AD #3190 – Tesla Now Worth $1 Trillion; Mercedes Delays U.S. EQC Again; Can New Polestar 2 Boost Sales Performance?

October 26th, 2021 at 11:52am

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Runtime: 10:49

0:07 Tesla Now Worth $1 Trillion
0:43 Tesla Model 3 Tops European Sales Chart
1:20 Canoo Taps Panasonic for Battery Supplies
2:02 Panasonic Reveals Prototype 4680 Cell
3:17 Volta Trucks Looking for Sales & Service Locations
4:14 Audi Launching RS 3 Sedan & Sportback
5:51 Mercedes Delays U.S. EQC Again
7:08 Can Single Motor Polestar 2 Boost Sales Performance?
8:52 Wild Porsche Raises Awareness for Good Cause

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31 Comments to “AD #3190 – Tesla Now Worth $1 Trillion; Mercedes Delays U.S. EQC Again; Can New Polestar 2 Boost Sales Performance?”

  1. Norm T Says:

    Allot EV news at the top, ICE sprinklings at the bottom.

  2. Kevin A Says:

    Sean, I hear a lot of talk about ‘dealer rights’. What actually constitutes a dealer. If an OEM had a ‘test drive’ site but you had to buy the car online, would it still be a dealer? What if the location was ‘repair only’ and sales were online? If an existing OEM introduced a new ‘brand’ could they set up a sales process like Tesla? Just trying to understand what other OEMs could do to level the playing field with Tesla not having to have dealers.

  3. Rey Says:

    The Panasonic 4680 battery is only one ot the other suppliers , LG is also developing its own 4680 production line and will sell to Tesla , it seems, and Tesla will have its own 4680 battery production lines as well, plus the CATL LFP contract, which is much cheaper, can charge to 100% without affecting battery life, disadvantage? Less energy dense, meaning heavier battery pack , tires will wear faster as a result, The Hertz fleet will probably use CATL LFP batteries to keep cost down.

  4. Lambo2015 Says:

    The new 4680 cell has 5X the capacity of the 2170 but looks to be about 2-3X larger in size. So is maybe 2X the capacity for the same area? Still a great improvement but just saying its 5X the capacity is kind of misleading.

  5. Wim van Acker Says:

    @3, 4: what does the 4680 stand for? I tried to look it up and cannot find it.

  6. Rey Says:

    #2 VW might go that way, ( I think they already have) , and in Europe I think that is the way VW does it, The USA Dealership model is kind of unique to the US market,etc, with NADA having bought politicians of all stripes, and levels of Gov’t, you can check out Michigan and GMs actions on these, and as John McElroy said change is needed and maybe the US Supreme Court has to act , you have to go way back into history as to the why and how this came about, Automakers vs Dealers, but Tesla never had a Dealer model of sales, and as Michael Dunne has said the Chinese probably won’t have that type of sales model when they come.Theyll want to go Tesla style.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    2 Kevin I believe most of the dealership protection laws are aimed at manufacturers selling direct. So no matter what they do with the building and offering service or test drives, they would still have issues with the sales not being through the dealership.
    Seems silly, I know and will most likely change in the coming years, but for now until the laws are changed those start ups will face the same issues as Tesla.
    I liked the idea that Elio had with contracting pep boys to be their dealerships. Tesla should do the same and avoid the dealership nonsense and work something out with Autozone or some place that can provide service and already has the buildings. No need to build dealerships so customers can take delivery.

  8. Sean McElroy Says:

    @Wim #5 – it refers to the size – 46mm X 80mm

  9. Rey Says:

    #4&5, size format 4680 , as in Wide46mm×long80mm, this was the size Tesla battery engineers came up with for optimization, I guess in mass manufacturing, if you look closely at the production videos, it looks like an adaptation of a Pop can manufacturing facility, and Elon “batteries coming out like from a machine gun”, way back in Giga 1 Nevada concept, now that Tesla has bought numerous companies with Automation expertise and aquired Hibar and Maxwell for their battery expertise he/ Tesla will execute those ” machine building the machine”, that produces Batteries ,Cars, Supercharging Station , Solar Roofs,Fugly CYBRTRKs that need no paint, and now Robots. Oh those new 4680 batteries will be ” structural packs , as in not much casings , as detailed why put the batteries in a can and then another can? There is a video that Youtube Vlogger Voit in Germany shows the concept, the Seats actually onto to the batteries! Get ready for High Voltage shock of your life.LOL

  10. Kit Gerhart Says:

    2 As of last May, a Tesla place near me in Florida was “service only.” I think they planned to sell there. I’ll find out in a few days when I return to Florida.

