AD #3235 – Tesla Facing Battery Shortage?; EV Startups See Big Drops; Ford Warns Dealers About Upcharging for Lightning

January 10th, 2022 at 11:46am

Audio-only version:
Listen to “AD #3235 – Tesla Facing Battery Shortage? EV Startups See Big Drops; Ford Warns Dealers About Upcharging for Lightning” on Spreaker.

Follow us on social media:

Instagram Twitter Facebook

Runtime: 7:54

0:07 Tesla Delays Due to Battery Shortage?
0:55 EV Startups See Big Drops
1:37 Ford Hires Audi’s Top Sales Exec.
2:46 GM Recognizes Cali’s Standard-Setting Authority
3:23 Tesla Raises FSD Price
3:50 Luxury Brands Have Good Sales Year
4:41 Ford Warns Dealers About Upcharging
6:03 Stellantis Vans Going All-Electric in Europe
6:38 Audi Enters Range-Extender Into Dakar Rally

Visit our sponsors to thank them for their support of Autoline Daily: Bridgestone, Intrepid Control Systems and Schaeffler.

»Subscribe to Podcast |

5661 rss-logo-png-image-68050 stitcher-icon youtube-logo-icon-65475

Thanks to our partner for embedding Autoline Daily on its website: WardsAuto.com

39 Comments to “AD #3235 – Tesla Facing Battery Shortage?; EV Startups See Big Drops; Ford Warns Dealers About Upcharging for Lightning”

  1. Norm T Says:

    Is Tesla really luxury?

  2. Norm T Says:

    Is Tesla really luxury?

  3. George Ricci Says:

    1. Insurance companies consider Tesla vehicles, luxury vehicles and charge accordingly.

  4. Lew Says:

    RE:Upcharging
    A Chevy dealer near me sent a note stating they are not charging more than the MSRP on any vehicle they sell.The lot has about 60% fewer cars on it.
    They also sent me a GM discount voucher for $500 on the Silverado and several other cars.
    SO what gives?

  5. Dave Says:

    Incredible demand for battery materials Lithium common but how are all the mines going to be what happens if there are too many even iron has to be battery grade then phosphate of course Morrocco has plenty but it has to get into production. The Province of Quebec has promised all three. Then there is nickel a lot harder and rarer to find. Batteries will be a bottle neck but will solve in time with bright minds working on it.

  6. Buzzerd Says:

    RE – up charging. I don’t consider vehicles a necessity like food or water or a generator after a storm say so I don’t see why they shouldn’t be able to. I think it’s very bad business plan but sure, go ahead.
    Thanks for the Dakar update Sean. I’ve been following the race through the Red Bull app, they post daily video recaps of the stages and it’s free and also the only coverage I have access to. I was wondering how the Audi was able to last the whole stage. Like you said I think they’ve done quite well so far as that’s a very tough race on equipment… and riders/drivers.

  7. Lambo2015 Says:

    “EV STARTUPS SEE BIG DROPS”. Not saying the bubble has burst but I think reality is setting in. EVs are new and exciting, and those that have lots of expendable cash will and have bought them. So they have seen who the early adopters are. The next year or so will really start to paint a truer picture of the true EV demand. I think they will discover the general public is going to struggle with these 50-70K price tags for start up vehicles that could go belly up before the thing is off warranty.
    So for now Id say, its was a well needed adjustment in stock price but the next few months are going to be brutal for start-ups especially if batteries become a constraint just as chips are resolved. Fixing the chip shortage will allow ICE to get back to normal.
    Just my 2cents.

  8. GM Veteran Says:

    Don’t forget that the S in MSRP stands for Suggested. Dealers are free to charge what they want for vehicles. No one complains when they get a fantastic deal on a slow-selling model. Supply and Demand are at the very core of our free market economy. As always, consumers are free to shop other dealers and other brands.

  9. wmb Says:

    #1&2.) While Tesla vehicles can be expensive to the average consumer, they are not luxury vehicles. They are premium at best and the price is reflective of the fact that the t3ch they use is expensive. That is why the cost of the Lucid Air is so much higher then the Tesla Model S, for it is an actual luxury vehicle. When you look at the price of the Mercedes EQS, they are more in line with that of the Air, then the Model S.

