AD #3005 – Hyundai Elantra Impressions; GM Plans to Ditch ICEs By 2035; VW Opens 1st EV Battery Recycling Plant

January 29th, 2021 at 11:56am

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Listen to “AD #3005 – Hyundai Elantra Impressions; GM Plans to Ditch ICEs By 2035; VW Opens 1st EV Battery Recycling Plant” on Spreaker.

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Runtime: 10:49

0:08 GM Plans to Ditch ICEs for Light Vehicles By 2035
0:57 Thursday’s Stock Market Results
1:55 Elon Musk Confirms Future Product Details
3:59 A Hack Proof Wiring System?
5:20 Hyundai Second Guesses Apple Partnership
6:04 Daimler’s Operating Profit Better Than Expected
7:03 Hyundai Elantra Impressions
8:28 Hyundai Partners Up to Build VTOL Hub
9:28 Volkswagen Opens First EV Battery Recycling Plantnt

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31 Comments to “AD #3005 – Hyundai Elantra Impressions; GM Plans to Ditch ICEs By 2035; VW Opens 1st EV Battery Recycling Plant”

  1. Marshy Says:

    For ships that need to charge and likely spend most of their time on the ground, that port seems to not have enough area to accommodate air vehicle traffic.

  2. buzzed Says:

    So we are rushing head strong into electric vehicles despite the fact there’s a lack of infrastructure, we don’t know how people who park on the street or are in isolated areas are going to charge, we can’t recycle the batteries in large numbers, the range is too small for many parts of the country let alone the world…
    Yes this should go swimmingly.

  3. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    A lot of words in that GM announcement. Reading between the lines though, I forecast that there will be a mix of BEVs and Plug-In Hybrid vehicles by 2035 from GM. Otherwise there would be no reason to continue investing in: “Stop/Start, aerodynamic efficiency enhancements, downsized boosted engines, more efficient transmissions and other vehicle improvements, including mass reduction and lower rolling resistance tires.”

    That would also align with their strategy plan in that announcement. By mid-decade their announcement shows that they will not be 100% BEV by 2050. Therefore they have to be Plug-In Hybrid which they could then claim as “zero emission”. This would make sense for the trucks. A Plug-In Hybrid truck would allow someone to drive mostly electric on their daily commute, but have the ICE as a back up when they need to tow things long distance.

    That is how I saw it at least.

  4. Mac Says:

    Mary Barra will be long gone and forgotten by 2035. I place about as much credence in this latest “bombshell” as I do in the 12 – 24 month weather forecast.

  5. Kit Gerhart Says:

    3 Good aerodynamic efficiency, low rolling resistance tires, and weight reduction are useful for EVs, as they are for gas vehicles. Transmissions and piston engines may be about as advanced as they will get. Do you really need more than 10 speeds for an automatic transmission?

    From the linked news release, “an aspiration to eliminate tailpipe emissions from new light-duty vehicles by 2035.” That sounds like pure EVs, if they are going to “eliminate tailpipe emissions.” Of course, it’s an “aspiration,” which could be subject to change, as reality sets in.

  6. merv Says:

    thanks for another great week of automotive news

  7. cwolf Says:

    It seems like particulate polution will be gaining more attention when more EV’s hit the roads. The extra weight of the EV is harder on tires than ICE cars.
    On a different topic: If there is a chip shortage, why not offer basic cars that don’t have all these new devices that I, for one, am not crazy about. Doing so would also reduce the weight of these EVs and make them more affordable.

  8. Tuck&Roll Says:

    Just added this to counter the electric hysteria:

    Roughly 30% of the cost of an electric car is the battery; depending on the manufacturer the battery must be replaced every 3 to 5 years. Work those numbers and tell me how Joe 6-pack is ever convinced to buy an electric car. (You have to bring back those $100,000 a year jobs on the Keystone pipeline so he can afford the electric car you want him to buy.)
    Over the life cycle of an electric – that life cycle as in production of the battery to deliver to a junk yard for recycling – any of the current models of electric car have a larger carbon footprint than the average SUV or my F-150. Let that sink in for 1 moment. Now remind me why we on this jihad to convert to electric cars.
    Most of the minerals needed for the manufacturing of the batteries come from China. Let that sink in for just 2 moments and consider the potential ramifications of more dependency on the CCP.

  9. Drew Says:

    8 – We are on this road to EV Land for several reasons. First, a majority of scientists have been sounding alarms about climate change…. of which fossil fuels and bovine farts are huge contributors.

    Second, too much of the world’s source of oil comes from regions of the world that hate us. Why make them richer? (I know we have become more self reliant, but it’s not an infinite supply).

    Third, EVs are simpler to maintain with fewer parts to go wrong… offering the potential for higher customer satisfaction… i.e., once you buy one, you may not buy many other ICEs. I recognize this may not apply to many people for quite some time (apartment/condo dwellers and residents of many sparsely populated “fly-over” states.

