AD #2725 – Ford to Build Mustang Mach-E in Mexico, Tesla Receives 200K Cybertruck Orders, Another UAW Official Resigns

November 25th, 2019 at 11:48am

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Runtime: 8:52

0:07 U.S. November Sales Expected to Rebound
0:47 Another UAW Official Resigns
1:21 Porsche’s Android Auto Decision May Hurt It
1:55 Elvis Album Cover Car Revealed
2:48 Elon Musk Claims 200K Cybertruck Orders
3:31 Ford to Build Mustang Mach-E in Mexico
4:27 VW Introduces Viloran Van
5:12 Toyota Launches Granace Luxury Van
5:56 Mercedes To Premiere GLA Online
6:28 Hella Develops Air Particulate Sensor
7:22 Ford’s Response to Mustang Mach-E Name Complaints

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58 Comments to “AD #2725 – Ford to Build Mustang Mach-E in Mexico, Tesla Receives 200K Cybertruck Orders, Another UAW Official Resigns”

  1. Kit Gerhart Says:

    When I listened to AAH a couple days ago, to me, Dave Pericak just sounded silly, as he kept calling the new E-Thing a Mustang, and that he is so convinced that it is a Mustang. As far as building it in Mexico, that makes complete sense. The same people who bought the Fiestas from that plant might be customers for the new vehicle, and since they plan to sell it all over the world, Mexico, which doesn’t normally start trade wars, is a good place to build it.

  2. wmb Says:

    I do not understand why they don’t just call it the Mach E, and not the Mustang Mach E, in the first place. I know, I know, name recognition and what not, but if fans were in an uproar when they were thinking of naming it the Mach 1, they should have known that it’s current name was going to raise eyebrows! It looks enough for people to associate it with the Mustang in its styling, and with it being a Ford (let’s not forget the horse images on it that resemble those on the pony car), IMHO,it would be too hard for the average person to make that connection.
    About it being built out of the country, I wonder if that point was known before the labor contract was signed and if it would have made a difference to employees? It’s interesting that Ford’s contract talks ended BEFORE the Mach E was introduced to the public and its build location! Coincidence? I think not, and I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will have their fun with this one!

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    GM lost 10,000 is sales? So which vehicle did they deplete all of their inventory on? (None) So it was not due to lack of vehicles. What is more likely the cause is the 46,000 employees and the suppliers that were off work certainly did not buy any vehicles that quarter.
    Plus they sold cars and the loss is really just a drop from their expected sales.
    GM sold about 2.1 Million vehicles per quarter last year so 10k is a .0047% loss for the quarter or a .0011% loss for the year.
    A drop in the bucket.

  4. Lambo2015 Says:

    2 wmb No doubt Ford was keeping that tidbit of information quiet until the contract was signed. Especially with GM announcing their electric truck plans to build in Hamtramck Michigan. But the UAW shouldn’t be too upset as the strategy behind this makes sense and sets the Mach-E up for better sales potential on exporting it. Plus the volume will be lucky to hit 30K a year.
    Tesla cyber truck is two years away from production so those 200k deposits mean little to nothing. Elon can easily afford to place those orders himself and I wouldn’t put it past him. If they are real orders then Tesla should be building tooling and machines to accommodate at least 200K a year production. I’m willing to bet they wont as the more volume capacity the more money is needed. So it may be a repeat of the Model 3 where they cant build fast enough

  5. Bob Wilson Says:

    Speculation on my part about Mexico, Ford probably looked at the sales profiles for the Teslas, Jaguar, and realized after the initial release, sales decay over the next 3-4 months to a steady state (still substantially decreasing for iPace and E-tron.) At a union plant and not holding back enough of the initial inventory for the early adopters, the union might push for higher production numbers even after sales fall to sustainable numbers. Then there is the challenge of the multiple trims that unions could make a ‘living h*ll’ for management.

    Ford manufacturing needs flexibility in the initial Mach E rollout and unions have not been sympathetic to flexible production.

