 1970 World Manufacturers Championship. And the Autoextremist Peter DeLorenzo is also back in the house. The show goes live Thursday at 3PM eastern time on our website or YouTube channel.
And that brings us to the end of today’s report, thanks for making Autoline Daily a part of your day.
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Comments (59)
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:20 pm
I’ve/we’ve said it before on traffic deaths; a more accurate number could be had if used deaths/miles driven. Perhaps that is a unwielding number to derive (but I seem to remember that that number is published too). And it is a shame that we (all) have been somewhat callused that such a high number of lives lost still doesn’t get the attention it should.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:23 pm
Levorg??? Maybe naming cars with numbers isn’t so bad.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:24 pm
“…No one really knows why they’re dropping. Safety advocates claim it’s because of better safety technology.
That’s 100% correct, today’s cars are getting safer and safer and help bad and careless drivers more and more.
“Police departments claim it’s because of better enforcement.”
Nice try. Don’t buy it.
” And we say these numbers always vary from year to year. It’s better to look at the trend lines, not one year’s results. And the trend lines all point to fewer fatalities.”
That’s absolutely true, but the question was “WHY”?
I have one more explanation (could not resist), that the sloppy, terrible, absent-minded, driving and texting and eating and arguing with the passengers, and other types of bad driver, may have been gradually weeded out of the driver gene pool. Way to go Darwin! Natural Selection (or elimination).
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:27 pm
1.121? YOu got to be kidding, you don’t need that level of precision, most of it is ERROR. 1.1 is too low, I suggest even dividing by 1.2 will still give you a very optimistic range. But either way, get rid of the second and third decimal or you are wasting time and gaining NO more accuracy. A good Engineer would understand the above. An Accountant would not.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:29 pm
1 fatalities /miles driven was ALWAYS been used. More precisely, fatalities per 100 million miles gives you a small useful ratio and most use that. But it so happens that cars have become so much better, even the absolute number of fatalities has fallen, despite a doubling of the number of drivers since the 60s.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:30 pm
Traffic deaths are in decline but pedestrian deaths are WAY UP. Maybe drivers put too much faith in auto technology…much that doesn’t work or not perfected.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:33 pm
https://www.wardsauto.com/10-best-ux/2019-wards-10-best-ux-winner-video-vw-arteon?NL=WAW-04&Issue=WAW-04_20191023_WAW-04_427&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_5&utm_rid=CPENT000009061197&utm_campaign=22832&utm_medium=email&elq2=77926765998c419f9fa2a516c70c7ef9&utm_source=27131
Ward’s likes the new Arteon. Just saw the 2 min video. $10k more than the Passat which has more room but a lousy interior.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:35 pm
6 I BET you have ZERO Data to support that, and the reason you think is true, is the STUPID Local news on TV and their “if it bleeds it leads” style.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:35 pm
2
Could not agree more.
re: Fatalities.
Considering there are half again more people in the USA than there were 50 years ago, and more being added every year, it is remarkable the job accomplished in keeping the rates down.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:35 pm
John; Just curious if you suspect any long term affects from the UAW scandal or will it just result in a house cleaning?
Traffic fatalities are down. I would speculate that it will continue to trend down for various reasons like fewer drunk drivers because of apps like Uber. Even the poorest of people are now driving cars equipped with airbags as the older unsafe vehicles get retired. Also the newer cars with auto braking features. Plus improvements in highway safety like large shoulders and construction crews using cement wall dividers instead of orange cones. Plus I suppose the traffic cameras prevent some running of red lights.
Is it just me or does the new Honda fit look like older generation Prius? Not the exact lines but the overall shape.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:38 pm
The low fatality numbers in he US might correspond to the increase in traffic and the slower speeds for the “slow gridlock” on the freeways.And no influence from AVs.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:42 pm
11 AVs do not exist yet, let alone filling our roads.
10 It is 100% just you. This looks sleeker than the old Fit, and NOTHING like any prius.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:45 pm
It would be interesting to see how difficult it is to get into the back seat of that Mazda MX-30. The rear door doesn’t look very big but without the B-pillar it has to make it much easier. I always have trouble getting my feet out of most sedans as the space between the bottom of the seat and the B-pillar is often less than a foot and it requires you to turn your foot sideways to fit thru.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:47 pm
12 Oh you speak for everyone now. Doesn’t surprise me.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:48 pm
8
WaPo too small-town Hicksville for you?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/us-highway-deaths-fall-in-2018-for-second-straight-year/2019/10/22/fb07f926-f51a-11e9-b2d2-1f37c9d82dbb_story.html
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:50 pm
The formula to convert WLTP to EPA measures looks too complicated and hard to do in your head quickly.
