AD #2966 – Tesla Worth More Than Entire N.A. Auto Industry; Environmental Group Calls for PHEV Ban; New Nissan Note

November 24th, 2020 at 11:54am

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Runtime: 11:16

0:33 Tesla Worth More Than Entire N.A. Auto Industry
1:32 Elon Musk Now 2nd Richest Person
2:02 Environmental Group Calls for PHEV Ban
4:01 Toyota Sees Room for Tundra to Grow
5:51 U.S. November Sales Forecast to Drop
7:03 Do You Fold in Your Side-View Mirrors?
8:38 GM Pulls Support of Trump Admin. Emission Rules
9:06 Ford Mustang Mach-E Uses Uni-Body Platform
9:37 Nissan Electrifies New Note
10:12 Limited Edition Civic Type R Giveaway

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48 Comments to “AD #2966 – Tesla Worth More Than Entire N.A. Auto Industry; Environmental Group Calls for PHEV Ban; New Nissan Note”

  1. Jon M. Says:

    Most of the time I forget that both of my vehicles have fold-in mirrors, as have most the cars I’ve owned recently. I usually only think about it when I’m trying to squeeze something between both cars in the garage. And typically I forget to put the passenger side back until I start backing out of the garage!

  2. Ron Paris Says:

    Tesla: Can you say “wildly overvalued”?!

  3. WineGeek Says:

    I like PHEV vehicles. My Prius can drive me to work and home on electric 5 days a week. Then on weekends I can drive farther and not have to worry about stopping to charge. Some days I have to take a sales trip and it can be 300 miles or more and again I don’t have to waste half my day charging after a relatively short distance. I certainly hope they don’t “outlaw” PHEV vehicles I may have to be come a criminal!!!!

  4. Larry D. Says:

    For whatever it’s worth, I never, ever fold my mirrors in the E class I drive in the US. Even when I need to parallel park it at the local library branch, the street is so wide (wider than Shawn’s) that it is utterly unnecessary.

    I also never ever fold the mirrors in the small town overseas where my summer home is located. I have it under my residence next to the garden (the ground floor is just a cement floor with pillars and can easily take 8 vehicles).

    I did fold them once this fall, when I drove the car to the capital city and parked it at the city center, illegally, as many others do, where the streets are very narrow and EVERYBODY there folds their mirrors or have them broken.

    That time I folded it, I forgot to unfold the RH mirror when I drove back. I have not checked,but I don;t think they fold electrically, and the car is too wide for me to reach the RH mirror, so I started asking pedestrians to unfold it for me when I was at a traffic light. The first two either did not give a damn or were too stupid to know how to do it, or both. The third was a young woman, obviously an American tourist, and was glad to help.

  5. Larry D. Says:

    2 Don’t betray your ignorance. How much was GM, the then Largest US company, in 2008? ZERO. Because it was GM, and NOT …. Tesla, as the clueless and hate-filled well wishers here, who went BANKRUPT, and its total worth was a big round ZERO. Somehow that number reminded me of you.

  6. Larry D. Says:

    5, 2 I meant the largest US AUTOMAKER, not company of any kind, of course.

  7. MJB Says:

    Thanks for the extra segment, Sean. My sedan has automatic folding mirrors triggered by the ignition. But I can toggle them on or off as desired. I always let them fold automatically. Not because I’ve ever been afraid of them getting clipped though. I’ve just never outgrown the novelty of anything motorized that happens automatically. (i.e., speed triggered spoilers that raise and lower automatically; soft-close assisted door closers, self-levelling headlights that run through their little up-down angles whenever they get switched on, etc.)

  8. Larry D. Says:

    Your reporting on PHEVs was a surprise to me. I wonder why it is, while PHEVs have been around and on sale for more than a decade, it is only NOW that we learn of that problem.

    Pity, because I considered them an interim solution before full BEV electrification, while the supercharger network grows to its full size.

    I still considered them inferior and inefficient compred to pure BEVs because 1. they still use dirty gas or diesel engines, and 2. and more important, they have to carry the weight of TWO power plants instead of just ONE, with space losses as well.