  6. Bob White Says:

    This is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. A $100 refundable deposit isn’t a solid order. How many of these deposits come from Tesla fanboys who have no intention of ordering the product. They just see it as support for the “cause”. Just like nearly 3/4 of the 450K deposits for the Model 3 may have evaporated based on sales (Tesla always refused to divulge this), will even 5% of these reservations lead to actual orders. Especially since, Rivian, Bollinger, Ford and GM will likely beat Tesla to market with their full electric version.

    This mockup was to create hype and more free advertising for Tesla. In that respect, it’s mission accomplished. Very similar to a shocking Trump tweet. Trump and Musk are so similar in the way they manipulate the masses…

    The actual product will be significantly different “IF” it is ever produced.

  7. Phred Says:

    The Ford Mustang mach E leave us with the feeling that this is another attempt at “badge Engineering” to hawk a new model. And the statement that there are more to come only reinforces the feeling!!!

  8. Thirsten Says:

    Chinese and Mexican workers don’t strike, so this is a wise decision by Ford…

  9. Barry T Says:

    I was very surprised when Porsche “went SUV” (and now EV) and so many predicted the coming end but now looks so smart. Everyone upset (I’ll admit i was surprised) with Ford for the Mustang tie to Mach E might do well to reflect on that.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Most indications are that this Ford will be a decent product, which should compete with the Model Y on price, and substantially undercut i-pace and e-tron on price. They didn’t need to use such an inappropriate name.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    8 A big difference is that it’s Porsche Cayenne and Macan, not Porsche 911 Cayenne and Macan.

  12. XA351GT Says:

    I’m not buying Ford’s explanation for the use of Mustang on this new CUV. Like has been said want to call it Mach-E , fine no botching from me. Call that a Mustang and now I have a issue. As a owner of 2 1970s and 1989 Those are what a Mustang is. a 2 door sporty car not a bloated , silent CUV with no soul. Slapping tri-bar tail lights on it doesn’t make it a Mustang. Back in the early 70s the Maverick and Pinto used the exact same tail lights They didn’t call it a Maverick Pinto . The Cyclone/Montego and the Comet shared tail lights they didn’t hang those together even though years before one was trim level on the other, They were 2 distinct models. I see no difference here. Ford can try and blow smoke up everyone’s @$$ ,but we know why they did it. To get attention and by damn they succeeded ,just for all the wrong reasons

  13. Kevin A Says:

    Please remember that Ford is an international company. If you want Ford to be allowed to sell in other countries, then you have to understand that they need to manufacture in other countries too. If you want all Fords to be made in the US, then other countries will be happy to nationalize (with no payments to US shareholders) the parts of Ford that are outside the US.

  14. Kit Gerhart Says:

    11 Exactly. You, as a Mustang owner, said it much better than I could.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    14, 11 became 12

  16. Lambo2015 Says:

    12 I could have seen a natural progression had the Mustang gone hybrid and then when the old ICE was in its final days an EV could naturally become the Mustang as the gas engines get put to bed.
    Launching this Mach-E in concurrence seems to show Fords fear that the performance will rival the Mustang. They don’t dare have a vehicle that can run the 1/4 mile faster than the Mustang unless its the Ford GT. Throwing a new vehicle into second place would push the Mustang to the third fastest vehicle.
    GM will probably struggle with the same thing as EVs are quick but the progressing has always been Corvette, Camaro and then whatever else.

  17. Roger Says:

    Betting the CyberTruck is not a real product. Come on – the thing is butt ugly and looks like it was cobbled together in a handy man’s garage from bits and pieces.

  18. Larry D. Says:

    1 I agreed with your first half, and then I lost you. The guy did sound ridiculous, and John onlu encouraged him and did not call him to task, as usual with all Auto Journalists when they interview Big 3 (or Import brand) engineers, VPs and CEOs.

    But making it in MeXICO? and you call that a Mustang? This is the height of ridiculousness, and in stark contrast with the Tesla vehicles sold in the US, which are all made in the US.

    Making a car called the “Fiesta” is 100% appropriate to make it in Mexico. Making a MUSTANG there is like making US flags in CHINA and then importing them here, which they do all the time.