    The price of Tesla’s FSD is crazy, IMHO. Even if it was fully , level 5 autonomous driving, in can’t see paying that much for my vehicle to drive itself! The only time I would think that most people would use it, would during long trips on when going to an unfamiliar locations or perhaps if one works from their vehicle. Yet, $12K just for the software? How does the subscription service work? I take it that it’s added to the price of the vehicle and is included in your monthly payment. Once the vehicle is paid off, is the FSD now just apart of the vehicle, or do you continue to pay for it like an OnStar subscription? If the pay the full $12K up front, do you just get it for a set number of years and then it becomes a subscription service? I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around that one!

    This dealer mark-up craziness is ridicules. I have had bad experiences with dealerships, but most, far and away, have been good. The dealer is the individual that purchases the vehicle from the OEM and they can turn around and sell it for whatever they want. Understand and I’m cool with that. Yet, if they are advertising a vehicle for a set amount, then they SHOULD BE REQUIRED to sell that vehicle for that amount! You don’t go to the grocery store to purchase a box of cereal, where the label and the advertisement in the sale circular say one thing. But, hen you go and pay at the register, that cashier is demanding more! Doing so just because they feel they can and you have no choice but to pay! I know vehicle purchases are a long more complicated (There are different trims, special offers, options, dealer installed items, etc.), so one vehicle, while it may look the same, can be very different from another. But, dealers that greedily demand an up is only adding more wood to the fire of direct sell to consumers for OEMs and they have no one to blame but themselves!

  10. GM Veteran Says:

    What? Tesla has missed a couple of deadlines?

    Elon said when they built the gigafactory (you know, the ACTUAL gigafactory that builds batteries in Nevada), that they would have ample supply of batteries and may even sell batteries to other OEMs. As they needed more, they would simply build more gigafactories. While they now have more battery plants under construction, it seems that Tesla forgot to match the pace of their battery production with the pace of their auto production.

    Also, on the CyberTruck and Semi, they have stated several times that they won’t build those until they can get suitable quantities of their new 4680 battery cell design into production. Panasonic says production of those larger cells will start in March. If you believe Tesla, then this is the real reason that these two vehicles are late to market.

  11. Lambo2015 Says:

    Up-Charging only works if people are willing to pay over MSRP. The crazy thing is banks will finance this nonsense. Yet when buying a home and it appraises for X amount anything over that you have to have the cash. But most paying over probably have the cash. If not I wonder if you have to carry gap coverage?

    As for if dealers should be allowed? Sure its a free market, but personally I would walk away and probably avoid that dealership in the future even when things are back to normal.

  12. Roger Blose Says:

    No way do I want to pay local sales tax on the dealer’s ADM. And your auto insurance will not cover you for the higher paid price if you wreck.

  13. Rey Says:

    Dealers and legacy Auto Co.s will have to reform, the Chinese auto co.s will be here soon and according to most in the know like Michael Dunne they will go direct sales, BYD is already doing this in Australia, they have contracted some shops to do the servicing, what you see advertised is what you pay at the end of transaction, GOODBYE STEALERSHIPS your days are numbered .Maybe it is going to take an act of Congres to fix that mess, but knowing the politics of that who is in who’s pocket.

  14. Lambo2015 Says:

    10 I’m just gonna call BS on the batteries being the hold up of the Cybertruck. Watch this video of the plant status from just 3 weeks ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0bOqDt02Qs
    If you getting ready to build vehicles you need equipment on the floor and building pre-production builds (for testing) months before SOP. By this video I’d say they’ll be lucky to make a production truck by second quarter.

  15. ArtG Says:

    3. According to this, Tesla is the most expensive luxury car to insure in the U.S.: https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2021/12/tesla-model-3-most-expensive-vehicle-in-u-s-to-insure/

  16. GM Veteran Says:

    Yeah, I don’t see Congress legislating away our free market economy.

    Let’s not forget the price increases Tesla has instituted on their vehicles, and on FSD as reported here today. A $2,000 increase for what? For additional profit. I fail to see the difference, except that you can’t shop for a better deal at another dealer. All Teslas will carry this higher price.

    As with any other item, a little shopping can save you a lot. A local Jeep dealer is advertising all of his vehicles from $1,500 to $4,000 below MSRP, depending on the model, equipment and trim level.

    Stop whining, start shopping!

  17. John McElroy Says:

    #12. Amen, Roger. These are excellent points. Thanks for posting.