  9. Lambo2015 Says:

    We have a Grand Cherokee with the ability to turn on or off the auto folding mirrors whenever its turned off in park. Its set to the on position but I often wonder about the constant cycling of that motor and if its worth having them fold every time. Its probably only needed about 1/2 the time. Which brings me to my other vehicle a full size Ram truck which doesn’t offer the auto folding option but it is power. I forget to do it unless I’m in a tight spot.

  10. Larry D. Says:

    Re the Toyota Tundra, I don’t buy the generalities (worthless if no specific targer numbers are given) uttered by the Toyota guy.

    If I were John, I would ask him THIS question:

    How is it that Toyota has been so successful in the compact and midsize sedan class, where it beat the living daylights of Ford and GM and FCA, and it did so poorly in the full size truck segment?

    DOn’t bother to give me the old excuse that pickup buyers are so much more patriotic than sedan buyers and they will only consider domestic.

    I don’t think the above is true and the Tundra failed even tho it is better than the F 150 (and of course the GM rival pickups, who are inferior to the `150 themselves).

    I think it is ALSO because, compared to the F 150, the Tundra SUCKS.

  11. MJB Says:

    #9. Valid concern with regard to the longevity of the motors. Check out the Grand Cherokee forums to see if anyone with your year or earlier has had trouble with their motors failing.

    I allow the ones in my 14yr old Lexus LS430 to cycle every time I enter/exit the car and haven’t had one single malfunction. And the car has even been left parked outside for the equivalent of about 3 years worth of Michigan winters.

  12. Lambo2015 Says:

    4 Really 4 paragraphs to say no. Then 2 more posts to cry about someone thinking Tesla is over-valued. Which has nothing to do with GM but you get to whine some more. LOL

  13. Lambo2015 Says:

    10 Have you ever even driven a Tundra? let alone a F-150 or GM truck? My guess by your cluelsss rant is no. Stick to what you know. which seems to only be Tesla.

  14. richard bradner Says:

    Hi Sean,

    It seems to me that banning PHEVs is a bit extreme given the current situation.
    Perhaps using the battery pack to incorporate a starting sequence similar to diesel glow plug “warm up” applied to the cat could mitigate the problem…

  15. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTsDSzbGag

    Here is a review of a 16 year old car, 3 and 4 years older than my $10.5k and $11k E class diesels, respectively.

    If you can’t afford a new POS Hyundai Elantra, I doubt you can afford this one, it recently sells for $ 1 MILLION (US dollars).

    So, Ron Paris, can you say “overvalued”?

  16. George Ricci Says:

    Banning PHEV’s? PHEV’s give you the best of both worlds. On battery power for most of your trips and no range anxiety or charging down time on long trips. The simple solution would be to run on battery until it is drained, then turn on the ICE and keep it running until the battery is up to 50% or more from regen, then switch to battery only.

    Chevrolet Volt proved that 63% of all trips could be done on battery only mode with only 35 miles of battery range.

  17. Ron Paris Says:

    You really like to hear yourself talk, don’t you Larry D? And throw in a few insults along the way. Geesh!

  18. Kevin A Says:

    Instead of banning PHEVs, it is more logical to ban ICEs that are NOT PHEVs. PHEVs are lower emission than ICEs and a relatively easy half step to BEVs. Even the catalyst problem could be reduced if catalysts had start up heaters.

  19. Lambo2015 Says:

    15 Yeah it seems an easier fix would be to include an electrical heater in the catalyst to keep it at temperature like they do with O2 sensors. Program the BHEV to not kick the gas engine on and off but run on battery until its about dead and then run the gas engine.

  20. Kevin A Says:

    2 You are correct. The dollar amount is irrelevant. What does the country get more benefit out of. Tesla? Or the rest of the entire car industry? Even Tesla cultists will eventually value Tesla like other companies and then it’s stock value will come down to earh.

  21. Drew Says:

    Spineless. Absolutely spineless. If GM agreed and supported the emissions ruling of the outgoing administration, one would believe GM did it for technical or market reasons (we all know how Obama short-sheeted the “interim” review when Hillary lost; then the present administration corrected that ploy). But now we know GM places politics ahead of science and consumers.

    Tesla market cap!?!?!? Lots of helium… and not fully explained by its S&P listing. If LD can justify it, then you know the source of the hot air.