    Or do you want Tesla to start selling Model 3s from its 500,000 a year CHINA Gigafactory 3, and FIRE all the poor workers it has in CA?

    Also, comparisons between the Mach E and the Truck are 100% nonsense. The Mach E will meet its match with the Tesla Y, a CROSSOVER as IT IS. NOT a crazy looking $40K cyber-pickup truck.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    16 cont- I forgot about the 1987 Buick Grand national GNX. “It was so powerful that Buick underrated the performance of the monstrous GSX to 276 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque to avoid tarnishing the Corvette’s image as GM’s flagship sports car, despite being quicker than the C4 Vette. Incredibly, the Buick GNX was able to blitz the quarter-mile run in 12.7 seconds at 113.1 mph which put it in supercar territory, beating the Ferrari F40 by 0.3 seconds. With a 0-62 mph time of 4.6 seconds, the only car that was faster than the GNX at the time was the legendary Lamborghini Countach.”

  20. Larry D. Says:

    2 100% right. I was already always calling it the Mach E and will never call it a Mustang even if idiot Bill Ford comes to my home and gives me $1,000,000, and in holiday gift wrap too, with that red thing on top. So take that, Hackett and Farley.

    6 “Just like nearly 3/4 of the 450K deposits for the Model 3 may have evaporated based on sales (Tesla always refused to divulge this)”

    That is pure speculation, your key word is “MAY”. And I also “MAY” live to 123 years old. What is TRUE is that NONE of those people who withdrew their reservation Ever bought a FAILED Bolt, Leaf, or other COMPLIANCE BEV.

  21. Larry D. Says:

    11 The Mach E (and NOT the Mustang anything) does not compete with the Ipace or the Etron, it is much lower priced and unless the two imports are a joke, it will be far inferior in interior, luxury, and performance.

  22. Larry D. Says:

    13 SUCCESFUL (unlike Ford) nternational companies have plants in every country they sell any serious amount of cars, and especially THEIR OWN, and they sell them to the country they MAKE THEM, like TOYOTA or HONDA or SUBARU or even MERC AND BMW (although the two make SUVs in US and sell them in Europe to the fools that want them).

    TESLA has a plant in the US and sells in the US, a plant twice as big in CHINA and sells to the CHinese Already (Model 3, later model Y), and now it builds a plant in Europe (near Berlin) to sell there.

    How would you like it if Tesla increased its CHINA plant from 500,000 to 1,000,000 a year and exported Model 3s to the US and FIRED all its US workers and closed its plant? it would be just as bad and unpatriotic as Ford, wouldn’t it now?

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 I remember the turbo Buick being quicker than a Corvette a year or two, but GM, at least Chevy didn’t want you to know that.

  24. Larry D. Says:

    17 it had several good ideas but needs help with the execution. I bet a refresh can be done that does not need a billion $, and then it will be quite good, but still I don’t expect its buyers to be those who think a ton of chrome on a stupid brick looks handsome. Ie they will not be traditional pickup buyers. Maybe it will appeal to Delorean, Star Wars, Star Trek and Blade Runner fans. (I am sure none of those)

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 If Ford ends up being able to sell 200K Mach-Es a year in the US, they will probably start building them in the US. If they only sell 40K world wide, Mexico is probably a good place to build them, especially since they have that idle facility.

  26. Larry D. Says:

    23 I had a former student who had one of these stupid black Buick ‘coupes’ the GNX. He even took me out to lunch once, just after he graduated (He was an officer in either Navy or USCG I forget)

    I guess it might make sense as a “Q ship” but then it should not attract attention and be a silver sedan instead of a black coupe.

  27. Larry D. Says:

    25 200,000 Mach Es in the US? not even over 3 years. Ford does not even sell 200,000 regular, much more affordable, much more iconic, Mustangs in 2 or 3 years, let alone 1

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 Coupes of that type were still very popular at the time. The Olds version of that car was the top selling car in the US for a number of years, around the time of the GNX.

