AD #2756 – Cruise Reveals Autonomous Pod; Tesla Can Sell in Michigan; Mitsubishi Accused Of Diesel Cheating

January 22nd, 2020 at 11:47am

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Listen to “AD #2756 – GM’s Cruise Reveals Autonomous Pod; Tesla Can Sell in Michigan; Mitsubishi Accused Of Diesel Cheating” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 9:08

0:07 Tesla Reaches Deal to Sell Vehicles in Michigan
0:56 Study Shows EV Ownership Eases Concerns Over Issues
1:48 Carlos Ghosn Documentary to Air on CNBC
2:36 Top Hyundai Executive Lays Out Keys for Hydrogen Adoption
3:21 GM’s Cruise Reveals Autonomous Pod
4:11 Jeep Sales Slump Feedback
5:18 Viewer Comments on Roxor Update
6:31 Germany Accuses Mitsubishi Of Diesel Emission Cheating
7:23 Daimler’s 2019 Profit Cut in Half
8:07 JLR Lays Off Workers in England

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62 Comments to “AD #2756 – Cruise Reveals Autonomous Pod; Tesla Can Sell in Michigan; Mitsubishi Accused Of Diesel Cheating”

  1. Larry D. Says:

    I googled Tesla sales by state for 2019 and got garbage, no site was relevant, but one was interesting, having estimates of the top 5 BEV models world-wide and their sales:

    5. SAIC Baojun E Series (Chinese maker), 60,000 units.

    4. BYD Yuan (well known CHinese maker), 68,000

    3. Nissan Leaf, 70,000

    2. BAIC EU Series (Chinese maker), 111,000

    and the winner is, with three times the sales of the first runner-up,

    1. TESLA MODEL 3, 301,000.

    And all this before Tesla sold one unit of the expected 500,000 units per year made in its Shanghai Gigafactory.

  2. Barry T Says:

    Did you hear about the plan for the government to either own or directly control ALL our fuel sources? Oh, yeah, that’s just for EV’s. Not a lot of private/free market sources of electricity. Not to sound too conspiratorial, but I wonder how the electricity charges and road maintenance costs (AKA true ownership costs) are going to look in the next 10-20 years, once we’ve all “made the leap” to EVs?

    That EV Cost of ownership is still counts on “borrowing” road maintainance from the “dirty” vehicles…

  3. Lambo2015 Says:

    Good progress for Tesla! Now get Michigan to fix the title fiasco hoops they put in place as a deterrent and wha-la!

    Hyundai still messing with hydrogen? insert Larrys typical fool cell comment here.

    With all these dieselgate cheats going on, does anyone wonder if maybe similar things have been done with gas engine vehicles too? I do.

  4. Larry D. Says:

    3 Actually I should give credit to Elon Musk, he is the one who called them “Fool’s Cells”

  5. Brett Cammack Says:

    Majority of wear and tear on public roads is caused by heavy trucks, not passenger vehicles.

  6. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2 A number of states have EV registration fees that result in EV users paying far more than the gas tax of a comparable ICE vehicle.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    2 My thoughts exactly as people are quickly finding out that all these “advantages” to EV ownership will quickly dissolve into equal or more cost in the end.
    Its been quite the learning curve as so many makers started with these little crap cars that were as expensive as luxury cars. Found out that didn’t work too well.
    They tried to sell em as cheaper to operate since you needed no gas. But simple math kept people from buying when the gas savings didn’t justify the higher purchase price for about 30 years.
    They tried to make it sound like its better for the environment which many people say they care until it comes to paying thousands more for a car then-not so much.
    So the only real selling feature has been performance. Which Tesla captured from the beginning and everyone else is playing catch-up.
    In the end there is, and only will be performance that sets EVs apart. Cost will be a wash at best.

  8. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 Brett, you need to update your web site. It looks like it’s been 2 1/2 years since you posted anything.

  9. Larry D. Says:

    “The study also found that the cost of owning an EV is about the same as a gasoline powered car. Based on five years and 75,000 miles of driving, an EV only costs about $600 more annually.”

    Did the study actually do any math to prove this, or did they just do a survey of some small and statistically insignificant sample?

    Not all EVs are equal, some have far higher costs than their corresponding (similar size and performance) ICEs, (Audo Etron, Jag BEV, and even Tesla Model X) while others are far more competitive (Model 3 vs 3 series).

    Did the study take into account the sales units of each model? If it did not, it absolutely should, and come up with a correct weighted average.

