AD #2935 – MX-30 Rotary Range Extender Confirmed; New MDX Interior Revealed; Amazon & Rivian Show Off Delivery Truck
October 9th, 2020 at 11:59am
Listen to “AD #2935 – MX-30 Rotary Range Extender Confirmed; New MDX Interior Revealed; Amazon and Rivian Show Off Delivery Truck” on Spreaker.
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Runtime: 10:35
0:07 France Considers Huge Tax on Gas Guzzlers
0:38 Another Startup Accused of Misleading Investors
1:25 Amazon & Rivian Show Off Delivery Truck
2:07 Mazda Confirms Rotary Range Extender for MX-30
3:37 GM Using 3D Printed Parts in Motor Racing
4:46 Waymo Resumes Service in Arizona
5:34 Ford Buys Velodyne Stock
5:59 Acura Shows Off New MDX Interior
7:14 You Said It!
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This is Autoline Daily, the show dedicated to enthusiasts of the global automotive industry.
FRANCE CONSIDERS HUGE TAX ON GAS GUZZLERS
Yowza, looks like sales of Ferrari’s, Lamborghini’s, Rolls Royce’s, AMG Mercedes’ and Porsche’s with internal combustion engines could come to a screeching halt in France. Bloomberg reports the French government is considering a law that would impose a €50,000 carbon tax on cars that emit more than 225 grams of CO2 per kilometer. France already charges a €20,000 tax on those cars, the highest tax of its kind in the world.
ANOTHER STARTUP ACCUSED OF MISLEADING INVESTORS
And while taxes like that could speed up sales of EVs, it isn’t easy being an EV startup. Now, a short seller is going after Workhorse, the startup that is developing an electric delivery truck for the U.S. Post Office. A company called Fuzzy Panda Research accuses Workhorse of misleading investors. It says Workhorse’s prototype Post Office trucks are plagued with problems. Something very similar happened to Nikola, the startup that wants to make fuel cell powered semis and pickup trucks. It was attacked by Hindenburg Research which clobbered Nikola’s stock. But the attack by Fuzzy Panda didn’t seem to affect Workhorse’s stock. In fact, that stock was up in early morning trading.
AMAZON & RIVIAN SHOW OFF DELIVERY TRUCK
A little over a year after Amazon announced it’s ordering 100,000 custom electric delivery trucks from EV startup Rivian, the companies unveiled the first of three models Rivian will build for the tech giant. Some features include, driver assistance technology, cameras mounted on the exterior that give a 360-degree view of the truck through its display screen and taillights that wrap around over the roof of the rear to make it more noticeable while braking. And it has a range of 150 miles. The first trucks will start hitting roads in 2021, 10,000 will be rolled out by 2022 and by 2030 all 100,00 trucks will be making deliveries.
MAZDA CONFIRMS ROTARY RANGE EXTENDER FOR MX-30
And while most everyone’s attention is on EVs these days, there’s still love for vehicles that burn fossil fuels, especially for vehicles with rotary engines. If you find yourself in that camp, then today is a good day. In a video on its official YouTube channel, Mazda’s CEO confirmed the MX-30 crossover will have a rotary range extender. The plan is to test prototypes next year and have them go on sale in Japan by 2022. The all-electric version of the MX-30 will have a 35.5 kWh battery pack that supplies power to a front-mounted electric motor. No word if the range extender will use that same setup.
GM USING 3D PRINTED PARTS IN MOTOR RACING
3D printed parts are becoming more and more common in the auto industry. And now General Motors is sharing details about how it’s using those components in motor racing. The new Corvette C8.R, which debuted at the 24 Hours of Daytona at the beginning of the year, is equipped with 75 3D printed parts, including the oil tank, tank inlet and cap, AC housing, power steering pump bracket and the headlight assemblies. Fifty of those parts were designed or printed in-house by GM. The Silverado off-road race truck features three 3D printed parts, including a rear damper shield made from carbon fiber reinforced plastic. Over in IndyCar, components in its V6 exhaust system are 3D printed. And finally, the NASCAR Camaro is equipped with a 3D printed gear cooling duct and during its development, over 500 3D printed prototype parts were used during tests. All in all, GM’s race teams have racked up more than 80,000 miles this year with race cars equipped with 3D printed parts.