  29. Kit Gerhart Says:

    26 Yeah, they probably won’t sell huge numbers, so it makes sense to build them in Mexico, to sell everywhere.

  30. Lambo2015 Says:

    22 No not all automakers including Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Merc and BMW build the vehicle in the countries they sell it in, especially when its a low volume vehicle like EVs. Tesla is the exception but they also only sell EVs and are the leader. The China plant is planning to export to much of Europe. Not sure why wanting an SUV makes them fools.. Ohhh cause Larry thinks its foolish. Then it must be so. :-)

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    21 The top version of the E-Thing WILL compete with i-pace and e-tron in performance, but the interior will, as we know, be much more Tesla-like than Euro-like.

  32. XA351GT Says:

    Larry @18 What I meant in the back half of my comment was that it seems that Ford thinks by slapping a set of Mustang Style tail lights on it makes it a Mustang. When they did exact part sharing in the 70s they didn’t confiscate the name of the car that they took the parts from they stayed their own identity. Just as the Mach -E should . They did this simply to get people talking about the vehicle. Which they are , but like I said for the wrong reasons. We aren’t talking about it’s range or performance , we’re talking about it’s parading as a Mustang. I hope that cleared up what I was trying to express.

  33. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Will there be another real Mustang after the current generation? Maybe they are calling the E-Thing a Mustang as a transition to dropping the real Mustang.

  34. cwolf Says:

    I prefer the Mach E over the label of Mustang too, but I doubt it really matters. If anything, the collectables will continue to increase in value, maybe more so.
    And as far as, what once was the”BIG 3″, they are history as well, except for trucks.
    Not one of them can be creative enough to make a car that people want and at a volume large enough to be profitable when made using U.S labor…even though the Asians can. This alone should tell you enough about the Big 3 leadership. How stupid they are for believing the only way to make a profit is by adding more and more electric devices that either don’t work, are not wanted or are not needed. Also, believing they have to make their vehicles that mimic others; As if they have a ring in their nose for others to lead them.
    The difference in labor costs is well known to be minimal, so why these top executives continue to destroy all that they once stood for, their only priority is on profits, not for the company in whole, but for themselves.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    30 BMW and M-B build their mid and large SUVs in the US, where they sell most of them, but ship them around the world to smaller markets. The last I knew, all X5s, GLEs, GLSs, and probably others are from, I think, Alabama.

  36. Larry D. Says:

    30 so you are already predicting the faux Mustang Ford EV will fail? (“slow sales”)? not even the initial “dead cat bounce” that even the least successful vehicles enjoy when new?

    30 Also the China plant will not even be able to satisfy Chinese demand, even if and when it reaches the full 500,000 a year Model 3 and Y capacity.

    As you should know, Tesla is building a factory east of Berlin to sell to the very promising and fast growing German EV market, as well to the rest of Europe.

  37. Larry D. Says:

    32 I understood already what you meant and agreed with it, and added other reasons of my own why it is a poor choice of a name. it is not even the same car type, Mustang was coupe-convertible from its beginning and for 60 years, this is a crossovery thing.

  38. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/sales/eight-electric-pickup-truck-manufacturers-load-us-market-2021?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20191125&utm_content=article3-headline

    At least 8 pickup EVs to compete for how big a pie of buyers? 100k a year for all of them, tops? And besides the Tesla, there is another that has no curves, all sharp edges, but looks like a brick 100%. And the article sez the GM plant is scheduled to build 250,000 a YEAR? The way their pickups have been trounced by the Ram and fallen to third place, they will not be able to even sell 250k non-EV pickups by that time.

  39. Bishop Says:

    My guess is that Ford will sell their allocation for the U.S. for the first year production of the Mach E before – or at least – very soon after the car is first delivered. (ie., first year run – sold-out)

    I also imagine that Europe will get a significant allocation of the total production of that plant’s first year run – and unlike Tesla did – they won’t have to return many refunds.

    They – unlike other domestic OEMs – do not have any excess capacity in N.A., so having an EU allocation of that first year run will give them time to re-tool a plant in EU to manufacture it there (for sale there).

  40. cwolf Says:

    Ram did very well, but around here, they have huge rebates. Any conclusion of how truck sales are doing this time of year cannot be justified, except for rebates and how many are left on any dealer lots. Looking at fleet sales might be a good indicator if small businesses have extra cash at years end to reduce taxable income. At this time, numbers have little meaning.