    Fourth, the instantaneous torques of EVs is intoxicating.

    Having said all this, the knocks against EVs are charger access, charging times, dubious supply of battery guts, a time bomb of battery disposal, and (to a less extent) driving range. If and when solid state batteries are perfected and affordable, nearly all the resistance to EVs will go away. No pun intended.

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    9 Charger access is the main deterrent to my considering an EV as one of my cars. Those other things are significant, with probably some unknowns about how good battery recyclability will become, when a lot of batteries are at the end of life.

    8 Batteries last a lot longer than 3-5 years, normally at least 10, but there are too few older EVs on the road to really know what “average” battery lifetime will be.

  11. Kit Gerhart Says:

    7 There would be more particulates from tires if there were a lot of EVs, but fewer of those unhealthy to breath very small particulates from GDI turbo engines.

    Does anyone know what actual chips there are shortages of? Is it microprocessors, small power devices for window motors, or ?. I have no idea, but am curious, if anyone here knows.

  12. cwolf Says:

    Do you know how to roll up your car windows, adjust your seats and mirrors, read roadway signs,look both ways at intersections and when backing up and nsmart enough not to tailgate?
    Well… if you are a good driver you do… so noone NEEDS these lazy driver devises that require chips. It’s that simple. I bet the price of a vehicle could be reduced by $5K or more if manufactures offered basic transportation. Then I’ll become more interested in an EV; And since the floor in the EV is flat, lets bring back bench seats!

  13. Tuch&Roll Says:

    Anyone who advocates the electric hysteria has a naive understanding of systems, from lust to dusk. Where do you think all this electricity is coming from? We have no coal, we have no oil, we have no nuclear. And you naively believe that dolor will supply all of the world, let alone America? We already have rolling blackouts in California. Wait until it rolls over your are of the country. Picture a hot summer day when all the air conditioners are on and all the electric cars are charging in all the major cities. Oh, and at the end of your 10 year battery life span what are the land fills going to do with those batteries when they are filled up? 17 million SARR and all battery powered. Brilliant.

  14. Drew Says:

    12 – I appreciate your plea for responsible drivers. But, we have a generation of distracted drivers with phone/texting addictions and a large aging population with declining reaction capabilities and degrading night vision. So, we need to accept the era of driver assist systems… automated emergency braking, lane keeping, auto headlamps and auto high beams.

  15. Kit Gerhart Says:

    12,13 The driver assist stuff must not cost too much to do, if you make a lot of it, because it is standard in a base Corolla.

  16. Drew Says:

    14 – It’s about $500 of material cost, not counting the engineering development and tooling costs. So, an OEM needs to recovery about $1000 per unit of revenue to cover the fully accounted cost. My cost estimates reflect a long range radar, a forward-looking camera, two flanking medium range radar, wiring, processors, and displays. It adds up.

  17. cwolf Says:

    14). If these things add little cost, then there should be no problem to design these things so they can be turned off.

  18. Kit Gerhart Says:

    16 The annoying part on my Camry can be turned of, and stays off.

  19. cwolf Says:

    I’ve been reviewing financial reports sent to me about where they think investments are headed. They believe susstainable investments will increase 25% from current levels.
    Besides trends we already know of, like hyb./el (even in short leg air planes), high speed rail, improved infrustructure, they predict hydrogen will be another big winner.
    Due to rapid growth in technology, hydrogen production will continue to find it in more semi fuel tanks in the near future in a big way. Also, its use in medium and small aircraft will see benifits from its use.
    Predictions that fuels derived from oil will dwindle in the next 5-10 years should be looked at realistically. we will still depend on oil for another 30+ years. We will still need all the various lubricants, like grease, and amazingly to make clothing materials, pharmaceuticals and even food stuffs. And the ICE will still be around in forms, including generators, cranes and other large equiptment.
    You won’t get rich investing in sustainables and green hydrogen now but values could easily go beyond gains of 6-8% in the very near future.

  20. Tuck&Roll Says:

    One more try. Wake up and smell the gasoline. It’s the smell of horsepower. All, stop with the electric hysteria. Why are the lemmings running off the edge? Electric may have a place in compact cities, but it doesn’t in the long expanses of the American west or the outback. We are not all going to be driving electric, no matter what you wish. Ford said we would be driving AI by 2021. We’ll, here we are. And GM said we would be driving hydrogen. GM is going to be loosing big time on this electric folly. Leave these electric cars to the niche market. Just like at the turn of the 20th century electric was tried and abandoned for more energy rich gasoline. Nothing, did I mention nothing, has the BTUs of gasoline.

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 The investment I’m a little concerned about is bond funds. About 25% of my money is in them, and they could crash if interest rates start rising. I’d be inclined to sell some now, except where do you put the money?