WAYMO RESUMES SERVICE IN ARIZONA
A couple of years ago the buzz was all about autonomous cars. And while the hype has simmered down, AVs keep making progress. Waymo announced yesterday it’s going to resume public taxi service in Phoenix, Arizona with autonomous Chrysler Pacifica minivans with no safety driver. The service will cover 50 square miles, but in a few weeks, it’s going to expand that to a 100-square mile area. Before the pandemic hit, Waymo was providing 1,000 to 2,000 rides a week, but mostly with minivans that had a safety driver on board. Going forward it will not have safety drivers on board, meaning its fully confident of its AV technology. Waymo’s goal is to turn the taxi service into a profitable business.
FORD BUYS VELODYNE STOCK
In related AV news, Ford bought over 7% of the stock in Velodyne, one of the leaders in LIDAR technology. Velodyne recently went public through a reverse merger. Ford invested $150 million in Velodyne four years ago, as did Baidu, the Chinese tech company. Velodyne says it has nearly a billion dollars in orders for LIDAR units through 2024.
ACURA SHOWS OFF NEW MDX INTERIOR
Acura showed off the interior of the new MDX, which the company is transforming into its flagship model. The instrument panel is wider and lower than before, and is surrounded by wood and leather with French stitching. The center display is mounted on top of the dash, like so many vehicles nowadays. It’s also available with a 25-speaker audio system from ELS that’s integrated with LED ambient lighting. The front seats are wider and come with a massage function. And seats in all three rows, feature high contrast stitching and piping. Acura says the new MDX, which launches early next year, will be the most premium and performance focused MDX in the company’s history. Acura will reveal the prototype version next Wednesday, the 14th but since it’s going on sale not long after, we expect it to look pretty production ready.
YOU SAID IT!
I think I was wrong in easily dismissing Audi’s and other automaker’s sounds for EVs as dumb. Some of you, like Aurora Jones, had great comments. “THIS is what I’ve been saying for years. Do the noise, make it unique, make it GOOD, that noise then sings your brand or the models brand anytime people hear it. No one gets this yet but just like jingles, you associate those sounds with brands, cars can do this by the main brand or drive down further model specific. Oh that’s a Mustang. Oh that’s a Porsche… just like with ICE it’s another thing those of us can count on hearing. Electrics need this as they are quiet as standard.” I had never thought to associate these sounds with brand jingles, like you might hear on a commercial. Just think of all the brands you remember because of a catchy tune. But to your point, it would have to be a GOOD noise and, in my opinion, that means it would have to be something different than all these futuristic sounds that automakers keep picking. Commenter CC would be on board with that, “Agree it’s a dumb idea, unless they give owners an option to customize the sound… I’d be all in for that!” Or Steve Johnson who says, “Ha! I want my car’s front grille speaker to play Surfaris Wipeout on continuous loop.” Funny idea, but I’d never want to be stuck in a traffic jam with Steve around.
Speaking of great comments, here’s an email we got after running the story on Monday about Magna’s new EZ Entry Seat. Scott Stephenson wrote in to say, “In this age of computerized everything, why can’t I select my height, inseam, and arm length and the car will automatically position my power seats in the ergonomically correct position for my dimensions? Which of course I could then adjust. Or heck, with a car that has internal cameras, why can’t it measure me and do the same with no typing. Or if that requires too many sensors in the seat, why isn’t there at least a computer program to tell me how far away my chest should be from the steering wheel, etc?” Hmm.. not sure. But we do have a lot of people from the supplier community that watch this show and maybe one of them has an answer for you. And Scott, we think you might have just given suppliers a new project to look into. Do you ever have any thoughts like this? I think it’d be great if you shared them with us. As I said, there’s a lot of people watching out there that are in the right positions. And who knows, maybe your idea could show up in a future automobile?
But that’s it for today and this week’s worth of shows, thanks for watching and have a great weekend.