  41. Rickw Says:

    First, I have to say I did not read any of Larry D’s comment’s.
    They just irritate me usually and I’m out of Tum’s this evening.

    Now on to my message:
    Sean/John,
    Why don’t you report on these UAW figures as not resigning sooner.?
    i.e. Your report today on Vance Pearson, who has been on PAID LEAVE until the UAW announced his resignation. (Firing)
    Instead you should be saying “Why haven’t these
    SOB”s been arrested and put in jail a long time ago” for the crimes that they have committed.
    Anyone in any other private sector company would be jailed first and questions asked later.

    Not being a current UAW worker, but someone who is still interested in all union negotiations,
    Why haven’t the membership stood up and Struck against “The Union” (not their company) for stealing their money and where does the Justice Dept. stand on this.
    Before a Union Leader gets to the point of being on “Paid Leave”, or shortly thereafter, the JD should have already issued subpoenas for there appearance, testimony and then Immediate Jail Time. I refer to the following transcript from todays show.

    “Another high-profile UAW official resigned. Vance Pearson, the Region 5 Director of the union, who was on paid leave, stepped down from his position effective immediately. He was charged in September with embezzling union funds, money laundering and mail and wire fraud. Last week UAW President, Gary Jones also resigned. We think they should have manned up and quit a long time ago. Or the union should have fired them. All we can say is, what took so long?”

    JMHO,
    RickW

  42. Roger Blose Says:

    Word on the street is that Jim Farley is the guy behind the Mustang Mach E marketing fiasco. Tarnishing the iconic 2 door pony car with its rich history in racing, loyal clubs all over the world, and American manufactured classic could be a career ender for Jim. Did you notice that there are no Ford blue oval labels on this EV! That way if this EV tanks, has many recalls, or bursts into flames like Teslas, Ford can hide from the public damage. Not so the Mexican Mustang Mach E. By the way, Ford has so many other names that they could have used like Cougar Eliminator, Edsel Model F, Lightning, Edison, and more. I currently own two Mustangs and I am not very happy.

  43. George Ricci Says:

    I would like to point out a couple of issues with Tesla Cyber Truck. The very long sloping windshield creates visibility problems. To support that windshield you have A pillars that are stretching out in front of you blocking your visibility to the left front and right front. City driving will be very difficult, at intersections you can have vehicles and pedestrians that are completely blocked from view. In off road driving obstacles will be very difficult to maneuver around. The second issue is under that very long windshield will be a very long dash board. The sun light shining through the windshield will reflect off the dash board and cause reflection on the inside of windshield which is very distracting.

    The stainless steel body panels have unique issues. A deep scratch or dents cannot be repaired; you have to replace the panel. If the truck is several years old, the shade of the new panel will not match the rest of the truck. In the demonstration they hit the middle of the panel and it didn’t dent, but if you hit it near an edge of on a crease, I bit it will.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    42 Yeah, that sounds like Jim Farley all right. I hope he too is irritated beyond belief if he reads my comment, and yours too.

    Your “Edison” name is perfect as it combines the “E” ford likes to use, also E for electric, and third, honors the great inventor.

    And not only is there no Ford logo, the horse itself is not made of chrome but is just a painted on image on the empty grille. Looks bad.

    43 The long sloping front ends in a peak, making the weird truck look pointy-headed like a short Conehead. if they had a break earlier and followed by a 3-foot or 4 horizontal or less sloped piece, it would look much better.

    The front does not look good either. Where are the headlights?

  45. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/mini-going-get-smaller

    e-miniMini! Going back to its roots, smaller than current Mini, 150 miles range, if the price is right it might make a fun city car for the summer home. or for the US as well.

  46. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/suvs/subaru-forester-e-boxer-has-one-mile-electric-only-range

    April 1st came too soon at Subaru. An E-Boxer with a ONE Mile range? That must be a Guinness anti-record!