    If not shown more details that answer the questions above, I will assume the alleged $600 is 100% BS.

  10. Vic Maslanka Says:

    Folks, people aren’t buying EVs because they cost less (long term costs). They’re buying them because they are an environmental statement and / or the latest and greatest thing. Just like people don’t buy a luxury car or performance car because it costs less.

  11. Vic Maslanka Says:

    Can anybody explain the title part of the Tesla settlement? Some other Michigan law got in the way? Or does the sales / service settlement count on them being “used” vehicles since they were titled elsewhere?

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Does anyone know how, exactly, the Michigan requirement to first register a Tesla in another state, and then transfer it to MI will work? It sounds like a big hassle to me, unless Tesla will have a system to do it for the customer.

  13. cwolf Says:

    9). You can see the study by going to “ newsroom”. All of your Q’s will find answers……
    Really….. no BS!!!

  14. GM Veteran Says:

    It doesn’t really sound like Michigan budged on allowing Tesla to sell vehicles in Michigan. It seems more like Tesla found a way around the law and has set up a system to take advantage of it, and Michigan has agreed not to challenge it. Not much of a change and not a very elegant solution to the problem, but it does seem that it will make buying and owning a Tesla in Michigan a little easier.

  15. Larry D. Says:

    13 even if your link is not a working one in your comment, I easily found it and you are 100%^ wrong, and I was 100% right, and this so-called “study” is 100% BS.

    I will just mention ONE KEY fact FROM THE SITE:


    The electric vehicle and internal combustion engine driving costs in this study were established using the proprietary methodology employed for AAA’s Your Driving Costs (YDC) project. The 2019 electric vehicle models selected for this study were: Chevrolet Bolt (LT), Hyundai Ionic Electric (Base), Kia Soul EV (+), Nissan Leaf (SV) and Volkswagen eGolf (SE). ”


    They selected a bunch of UTTER LOSER, Compliance Failed BEV vehicles, and NOT even ONE Tesla model, not even the BEST SELLING (by a factor of 10!!!) Tesla Model 3 in the mix????

    Thanks for helping me PROVE that this silly study is indeed 100%, USDA choice, pure BS. its results are worthless, and if you really believe that some imaginary composite EV is “$600 more than some undefined imaginary ICE”, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell to you at a really low price.

    The rest of the study was as unscientific as the TV Show “FAMILY FEUD” EXACTLY. 100% relying on their unscientific sample SURVEY.

  16. Drew Says:

    @11 – The out of state title requirement is to circumvent the state’s law about no factory direct sales for “new” vehicles.

  17. ClassicBob Says:

    On yesterday’s Roxter comments, perhaps Mahindra intentionally made it look like a ’70s Land Cruiser to prove a point that the design is not proprietary. If the courts decide it is, then Mahindra may argue that FCA should also sue Toyota -and wouldn’t that become interesting…

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15 Yeah, the EVs in the AAA thing were Bolt, Leaf, etc., and the non-EVs were Civic, Corolla et. al. They could have used Model 3 and BMW 3 series instead, and the result would have been similar, only the numbers would be bigger, especially the one set of tires that is part of the calculation, and maybe insurance. Actually, the biggest likely error is that it’s too early to accurately predict the 5 year depreciation of most of the EVs. A comparison of a Tesla S and Mercedes S-Class would greatly favor the Tesla, because of depreciation differences.

  19. Larry D. Says:

    In case you can’t see the link, this is the cover of the Jan 27, 2020 issue of “Bloomberg Businesweek”, showing a higj-flying Tesla Model X with rear gullwing doors high up (as if they were wings, I guess) and millions of $ bills coming out of its exhaust, and titled

    “Bye, Haters”, and subtitled

    “Short Sellers despise ELon Musk, but Tesla’s stock is climbing, and costing the sceptics BILLIONS”

  20. Larry D. Says:

  21. Larry D. Says:

    “TSLAQ is an informal collection of obsessives pushing back against the cult of Elon.”

    Here is the whole article from the Jan 27 Businessweek double issue:

  22. ChuckGrenci Says:

    17, Bob, I thought similar and FCA should worry about Toyota long before an off-road only vehicle like the Roxor.

  23. cwolf Says:

    15). If you carefully read the article, to obtain balance in the study only compact cars were evaluated.
    You have to get over this thing when/where Tesla is not included in something it must be untrue….a lie…..and BS.

  24. Tony Gray Says:

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    20 The need a 400 kWh battery in the trailer. Then, you could do a day’s driving, and charge overnight with a “supercharger” and be ready for another day’s driving.