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Comments (65)
October 9th, 2020 at 12:09 pm
a. French tax. So who cares???? They will buy their Lambos and Ferraris in GERMANY and then drive them across the border. France is not an independent nation but a EU member, so what can it do, impose… a TARIFF on the Lambos bought in another EU state?
WHat a DUMB idea. BUT, it is one more proof of what I told you LONG ago, Governments all over the world spend billions on electrification and impose stiff penalties on dirty cars to ENCOURAGE said electrification.
Maybe some will drop the Ferrari and the Lambo and get a clean Taycan “Turbo” S, or even a bargain priced but AWESOME performance Model S.
b. One more indication of the above is Amazon’s MASSIVE 100,000 Delivery truck order, which ensures RIvian’s survival, because I doubt many will buy its silly Pickup or SUV.
c. Mazda resurrects the STUPID rotary engine. WHo cares? Even SUbaru has twice the sales of this lame company.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:10 pm
Mazda ust cant kissoff its rotary fossil burner,lol, one of the most polluting and in- efficient ICE engines on the planet.LOL
October 9th, 2020 at 12:23 pm
Hey Sean, I hate to be the one to break the news to you and Scott Stephenson (actually, I love breaking this news), but that neat little ‘wish-cars-could-do-this’ feature Scott mentioned of having the driver’s seat adjust to ones exact body proportions is already standard in the Genesis G90 flagship sedan.
YEP!
You simply punch in your inseam, height and weight and voila! The car automatically adjusts your seating and steering wheel positions to what is recommended according to clinical analysis for a healthy back. The feature is called Smart Posture.
I know many folk simply won’t ever consider spending the money on a Genesis (I would), but this is one of the nicities you get with that car that no one else even offers as an option.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:29 pm
Wankel engines are inefficient and dirty, but are much smaller and lighter than piston engines of the same power. An occasional-use range extender sounds like an ideal application for a Wankel, if there is an ideal application.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:31 pm
@MJB – This is why we love you all. Thanks for the info and we’ll try and work it into Monday’s show.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:32 pm
3. I’ll have to visit a Genesis store sometime to try that out. It would be interesting to see how close it would come to what I’d do adjusting the seat manually.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:33 pm
3 I sure would not. You would, but you have not and will not and that is why Genesis is already dead. As proven by sales.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:34 pm
Workhorse stock probably was not affected as much because it didn’t have a deal with GM and who can really take a company named Fuzzy Panda seriously..
Surprised Mazda is still messing with the rotary engine. Even more surprising that they decided to put the engine that struggles to meet emission in a BEV as a range extender. Pair something green with something that is not.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:38 pm
@Rey – Rotary engines can be efficient at low, constant PRM, which is how it will likely be used as a range extender. They’re even more efficient when made to run on hydrogen. Not saying that’s what Mazda is going to do, but I think it’s wise to wait before writing it off.
October 9th, 2020 at 12:52 pm
@Sean – Sure thing.
@Larry D. – Well, gotta be honest with you Larry. There are several material items I’d (like to) buy, but just haven’t yet. And I don’t think I’m out of line in assuming you’ve got your own private list of such material possessions which you have yet to acquire.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Better get out of that glass house…quick.
October 9th, 2020 at 1:14 pm
9. An engine used as a range extender would almost definitely run at constant RPM. Its (relatively) compact size, is probably the main reason BMW used the scooter engine for the i3 REx, rather than a more efficient car engine they might have. A rotary engine would be even more compact for its power output.
October 9th, 2020 at 1:17 pm
8 exactly, in recent years Mazda seems to be doing nothing right and its always tiny share of US sales has been stagnant to lower.
October 9th, 2020 at 1:35 pm
Mazda has no money (it still sells mainly a 6-speed auto from ages ago) and it needs more Toyota partnerships to survive. They have some nice external designs but they dont have the volume. Lets see how their new luxury Mazda-6 RWD sedan sells. I wish them luck.