  47. Don B. Says:

    At least the Mach E looks like a Mustang.
    There has been 4 door Mustangs in the past even a pickup. Just because they did not not rolling out the factory door you Mustang fanatics let them slide by without this disapproval. You sound like Corvette fans “if it doesn’t have pop up head lights it’s not a real Corvette”.
    I believe it is called evolution.
    My beloved Skyhawk/Monza is long dead and parts, sheet metal are non existent. You guys can go online and order a fender or window trim for a 65 Mustang. They keep the name the better the car will work out and parts availability. As long as the E doesn’t stand for Edsel, it could work out. Mach E maybe a red headed step child but you may have to accept it as family.

  48. XA351GT Says:

    Don B @47 , True Mustang guys don’t like those one off abortions you spoke about either. Oh and as far as the name keeps the parts availability flowing try telling that to a guy who owns a 71-78 Mustang. Body and trim parts are nearly if not non-existent new for those cars . To call the Mach-E a Mustang is a abomination not evolution. Here I want you to do this. Go up to a Mitsubishi Eclipse fanatic and tell them that the Eclipse Cross is a evolution of their car. Here’s a another tip, be prepared to duck and run.

  49. Kit Gerhart Says:

    45 I’m not crazy about it being Chinese, but I like the idea of the car, if they get the proportions right, like the 1st and 2nd generation BMW Minis, and keep the price reasonable. It would work for nearly all of my driving, if I had a places to plug it in.

  50. Kit Gerhart Says:

    46 The one mile electric range is about like a regular Prius, or my Camry hybrid. If the Subaru is a serious hybrid, which almost doubles the city mpg of a regular Forester, it makes great sense, but why is the electric range even mentioned?

  51. Lambo2015 Says:

    36 No I wasn’t predicting the Mach-E will fail. However it depends how you define failure. Will Ford sell 200k of these in any one year? Probably not, and I don’t think that makes it a failed vehicle. Your very optimistic in Tesla’s ability to sell over the 500k a year the china plant will have capacity for. Apparently you missed the AD episode where John explained even China sales are down 45%. We may have seen the peak of EV sales with nothing more than a continued steady market but with very little growth. EV’s are about 5% of global sales and just 2% of US sales.
    I totally agree that this EV truck market might be 100k and now will be split among how many manufacturers now? So everyone jumping on this bandwagon might be lucky to see 25K in sales. I’ve seen much better vehicles canceled when sales dropped below 30K.

    Hey EVs are in their infancy and there will be a lot of failures and bugs to work out that cannot be done without making some attempts. Vehicles like the Volt, Bolt and Leaf although haven’t sold well provided a huge learning curve. While Tesla showed the world that EVs couldn’t sell on being green alone. They capitalized on the performance and designed a vehicle that could justify a 70K price tag. Other took note and realized they were not going to get mass amounts of people to pony up 40K for a vehicle that competes with a 20K car that gets excellent gas mileage and thus provides very little advantage over the ICE equivalent.
    So now everyone is on the truck/SUV kick without being sure there is a massive market. I predict that there is going to be huge losses for many of these automakers as they spends millions launching these trucks to what will be dismal sales. IMO

  52. Kit Gerhart Says:

    “Hey EVs are in their infancy and there will be a lot of failures and bugs to work out that cannot be done without making some attempts. ”

    EVs are mature technology, except for the batteries. Cost of motors and controller will continue to decline, but even 20-some years ago, the powertrain of the EV1 worked quite well. Range was limited by the lead-acid, and later NiMH batteries.

    As far as the EV truck market, I agree with what’s been said above. Some businesses will want them, for local use, charging overnight, but I can’t see many of the “lifestyle” buyers, who make up the vast majority of US pickup buyers, wanting to pay maybe 50% more, for a vehicle that will be impractical for that occasional road trip. Also, like with an electric Harley, there are no mufflers to remove.

  53. Lambo2015 Says:

    52 Well contrary to popular belief not all pick-up owners want a lifted 4X4 with loud exhaust or bellowing goal smoke. Many need to be able to tow a camper or boat or have other hobbies that require the use of a bed and with enough room to haul the family. Hence the popularity of the 4 door crew-cab.