  11. Rey Says:

    #4 there will be lesswiring for one less cans for two there are thousands of 21u0 cells vs hundred of 4680s same was in 18650 vs 2170 cells some people say cooling cylindrical cells are easier than pouch or Prismatic cells, and there were less issues with cylindrical cells than Bolts, even @ over a million Tesla sold, and counting, also the startups Lucid and Rivian , and now Canoo have gone Cylindrical, maybe they know something Tesla knows or GM and VW does not know. Ford is going with SKInnovation , and will be similar to LG pouch cells. Interesting times ahead, one thing for sure, the Battery Genie is out of the bottle, ain’t no putting it back, like GM or the company they sold out to did with the EV 1

  12. Kit Gerhart Says:

    5 It means 46mm diameter and 80mm length.

  13. Kit Gerhart Says:

    4 I looks the the 4680 cells have lower energy density than 2170 cells, if they have only 5 times the capacity. The 4680s have 5.484 times the volume.

  14. John McElroy Says:

    #2. Dealer franchise laws in the US did not go into effect until after WWII. Each state has its own franchise laws. Before WWII automakers would often announce arbitrary price cuts or hikes, with dealers often reading about it in the newspaper with no advanced warning. Sometimes the factory would sell overstocked cars during slow sales periods, competing directly against their dealers. So franchise laws were written to protect dealers from that practice. The laws also state that automakers which sold cars through dealers must always do so. That would seem to leave Tesla and other startups which never used the franchise system to sell direct. But powerful dealer lobby groups in many states have successfully limited what the startups can do. And there is no way for traditional automakers to try and do an end-run around them.

  15. Wim van Acker Says:

    @8, 9, 11, 13: thanks
    @9: thanks for the explanation. If TESLA has developed/acquired all capabilities to build critical components, the vehicles, and other critical systems like chargers, that seems to me like a significant competitive advantage for TESLA in an industry where the others, the followers, will be dependent on suppliers or still have to develop the know how.

  16. Rey Says:

    along and Tesla had to blaze a trail to make BEVs fashionable, even as on this website we have doubters and big question marks arise, Elon has the gift of trying to overcome disadvantages and looking far into the future, as his Mom says,and distills things to its core and looks into vertical integration as the root to bring costs down , a look into Space X is enlightening , in an early interview , I think with Scott Pelley in 60 minutes he is amazed that raw materials come in to the factory and out comes Rockets, as in mass production, a feat that is not rivaled yet as of today, not even established Aerospace giants like Boeing and ULA( They have yet to deliver an Astronaut to the ISS,and will be delayed by two more years it seams, as Software and other hurdles persist. You can follow Teslarati Website for more information on Elon companies , and what makes him tick, I’m just another fan , and PROBABLY a Larry as many here often say, but in Electrek and Teslarati there are hundreds of Larrys.LOL

  17. Merv Peters Says:

    best show ever

  18. Rey Says:

    #16 oooppps auto correct , Elon and Tesla…..
    #15 another thing is Tesla is based in Silicon Valley , and is very much a Software and Electronics hardware/ computer integration company , the FSD computer is developed inhouse , Elon / Tesla hired the best AI and computer designer money can buy , he is Andrej Karpathy. AV- autonomous Vehicles is extremely hard, and it is a race between the Chinese startups and Tesla and others, but a comparo with apples to apples should be done very soon as GM with its Cruise Automation and Fords Blue Cruise and others like Lucid is due in the near future, im talking serious stuff, like in no GEOFENCING, pure AI, let the car navigate without driver intervention,

  19. Kit Gerhart Says:

    A couple articles I found comparing 2170 and 4680 cells make no sense at all, and one of them was IEEE. They say that the 2170 cells are 5000 mAH, and the 4680 cells are 9000 mAH. The cells are the same voltage, so with those numbers, the big cells store less than twice the energy, not 5 times, even though the 4680s have more than 5 times the volume. There must be some error there.

    As far as cell configuration, it is looking like cylindrical cells are the way to go for cars. They are not used for phones and laptops, because they would not package at all well. No one wants an inch thick smart phone, but for cars, that is not an issue. I have a multiband portable radio that uses one 18650 cell. That makes a lot of sense, in that when the cell goes bad, it can be easily replaced, the same as if they’d used a single C cell, except the 18650 can be recharged many times.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    18 Tesla is now, or will soon be based in Texas, land of cowboys and guns everywhere. Yeah, the Austin area doesn’t particularly fit the usual Texas stereotypes.

  21. Sean Wagner Says:

    19 Kit – I don’t think there’s good current data on Tesla’s 4680 cells in the public domain. Will gladly be proven wrong. They’re still working out some mass-manufacturing kincks and (gulp) maybe concurrently evolving the cell further. How else to keep Tesla newbies sharp and hone that edge?

    Conversely, there’s a lot of literature covering mixed materials. Cadillac went that way with the CT6, and even had a decently-sized die-cast Aluminum part they were quite proud of. It’s even featured here:

  22. Rey Says:

    Boca Chica is where Space X Has its biggest footprint from what I know and is a few miles from Giga Austin,Elon moved there, sold 5 or 6 of his California houses,or is in the process of selling all of them,( not sure where his 7 kids live) as in the news, he has a small house near or in Space X compound, looks like a Prefab house, everything is bigger in Texas except his house it seems , the Texas Giga is nearly a mile long and minimum 3 floors high judging by the many drone shots, and easily the biggest by factory Floor Space . And there is a recruitment drive ongoing , i think and the university grads are welcome, Giga Texas will have an opening soon, like Berlin Country Fair Festival with Carnivals and Ferris Wheel it seems.
    Elon works long hours,often in Boca Chica ,on the Rockets,and as with the Sandy Munro One on One interview , late into the night with the rocket engineers.