October 9th, 2020 at 2:17 pm
13 Speaking of ages ago, I just read in local Kokomo, IN news that Chrysler made their last 4-speed transmission today. I don’t know what it would have been for, as they have been using 6 or more speed for everything for a few years. Maybe they were making 4-speeds as replacement parts.
October 9th, 2020 at 2:44 pm
9 & 11 Exactly right.
Some years ago, Mazda showed off a hydrogen-powered Wankel range extender. It’s well suited to that task because the usually problematic seal in this case doesn’t lead to all kinds of noxious by-products of conventional combustion.
And it does run smoothly, if my excursions in an RX-8 are anything to go by.
I never understood why Maxda didn’t drop a Wankel into the MX-5.
October 9th, 2020 at 3:22 pm
6 good one, I would like to know what my ideal driver position would be,compared to what I prefer.
October 9th, 2020 at 3:24 pm
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/10/could-the-ram-700-foreshadow-something-smaller-for-north-america/
tiny little Rams for Brazil and LA
October 9th, 2020 at 3:28 pm
16 I don’t want Genesis’s silly gimmick, if the seat follows the contours of my body I will soon be sitting like in a Lazyboy chair watching something idiotic on TV and with food stuffed in my face. I need the car seats to be supportive, incl side support, and encourage me to take driving seriously.
October 9th, 2020 at 3:35 pm
Another neighbor here, a couple of civil engineers, have a 20 year old Honda HR-V (the CRV’s smaller sibling) in a loud, crazy orange color. The thing is roomy but really ugly, qst gen ungainly HRV. But what stands out is its ground clearance, it must be over 8-9″.
COmpare this with the ground clearance of Tesla’s self-appelled SUVs ( the sporty minivan proportioned Model X) and crossovers (the Model Y). The ground clearance in the photo of the very elegant Y looked like HALF that of the HRV, and equal to most CAR’s ground clearance.
The Model Y actually looks much more like the failed and discontinued BMW “grand coupes”, which were taller versions of its sedans with a coupe-hatchy like back. Buy in the Model Y the styling is much better, thanks to Tesla’s chief Designer, the very tall guy with the big hair they stole from… Mazda, Hans von Holtzhausen or something.
October 9th, 2020 at 4:47 pm
@14, maybe it was a replacement trans for my 2012 Jeep Liberty which has a four speed trans and runs as good as the day I got it 100k miles ago. There is something to be said for simpler things….
October 9th, 2020 at 4:54 pm
19 Tesla calls the Model Y an SUV, because the term hatchback is stigmatized in the U.S. I mostly like the Model Y, because it’s a roomy hatchback, and not lifted very much. The side profile is similar to a 3rd generation Prius, but scaled up somewhat and lifted a little.
The BMW 4 and 6 series Grand Coupes are not taller, they are just mildly swoopy hatchback versions of the cars, like Audi “Sportbacks.” The lifted BMW hatchbacks are X4 and X6. Maybe there’s another one.
October 9th, 2020 at 5:03 pm
20 That could be. They used a lot of those transmissions over the years in Liberties, Durangos, and both Dakota and big pickup trucks. I think some “middle years” of Grand Cherokees used them. The earliest GC’s used an Aisan 4-speed.
October 9th, 2020 at 10:10 pm
Mazda all electric SUV with 35 kWh battery pack? 120 miles range? with this range I suppose that is their plug in version, no?
October 9th, 2020 at 10:59 pm
I found that those last Kokomo 4-speed transmissions were probably transaxles for Dodge Journey. In its final year, it was 4 cylinder, front drive only, with a 4-speed automatic.
October 10th, 2020 at 3:23 am
21 Ι did not mean the grand coupes but the “GT” versions, if I remmeber well, of the sedans. hey were much taller than the sedan.
Tesla calls the Y and the X “SUV”s and “crossovers” because the average buyer puts a PREMIUM on these utilitarian AND safe (unlike real hatchbacks) vehicles.
THe shapes of the X and the Y have NOTHING IN COMMON with what THe VAST majority of people understand as a “hatchback”, which is the GOLF or my old CIVIC 3 door hatch.