It is much simpler to deduct 10% WLTP to approximate the EPA equivalent. That’s easy!
Better yet; to convert WLTP (kilometers) to EPA (miles) just take 55% of the WLTP value.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Around here, most pedestrians are college students who never seem to pay attention where they are going, as their faces are buried in their STUPID (not smart!) phones. It is a miracle they are not dying like Flies, or at least getting serious injuries from falls (no cars involved). Actually, our town has DRACONIAN Laws against drivers who do not stop for these idiots at any one of many, many crossings, they installed blinking lights when they do etc, all in the last two years.
October 23rd, 2019 at 12:53 pm
14 it’s still you. And Cwolf, tops.
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:02 pm
Larry, pedestrian death data was taken from the NHTSA report.
I try to be accurate and not have to always prove myself to any single person who only believes in ones own imagination.
I would like to think to have a relatively good “trust value” with everyone….do you?
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:07 pm
18 I’ll be sure next time to clarify the question to everyone but you. But thanks for your input this time around all knowing one.
So does your house have double front doors to get that ego inside?
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:09 pm
I can’t imagine an electric Maserati GranTurismo having many sales. One of the main reasons to buy a Maserati (outside of the exotic nameplate) is its aggressive exhaust note. Which would be completely castrated once it goes electric.
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:11 pm
19 Doesn’t matter if you have facts with actual data if it doesn’t align with the his thoughts. In his mind, that’s all that matters as we have seen time and time again. Anyone who watches AD regularly would remember that John reported that pedestrian accident were up just like a month ago. I knew you were correct.
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:14 pm
21 Another reason to buy a Maserati is if you are a masochist, as they are utter lemons (I know people who returned their Quattroportes and got new ones under the MI Lemon Law.
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:22 pm
23. Yes, the Quattroportes are incredibly unreliable and problem laden machines.
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:51 pm
23,24 Wholeheartedly agree, yet, when someone asks what you drive, and the people that own them say with pride, ‘oh, I drive a Maserati’; the name still has a lot of cache for those unaware.
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:56 pm
#1. You’re right of course. Here’s the info you’re asking for: “The fatality rate per 100 million vehicle miles traveled also decreased by 3.4 percent, going to 1.13 in 2018 from 1.17 in 2017 — the lowest fatality rate since 2014, according to NHTSA.”
October 23rd, 2019 at 1:59 pm
#10. I do expect long-term ramifications for the UAW over this corruption scandal. There will be a house cleaning, as you note. But there will be structural changes w/in the union. I also suspect the D3 have chopped out a lot of training money since this was the root of the corruption scandal. Also, don’t rule out a Justice Department take-over of the UAW, which is what happened with the Teamsters union when it was riddled with corruption.
October 23rd, 2019 at 2:02 pm
6,8,15
From Brett’s linked article:
“pedestrian fatalities have risen about 53% since 2009.”
That 2009 starting date more-or-less coincides with the steep climb in “smart phone” addiction.
October 23rd, 2019 at 2:04 pm
1,26 The fatalities/distance data is very useful for comparing relative safety by country. This data is sortable, for the countries that report such data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
October 23rd, 2019 at 2:11 pm
This looks interesting, “MX-30 electric vehicle” but the initial press release doesn’t have a lot of technical specs. A BMW i3-REx owner, this looks like a supersized BMW i3 with a few omissions. For example, no front trunk. But since it is for the EU market, we won’t see it for awhile … darn it.
October 23rd, 2019 at 2:46 pm
30. MX-30? Does that mean it is 6 Miatas? C & D says it has a 35.5 kWh battery, so it won’t have a lot of range.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29555758/mazda-mx-30-concept-photos-info/
October 23rd, 2019 at 3:03 pm
31 Most likely it means they got it right after 29 failed attempts. I still would not want to sit in that back seat, its back looks like an ironing board, and it probably has no leg room to speak of.
October 23rd, 2019 at 5:47 pm
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/23/tech/tesla-earnings-profit-sales/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
October 23rd, 2019 at 7:42 pm
Congrats to Tesla for their reported earnings. What a surprise! Regardless of their saw-toothed market reputation, they have a chance to continue growth in line with expenditures.
They really need to keep this trend on a positive note.
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:32 pm
27) I agree with John about the Justice Department over-seeing the reconstruction of the UAW and it will be for the better.