    When I said EVs are in their infancy I mean they are still after 20 years not comparable to and ICE. Even as they launch all these trucks none of which will have a 200 mile range while towing a 8000 lb trailer and while running the heat or AC. None will refuel in 5 minutes. None will be under 40K. None will be able to extend range in the wilderness with a few extra gas cans.

    In most cases when a new technology come out and succeeds its because it offers something above and beyond what the current technology offers. EVs right now only offer one single advantage and that’s emissions. Plus no one has provided an exact level of emissions per KW used (which I know varies depending on the power plant) but it should be quite simple for every power plant to determine how much pollution they emit to generate each KW of electricity. Thus depending on where you live you could easily calculate the actual impact to the environment.
    Kinda wonder why this hasn’t been done? Me too!

  54. Lambo2015 Says:

    53 Cont- I mean the whole appliance industry already places tags on your refrigerators and other appliances to give you the energy star rating. They say right on there this 3 ton A/C unit uses approx 3500 watts per hour and will cost $460 a year with average use.
    They could very easily say that this EV will need XXX Kw per year to drive 12k miles and that level of XXX Kw cost this and emits XX lbs of Carbon Dioxide.
    Typical gas vehicles emit 24 lbs per gallon of gas used. 5lbs for extraction and 19 out the tailpipe.

  55. Kit Gerhart Says:

    53 Yeah, maybe fewer pickups have loud exhaust than a few years ago, but too many still do, especially in certain places I spend some time. Yeah, some people tow with their pickups, but most do not.

    I guess I misunderstood what you were saying about EVs. To me, your saying “Hey EVs are in their infancy and there will be a lot of failures and bugs to work out that cannot be done without making some attempts,” meant you thought they break all the time, which is not the case. Yeah, I completely agree that they have limited range, and take much longer to “refuel” than ICE vehicles. And yeah, EVs are still more expensive.

    It would be quite difficult to state the emissions per kWh for every location, with the tens of thousands of branches of the power grid. Also, the emissions change by the minute, based on usage in the area. Where I am in Florida, more power comes from nat gas peaking plants at high demand times, while a higher percentage of my power comes from nuclear plants at low demand times. Yeah, estimates of “average” emissions could be determined, but it wouldn’t be that simple to do.

  56. Lambo2015 Says:

    55 Not sure you’ll read this as Tuesdays show already was released but you cant tell me that each power plant doesn’t track its output and I’m willing to bet that they could very easily tell you on your power bill the percentage of electricity you get from whatever powerplant. I don’t doubt it varies but on average folks at those plants and within the county and state certainly know about how much power is generated using what source. So they could provide an idea of what each Kw generated creates how much Carbon Dioxide and other pollutants. A very simple program could automatically calculate the approximate amount for a region or even if it was only statewide. A fair comparison could be made without too much effort. I have no doubt the information I’m talking about is already being collected and used within the industry even if its not shared with the public. My sister in-law works for the city here where I live and they constantly monitor and do inspections of factories and plants to monitor their pollutants. So I’m sure the plants themselves monitor to make sure they are compliant.

  57. Larry D. Says:

    36 No, it is impossible to miss John’s constant reporting of Chinese sales being down for the last few months, or a year, but it is really wrong of you to anchor on these short term declines and believe this is the long term trend. The Chinese Gigafacrtory will build 500k at its full output, maybe in a couple years, and I assume most or all will be absorbed by the huge Chinese market, but I can see them exporting to the rest of Asia, even Japan, but sure Korea and India and all the rest of them, even Europe, in the rare case Chinese Demand does not return with a vengeance.

    You need to realize that these short term drops in China car sales were form the Dizzying heights of 30 million cars a year, while the US never even sold 18 mill in the US Market! China rose way too soon and way too fast, and it will get back on track again, it still has ENORMOUS wealth and potential.

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    56 They could tell approximately how much power came from what source. My ~60 year old meter in Indiana certainly doesn’t know how much power I use by time of day, but there, most of the power is from coal anyway, with a little wind and solar. In Florida, the newer, high tech meter could tell the time of my power usage. Yeah, either place could give an “average” which would be useful.