You seem to want to call EVERYTHING that moves a hatchback, like the…. Model S (RIDICULOUS, and I do not care who agrees with that), the Model 3, the Panamera, the 911, and who knows what else. If you get SERIOUS for a moment and look at these vehicles CAREFULLY you will have to agree that the X has the proportions of a (very sporty and interesting, but still a) Minivan, and that BOTH the X and the Y are NOT SUVs just for the big reason they have ridiculous ground clearance.
THis forum sounds like that movie, GROUNDHOG DAY where we regurgitate the same old crap again and again and nobody learns it even the nth time we say it.
October 10th, 2020 at 8:22 am
25 You don’t seem to understand, but a car being a hatchback has nothing to do with price. It’s the way the rear cargo opening is configured. Golf, Civic hatch, Panamera, and Model S are all hatchbacks. Similarly, price has nothing to do with a car being a sedan. Jetta and S-Class are both sedans.
The “crossover” moniker is a little more vague. How tall does it need to be to be a crossover, rather than a hatchback. The Model Y at 67 inches would be a crossover, while the Model S, at 57 inches would be a hatchback.
October 10th, 2020 at 8:24 am
Better than opinions, my web link is to a Motortrend article about taking a couple of Model Ys to the track.
“… Zero to 60 mph in just 3.7 seconds for the Performance and 4.6 seconds for the Long Range. … unless you’re driving another Tesla or a high-end sports car, don’t try to stoplight drag a Model Y. It won’t end well for you. Also, street racing is bad, drive safely, all that. …”
October 10th, 2020 at 8:36 am
25 FYI, price has nothing to do with a car being a hatchback. It’s the rear cargo area configuration. Golf, Panamera, and Model S are all hatchbacks.
26 Thanks for the link. Interesting article.
October 10th, 2020 at 8:56 am
I liked the hatch on my 1980 Citation and I certainly didn’t have any stigma of having a hatch that seems to be prevalent to some of the buying public and the lack of acceptance that went along with it. Huge access to the cargo area was always a plus to me, and with the cover, security wasn’t a factor either.
October 10th, 2020 at 10:16 am
28 I had a Citation 2 door hatch; I liked the looks a little better than the 4 door. I had the rear seat cushion removed most of the time I had it. That gave it more floor space for stuff, and allowed the seat back to fold down flatter.
October 10th, 2020 at 2:41 pm
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/10/adventures-in-marketing-ford-stretches-the-mustang-name/
October 10th, 2020 at 3:40 pm
30 I hope Chevy refrains from making a faster Bolt, and calling it a Corvette.
October 11th, 2020 at 2:38 am
31 Actually some days ago I wanted to ask you, if Chevy made a fat hatch like the VOlt, with identical mechanicals and engine with the COrvette and sold it for the same price, would you really shell out $55k to buy it? If not, this should show you why short fat and tall hatches don’t sell.
October 11th, 2020 at 2:39 am
32 correction like the Bolt, not VOlt.
October 11th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
Regarding your show mentioning cars selecting the proper seat position: The Genesis G90 has done it for two years. Just put in your height and weight and the car will select what it determines your ideal seating position.
October 11th, 2020 at 12:29 pm
32. Probably not, but if it drove like a Corvette in all ways, and established a “following” like certain other cars, maybe.
Maybe you hadn’t noticed, but short, fat hatches sell pretty well, if “lifted” an inch or two. Crosstrek sells over 100K a year, and HR-V, Rogue Sport, Encore, etc. sell near that number.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:46 am
34 I will believe it when I see it (aka I don’t believe it will happen unless hell freezes over).
Fat hatch sales are MISERABLE for my standards, which are 300,000 to 400,000 a Year, which is achieved by SUVs and Sedans, and on top of it they cost much more than these ugly things. Not to mention they are much safer.
FOr a fat cheap hatch to sell well it should sell MORE, not MUCH LESS, than a Camry or a Rav4. TO the UNBIASED observer who is not out to make excuses for them.
I started writing an update on Euro Hybrids, plug-ins and BEVs but accidentally the text was erased. So I’ll summarize here.