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The trouble with most PHEVs, is that they don’t have full power from the electric motor(s), even with a full battery. With a Prius Prime, RAV4 Prime, and about all others PHEVs, except Chevy Volt, if you step on the gas, the ICE runs for a few seconds, and then shuts off after you let off of the gas. Basically, you have as many cold starts per trip, as you have moderately brisk accelerations. The Volt has a bigger electric motor, and has full power on battery, as long as the battery is charged.

    I’ve never had a car with electrically folding mirrors, but if I did, I’d turn the automatic folding off, if given the choice. While MJB (#11) has had no problems with the mirrors on his Lexus LS, I’d rather not run those motors all the time when there is no reason to. Things like that wear out eventually.

  23. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 Most PHEVs would have a 0-60 time of about 30 seconds, or would never make it to 60, if they didn’t start the ICE when you “get on it.” The now-defunct Chevy Volt is a notable exception, having full power from the electric motor.

  24. Ron Paris Says:

    21: GM has been changing course whichever way the political winds blow ever since the 2008/9 bailout. There’s a reason they’re known as “Government Motors” in some circles.

  25. Lambo2015 Says:

    23 My mistake the only hybrid Ive driven was the Volt and the Prius and I assumed like the Prius that BHEVs operated at low speeds under the electric power and switched over at 35 or whatever like the Prius I drove. That made sense to me as one could tool around an inner city where they would likely stay under 35 and use all electric. I guess a change in configuration would be needed.

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Along with GM and FCA, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Hyundai, Kia, Maserati, McLaren, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota opposed the CA rules.

    Ford, Honda, BMW, and Volkswagen sided with California. We’ll see if any others join GM in “changing their mind,” I’m guessing not. GM seems to be getting more serious about BEVs than those others. I guess the rest of the car companies have been agnostic on it, or at least they weren’t listed in the document I saw.

  27. Kit Gerhart Says:

    25 The PHEV Prius Prime does a lot more on battery only than a regular Prius, but the ICE still starts at any time, if you accelerate at all briskly.

  28. Ziggy Says:

    Why would you park on the street when you have a perfectly good driveway to use? Parking on the street just increases your risk for damage from passing cars, bicyclists, rollerbladers, etc. Is there some reason the driveway isn’t available?

    If I was head of Toyota I would fire that worthless executive that was interviewed, they should be bench marking what Ford does right with the F150 and improving on what Ford does wrong. That is how you increase market share, by building a better vehicle. His defeatist attitude is what is wrong with those in charge of designing the Tundra, if they were to get it right in design and build them to the reliability of most Toyota models they would have a hit on their hands instead of conceding defeat without even trying.

  29. RickW Says:

    Sean, I have a question regarding your statement about the number of selling days as compared to last year.
    How can Nov. 2020 have 3 less selling days when there is 30 days in the month and only Thanksgiving as a possible Holiday in the US.???
    We had Thanksgiving last year too, IIRC. lol.

    Also, why does Dec 2020 have less selling days.

  30. RickW Says:

    My Chevy Silverado has electric folding mirrors.
    I have only ever used them in a parking garage but the gripe I have with the them is that you can only fold them in after you have put the truck in Park. I have had the need to retract the passenger side mirror many time while driving when I encounter someone riding a bicycle on the right side of me. Even got cussed out by one recently when he thought I came to close to him.
    I know my distance but he obviously thought I much too close.
    Would like to retract them on the fly and before I try to squeeze the truck into a space designed for a car.

  31. Phred Says:

    For the Toyota Executive that seems to be blind to why the Tundra is “LAST ON THE SHOPPING LIST”,,, just do a spread sheet on capability. The Tundra has poor fuel economy, poor real “truck” DNA, and that MSRP is a real choker!! No surprises!

  32. wmb Says:

    Toyota, like Nissan, went to out tough the Detroit Three, with their full size trucks. that may have been the thing to do at that time, to prove that they could run with the big boys. unfortunately, just as they were putting these heavy vehicles on the road, for the market crashed, fuel went up and these robust behemoths took it on the chin! but i think the Big Three has really given Toyota a clear road map to put the Tundra directly in compete with them: light weighting and powertrain engineering! when Ford went to aluminum, while it did loose weight, because it was already heavy and the new tech they put in it added pounds, they only put them selves on par with the likes of their competition. Adding to that, the hoped for mpg improvements weren’t as great as many had thought they would be. Then Chevy and Ram lost weight by using other means to shed the pounds. The Tundra could follow Ford, or, better yet, follow Chevy and Ram! Then, Toyota was already a leader in hybrid tech, so having a hybrid in their line up should have been almost a given. that was the promise with the hybrids in the Lexus GS and LS sedans. The GS was suppose to have the power of a V8, with the fuel economy of a six cylinder and the LS was the economy of a V8 and the power of a V12. What hurt those vehicles was the weight penalty. In a full size truck it would be easier to get around that, as the new F-150 shows. To save costs, they could have the next Tundra share a platform with the Tacoma, offer the V6 of the top dog Tacoma as the base in the Tundra and hybridize that V6 as the median engine offering and, finally, the V8. The last thing with the Tundra, is its styling. the Titan is a hodge-podge of ideas from other automakers that has a hard time coming together as its own. while the current Ram is a thing of exterior beauty, IMHO, its not as eye catching as the last model year. i wouldn’t have a problem with them straight up copying one of the Detroit Three, especially if they can figure out a way to make it look better (i.e.: the look of the Silverado have polarized Chevy’s diehard fans; could Toyota figure out a way to make that look work for them? Obviously they won’t win over Chevy fans, but will they pick-up more of their own? just a though). While Toyota may be satisfied with not slogging it out with the Detroit Three for sales of full size vehicles, but I’m sure they would lose to have sales in 600K plus mark!

    Sean, I think your right that the next vehicle on the Mach-E platform, will be a Lincoln. That’s why I believe they will be discontinuing the Nautilus, in the next few years. Exciting times ahead!

  33. Bobby T Says:

    22, I agree. If the electrically folding mirror motor fails, you might have to replace the entire mirror and maybe even have it painted. I shudder to think what one costs. The mirrors on my Flex are manual, and I only fold them when I pull into the garage (winter only) and sometimes when I pull up to my mailbox. There is a “wicked skinny” bridge across the Delaware at Washington Crossing PA and people fold them when crossing.

  34. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28,31 If Toyota really wanted to compete with F-series, it would take a huge investment, and they still probably wouldn’t make too much of a dent. All of the “Detroit Three” have far more choice in powertrain, body style, bed length, “light duty” and “heavy duty,” etc. At least Tundra far outsells Titan. The Tundra is quick, in spite of being heavier than the competition, but is seriously thirsty with its only engine, a 5.7 V8. There were other engine choices, but they were discontinued, at least for 2020 model year.

  35. ChuckGrenci Says:

    I have one vehicle with electrically folding mirrors and one with manually folding mirrors but both are used rarely. At home I park in the driveway so the only time I use the folding mirrors is if I use the garage (it is an 8 foot wide, so narrow) but eases entry if folded). Generally parking away from home doesn’t involve street parking, but if it did, I still probably haven’t ever used them.

  36. Buzzerd Says:

    I’ve folded my mirrors a few times ever but I rarely park on the street and I life in a small town- but it has large streets, Not as much in winter but large enough.

  37. Kit Gerhart Says:

    The mirrors on my ‘89 Caravan don’t fold, even manually, so I need to be extra careful not to hit anything with them.

  38. Steve Henderson Says:

    Living in a golf cart community presents constant problems. Old people can’t drive for starters. Both our vehicles sit in the driveway & sometimes that’s not safe. I fold the right mirror in on my truck manually only to make it easier to get in between the vehicles. The junk plastic gears that GM produce last as long as you can hold your breath. The fix are aftermarket brass gears. My wife’s Honda CR V does not have automatic mirrors but can be folded. It’s in the driveway & we never touch them.

  39. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.autonews.com/future-product/musk-hints-again-tesla-hatchback-europe?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20201124&utm_content=article9-image

    I don’t have a subscription but none was required to read THIS important article.

  40. Larry D. Says:

    39 the Bloomberg graph is particularly interesting because it shows the VAST differences in market penetration of BEVs in the US and overseas.