The scandal is greater than what the UAW members can control. I anticipate the contract will be ratified regardless of the negativity of many members who face plant closures. I think Spring Hill workers have a separate beef which I am unfamiliar with. I also believe there are at least 2 or 3 more contracts in the UAW’s future to prepare themselves for EV’s become more dominate. I then foresee more energy to unionize suppliers, more retraining of existing workers towards anything EV related, but most of all a dire attempt to keep manufacturing/assembly within the U.S.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the UAW didn’t come back stronger than ever in the future. It is vital to the U.S. to keep a middle class alive and the workers inherited rights of fair representation, fair wage, and a reasonable work week become a standard world wide. And without a doubt, temp workers can no longer be treated like dispensable slaves without representation just to control costs. One would think we have bettered ourselves since the civil war.
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:42 pm
35 I don’t know what Spring Hill employees would be upset about. They have products that will stay around, Cadillac and GMC CUVs.
October 23rd, 2019 at 9:21 pm
Kit, I used to have a workmate who transferred there, but he retired. I believe the issue is too many temps. I also don’t think there is a good relationship between trades and supervisors. I’m sure you have experienced this before where trades reason why something should be done one way but management wants it done another (often an applied patch to maintain production schedules ). I think their problems are close to what I tried to describe.
I do know workers at this plant take great pride in making vet’s!
October 24th, 2019 at 6:44 am
Managed to adjust my PUT price on some of my TSLA before the market opens. Hope I guessed right … $420/share.
October 24th, 2019 at 6:52 am
34 You place way too much importance to insignificant short term trends. Musk would be just another average guy if he thought like that.
I have not even bothered to look at these earnings, if any, yet. They are UTTERLY unimportant for a company like Tesla at THIS stage of its Stellar Growth.
The ONLY truly successful, high-achieving, American auto company.
October 24th, 2019 at 6:56 am
35 you could not be more wrong. I will be HUGELY surprised if the UAW reverses the constant, long term trend of going down the tubes, mainly because of its GREED, but also due to the Corruption of its so called Leadership.
AND semi-skilled workers that assemble, not even make, cars, are NOT Middle Class, they are WORKING Class, and if you expect them to retain the very top wages and benefits they ever achieved, into the future, you are delusional.
October 24th, 2019 at 7:00 am
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/23/tesla-third-quarter-earnings-deliveries/
Just checked them. Not only a profit, (still have not seen how much it was, and neither do I care) BUT, Much more important, RECORD DELIVERIES again!
October 24th, 2019 at 7:03 am
Analysts were expecting a loss of 42 cents per share.
Instead, Tesla posted a profit of $1.86 per share.
Too bad the stock skyrocketed before Cwolf had a chance to buy some (I still would not, as I would also not buy the stock of any INDIVIDUAL company but only a good mutual fund of an industry I would care to invest in)
October 24th, 2019 at 7:14 am
41 Shares of the company shot up 21% to over $307 in extended trading after Tesla also confirmed that it was producing vehicles on a trial basis at its Gigafactory in Shanghai.
21% is a HUGE rise.
October 24th, 2019 at 8:04 am
https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/ford-q3-earnings-fall-57-amid-restructuring-2019-guidance-lowered?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20191023&utm_content=hero-image
as I was saying in 39
“The ONLY truly successful, high-achieving, American auto company.”
And it’s sure not Ford, GM, or even FCA.
October 24th, 2019 at 8:05 am
37. We had some less-than-stellar relationships between trades and supervision too, but nothing too bad, at least in my experience.
October 24th, 2019 at 8:47 am
44 Talk about delusional. You couldn’t be more wrong! The ONLY successful American auto company laughable. GM made like 14 Billion over the last 12 months. What has Tesla made? Oh that’s right cars. Seems GM is about 14 Billion higher achieving than Tesla right now. I prefer my horse to lead that race not consider it successful just because it finishes the race. Go run your cheerleading campaign on a Tesla blog site.
October 24th, 2019 at 9:33 am
Tesla door handles on model S. Did they contribute to the death of its driver Dr Awan. https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/teslas-futuristic-door-handles-blamed-death-fiery-wreck
October 24th, 2019 at 9:38 am
My neigbor bought a new Passat, great looking in white, big, very spacious rear seat, but the cheap TN Interior.
Walking to the office and crossing the parking lot at the end of the walk, saw my first Ioniq coupe up close, looking fine, smooth, no crazy flares like the Prius (which were also UNneccesary, as proven by the Ioniq getting just as good MPGs EPA as the Prius!), in some blueish color.