THere are very cheap small to tiny hybrid hatches here, from the roomier Citroen C3 to the tiny Fiat Panda and FIat Panda Cross (LOL) which are still cheaper than the even tinier Fit 500 (cuter and retro styling sells). THey are priced dirt cheap by Euro standards, (11,400 and 12,200 for the Cross Panda Hybrids) but the non-hybrids already have high MPGs so unless you are sentenced to drive a ton of city miles in jams every day, the only benefit is lower emissions.
Some Brit outfit declared the Peugeot e-208 the “BEV car of the year”. Looking at its specs, it is quite poor compared to even the base Model 3, and its 50 km battery offers AT MOST and optimistically a very inferior 340 KM range, and cargo room is tiny.
Citroen’s non-Citroen “DS 3 Crossback E-tense”is a weird looking tall hatch claimed to be DS’s “smallest SUV” and “surprisingly luxurious” (no matter what they mean by that, it sure does not look the part), and will cost you an arm and a leg even AFTER govt subsidies AND recycling your old car it will cost you 35,919 Euros. ARE YOU KIDDING ME, poor europeans? THis is MUCH higher than the REGULAR, with NO GOvt help, much bigger, much more capable, base Tesla Model 3. and its RANGE SUCKS big time too, ‘up to’ and always optimistically, 320 KM (barely 200 miles, I bet its EPA will be 120-130 if they ever dare to bring it here)
most important, the VW id3, I assume it is smaller than the ID4 we get in the US and based on the smaller POLO not the GOlf.
45-58-77 kwh give optimistic ranges of 330, 420 and 550 KM, NOT MILES.
If you SUBTRACT the GOvt subsidy, its price of the weakest model STARTS at “less than 35,000 Euros” (must be 34,999), which makes it VASTLY INFERIOR to the CHEAPER base model 3 at $37k. Remember the euro is about $1.20, or at least $1.12-$1.15.
So, conclusion, lots of action, but Joe will be desolate to see that NOTHING here can even BEGIN to challenge the Model 3, whose price was reduced even further in CHina recently.
So the Current TOTAL DOMINANCE of Tesla in the US market will be here to stay. (the unreal 75% may go down to 60% in a few years, which is GM’s ALL TIME HIGH, but again it may NOT, with such inferior rivals).
October 12th, 2020 at 9:15 am
37 Comparing European and U.S. prices is no comparison at all, even if you convert Euros to dollars, because the European prices include the VAT which is ~20% in most countries. The Model 3 “starts” at 43,990 euros in Germany, and is not eligible for a 6000 euro incentive, available only for EVs under 40,000 euros. Tesla has an incentive to lower the price, as this article indicates.
https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/news/will-tesla-s-price-slashing-spree-next-hit-german-shores-41591267569189.html
October 12th, 2020 at 9:21 am
37 “So the Current TOTAL DOMINANCE of Tesla in the US market will be here to stay. (the unreal 75% may go down to 60% in a few years, which is GM’s ALL TIME HIGH, but again it may NOT, with such inferior rivals).”
Huh??? GM had more than 50% of the U.S. market at times during the 1960s. Tesla has less than 2%.
October 12th, 2020 at 11:09 am
#32 – Not Corvette but Chevette so I won’t spit every time I hear that name. Other options Geo Metro and Yugo.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:16 pm
38 Are you for REAL????? I said many times, GM maxed at 60, not 50%, awhy don’t you GOOGLE before you object?
AND to further waste my time, TESLA DOES have 75%, NOT 2% as you cluelessly blurt out, of ITS RELEVANT MARKET, that of PURE BEVS.
John and son said so very recently, I got the number from them.
SO TESLA DOES, UTTERLY, DOMINATE ITS MARKET OF PURE EVS IN THE USA, whether Joe and the other flat earthers choke on your food when I say it or not.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:18 pm
I ran across an interesting video about Tesla “chill mode.” The video was kind of repetitious, but the bottom line of what they found is this. Chill mode in Model S performance, Model 3 Performance, and Model 3 Standard Range Plus is a similar 7.5 to 8 seconds, about like a four cylinder or hybrid Accord or Camry.
https://insideevs.com/news/427849/video-tesla-model-s-model-3-race-chill/
October 12th, 2020 at 12:23 pm
“Larry,” you are an effing idiot. Tesla has about 2% of the US market. As far as GM, I google it a while back, and GM had over 50% a few years, but as I remember, never quite 60%. That is irrelevant to your rant. Tesla has 2%, not 50% or 60%.