  26. Bob Wilson Says:

    A Tesla Model 3 owner since March 26, 2019:

    1) The Model 3 reaches the opposite side of the intersection first and the speed limit about 200 yards ahead of other traffic. Driving in “chill” mode, stomping the accelerator activates six moving parts. There is no wear or tear or noise compared to hundreds of moving parts in gas/diesel engine and transmission.

    2) It costs $2.50 to drive 100 miles which is half the cost per mile of our former Prius Prime. That does not include free chargers around town that used to be 1/3d of our BMW i3-REx EV miles. Driving 711 miles to the Detroit, Munro EV conference cost $25 in electricity and took 14 hours including meals and potty breaks.

    3) I’m about to sell some of my TSLA stock to payoff my note and get a big insurance reduction, ending collision. The TSLA stock increase paid for half of this.

    After 10 months, the odometer reads 17,033 miles because our Model 3 is fun to drive.

  27. Larry D. Says:

    I already have categorized him as the Henry Ford and Thomas Edison of the 21st century. Trump is right, but ironically his pro-coal etc policies are anything but BEV-friendly.

  28. Larry D. Says:

    26 makes sense, Buy low, sell high. There will be other buying opps for the stock on market dips and overreaction to short-term results.

    by comparison in CHina my assistant, who had a plug-in chinese crossover, told me he could do 60 km (40 miles) on 10 Yuan charging, or $1.50, so even in low gas prices US this is about 70-80 MPG.

    I saw on Facebook (the S owners club) a guy very close to here (in Saline, MI) who got a used S last year, and in 365 days, he put more than 40k miles, doing trips all over MI, incl the UP, and Ontario.

  29. Lambo2015 Says:

    20, 25 Or you could just hook the trailer up to a truck drive for 300 miles stop for 5 minutes to get gas and be on your way for another 300 miles.
    From here to Key West Florida is 1488 miles. In a truck that’s 23 hours of driving and 5 gas stops so another hour =24hrs basically 2 days to get there driving only 12 hours a day.

    In the Tesla the article said 3 hours to 100 miles charging included so your at 44.64 hours driving 12 hours a day you just doubled your trip and need to take 4 extra vacation days (2 each way) for your trip to Fla in your Tesla.

    I’d rather spend 4 extra days on the beach than be driving.

  30. Bob Wilson Says:

    He lies so often, can we believe anything from Trump?

    Elon had the good sense to leave Trump’s ‘business council’ which of course Trump wouldn’t listen to anyway.

    FYI, my ‘link’ is a two hour, Elon interview at his home. Long but it gives insights to the man. YouTube allows increasing the playback speed

  31. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I put Musk closer to Hughes (Howard) before Hughes went off the deep end. Musk is the entrepreneur extraordinaire, Edison also used talent that he hired but was a lot more of the scientist first with business savy; Elon more the opposite.

  32. Larry D. Says:

    30 I think you are confusing Trump with the corrupt Congress and the inexcusable Media. He does not lie, he exaggerates as all businessmen do. When he says to you how “incredible’ and ‘wonderful’ you are, he does not really mean it, he knows you got to suck up to people to take their $.

  33. Larry D. Says:

    31 Howard Hughes is a very good analogy, but Musk is not like Hughes when he was meddling in Hollywood and had exclusive contracts with all kinds of bimbos and starlets etc. But on the Aerospace business part, it’s a very good analogy.

    I mentioned Henry Ford, who did not invent the ICE car (BENZ did!) but he succeeded in making it affordable to the masses. Musk achieved the same thing with the Model 3 (21st century’s Model T)

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 It appears that there are zero superchargers in the Michigan UP, but a few destination chargers, and superchargers close to the UP in Wisconsin and Minnesota. There are a number of chargers in the lower peninsula, so MI didn’t ban chargers, just car sales.

    29 Yeah, using a pickup or SUV would be much more practical, if you want to go any distance, or you tow that Bambi with a Crown Vic, or maybe a Charger. Also, I was being facetious about the big battery in the trailer. There would be no way to interface it with standard chargers.

  35. Kit Gerhart Says:

    32 Who are you trying to kid? Trump lies more in a month, than any other president has in 4 years.

    Musk has ideas, and seems to be good at finding the right people. I suspect a lot of people at SpaceX came from NASA contractors, after the shuttle was retired. In a way, he’s like Steve Jobs was. Jobs had the idea for what an iPhone should look like and do, but other people actually brought it to fruition. The same would be the case with Musk and rocket booster landing, and many aspects of what has made Tesla successful.