  18. Lambo2015 Says:

    14 Actually here is a link to an even more recent update to the Texas Giga factory dated Jan 7th 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUCLNR3D1g

  19. ChuckGrenci Says:

    Perhaps the auto makers should redefine what M.S.R.P. stands for, to maximum suggested retail price. If a dealer wants to claim an increase in price of a vehicle they would have to petition the auto maker to represent a higher price for their product. The dealers do represent auto makers and are indirectly tarnishing both their dealership and the brand.

  20. Kit Gerhart Says:

    I paid MSRP for my Corvette, plus sales tax, plus the ~$200 it actually cost the dealer to register the car in Florida. That’s it. I’m sure some Chevy dealers sell C8s for far over MSRP, and some would have a bogus ~$1000 add on “doc fee” like all Toyota dealers seem to have, but not the Indiana Chevy dealer where I bought my Corvette.

    Speaking of Toyota, I’m considering a Sienna or Highlander hybrid, since I no longer really want to use my ’89 van for longer trips, but while I like Toyota products, the company, and the dealers p!$$ me off. You can’t order a vehicle to get the color and equipment you want, and all of the dealers I’ve checked have over $1000 in bogus add ons. There must be collusion regarding the add ons. Also, if you can order a Chevy from Bowling Green, a MINI form Oxford, and a Porsche from Stuttgart, why can’t you order a Toyota from Princeton, Indiana or Georgetown, Kentucky?

  21. Kit Gerhart Says:

    15 I was surprised that my 2022 Corvette doesn’t cost much more insure than my 2018 Camry. I guess the old people like myself who buy Corvettes don’t crash much. I’m sure a C8 would not be cheap to repair, and it could cause considerable damage to other people or property if it crashed into them at 140 mph.

  22. Joe G Says:

    I work for a dealer and I am constantly shocked at the customers paying ADM on even ‘regular’ vehicles. I am of a mind that for every one customer you sell at ADM you are possibly loosing a few more long term. I think John agrees with this. For us, if a vehicle sits on the lot for a period of time the ADM disappears.
    What I really have a big problem with is some dealers trying to charge ADM for factory orders (especially Broncos) when they come in. The customer was expecting to pay sticker. They trusted the dealer honoring the price on the order sheet, but the greedy dealer wants ADM, after the customer waited over a year. We ONLY charge MSRP for factory orders with no games.

  23. Merv Peters Says:

    just finishing the dakar rally one earns bragging rights

  24. Kit Gerhart Says:

    1,2,3,9 etc.,

    It seems that the term “luxury” is used very loosely, in reference to cars. A Camry is more luxurious than a Model 3 in ride quality and interior décor, but people call the Tesla a “luxury car” because it is pricey compared to a Camry. Maybe being fast equals luxury, but I don’t consider my Corvette a luxury car, even though it is fast. To me, a luxury car is an S-Class, A8, LS, etc.

  25. Rey Says:

    #10 lambo According to US President Joe Beden GM is leading in electric cars!and CEO Mary Barra thinks so too, With 26 BEVs sold in the last qtr I guess both are Leaders in lying to the public.

  26. Rey Says:

    Correction : meant #10 GM vet

  27. Rey Says:

    #16 Tesla does increase the prices and according to their cost and it applies across the board regardless of the ability of the customers bargain acumen or number or volume , just like in the HERTZ order,THEY GOT NO DISCOUNT, now why won’t Ford sell for the same price to ordinary folks its base $39,000+ 150 Lightning but only to fleets?

  28. Kit Gerhart Says:

    27 The $40K electric F-150 will be like the $30K Model 3. It will exist only a few days, if at all.

  29. wmb Says:

    #24.) Yes, I agree that the word luxury is applied loosely! To your point, true luxury, in a broad since, would be that which comes from the German Three, Jaguar, Land Rover Ranger Rover, etc. With Aston Mrtin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, being above them! Tesla never described itself as a luxury brand. As one honestly examines the brands quality control issues, these are not features that most true luxury brands would tolerate, let alone allow to continue to go on for years. Let us be clear, this is not to say that Tesla’s are not excellent vehicles for what they are! They are still, after more then a decade, the tip of the spear when it ccomes to BEVs! They are just not luxury cars. Premium vehicles, without a doubt. Lucid claims to be, in fact, a luxury brand and they should be held to the same standard as the German Three, the Asian Three and the luxury brands of the Big Three, power plant aside! Can you imagine a brand new Mercedes with mix match paint, weather stripping coming loose or leaks around the doors or hatch? Maybe in a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Hyundai or some our mass market brand from the 70s or 80s. Yet, its not uncommon to hear reports of that about Tesla’s. Tesla builds some of the most efficient, long range BEVs around the world. Currently, the industry has yet to catch up with their hard and software, as well as their innovative casting solutions for their vehicles. Yet, most of this is behind the scenes, away from those things that their customers interact with! And it’s the few fails of the things that they do interact with, are the things that (as mentioned earlier) one would never except from a true luxury brand. Is Tesla a premium brand? Yes and worth every penny! A luxury brand? Not some much.