Also saw a ton of domestics, probably popular with poor grad students who grab them used cheap, including several new Jeep Renegades, the poor man’s “Jeep” which is related (and made in the same plant as) that god-awful Fiat 500 Fat “crossover”. The Renegade looks bad, but Lambo will insist it looks better than VWs and Audis. Yeah, right.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:02 am
48 Again you couldn’t be more wrong. “Assuming” does prove… we all know the saying. The Renegade is some Fiat version of a Jeep and sad one at that. Guess you were never a poor grad student or poor ever. Too bad you might actually have learned what its like to be humble. Oh and your attempted slam at the domestics is hilarious considering cars like MB and BMW lose far more money in depreciation than a domestic. As even you have pointed out how you can pick up an over-priced MB that was 80K new and with a few years on it save 55K. Guess those poor grad students aren’t as dumb as the fools that loose thousands on those cars.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:05 am
47 I posted that link, and we had some discussion about that a day or two ago. I’ll find it and post the day/#
October 24th, 2019 at 10:10 am
47,50
AD#2701, starting with post 38,40
October 24th, 2019 at 10:19 am
The Levorg looks very much like a Impreza wagon
October 24th, 2019 at 10:26 am
49 seriously, you don’t even know the diff between “Lose” and “Loose” and think VWs do not have excellent styling but a chrome laden (more cowbell!) Ram truck Or Jeep Renegade does, and you want me to take you seriously?
I did not read your entire (as usual) lengthy diatribe, but people with half a brain DO buy bargains, whether they are a $10,000 Excellent (you cannot even dream how much better than your Chrysler 300 or worse, Chevy Impala) E class diesel, OR a used Camry or Accord, for those poor grad students. Where these poor souls made a mistake is byuing used Tauruses and Malibus instead. They barely saved a few hundreds in the purchase price (which is all fools look at, usually) but they will lose $1,000s in repairs.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:28 am
53 whether they are $10,000 E classes, or $100,000 Rolls Royce Phantoms or Bentley Mulsannes. (FYI those cost $500k and $1 mill new, with their options) You can always do better used, and the ‘new car smell’ is vastly overrated.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:33 am
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/10/ace-of-base-2019-hyundai-kona-electric-sel/
Speaking of ugly styling, another run of the mill BEV with an ugly, stupid grille. Include the rest of the areas it is vastly inferior to the industry standard, and then wonder why, despite being a crossover, it will not be able to sell even 10% of what the Model 3 is selling.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:34 am
48 The Ioniq “coupe,” actually a 4 door liftback, matches the mpg of a Prius, but with 6 gears and 2 clutches, while the Prius has one gear, and no clutches. The Accord has extra complexity, but to a much lesser extent than the Ioniq. All of today’s cars are very complex, but when you use such an extreme case of complexity for complexity’s sake as the Ioniq hybrid, I’ll pass, even though it looks better than the current Prius.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:38 am
The interesting questions in the BEV sector are
1. Will the Model Y be as successful as the 3, or even more?
2. How well will the Rivian EV Pickup (and its cousin the Rivian SUV) do? Will buyers mind its ugly front end? besides Tesla, and some BEV makers in China few know about, Rivian is probably the one BEV maker with the best chances to not end bankrupt.
3. How soon will Tesla’s CHina Gigafactory 3 reach its full production volume of 500,000 Model 3s and model Ys PER YEAR? Currently, Tesla sells only a few Ss and Xs there, because they are way overpriced there vs the US, on top of being expensive to begin with.
October 24th, 2019 at 10:46 am
57 Unless there are actual people who like the looks of the Rivian mock ups, I’d think the appearance might get changed substantially before they actually sell anything.
I think the Model Y should sell great. It’s something I’d consider buying, even they will market it as an SUV.
October 24th, 2019 at 11:42 am
53 Regardless of any spelling errors, as if you never have any (cause you have your fair share). I’d rather YOU take me, exactly how I take your comments. With a grain of salt. Your opinion and lengthy posts about your walks to work and trips to the store the cars you see and your past friends in Boston that no one cares about are exhausting to put it best.
As you can tell by the responses to 57 and Kit doesn’t count because he always responds to your nonsense 1) who cares. 2) Rivian is ugly and will fail because no one has asked for an EV pickup. 3)Probably never or they will hit max capacity in 2020 only to realize they have more capacity than demand.