    Europe is already above 9%,

    the VAST CHina market is close to 5% (and both growing rapidly),

    the US is less than 2% (and half its BEVs are in CA, so the rest of it has HUGE growth potential still),

    and Japan for some strange reason is dead last (they have a ton of hybrids and tiny clown cars with 600 cc engines, but not many BEVs) with less than 0.5%

  41. ChuckGrenci Says:

    #40 You still have to ask: without incentives and regulation, what would the percentages be for BEV. Until the playing field is equal, the answer (while inevitable) will remain elusive. Penetration will continue, but quite frankly, now, it is still somewhat artificial. I am not averse to buying ‘electric’, and will probably consider a BEV in the future, but it will be for the right reason(s); it must make sense for me and the scale will need to tilt to the fact it is more beneficial than ICE.

  42. Bob Wilson Says:

    We’ve owned two PHEV: (1) Prius Prime, and (2) BMW i3-REx. Using OBD scanners, both have a single catalytic converter warm-up that takes close to ~45 seconds. Then the Prius Prime runs about 2-4 minutes to bring the engine coolant to operating temperature. In contrast, the BMW i3-Rex runs until the car is powered down or runs out of gas. EV range is the problem.

    The 25 mile Prius Prime was a 3-stop, EV car around town. In contrast the 72 mile BMW i3-Rex is a 10-stop EV. We traded the Prius Prime in for our Tesla Model 3 and kept the BMW i3-Rex as backup.

    PHEV range should be the criteria with at least 50 miles EV range. Around town, the engines will seldom run and avoid the catalytic converter warm-up.

  43. Bob Wilson Says:

    #2 – “Tesla: Can you say “wildly overvalued”?!” Well it depends upon how many shares you own. I bought TSLA at ~$60 split adjusted. With S&P 500 inclusion and Q4 2020 production, I’ll wait until the Q1 2021 financials come out to possibly take profits.

  44. Larry D. Says:

    41 I totally disagree with you. TESLA has PROVEN it can dominate the US BEV market, with a HUGE 75% market share, NOW, when NONE of its vehicles gets the despicable $7,500 tax credit, which only the LOSERS get, the makers of inferior BEVS nobody buys. Thank your CORRUPT and stupid US CONGRESS for that. I do not have the time to further explain to you all the HUGE BREAKS ICE cars get, not the least of which is DIRT CHEAP GAS, a HUGE HUGE HUGE subsidy, which NO OTHER SERIOUS ADVANCED INDUSTRIAL NATION has.

    SO YOU ask yourself all of the above.

  45. Larry D. Says:

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/11/u-s-government-awards-huge-transportation-contract-to-uber-lyft/

    44 SECONDS after I mentioned the corrupt congress, the US Government strikes back: (while Trump is still president until Jan 29, apparently the corrupt DEEP STATE could care less. I QUOTE:

    “As things currently stand, neither Uber or Lyft have ever turned a profit from their services. While we cannot say whether the new government contract will change that, it certainly likely won’t hurt. Then again, ridership is down on account of the pandemic and a subset of the populace has started shunning Lyft/Uber due to their increasingly overt political messaging and questionable business practices.

    Speaking of politics, the contract decision came hot on the heels of the GSA’s decision to name Joe Biden is the apparent winner of the 2020 presidential election. Interestingly, Lyft hired a lobbyist to help it push through Prop 22 who previously worked as the director of legislative affairs for Biden when he was still vice president. Matt Olsen, the former general counsel of the National Security Agency (NSA) who went on to serve as Uber’s chief security officer, also has a spot on Biden’s transition team.”

    Do I smell Solyndra 2.0? (you forgot Solyndra, didn;t you?)

    DISGUSTING. THese will be 4 LONG and joyless years for any DECENT person in the USA.

  46. Kit Gerhart Says:

    It makes sense for the government to use Uber and Lyft. I see dozens of rarely used government cars at an installation I visit on a regular basis. They need to be maintained, even though many probably sit days or weeks between uses. It would make much more sense to use Uber to take people to the airport, local stores, etc., than having all of these cars sitting around. Oh, and Larry, it is Trump’s GSA that made the decision.

    As far as Uber and Lyft not making money, why do they not make money? They syphon off tens of millions of dollars from the drivers, and their only expense is maintaining phone apps.

  47. Kit Gerhart Says:

    40 Japan is probably low in BEV usage for the same reason as Cocoa Beach, Florida, a lot of people living in high density housing, with no place to charge an EV.

  48. Robert A Young Says:

    I used to have the automatic mirror folding and dip for reverse active on our Lexus. However, right near the end of warranty the mirrors died, replacement at near $1000 each prompted me to disable the automated features.