  30. wmb Says:

    …and let me add, if you had those issues with your new Mercedes (as mentioned above), how quickly would they have some to address your concerns and make sure you were completely satisfied? With most true luxury brands, service after the sell is just as important as the purchase itself! With Tesla, other then a few stores in a handful of places, your customer service is only as great as the locations that Tesla has contracted out to service their vehicles. I’m not saying they are bad, but they certainly are not the face of Tesla!

  31. Bob Wilson Says:

    Tesla always planned to sell EV vehicles and realized battery suppliers could be unreliable. So the past two years, Tesla has been building and making deals for their batteries. As for the non-Tesla EV makers, they have no clue and found batteries are even scarcer than the ‘semiconductors’ they blame for running out.

    As for Full Self Driving, I’m a beta tester and 10.8.1 is measurably better than the previous downloaded a month ago. Since I paid $6,000 in October 2019, I’m in the ‘cat bird seat.’

  32. Kit Gerhart Says:

    Full self driving? How can they get by with that? If I can’t get in the car and have it drive me somewhere while I sleep, or drink Scotch while watching a movie, it is not full self driving. Even Carter’s Little Liver Pills got shut down for misleading advertising.

  33. Sean Wagner Says:

    32 I concur. “Aspirational Autonomy” might be a better moniker for Tesla’s FSD option.

    Offering it only as a service would be far more prudent from the corporate perspective that Elon Musk often smartly eschews.

    While the take rate has plummeted to something around 10% in North America, it does not absolve both the legal and financial departments from their fiduciary duties.

  34. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    I see no value in the TESLA FSD. You pay for it and it is not transferrable to the next owner so it does not change the resale value of your car. Then you still have to pay attention and be ready to take over at a moments notice so effectively you still have to “drive” the car…you just don’t operate the pedals or steering wheel but you have to make sure the decisions the car is making for you are correct and take over when it is not. In the end though, you simply lit $12,000 on fire to accomplish what people around the globe do for free every single day.

    If it was transferrable and added value to your car, then I could see some value in it from a resale perspective. It is not so there just isn’t a point to it. Maybe if I was a tech geek or someone that valued paying attention to a phone rather than driving it could have some personal value. It doesn’t have any actual value though.

  35. Lambo2015 Says:

    31 Bob I failed to understand your point. You say Tesla has planned and made deals for its batteries for the past two years while non-Tesla manufacturers have no clue. Yet I haven’t heard of any other manufacturer postponing a vehicle launch over batteries other than Tesla. They say they are not making the Cybertruck because of lack of batteries.
    So either that’s a lie, or they really are not good at all when planning for battery capacity.

  36. Lambo2015 Says:

    34 Totally agree with you. FSD is just a lawsuit waiting to happen. The more capable it becomes the more customers will rely on it. We all know human nature enough that as they get comfortable with it the less attention will be paid to what’s going on. They’ll look at the phone for longer periods then start watching short videos then movies and soon not paying attention at all. Then crash and wonder why and blame Tesla. (if they survive).

    $12k to an option that isn’t transferable. I wonder how Tesla is notified of ownership changes? Cause I certainly wouldn’t tell em voluntarily. Besides those second owners are gonna need that 12k for their next battery.

  37. MERKUR DRIVER Says:

    36) I would hope that TESLA is good at planning for battery capacity. Unlike other OEMs, TESLA has a singular focus on the tech around EVs. If they can’t plan for their single product, then that is pretty bad.

  38. Lambo2015 Says:

    37 Yeah I would think so. But that brings up another issue with EVs is how quickly the battery chemistry is changing which coul dmake many of these early EVs disposable vehicles after the battery no longer works.

  39. Sean Wagner Says:

    I don’t think there’s any automotive company in the world driving future battery production as hard as Tesla, though the 800lb gorilla of cells is CATL.

    Tesla is very, very far out front in that respect, working in full problem-solving mode for the sake of creating real things of real value.

Leave a Comment