  36. Kit Gerhart Says:

    33 The Model T, during much of its history, cost less than half as much as any other car. The cheapest Model 3 costs more than the average car sold in the US, and twice as much as the cheapest cars sold. I don’t see the analogy there, except that Tesla has certainly been the leader in EVs.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I’ve been hearing that Bezos’ Blue Origin is hiring a number of people away from SpaceX, because they pay better, treat employees better, etc. So far, though, Blue Origin hasn’t done much. They have an impressive building a few miles away, but they haven’t launched anything yet in Florida.

  38. Bob Wilson Says:

    #29 – “In the Tesla the article said 3 hours to 100 miles charging . . .” without citing the article. So I had to find one (see link.)

    “The [EV Cannonball rjw]record was done in 45 hour and 16 minutes from the Redball Garage to the Portofino Inn.” the Cannonball, ~2,825 miles.

    If we prorate the EV Cannonball to your 1,488 miles: (1488/2825) * 45.25 hr ~= 23 hr 50 min versus your “23 hours” or “24hrs basically 2 days.” But good EV friend, Bjørn Nyland does YouTube benchmark videos. (at 34:39)

    Bjørn Nyland show Tesla going 1,000 km (625 mi) in 10:00 to 10:30 hh:mm. So prorating your 1,488 miles: (1488/625) * 10:30 ~= 25 hours or in a faster one: (1488/625) * 10:00 ~= 23:50.

    We’re not talking about one article but two, independent observers who video taped their trips.

  39. Lambo2015 Says:

    38 Bob that’s without towing a trailer. The original article citing the 3 hours to go 100 miles was towing a airstream trailer.

  40. Don Wagner Says:

    Sean, I wonder where you got your lower sales figure for Jeep. One of my Jeep leases is with Chrysler Financial. They have web sites with a lot of information on the various FCA vehicles. Link: Copying the exact quote: Jeep Brand
    17 percent increase for year-end total sales record of 973,227 vehicles. Eclipses previous record of 926,376 in 2016
    Jeep Wrangler set a new full-year sales record with 240,032 vehicles, exceeding the previous record by more than 37,000
    Jeep Compass also set a new year-end record with 171,167 vehicles, smashing their previous record by more than 75,000 Please tell us your source. Thanks.

  41. Bob Wilson Says:

    #39 – “Bob that’s without towing a trailer” or the phantom article you claimed exists. But let’s do the following:

    1) Give the starting and ending addresses of your proposed benchmarks. (City Hall is close enough.)
    2) Give the specific trailer specifications you want to test.
    3) Propose the dates you want to do a Tesla to “your truck”, head-to-head date.

    The two vehicles and trailer could take the same route on the same days and voila, we would have an answer. Head-to-head with no excuses.

    Bob Wilson

  42. Bob Wilson Says:

    #39 – Perhaps you might identify the specific URL of this mystery article?

  43. Kit Gerhart Says:

    41 It’s the link in #20, an RV thing, about towing an Airstream Bambi trailer.

  44. Kit Gerhart Says:

    40 Interesting. From carsalesbase, it looks like Jeep would be down a little from a record 2018, but they don’t have 4th quarter numbers. The same is the case with GCBC. I wonder if they are missing Gladiator numbers since sales started mid model year.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    35 Everybody in Washington DC is a corrupt liar EXCEPT Trump and his team.

    Worry about Hunter Biden, the worthless, clueless, drug addict son of the VP who got a job he knew NOTHING about for $50,000 a MONTH in the Ukraine, where the average wage is $100 a month!!!!! WHY did he get that job??? was’t it a bribe to JOE BIDEN HIMSELF, $600,000 a year, given to his son?

    THE PEOPLE will judge who is corrupt and who is not in NOVEMBER. AND Trump will win 48 states this time.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    44 Trump lies incessently about everything, and he is psesident. Hunter Biden is not.

  47. Larry D. Says:

  48. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I’m going to stay out of specifics because this is not the place for political debate even if political decisions skirt the auto industry. I will leave you with this analogy (or is it a metaphor: a smoldering fire can slowly go out, and sometimes a stick can stir the ashes and get it raging again for the good. I believe we are seeing this in Washington now. There certainly is new dialogue from the staleness of status quo milktoast politics of late (let’s say the last twenty years). I will leave it at that and try to refrain any continance of topic here.