Yes, Tesla dominates the BEV market, as Toyota dominates the hybrid market. So what? When EVs as a whole dominate the total market, things will be different.
October 12th, 2020 at 12:48 pm
43 Tesla doesn’t even have 2% they have 75% of that 2% of total BEVs so 1.5%.. Either way about as much as Mazda.
October 12th, 2020 at 1:22 pm
44 Yeah, I was being nice in saying 2%. Also, GM’s market share peaked at 51.1% in 1962. Ford’s market share was 60.9% in 1921.
https://www.autonews.com/article/20090601/OEM/306019739/detroit-3-domestic-brands-u-s-market-share-history
October 12th, 2020 at 1:50 pm
It’s close to 2 PM ET any reason why no new show today?
Re the Euro prices, they do include VATs of 13-24% depending on the EU member, but even then, the Fiat Panda HYBRID and the Fiat Panda CROSS Hybrid (mini sized crossover) cost only 11,800 and 12,400 Euro. The most miserable Kia or Nissan in the US costs much more, and that is before the 6^ sales tax in MI.
Tesla has done very well in Europe for years BEFORE the Model 3, sellingt many many Model Ss and some Xs, and recently pricey Model 3s, BUT you need to know it has not even BEGUN to fight in the Euro Market.
The Gigafactory in Berlin-Brandenburg will make 500,000 cars a year, initially Model 3s and Ys at lower prices than tody (No Protectionist tariffs from the Euros when you build it there!) and more importantly, soon it will be making smaller Teslas than the Model 3, that will obliterate the far inferior models I mentiond from Euro makers.
AND Tesla may import its smallest models FROM CHINA.
Investors are aware of all that, which explains the crazy rise of the already pricey stock, and the COmpany being worth twice as much as the gigantic TOYOTA.
October 12th, 2020 at 2:30 pm
re. no new show, probably Columbus day.
October 12th, 2020 at 2:33 pm
The reason for no new show is probably Columbus day.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:27 pm
As I said often, GM’s market share at its peak was about 60%. I wondered what Ford share was at FORD’s peak year and it might have been 1924:
Production Figures for 1924
Ford 1,720,795
Chevrolet 264,868
Dodge 193,861
Willys-Overland 163,000
Buick 160,411
Hudson/Essex 133,950
Durant 111,000
Studebaker 105,387
This only has the top 8 makers, but as TESLA today, Ford then clearly and utterly DOminated the Industry.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:28 pm
http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=70995&cpage=1#comment-1131364
has data for 1924 and other years.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:31 pm
http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=70995&cpage=1#comment-1131364
has data for 1924 and other years.
GM’s peak might have been 1977
Production Figures for 1977
Chevrolet 1,755,773
Ford 1,569,608
Oldsmobile 631,795
Pontiac 531,922
Buick 481,768
Plymouth 454,105
Mercury 404,650
Dodge 377,462
Cadillac 264,732
Chrysler 251,549
AMC 241,501
Lincoln 101,843
Imperial 8,830
Checker 450
October 12th, 2020 at 3:40 pm
the data in 50 copied wrong. the link has the correct numbers, Olds has over million sales in 77, pontiac and buick over 800k each.
October 12th, 2020 at 3:44 pm
the correct 1977 data show GM had a 58+% market share.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:06 pm
48 Yes, you have often said that GM’s market share was 60% at one time, but you are still WRONG, as you have been all of those previous times. Look at the link with actual data from Autonews that I posted in #45. It peaked at 51.1% in 1962. It was 45.1% in 1977.
Yes, Tesla, like Volvo and Mazda dominates the market with <2%.