  23. Sean Wagner Says:

    Incidentally, my local Swiss mobility provider (glorified car rentals) is now adding the Seat Mii, VW ID.3, and Tesla Model 3 EVs. I had a talk with a technician and he sang the praises of Tesla’s mobile rangers, specifically in contrast to conventional service.

    Even though Tesla still is wedded to those idiosyncratic end-of-quarter sprints, coming in tops overall (!) with the Model 3 in September in Europe is noteworthy. People seem to have no qualms about buying cars made in China either.

    gm really should aim to get the Lyriq into overseas showrooms asap. At least virtual ones – Tesla has had no problems with their sales model here. None. Nada.

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I just learned something about these cylindrical batteries. They are very low current, compared to the flat batteries I use for model airplanes. The airplane batteries have “C” ratings, a number multiplied by the mAH capacity giving the safe current draw for the battery. The airplane batteries have “C” ratings up to 50, and maybe higher, and nearly all are 30 or higher. A 2000 mAH C30 battery can be discharged at 60 amps. On the other hand, a 5000 mAH 21700 cell I found has a maximum current rating of 15A, a “C” rating of 3. Of course, the high discharge rate batteries I use for model airplanes don’t last very long, 3 years with fewer than 100 cycles is typical.

  25. Rey Says:

    #24 to my knowledge Teslas panasonic cells have Teslas unique chemistry as Jeff Dahn was a partner for years for getting the most life and longetivity of the cells, R&D with him and Dalhousie is still on going, last i heard.Tesla BMS are also unique in that each cell was fuse, a short or a cell that fails is taken out of the circuit,and there were 4000+ cells in a Tesla mod S, latest teardown of i think of the Plaid pack shows more streamlined pack system. But think of this,the modS plaid is a nearly 4800 pound of 4drsedan, yet the Rimac Nevera is Carbon Fiber, probably is 1500 to 2000 pounds less and is a 2 seater, but it accelerates only.5 seconds less than a bigger car, has quad motors,the math does not compute, on most other aspects the Nevera is superior, but @ $2,000,000?

  26. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Interestingly, the Model S Plaid uses the little 18650 cells, but a lot of them. That configuration must be good for pulling lots of current for a period of time, like going from 0-150 mph.

  27. Sean Wagner Says:

    24 Kit – Very interesting. So those model airplane batteries are used similarly to racing engines! A C-rate of 3 is indeed the common upper boundary for EV battery cells. Which is why I’d like to know more about the Ioniq 5′s super-fast charge rate.

    The Plaid’s 18650 cells are I think a “historical” remnant from Tesla’s early days. There have been endless online discussions about the feasibility of updating them to newer formats. At least the chemistry can keep pace.

  28. Lambo2015 Says:

    As has been mentioned many times before the next new battery can change everything. No doubt lots of R&D is being spent on battery development. If it improves at the rate as much of our electronics has in recent years then things could be much different in ten years.

  29. Rey Says:

    #26 kit , The mod S is close to a 10 yr old design,and chassis wise it would take a lot of engineering to go from 18650 to 2170 for some short gains in efficiency and power density, this is from what a lot of other Tesla insiders have said,improving chemistry was much simpler from what I gathered, the 4680 cells could be a gamechanger, according to Sandy Munro, and what will be needed to get into the millions of vehicles aimed by Tesla, and will be competitive with Solid State batteries when those can be finally scaled up. Validating and then scaling Solid State batteries will take years,and as Elon has said , “just give us a working sample we can test”.
    As proof of the new improved chemistry? The range of the mod S has gone up , from 300+ miles to around 400 on the model.
    Each new Tesla Giga factory , starting from Berlin and Texas will have a Tesla dedicated 4680 battery production line, besides Panasonic, and possibly LG being suppliers as well. That is why the Kato facility was for, to do trial R&D and trial runs of 4680 cells,and as stated in Tesla earnings report they are close to production ready.

  30. Rey Says:

    #28 lambo, Giga Nevada has about40 g watt production of Panasonic cells,and is for both cars and Tesla Powerwalls and Megapacks. Fremont car production is probably @ 450,000 to 500,000 and statements from Tesla say 600,000 final when fully optimized, @ the peak when it was NUMMI, production was 423,000 ICE cars. Giga Shanghai has its China battery suppliers -CATL and LG and production there is @ 500,000 cars
    Ford and GMs partnerships with SKInnovation and LG are around 40GW – 60Gw so if math is right BEVs from both companies will be around 500,000- Trucks and SUVs need more batteries.Both Ford and GM have to add battery capacity if they are to make 1,000,000 BEVs / year by 2025 and beyond. This year Tesla will make around 800,000+ from two car factories.

  31. Lambo2015 Says:

    30 Again info I never asked for but thanks anyway.