  49. Bob Wilson Says:

    #42 – Thanks! Citing the source puts all of us on the same page and it is so easy to use the “Website” block.

    As for a Tesla towing a trailer, “The Fast Lane Car” team had a fail even though they used the right Tesla, a Model X (see link.) They’ve actually done several Tesla tow tests with mixed results.

    Experience with our BMW i3-REx suggests a pop-up or motorcycle sized trailer for our Model 3. But personally, we’ll just camp out in the car with a tent.

  50. Larry D. Says:

    Tesla haters are in for a very long hard Winter. And their winter will not end on March 21 or 22, 2020.

    Some time ago, I admired Musk’s guts when he accepted a pay package that, unlike the coward CEOS of the Detroit 3 who get 60 millions when they FAIL (Mark Fields, anyone?) paid him virtually NOTHING if the Company did not EXCEL, BUT if the company stock exceeded $100 billion, he would get a Detroit CEO-Dwarfing 350 or so million dollars.

    Today, the day has arrived for Musk to get his JUST Rewards.

    “…At the pre-market high of $579.51, Tesla’s market capitalization was roughly $104.5 billion, exceeding Volkswagen’s $100 billion. Tesla opened regular trading Wednesday morning rising 4.1 percent to $569.47.

    Musk, Tesla’s billionaire CEO, is eligible to receive the first tranche of an all-or-nothing pay award if the company’s market value stays above $100 billion for a sustained period. On paper, the first chunk of the award would net him about $346 million.”

    Onwards and Upwards!

  51. Larry D. Says:

    It just does not stop! I just realized that this makes T E S L A the first, EVER, publicly traded automaker to exceed $100 billion in valuation.

    Just for the fun of it, go to the archives and see the NONSENSE spouted by the Tesla haters in the first shows where I started to comment as “Larry D.”, and draw your own conclusions.

  52. Larry D. Says:

    Meanwhile Jeep and that utter loser Suzuki were again caught with their emissions cheating pants down in Europe. Stay tuned for some major fines. Both cheated on Diesel models.

  53. Lambo2015 Says:

    1,4,9,15,19,20,21,27,28,37,49,50,51. Yep 13 posts praising Tesla. Yea we got it Larry you love Tesla and they’re doing great. Maybe consider joining a Tesla forum. You can beat the dead horse there and they will love you.

  54. Brett Cammack Says:

    Mea culpa. :)

    Trying to put together a tour for the 3rd week of July. I’ll put it on my list of things to do

  55. Larry D. Says:

    52 it should be TEN TIMES the number of posts, IF you UNDERSTOOD its EPIC SUCCESSES.

    So put this in your pipe and smoke it.

  56. Larry D. Says:

    52 and PS the posts, unlike your and the others fact-free opinions, were LINKS FROM THE NEWS, sometimes without ANY Comment

    WHat is with this pathological hate for the ONLY SUCCESSFUL AMERICAN AUTO COMPANY, TESLA???

    Reminds me of the pathological hate for our best president since the Great Reagan…

  57. Larry D. Says:

    I suggest the Tesla haters BRACE for more Tesla Stellar news, and even if I do not post them early, they will hear them 100% SURE the next day in this show. So they better not frequent this site, and esp AAH with Munro, if they can’t take the proverbial heat.

  58. Kit Gerhart Says:

    48 Towing a trailer of any significant size would certainly make road trips using the superchargers impossible. I’d think Teslas would work well enough for local towing, though, where a huge loss of range would not be a problem.

    I see that the Model X is the only current Tesla that is “officially” rated to tow, with a 5000 pound limit. Tow ratings in the US are seriously strange, though. Mercedes E-Class and S-Class sold in the US are not supposed to tow anything, but the same cars in the UK are rated to tow 750kg, unbraked, and 1900-2100kg with trailer brakes. I guess it’s the lawyers in the US.

  59. Kit Gerhart Says:

    53 Thanks. I might try to make it to a performance. I see from your site that you do Gordon Lightfoot, one of my favorites.

  60. Kit Gerhart Says:

    58, I meant re 49, not 48.

  61. Lambo2015 Says:

    LOL took three more posts to respond. I bet you make recordings of yourself talking just to you can enjoy listening to yourself. :-)
    I will brace myself as I see not even polite constructive criticism gives you a clue.
    Elon should brace himself for the day your head is removed from his backside.

  62. Carl Says:

    I live in Michigan, about fifteen outside of Detroit. I have seen Teslas driving around here several times with Michigan license plates. The Tesla website also shows a Tesla Gallery location in Troy MI.