52 Where did you get your data saying that GM had 58+% in 1977. Autonews says 45.1.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:30 pm
53 SERIOUSLY???? so OVER 58% is not “ABOPUT 60%” with ALL THE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES that if you ever passed close to a serious BUSINESS SCHOOL would also know??? Like Industry COncentration and the POWER the DOMINANT (Like TESLA 75% in US BEVs?) derives from that?
Nice try. YOU insisted the peak was about 50%, I correctly stated it was about 60%. IMPARTIAL OBSERVERS CAN FIGURE OUT WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT AND WHO KEEPS WASTING MY TIME AD LEARNING LITTLE.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:33 pm
54 and this is NOT the first time I mentioned the 60%, Which was seconded by GM employees who KNEW. Like I said, Ground Hog day movie all over again Keep wallowing in your ignorance.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:47 pm
But it gets worse for you, nitpicker, MUCH worse. Because I just gave you the 58+% market share in 1977. That does NOT mean there were NO years with OVER 60.00% GM MARKET SHARE.
LIKE THIS!
Production Figures for 1981
Chevrolet 1,673,093
Ford 950,301
Oldsmobile 873,678
Buick 856,996
Pontiac 489,436
Plymouth 393,633
Mercury 375,756
Dodge 340,899
Cadillac 240,189
AMC 137,125
Lincoln 69,537
Chrysler 56,726
Excalibur 235
Avanti II 200
3,893,203
6457804
do the 1st grade division and you get?
60.28679409% GM MARKET SHARE!
T H E R E !
(like you will n ow apologize for being a pest and wasting my time. But I was watching an action movie at the same time, so it was not a total loss…)
October 12th, 2020 at 4:49 pm
A few months from now, we will have the SAME stupid discussion and objections to my 100% ACCURATE statement that GM topped with OVER. NOT EQUAL, BUT OVER, 60.00% US MARKET SHARE>
October 12th, 2020 at 4:55 pm
54 Are you stupid, or just crazy? Seriously, the largest market share GM ever had was 51.1% in 1962. 51.1 is not “almost 60%.” It’s a little over 50%. GM had 45.1% market share in 1977. That is not even “almost 50%.”
https://www.autonews.com/article/20090601/OEM/306019739/detroit-3-domestic-brands-u-s-market-share-history
55 You still have not posted links from a reputable source saying that it was ever close to 60%, because it never was. You have a major mental problem. Your saying it was 60%, no matter how many times, does not make it so.
October 12th, 2020 at 4:58 pm
56 You kind of forgot Toyota, Datsun, Honda, VW, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Mitsubishi, and a few others.
October 12th, 2020 at 11:58 pm
#9
I’m curious to know if a regular ICE would also be more efficient if it ran the way you describe the Wankel engine. And if the answer is yes, how would the two compare with each other? I know a regular ICE can be more efficient if it runs in it’s sweet spot. I’m just trying to figure the bottom line.
October 13th, 2020 at 8:47 am
61 Atkinson cycle tuning increases efficiency of a piston engine, while compromising low speed power. I’d think it would be good for constant speed operation running a generator in “middle” rpm.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345875/what-is-the-atkinson-combustion-cycle-and-what-are-its-benefits/
October 13th, 2020 at 9:54 am
Kit your wasting your time the almighty Larry is too dumb to realize he is only looking at American car companies. So GM probably had over 60% among only the US car makers but toss in the imports and you get the actual number as you stated.. You would think someone with such a great education from such a prestigious university would know how to research data. Feel so sorry for all the people that he misleadingly teaches and fills their head with bogus information.
October 13th, 2020 at 9:57 am
62 That’s why many of the hybrids use Atkinson engine cycle because they have the electrical assist at the low end and don’t need as much torque but then power when they need it at higher RPM.
October 13th, 2020 at 10:17 am
64 Yep, Atkinson cycle is used mainly for hybrids. I’ve read that Atkinson engines might be used in non-hybrids, in cases where the engine is fairly large, so the low speed acceleration would be ok without the help of the electric motor(s). With today’s many-speed transmissions, I’d think it would be easy to compensate for weak low rpm torque, but using a very low gear at breakaway.