  22. Kit Gerhart Says:

    19 Most driving is not in “long expanses of the American west or the outback.” Most trips are less than 20 miles. The big thing lacking for EVs in the US is basic charging infrastructure, especially for people living in high density housing in urban areas where EVs are so desirable.

    I’m highly skeptical about GM sticking with their current plan to make everything electric by 2035, unless they consider BEVs, plug-in hybrids, and regular hybrids to all be “electric.”

    Car companies, and oil companies will need to adapt to the future, or they will have a “Kodak Moment,” but they need to be able to adjust their plans in an ongoing basis, as realities are known.

  23. cwolf Says:

    Kit, this is a time to trust in having a balanced portfolio. I continue to have the proper balance. Presently bonds in the US banking system have taken a slight hit, but other types have inclined. They tend to balance themselves out, but my advisor keeps abreast of the feds in regard to bank bonds. I believe we will reduce my bond holdings once 2 things occure. First, a market correction. Second, seeing what happens to the ecomony as the stimulus takes effect, job numbers and agressiveness of the buisiness sector. There are high expectations under this administration that there will be no drastic negatives during this half of the year. The stock market will remain robust, perhaps not the gains we had of 11-14%.
    In preparation, I will be increasing the amount of my stock holdings by 20%.
    You really need a finacial advisor if you do not have one. They will know how to handle your bond holdings and where to put them at the right time.

  24. cwolf Says:

    Many countries already are working with the oil companies to plan for the future in the EV world. Many have invested in charging networks and in hydrogen developemnt. Governments are depending on them to use their vast wealth to invest in these types of infrastructures siince govt tills are strained.

  25. Kit Gerhart Says:

    22 I have someone who is basically a financial advisor, but who also sells investments. I don’t think he has any incentive to sell one type investment over another, though, and I have done well, overall, with his recommendations over the last ~20 years. I’ll be talking to him in a few weeks.

  26. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    To me a balanced solution between Electric/Hybrid/ICE is the best right now based on current technology. Anyone who is on the extreme of anything (Like the all BEV or nothing crowd or the all ICE or nothing crowd) are in the wrong.

    BEVs will work for some, BEVS will not work for others. That is how it will always be until there are some major technological breakthroughs in battery technology and cost parity. To me, the battery charge times are the biggest factor causing issues though.

    You can give someone 600 miles of range and they would still have “range anxiety”. The reason why there are no range anxiety issues with ICE cars, such as the Pontiac Fiero that could only go 200 miles between fill ups, is because it literally takes less than 2 minutes to fill up a Pontiac Fiero and you are on your way again. It takes the Ford Mach-E 45 minutes to charge up for 200 miles. That drives anxiety.

    The fact that you could be stuck somewhere with no charger access. Even if there was charger access, your still stuck there for a long time assuming you are first to the charger. If you are second or third to the charger and have to wait for everyone else to complete their 45 minute charge times; you will be stuck there for hours. Well beyond the “stretch your legs” time and straight into the “highly annoyed” time.

    Right now BEV drivers don’t deal with that too often because so few are driving BEVs(<2% of the market). Soon enough they will be stuck for hours waiting for their superchargers. Getting mad at the persons who are charging while they are stuck in their BEV waiting and significantly delaying their trip plans. It has already happened in some locations on Holiday weekends. Everyone blows it off as a fluke, but it is simply a foreshadowing of things to come when BEVs get to scale with current battery technology.

    Solve charge times though, and everyone could have a BEV in their driveway(assuming price parity).

  27. Bob Wilson Says:

    Tesla and their SuperChargers work great for long distance driving. The other EVs have challenges but progress is being made as they try to catch-up.

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    For now, BEVs work great as commuter cars for those who can charge them at home. Teslas work well for longer trips, for people like Bob W. who don’t mind taking a 30-45 minute break every 2-3 hours. For me, EVs just wouldn’t work. I have no place to charge at home, and when taking long trips, usually traveling alone, I like going 400-450 miles between stops, and then continuing after a ~10 minute stop.

  29. Bob Wilson Says:

    #27 – It is a 15-20 minute stop every 2-2.5 hours. We charge just enough to reach the next SuperCharger to get the fastest charging rate. Think motorcycle style driving between short fuel stops.

  30. Kit Gerhart Says:

    28 This is what the Tesla site shows for the trip I take twice a year:

    https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2020_Performance&o=Cape%20Canaveral,%20FL%2032920,%20USA_Cape%20Canaveral%20Brevard%20County%20FL@28.3922182,-80.60771319999999&s=&d=Kokomo,%20IN,%20USA_Kokomo%20Center%20Township%20Howard%20County@40.486427,-86.13360329999999

    Their time estimate is 4 hours and 49 minutes longer than google maps’ estimate for the same trip. Bob, if you see this, do you know what speed is used for Tesla’s estimates? I guess google uses the posted speed limit, but I’m not sure.

  31. Kit Gerhart Says:

    29 It’s another ~1.5 hours for a Standard Range Plus.